Code Geass Favourite Characters Poll

[Airi]

Originally Posted by kyrie_eleison

4th: Dalton. Dalton needs more love. Although not as pretty as Guilford, he was unwaveringly loyal to Cornelia and Euphemia, kind [he raised the knights, after all, as his sons] and self-sacrificing. He didn't deserve that ending.

3rd: Ougi. Pretty much the same reasons as Dalton, except with the added factor that, despite being in the same house as a confused, gorgeous lady, he didn't try anything funny.

2nd: C.C. Does this even need explaining? She's hot, cute, quirky, blunt, looks great in a plugsuit, can pilot a mecha while Lelouch is emo-ing in the backseat and has supernatural powers. What's not to like?

1st: SUZAKU. I adore Suzaku. To death.
Why? How could i possibly love that yellow-bellied, scum-sucking hypocrite Kira/Syaoran-rip-off whose logic doesn't make sense and who does nothing in the series but serve as a nuisance to Lulu's grand megalomaniacal schemes?

Spoiler for 4 reasons, written in long, circular sentences:

Well, first of all, because his logic does make sense.
He wants to serve peace to the country, and he's doing it the best way he knows how which is infiltrating the enemy and rising up to an advantageous position where he'll be able to influence more effects without having to kill anyone.
Just because he's a soldier doesn't make him a hypocrite -- factually, he doesn't kill anyone he doesn't have to, really. Case in point, he in fact saved those innocent people in episode 2. Just because he killed his father doesn't make him a hypocrite either -- that was spur of the moment, and done for the same reason that Lulu wants to kill his father: because the man was acting in the name of selfishness over the welfare of the nation.

Secondly, Suzaku's character is deep. He's usually perceived as emo and angsty, but this really isn't the case. Suzaku hides a lot of trauma and inhibitions underneath a mask of nobility. He continually tries to work himself into what he believes is a respectable and morally upright character, but at the same time he can never wash away the sins of his past. Thus, he perpetually feels inadequate but keeps trying to become better.
[Yes, this does put him onto a certain level of angst, but this doesn't transcend him into the typical image of 'angsty' which is broody broody, i will never be accepted into the world kind of acting. No, in fact he pretty much goes through his life normally [unless his trauma is activated] until the entire Euphie thing].

Thirdly, because EVERYONE dislikes him. Lelouch is mad at him because he betrayed his vision. Euphie's gone. Kallen and the rest of the Knights see him as their greatest opposition. The people at his school bully him. The nobles look down on him. Hell, even Arthur, the cat, scratches him every chance he gets. THE BOY NEEDS LOVE.

Lastly, because him and Lelouch make an interesting pair. Who the hero or the anti-hero is is entirely debatable, and he contrasts Lulu's ambitiousness and manipulation with his own hopefulness and idealism.

Don't get me wrong, I love Lelouch. But Lelouch's character is extremely, extremely selfish and unusually cruel -- Lelouch jeapordized the peace of the nation by accidentally hypnotizing Euphemia, killed his brother Clovis, continually kills or causes the death of a lot of soldiers on both ends of the fence, and tries to manipulate Suzaku into protecting Nunally as per his own visions of a 'perfect future'.
I love him ~ but i'm going to stand up, and admit [to the risk of being killed by the fans] that the boy is a bit off.

Great *_* that's exactly what I think!!!!!

[kyrie_eleison]

Unfortunately it seems to be that Lulu's method of breaking through the cycle of hate is by adding more to it. His method of changing the world involves a lot of sacrifice. Also he expects the world to reciprocate to his intentions, and perish if it doesn't.
Morally speaking, it's debatable whether or not this is the correct thing to do.

But, admittedly -- laughing while watching an empire crumble at your feet and then suddenly leaving the volatile rebels under your command to go save your sister, while remaining hope that your best friend will bend to your will of a vision of a better world, despite having killed his girlfriend -- is at least an indication of being a megalomaniac. True, most of it is human, but still, it's kinda crazy. x3

[KrimzonStriker]

I object, he's simply caught in unwavering circumstances. And c'mon, at least what he does is realistic, you can't change the world with pretty worlds alone, sometimes you have to go for the throat in order to accomplish anything. What you do when you've finally won is the question. As for leaving the rebels to go save your sister... please do not tell me you would abandon your only sister to go conquer the world, if ANYTHING it makes him more human....

