Tokyo Ravens [Light Novel]

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by NectorPrime

Ah fairenough is there a reason douman was following haratora ? Cause I haven't got a clue why he would follow him.

Both Jin and Harutora are rebels, who have been blacklisted by the Agency.
They can cooperate.

[NectorPrime]

True that could be one reason I guess to cooperate but there's got to be more to why douman went to all the trouble to find harutora ? But they would be a sick team

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Both Jin and Harutora are rebels, who have been blacklisted by the Agency.
They can cooperate.

This not to mention there are tons of people chasing Harutora for one reason or another. He's very popular guy right now all kinds of ways.

Anyway here is one of the things that caught my eye while reading Ch 2 of Vol 6:

Originally Posted by Volume 6 Chapter 2

"No. I don't know whether you know the person...... Saotome Ryou."

"Saotome? I haven't heard that name. What division?"

"......The Imperial Household Agency."

Miyachi's expression changed again. A dim light shone from the eyes that looked at Kogure and slowly sharpened.

"The Lingering Spirit Division...... Could that person have not ended up the same way?"

"Yes. That person left early on. So there should be no relation with the Twin-Horned Syndicate."

"A researcher?"

"Yes. Specializing in Tsuchimikado Yakou."

Awhile back in this thread we were discussing what might have been the betrayal that caused a rift between Jin, Zen and Suzu. I think Kagato3 speculated that it could have been related to spiritual terrorism 2 years prior to story. Well we can cross that of the list going by Zen's confirmation.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Awhile back in this thread we were discussing what might have been the betrayal that caused a rift between Jin, Zen and Suzu. I think Kagato3 speculated that it could have been related to spiritual terrorism 2 years prior to story. Well we can cross that of the list going by Zen's confirmation.

I figured it wasn't that from the start, from the way Zenjiro said it, it seemed personal, something she did to the two of them.

Judging from what Zenjiro said to Jin about the consequences of forbidden magic, she probably used the two of them.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I figured it wasn't that from the start, from the way Zenjiro said it, it seemed personal, something she did to the two of them.

Judging from what Zenjiro said to Jin about the consequences of forbidden magic, she probably used the two of them.

Yeah she cryptically admits to have done something taboo:

Spoiler for Vol 6 Ch 2:

"Really...... Why are you so annoying right from the morning...... I would probably be a lot more relaxed if I could face myself like Senpai."

"Like me?"

"To tell the truth, I admire you a bit."

"You should stop now."

"Why?"

"You'll become a criminal."

"Ah, so someone like you has self-awareness too."

"Calling me by 'someone like you' is too rude."

"No, I think Senpai was the rudest in the conversation just now."

On another note, surprisingly Suzu seemed to already know about Touji's Oni too.

Spoiler for vol 6 ch 2:

The senpai who was still looking at Touji:

"......Even more powerful than I imagined, and there aren't any problems for now."

Muttered quietly. Touji, whose ears caught those words, looked towards the senpai.

After meeting the senpai's gaze for a moment, "......Eh?" an uneasy smile slid across his mouth.

"What's that supposed to mean?"

I'm guess she had already investigated everyone around Harutora at this point.

[Iron Maw]

Vol 11 Week 1 sales
*9.　16,852　*33,448　Tokyo Ravens Vol.11
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1162801

Originally Posted by First Week Comparison

23,123 Tokyo Ravens Vol.10 Begins/Temple (sale data Oct 19-27) start of the anime.
33,448 Tokyo Ravens Vol.11 change:unchange (sale data: April 19-27) end of the anime.

So it basically doubled.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

I tried to hold out man, but my limit finally broke. Even now after having read though ch 2, I'm already irritated since characters are talking about stuff that happened in the untranslated portions of chapter 1.

At this point, I'm just going to read through this as slowly as possible, in hopes that first chapter might be finished by this weekend.



Alright, I'll list what I could make out. Keep in mind there isn't a whole lot of context behind these due to the lack of moon knowledge and some of it might be outright wrong. So bare with me a bit.