[Airi]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

I object, he's simply caught in unwavering circumstances.

OMG....unwavering circumstances? are you John McCain's son?heh:

[KrimzonStriker]

Ha ha, I'm a moderate independent I'll have you know!! As I was saying, things happened beyond his control or intent... it's not to say he doesn't take responsibility for it though, and at least he strives to fight to end such sacrifices from ever being needed again, even if it destroys him

[zerron]

Originally Posted by kyrie_eleison

1st: SUZAKU. I adore Suzaku. To death.
Why? How could i possibly love that yellow-bellied, scum-sucking hypocrite Kira/Syaoran-rip-off whose logic doesn't make sense and who does nothing in the series but serve as a nuisance to Lulu's grand megalomaniacal schemes?


Don't get me wrong, I love Lelouch. But Lelouch's character is extremely, extremely selfish and unusually cruel -- Lelouch jeapordized the peace of the nation by accidentally hypnotizing Euphemia, killed his brother Clovis, continually kills or causes the death of a lot of soldiers on both ends of the fence, and tries to manipulate Suzaku into protecting Nunally as per his own visions of a 'perfect future'.
I love him ~ but i'm going to stand up, and admit [to the risk of being killed by the fans] that the boy is a bit off.

Are you also some kind of idealist who only knows to talk ??? Killed Clovis, many soldiers died, many people died ... what did you expect - that noone dies ? And those Britannians killed thousend times more people than Lelouch and I don't see that they were punished or that someone did something against it. Most of those who rule easily made orders to kill innocent people so someone should stop them. Killing someone like Clovis in a war isn't wrong thing to do at all and that someone doesn't deserve to be punished.

In reallity, there is no chance that someone like Suzaku could change the world. He wouldn't even become a knight. Also, he didn't even try to do something against orders to kill people, that idiot would even gave his life just because he was ordered to only to kill one man - I don't know who is worse : he or the person who gave that kind of order. Also, at the end he started to kill people just like everyone else (for revenge) so he is no better than the rest. Motive for his actions was peace and the desire to protect people which is so ridiculous considering his actions. The fact still remains that I think that he is only a stupid traitor who knows how to fight in a machine and nothing more.


Suzaku, grow up or die

[kyrie_eleison]

Changing the world with words alone is totally a matter of belief, isn't it?
And it can easily be argued that pretty much everyone there is caught in unwavering circumstances.

True, he does it out of a sense of duty and because of his personal beliefs, and I admire his ambition, cleverness, dedication and drive.

What i'm saying is crazy about Lelouch is that he seems to enjoy watching the destruction and carnage around him when it's to his advantage [see:maniacal laugh]. And then he seems to expect the world to cooperate while he does these things, getting agiatated when things don't go his way [i.e. Euphemia's new program thingy, Suzaku and Euphemia getting together].

I concede that yes, several of the reasons and motivations that drive him define his character as human. However, are humans not succeptible to madness, or acts of madness [depending, of course, on your definition of the word]?


[on the sister thing -- if I thought I was making the world a better place, i think i WOULD give her up for the greater good. But i don't think that's the same thing with Lulu's situation. He was wrong to have freaked out. I'm wrong because i'm confused. ]
[excuse me for enjoying this. I haven't debated in a while ]

[Airi]

Originally Posted by zerron

Are you also some kind of idealist who only knows to talk ??? Killed Clovis, many soldiers died, many people died ... what did you expect - that noone dies ? And those Britannians killed thousend times more people than Lelouch and I don't see that they were punished or that someone did something against it. Most of those who rule easily made orders to kill innocent people so someone should stop them. Killing someone like Clovis in a war isn't wrong thing to do at all and that someone doesn't deserve to be punished.

In reallity, there is no chance that someone like Suzaku could change the world. He wouldn't even become a knight. Also, he didn't even try to do something against orders to kill people, that idiot would even gave his life just because he was ordered to only to kill one man - I don't know who is worse : he or the person who gave that kind of order. Also, at the end he started to kill people just like everyone else (for revenge) so he is no better than the rest. Motive for his actions was peace and the desire to protect people which is so ridiculous considering his actions. The fact still remains that I think that he is only a stupid traitor who knows how to fight in a machine and nothing more.


Suzaku, grow up or die

he kills people because he lost euphi.....If Lelouch was in his place, he would do the same thing....they are both human: that's the problem!

[kyrie_eleison]

Are you also some kind of idealist who only knows to talk ??? Killed Clovis, many soldiers died, many people died ... what did you expect - that noone dies ? And those Britannians killed thousend times more people than Lelouch and I don't see that they were punished or that someone did something against it. Most of those who rule easily made orders to kill innocent people so someone should stop them. Killing someone like Clovis in a war isn't wrong thing to do at all and that someone doesn't deserve to be punished.

This of course brings up the question if a wrong rights another wrong. It depends whether of not you believe in change or not, and this again depends on how jaded you are or not.

As I said, Suzaku and Lelouch are on the opositte sides of the spectrum. It would be easy to argue that Lelouch's methods are justified because of their immediate effects, but it would also be easy to say that killing is wrong period, and that there could have been a less harsh method of dealing with things.

True, a sacrifice is necessary for peace to be brought about, but as I'd like to think, Lulu enjoyed it a bit too much. I still love him though.

On Suzaku ~ true, he conceded to darker methods in the end, but that was Lulu's fault indirectly. And i'm not saying he's still in the morally-debatable-right. In fact, I worry for him.

And in the end, is there anything wrong with being an idealist? Idealists make for a more peaceful way of doing so ~ and have the power to succeed, despite odds.

[kyrie_eleison]

he kills people because he lost euphi.....If Lelouch was in his place, he would do the same thing....they are both human: that's the problem!

I AGREE.

[KrimzonStriker]

Now that's absolute bollock's! You argue against Lelouch for his seemingly uncaring and insane pursuits, yet when he acts selflessly you go right about and criticize him for it!! And as for enjoying the destruction, I belive it's far from it! have you not witnessed the scenes of pain he's had to endure every time he realizes the pain he's caused to the people he cares for! His 'laughter' is merely a tool in which he uses to try and cover up his despair over what he has done, what he must continue to do...

[kyrie_eleison]

*quick argument. needs to leave*

I wasn't criticizing the face that he needed to save Nunally, just the fact that he had to leave the Knights in order to do so. It comes across to me as him putting his personal needs over that of the group which he himself started. Of course it's correct to care for his family, but he should have secured the people. What happened to the needs of the many then? But this is only my opinion.

As for the laughing being a cover up ~ i personally never really though about it that way. At the moment, I can't really think of a profound 'regret' scene except for the one after he killed Euphemia, but I admit this is a point worth looking up to.

[It would be ironic if he puts up an evil face to hide his pained goodness, and if Suzaku puts up a good face to repress his latent evilness he believes he has ]

[KrimzonStriker]

Wasn't that the intent of the animators all along, for Lelouch to be the dark hero and Suzaku to be the goody villain There were other scenes, like after he realized he caused Shirley's father to die, and after he erased her memory. Even after he killed Clovis, it made him sick to his stomach. In any case, we realize that yes, he is indeed selfish, he's never really detracted from this mindset before, the fact that he even started the rebellion was for his sister's sake, and you know what, that's okay... it's good to be selfish, especially when it's in a selfless way. Otherwise, you end up only throwing your life away, like with Suzaku.

[kyrie_eleison]

Oooh yeah, thinking back to it ~ Lelouch does allow himself to be taken with the pangs of battle but really deeply regrets it inside. I see that, and you're right about that then.