Spoiler for Vol 11 spoilers:

Natsume
-I think everything regarding her in this volume has mostly been covered by the summary posted earlier, with only a few bits left, not all which I could make out but:
-She has a new Gohou/Defense shikigami who's powers are based around lightning named Hekireki (lit: Thunderclap in English) and I think it might been the same one that belonged to Chizuru. I don't if it's a servant or manmade type.
-Yuuko, Harutora's biological mother died really young (in her mid 20's or so) a couple days after giving birth due to a disease. While she and Natsume hadn't know either other that long, they had become quite close. Natsume affectionately referred to her as grandma.

Touji
-As I said a couple pages back, is missing as far as his friends know.
-He is training his Ogre powers with Kagami as mentioned before.
-Even though Touji looks to be working for the Agency, he's actually serving as Amami's eyes and ears within the organization, in other-words: he's a spy. Touji is also apparently living some secret place with Amami, I think?
-Surprisingly the woman talking to him Used Can mentioned awhile back isn't human, but in fact a manmade shikigami (like Hokuto) and Touji is her master. Apparently Miyo made for it him as a sort of helper/caretaker for him and Amami. Her name is based on a flower and she wears a kimono.

Suzuka
-She's returned to the Agency as mentioned before, but is officially under house arrest which makes sense as she did essentially betray them.
-Suzuka is actually secretly investigating the Souma Clan and their true aims, hence her contact with Twin Horn Syndicate.
-I think it's also confirmed that Taira no Masakado is indeed related to Souma family somehow, most likely his decedents making him much like Abe no Seimei is to the Tsuchimikados. As verisonf noted eons ago the general gist is that, he was some sort of anti-establishment figure who historically attempted to overthrow the imperial government at that time and crown himself emperor. He was born the same era as Abe no Seimei and Douman.
-There also something about Yakou talked about here, but I can't make out/understand.
-Apparently Takiko and co are getting ready to prepare for something big in the next volume or so.

Kyouko
-is still attending Onmyo Academy and is spending most of her time honing her star reading with Miyo.
-She and father apparently have a rift of sorts has opened between them. Genji has also become much more strict with her and is closely monitoring her actions. So Kyouko can't move openly any more. I don't what the relationship with Miyo and Genji is like at the moment, but it's probably not much better.
-Miyo like Suzuka is also under house arrest.

Temna
-Like Kyouko is going to the Onmyo Academy.
-He seems to have gotten a lot of praise from the JP readers and has matured quite a bit. Vol 9 did make him grow balls so to speak.
-I think it's also implied from what I read that he had something to do with making sure Natsume's letters have gotten to everyone.
-Still the most normal in guy in the group, but it's hinted at that he's hiding something.

Jin and D
-As I said before, he's returned to Tokyo, but got into a skirmish with Zen and Hayato. Seems to have plans of his own to deal with Agency's corruption.
-He's become quite infamous in the underground and to the point other Onmyoji and the Agency are calling him by a new nickname.
-Looks like Harutora blowing up the Seihuku Temple in vol 10 caused huge shockwaves through out the magic community and Douman who was trailing him at time couldn't make contact for info.
-Douman has a special humanoid shikigami (named Goze?) he's using apparently to aid Jin and keeping abreast of the goings and doings of Agency when he's not around himself.

Other stuff
-Another new DG has been introduce named Shunsuke Shigeoka and is a Independent Exorcist/Officer.

So yeah, this what I could find and understand so far. Anything else including what I don't will have to be elaborated by LN readers.

Hope that helps!

thanks for the spoilers

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Vol 11 Week 1 sales
*9.　16,852　*33,448　Tokyo Ravens Vol.11
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1162801


So it basically doubled.

Patiently waiting for season 2 in 3 years time now

[Junkko]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Vol 11 Week 1 sales
*9.　16,852　*33,448　Tokyo Ravens Vol.11
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1162801


So it basically doubled.

The Anime did something good after all. I am a happy person right now.

All that's left for me now is to catch up with the english light novel translation, tho I only need to read one more chapter before I'm having an encounter with the mercifull (2/4 parts done) one

[Kleeyook]

It seems like Tokyo Ravens LN has become thicker and thicker since vol. 6. LN vol. 7 ch. 2 is very long it feels like reading half a volume of ordinary LN.

There's no scene of Yasuzumi reading the stars and said "The stars have crossed." when HaruNatsu met Takiko in the LN like in the anime!