Although he IS still manipulative [that's the beauty of his character, although it scares me and throws me off a bit] and i wouldn't be surprised if that kind of pressure ends up breaking him [it did to Suzaku didn't it?]. Hopefully it doesn't though ~ observationally, though I love Mr. Kururugi, Lulu's stronger by Suzaku by far.

But again, hero and villain are redefinable terms. They're both heroes and villains and goody and dark in their own ways I think, especially with the resurfacing of their characters in season 2.

[KrimzonStriker]

So many things to look foward too, plus we get to expand the polls after the Season starts. Though I haven't seen him yet, I think my first new character vote will probably go to Lee

[zerron]

I know that Lelouch's methods are moraly questionable but at least he took the right path and I can't say the same for Suzaku. It seems that Suzaku wants peace under the rule of Britannian which is, in my opinion, wrong. He should be fighting for Japan's independence. He saw how much people are suffering, dying, where they live, how they are treated ... those things would never change, especially under the rule of Lelouch's father (we all know how he thinks about people). So, there is nothing wrong in destroying that emipre and killing that man. The one who makes that possible should be a hero.

[Gotank]

Totally agree with Zerron. Suzaku makes no attempt to actually live up to any of the things he said he would do. Essentially he and Zero have the same goals, but they're approaching it with different methods. Is that enough reason to obey the enemy and give his own life to kill the person who shares the same goals with him?

Obviously we've seen in the show that Suzaku's methods were NOT even remotely effective. All he did was make himself a pawn of the Britania empire against others fighting for his own causes. Nothing was changed. And don't compare Euphemia's proposal to that of having your own country back. It's like moving aboriginal Americans onto reserves.

Peace > War? Right, let's use that as an excuse. Let's say your country was invaded tomorrow, and there's only two options: either you strike back and prepare to suffer casualties or surrender peacefully, give up all rights of a soverign nation, and become lower class citizens to the enemies. Would you pick the latter of the options?

As Lelouch himself said, beyond Suzaku's murder of his father, he's also taken away the right of the Japanese people by not giving them the option to fight back anymore. It's one thing to believe in something, but it's a totally different one to enforce your own selfish philosophies onto someone else.

Oh ya, and regarding the whole good villain and evil hero thing. I think that's part of the reason why I hate Suzaku more than I hate almost all of the actual villains in any story. It's because the whole series portrays him as a hero with all these great ideals, but anyone who actually taken a second to think about the things he's said would become sceptical.

[BlackOni]

I like Lelouch becuase,
1. He is willing to do what it takes to get the job done.
2. he know the only way to change the britannian's policy is to overthough it.
3. He feel for the peole he kills wether on perpuse or by accident but continues to aspire for the greater good.
4. he know whats trully important to him, (and for the record, would you really condemn one of your loved ones to death even if you knew it would save so many more lives.)
5. he's just a evil genius with a heart of gold (jk)

I like Kallen becuase,
1. Her life is so simular to Lelouch's it's Scary (him mom died, he want revenge. Her brother died, she wants revenge. He want to make a better world for nunnaly. She wants to make a better world for her mom. They both lead double lifes. And now that kallens secret is out they'ra both hiding from britania.)
2. Her firy sprit and refusal to give up.
3. Her uter devotion to zero.
4. Her ability to throw away past friendship if they get in her way, (when she tried to assasinate suzaku,) and work for what she believes is the greater good.

I like C.C. Becuase,
1. She can be so childish yet so serios and condesending to others at the same time.
2. She's the only person who openly critisizes Lelouch.
3. she's live so many sad lifes and still managed to keep her sanity.
4. she trys to act devoid of feeling but fails every now and then.
5. she's just so mysterious an uniqe of a charater.

I really HATE Suzaku becuase,
1. He believes he's always right.
2. He robed Japan of its right to choose its own path when he killed his father.
3. He further robs Japan of the right to fight back when he kills terrorists/fights the black knights.
4. He hates killing but it's in his job descrition.
5. He's deluted into thinking everyone around him believes his views.
6. He believes he can turn kallen, who was a terrorist long before zero ever came around.
7. When he loses someone he loves all he thinks about is revenge, throwing out all his previous ideals and beliefs.
8. He believes he can change the britannian goverments point of view by jioning as a low class soilder, when his best friend who's a britannian prince got kickout of his country for asking "why?", what does he siriously expect them to do when he says 'sorry but could you change your 2000 or so year old policy becuase it dosent fit with my own beliefs'.