And Harutora suspected Takiko for being Hokuto's controller since their persinality overlaps, I can see why they used the same VA in the anime.

[Zilch_Saber]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

It seems like Tokyo Ravens LN has become thicker and thicker since vol. 6. LN vol. 7 ch. 2 is very long it feels like reading half a volume of ordinary LN.

There's no scene of Yasuzumi reading the stars and said "The stars have crossed." when HaruNatsu met Takiko in the LN like in the anime!

And Harutora suspected Takiko for being Hokuto's controller since their persinality overlaps, I can see why they used the same VA in the anime.

Yeah, that is what also first comes to my mind.

So the anime make the two have the same VA is because of what Harutora said in the light novel??

Pretty convenient...


And...woah! As expected, the sales really boost up like that. Now, the chances of season 2 is becoming greater and greater. Hope this continues. For now, we just gonna stick on the Light Novel to past time and understand everything.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

And Harutora suspected Takiko for being Hokuto's controller since their persinality overlaps, I can see why they used the same VA in the anime.

Ho? So the anime went as far to catch on to a little detail like that? I remember anime only watchers speculating that Takiko and Hokuto were related because of her VA and personally at first too.

[Kleeyook]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Ho? So the anime went as far to catch on to a little detail like that? I remember anime only watchers speculating that Takiko and Hokuto were related because of her VA and personally at first too.

I don't think that's the only reason though.

It also reduced the cost of hiring another VA for both roles. Killing two birds with one stone.

It's painfully obvious that Natsume is Hokuto from vol. 5. The LN readers and the anime viewers should already know about this fact, it's just that the anime lacks Harutora's monologue and thought about how Takiko and Hokuto overlaps each other.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

It's painfully obvious that Natsume is Hokuto from vol. 5.

It's painfully obvious Natsume is Hokuto since the final chapter of volume 1. Since that point onwards, the story never really tries to hide the fact Hokuto and Natsume are the same person from the reader.
If anything, the whole "confusion" is one of the many things that are in the story just to make Harutora look dumb.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

I don't think that's the only reason though.

It also reduced the cost of hiring another VA for both roles. Killing two birds with one stone.

It's painfully obvious that Natsume is Hokuto from vol. 5. The LN readers and the anime viewers should already know about this fact, it's just that the anime lacks Harutora's monologue and thought about how Takiko and Hokuto overlaps each other.

Yeah, I agree there, but it stop didn't some people from thinking otherwise. I guess it's not a very common practice and usually when something like that is done there is some plot specific reason for it.

Originally Posted by Used Can

It's painfully obvious Natsume is Hokuto since the final chapter of volume 1. Since that point onwards, the story never really tries to hide the fact Hokuto and Natsume are the same person from the reader.
If anything, the whole "confusion" is one of the many things that are in the story just to make Harutora look dumb.

Actually after reading the novels it's even more clearer why Harutora or most people wouldn't have figured out easily. Ironically it because he knows Natsume by the one side she ever shows in public even to him far too well. If Shikigami connection wasn't ever mention it wouldn't cross anyone minds because thanks to her upbringing she Natsume learned have play two very opposite roles well. Someone might bring up the ribbon it's rather flimsy evidence considering it can be gotten anywhere.

The 2nd chapter in Volume 6 put the Harutora's reasoning here in very good manner.

Spoiler for Vol 6 Ch 2:

Harutora didn't attribute all the problems to himself.

But, one of the reasons Harutora and the others weren't getting along right now undoubtedly came from himself. Because Harutora suspected that Natsume might be Hokuto's practitioner.

...Really...... What exactly is going on?

Hokuto was a simple shikigami controlled directly by the practitioner. The practitioner's words and feelings would become Hokuto's unaltered words and feelings.

Even if there were some differences and if the practitioner was acting, Hokuto could essentially be counted as a body double of the practitioner. No, she wasn't just a body double, she was basically the practitioner after changing clothes. The 'person inside the clothes' was the same.

So Harutora had never even dreamed that 'that' Hokuto's practitioner could be 'that' Natsume.

...After all, Natsume......

Harutora had known from a very small age that he didn't have the spirit-seeing ability, but he had only begun to realize around the time he entered middle school that his childhood dream of becoming an Onmyouji was actually not his fate. After growing up, he had already woken up from his childhood dreams for the future and begun directly facing his own real future.