And that's just for starters.

Ps. I really hope Suzaku dies soon.

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by BlackOni

I like Lelouch becuase,
1. He is willing to do what it takes to get the job done.
2. he know the only way to change the britannian's policy is to overthough it.
3. He feel for the peole he kills wether on perpuse or by accident but continues to aspire for the greater good.
4. he know whats trully important to him, (and for the record, would you really condemn one of your loved ones to death even if you knew it would save so many more lives.)
5. he's just a evil genius with a heart of gold (jk)

I like Kallen becuase,
1. Her life is so simular to Lelouch's it's Scary (him mom died, he want revenge. Her brother died, she wants revenge. He want to make a better world for nunnaly. She wants to make a better world for her mom. They both lead double lifes. And now that kallens secret is out they'ra both hiding from britania.)
2. Her firy sprit and refusal to give up.
3. Her uter devotion to zero.
4. Her ability to throw away past friendship if they get in her way, (when she tried to assasinate suzaku,) and work for what she believes is the greater good.

I like C.C. Becuase,
1. She can be so childish yet so serios and condesending to others at the same time.
2. She's the only person who openly critisizes Lelouch.
3. she's live so many sad lifes and still managed to keep her sanity.
4. she trys to act devoid of feeling but fails every now and then.
5. she's just so mysterious an uniqe of a charater.

I really HATE Suzaku becuase,
1. He believes he's always right.
2. He robed Japan of its right to choose its own path when he killed his father.
3. He further robs Japan of the right to fight back when he kills terrorists/fights the black knights.
4. He hates killing but it's in his job descrition.
5. He's deluted into thinking everyone around him believes his views.
6. He believes he can turn kallen, who was a terrorist long before zero ever came around.
7. When he loses someone he loves all he thinks about is revenge, throwing out all his previous ideals and beliefs.
8. He believes he can change the britannian goverments point of view by jioning as a low class soilder, when his best friend who's a britannian prince got kickout of his country for asking "why?", what does he siriously expect them to do when he says 'sorry but could you change your 2000 or so year old policy becuase it dosent fit with my own beliefs'.

And that's just for starters.

Ps. I really hope Suzaku dies soon.

I completly agree with you on the Suzaku part.

Also no matter what argument is used the fact that Suzaku is a Hypocrite is unarguable. Tanaguchi himself who is the Director, AND the original story creator of Code Geass said that Suzaku was a Hypocrite.

Suzaku is supposed to be a person that appears good, and selfless, but is actually very selfish, and Lelouch is supposed to be a person that seems selfish, and evil, but is good, and somewhat selfless.

When Code Geass was first created Tanaguchi said he wanted Fukuyama who usually voices hero characters to play Lelouch, and Sakurai who usually voices villans characters to play Suzaku because he wanted Lelouch to sound like a good person who's forcing himself to be evil, and he wanted Suzaku to sound like an evil person who is pretending to be good.

A good analogy for Lelouch, and Suzaku's personalities is this(not mine, but I don't know who made the originally analogy, thanks, and credit to whoever made it):

If there were two people in the middle of the highway one badly injured, and one in fatal condition, Lelouch would Judge his strength the weight of the person, the distance to the hospital, and the time, take the injured person, and save him. The injured person would be fine, and live, but the person in fatal condition would die(i.e The ends justify the means, a person may have died because of his actions, but he was able to save atleast one of them). If Suzaku found the people he would take both of them despite the fact that he probably wouldn't be able to save them, and they would both die, and he would justify their death to himself so he can't really be blamed for it(i.e the means justify the ends, they may have both died, but I tried my best to save them both)

[Dann of Thursday]

I thought that whole analogy was by someone from the staff. I could be wrong though since I can't quite remember. Still it displays both of them as they really are in a realistic environment.