At around that time, he had slowly grown alienated from Natsume, who had been very intimate with him.

After all, Natsume was taking great strides towards her future of becoming an Onmyouji, and had already decided before entering middle school that she would test into the Onmyou Academy after graduating from middle school and end up becoming a professional Onmyouji. Harutora didn't see any other choice for Natsume - he didn't even dare imagine any.

This girl walked towards a different path from him and would definitely enter another world. The Harutora from back then was confused over how to face that kind of childhood friend. So, he had naturally left Natsume's side with the self-righteous beliefs that Natsume thought the same as he did.

Of course, Harutora's beliefs had been mistaken. Natsume had still one-sidedly believed that 'Harutora would become her shikigami' after the distance between the two of them gradually widened.

Harutora only understood when he was in his third year of middle school. At the time, he told Natsume that he was going to enter an ordinary high school. Harutora had hurt Natsume - the worlds of the two of them were decisively separated just like that. Even Harutora believed so at the time.

...Then......

At the time, Natsume had slowly changed. She became more feminine, sedate, and looked mature.

Every time he met her, he felt that she had become prettier......

Comparing her with himself, who had always been a stupid brat, produced an insurmountable gap.

On the other hand, Harutora met Hokuto on a summer day in his first year of middle school. That nostalgic and never-fading 'summer race' happened just as Harutora planned on moving towards a new path.

Hokuto was a 'new friend' to Harutora. As a member of the Tsuchimikado family and as someone who had dreamed of becoming an Onmyouji since childhood, and as a young man who had begun moving towards a new, more realistic future - he made a friend. This encounter symbolized a new era, a new life, and a brand-new self.

He had wanted to walk towards a realistic, definite world, and Hokuto was the first friend he met along the way.

Natsume, Hokuto.

Harutora couldn't think of these two people, who symbolized completely different meanings, as the same person.

Such a possibility was hard to imagine.

But,

...That ribbon......

"......"

Harutora walked along the road with a bitter expression.

If Hokuto was Natsume's shikigami, why had Natsume done such a thing?

It was a waste of effort no matter how he thought about her reasons.

It might be to watch over the boy who would one day become her shikigami, or it might just have been a silly distraction from the start but later gradually became hard to pull away from. In addition, she couldn't truly interact with Harutora who had already become distant - that was probably also a reason. There were many possibilities.

But, regarding how rational the reasons were, only Natsume knew the answer. From there on, further speculation was not possible.

...Think about other related areas.

It was plain to see that Hokuto and Natsume's personalities just happened to be opposites.

Hokuto was direct, cheerful, childlike, random, expressed her emotions honestly, and her happiness and anger were stronger than normal. She spoke with a tone like a boy, and Harutora had always teased her for being a 'tomboy'.

In comparison, Natsume was quiet, mature, sedate, and already had a firm grasp on 'herself' when she entered middle school. Thinking carefully, she was a bit cold in some sense, and sometimes she even pull back into her shell. Frankly, Harutora had frequently felt that she was hard to approach.

They were completely different after more careful thinking.

But, Harutora's impressions of Natsume were all from before he had come to Tokyo. More accurately, they were his 'preconceptions' of her when he had a distant relationship with Natsume - Harutora had only realized this recently.

After going to the Onmyou Academy together and living in neighboring rooms of the same dorm, his impression of Natsume had suddenly changed. Even if he described this in the most conservative manner, he could still say that his image of her had collapsed.

After all, Natsume got mad often, and laughed unexpectedly innocently. Her excellent grades hadn't changed, but she often slipped up, and she was a bit timid at important times.

Ignorant of the world, acted tough, she always behaved normally, but actually didn't have confidence in herself.

Harutora had finally understood after walking the same road.

Natsume was the genius who would become the next head of the Tsuchimikado.

Also, she was a normal girl.

...Yeah, well, maybe not 'normal', as after all various things had happened......

Among them, Harutora felt the most surprised that Natsume was hiding the 'naivety' in her heart, or her childishness. Before this, Harutora had always felt that Natsume had already become an 'adult'. An indifferent figure with the goal of being the main family's next head - also, an attitude of looking coldly upon things useless to this cause - such impressions were deeply implanted into Harutora's mind. They were probably also 'preconceptions'.

Such 'preconceptions' weren't mistaken themselves, but Natsume wasn't as simple as Harutora thought. They were only one side to her.

...Come to think of it, the first time I spoke to the 'guy' Natsume after entering the Onmyou Academy, I felt that 'this person is a bit tense today somehow'.

At the time, he had immediately thrown that matter away with indifference. After all, Natsume's complete change of personality was basically only at the time when she pretended to be a male. He had taken that personality change to be a sort of act by Natsume and hadn't dug any deeper.

It was different now. Now, Harutora already understood that 'Natsume when she was pretending to be a male' was also 'Natsume'. Needless to say, when she pretended to be a male, it was more common for her to show the 'her' that usually wasn't expressed.

If it were the Natsume from those times...

If it were the Natsume pretending to be a male... Overlap wasn't impossible with the image of Hokuto that Harutora was extremely familiar with.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Ironically it because he knows Natsume by the one side she ever shows in public even to him far too well.

Actually, he knows 2 sides of her. The side she always shows to the public - i.e. her trying to pass as a boy, and her side she shows to her family - her acting like a girl.
Though in both cases she acts serious and diligent, her mannerisms are considerably different.
Her behaviour as Hokuto is something she rarely ever shows, to anyone.

That being said, he got several hints that should have made him consider the possibility Natsume was Hokuto, and it wasn't limited to the pink ribbon.
For one, the nickname Bakatora is something Hokuto coined for him. No one else called him that way, but Natsume did (sure, eventually his friends picked it up, but it was from Natsume).
Natsume also dropped hints here and there, like when she talked about having seen fireworks with him.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Actually, he knows 2 sides of her. The side she always shows to the public - i.e. her trying to pass as a boy, and her side she shows to her family - her acting like a girl.
Though in both cases she acts serious and diligent, her mannerisms are considerably different.
Her behaviour as Hokuto is something she rarely ever shows, to anyone.

That not what I'm talking about though. The side she acts as Hokuto is not the side that acts as a boy. When she behaves like a guy it's more like a masculine version of her Ojousama personality, not the naive, childish and bubbly side that takes most people aback which defines Hokuto.

That being said, he got several hints that should have made him consider the possibility Natsume was Hokuto, and it wasn't limited to the pink ribbon.
For one, the nickname Bakatora is something Hokuto coined for him. No one else called him that way, but Natsume did (sure, eventually his friends picked it up, but it was from Natsume).
Natsume also dropped hints here and there, like when she talked about having seen fireworks with him.

Those hints that only reader would pick up upon though (we are omniscient afterall), furthermore does not explain huge change contradicting traits which is the core problem Harutora has with reconciling the two personalities. Natsume as Hokuto is really extreme (deliberately so of course) from how Natsume normal is no matter how you slice it. It may not be too difficult to see a bit Hokuto in Natsume it's hard to see anything of Natsume in Hokuto. If were Harutora to accept Natsume=Hokuto than means reevaluating everything he knew about her staring from their childhood till present (which he does) because it's not something anyone can go okay at easily. It's not normal, it defiles common sense of what he knows (which as Suzu explains in vol 5 is part what makes magic what it is).

Basically, part of volume 6 is Harutora is stepping out of his boxed view of Natsume and learning to understand her better to see Hokuto being Natsume does make some strange sense.

[NectorPrime]

How old is natsume anyway ? I always thought she was about same age as harutora or is abit younger than him by days but cause the convo earlier about what's been happening with her in volume 11 made it sound like she was around abit before bakatora was even born ?? :S please explain so I don't suffer the confusion any longer

[Iron Maw]

She should be about the same age as Harutora far as I know, but only a novel reader can really answer that. However according to the JP wiki, Yuuko died just before Natsume was almost old enough to enter elementary school or something like that.

EDIT: Yeah, they're the same age.

[versionf]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

However according to the JP wiki, Yuuko died just before Natsume was almost old enough to enter elementary school or something like that.

That's Yuuko's mother. Yuuko died before they found Natsume.

[noctis_lucis]

Originally Posted by versionf

That's Yuuko's mother. Yuuko died before they found Natsume.

So the one that loved Natsume was Harutora's grandmother who was Yuuko's mother ?