(L) Red Garden

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by nadare

No you got it all wrong. They did get Lise, too. But, Lise was recaptured(see episode 1, when the monsters where attacking a car. It was Lise.)

Ok your right i went back and rewatched ep 1 but now im even more intrested i might have to start playing devils advocate. I think the next few episodes will start to reveal a little bit more about whats going on. IF you think about it we really dont know too much about what situations our 4 heroins have been forced into. My main intrest is the manifestation of their powers will one be stronger than the others do they have the same powers or powers only suited for each one.

My theory on strenght potential is is the strength of their powers will be dependent on how strong their will to live is. The lady did say if you lose the will to live than you wont survive. If thats true than the opposite should apply as well the stronger your will to live the stronger you are

[Shinndou]

I've been wondering... since the girls are supposedly 'dead' but are able to live on thanks to Lula, does it mean that they've actually stopped aging? It'd be an interesting information to know. If that's the case they could sort of be compared to vampires, in a way.

Just speculating, eh.

[Scribble]

It's funny that everyone has picked up on every thought that went through my head upon watching Red Garden.

PS: Gonzo seems to be making up for all the crap it's been releasing....

[Guido]

There a few reasons why I think episode four is currently one of the best for Red Garden.

This is because how verosimile and natural each of the girls behave and are reacting to the full mess they have been thrown into.

Spoiler:

Kate wanted nothing but to help the other girls cope with their situation. The best manner possible in her reasoning is to befriend them all, so that they can stick together and share the pain.
She's trying to build that circle for trust and keeping the composure of that circle by keeping herself calm and stoic.

It pays off now that she's earned Rose friendship. At the start of the demon hunting, Rose was the most psychologically affected. For me it was nice to watch that she's trying to adjust, and I know its hasn't been easy for her.
I don't know if Kate is befriending the girls for maintaining calm within the group or she's geniunely concerned at all.
I guess she doesn't want the other three ending like Lise did and feels committed to prevent from happening. What I did understand is that Kate wants to empathise with everyone's situation to relieve them from the shock.

No matter how despicable and rude Rachel her outcome reaction was natural. Simply, what's the point to resume your boring if someone else tells you you're already dead. She's just coping with her reality and throwing everything else to the drain.
I feel miserable for her and Luke, since with this turns of events their relationship is straying and cutting off. Poor Rachel!

Even when they could not get Rachel to their side or find Claire, it felt nice the moments that Kate and Rose spent confiding to each other some of their personal stuff.

Last, Claire who has her own mature approach to deal with their posthumous situation. She's searching for that very same mansion to get hints or clues of who or what did this to them. Pure detective work, and yet she's spied upon by the very same guy on the white suit.

What is his name?

[Shinndou]

Originally Posted by Guido

Spoiler:

What is his name?

Spoiler:

According to ANN, his name is Hervé.

[DoReMiFaSo]

Originally Posted by Guido

Spoiler:

Even when they could not get Rachel to their side or find Claire, it felt nice the moments that Kate and Rose spent confiding to each other some of their personal stuff.

Last, Claire who has her own mature approach to deal with their posthumous situation. She's searching for that very same mansion to get hints or clues of who or what did this to them. Pure detective work, and yet she's spied upon by the very same guy on the white suit.

Spoiler:

I still have my doubts about Kate's feelings. I don't know if she's pretending to be composed or not. I have the feeling that she's repressing her emotions and will breakdown one day.

I agree the moments between Kate and Rose in the train and at the park were nice. I felt really sad for them when Rose said that skipping school (a rather trivial thing) made her happy.

As for Claire, you will find out that she's not as composed as she appear to be in ep. 5

[Impz]

ok, i am not sure if anyone is interested, since most of the discussion are from raw viewers. However, i am writing a brief summary and the likes on red garden in my blog on this link about Red Garden.

If anyone is interested, do check it out and make some comments on my speculative statements, ya? That said, i am doing an episodic review on episode 5 soon enough, once i get enough time on my hands, tee hee ^+^

On Claire in episode 5

Spoiler:

Claire in fact is also weak. She is fearful of the fact that she does not know what is happening and she is trying so hard to be strong and defend herself. She, unlike Rachel and Rose who think they are already dead and not human, feels that she needs to see the truth before being able to accept it.

That to me, plus the sudden outburst in the villa where she ranted crazily, smashed all my thoughts that Claire is in fact the most courageous one.

------------

On Kate in episode 5

Spoiler:

I believe that she is in fact the strongest among the four in mental strength. She is probably the most affected but her outlook on life and the fact that she does rely on Rose, Claire and others for support meant that there is still a life for her to live. Even though she has friends, at least these friends give her the proper support, unlike our three other heroines

-----------

On the guy in episode 5

Spoiler:

Who the hell is he? I got a feeling he has done quite a few of these things before and is in fact an accomplice of Lu. The thing is....why?

[Impz]

sorry for the double post but if anyone is interested (the people who can't read raws and want a rough idea of what's happening in episode 5)

Episode 5 screenshots and summary

Ja ne~

[MrProphet]

Well, episode 5 was interesting in several ways.

- Rachel's torment was certainly touching, but I couldn't help thinking about her sexy lingerie the whole time through. 8)

- Genga was somewhat spotty in this episode. The close up shots were perfect as usual, but I did notice that several long shots has weird perspective, shifting details and disproportionate objects. Kate suffered the most, as far as I could notice. Which is strange, because there were many really well-positioned shots in there as well.

- The animation of the rain in the beginning sequence was a work of pure animating genius. It was simply amazing. The best "rain" work I've seen in a long time. So moody, stylish and atmospheric.

- It seems curious to me that Rachel seems to be the one whose social dynamic has undergone the most change. Kate is suffering through the ordeal in her usual bottled-up manner. Rose and Claire keep up the spirits, but their outer shell cracks a bit here and there. Rachel, on the other hand, is actively self-destructing, literally imploding with all the rage and confusion that others feel, but generally try to keep inside. Why Rachel, and not equally extroverted Claire?

- A lot of the film in many scenes looks very grainy and coarse. Is it a video artifact, or deliberate artistic styling. I've seen this grain effect in other episodes as well, and I keep wondering about the desired effect it's supposed to have.

Good episode, all in all. Can't wait to see some more of Red Garden and more of the psychological puzzles it keeps adding.

[fignae]

Spoiler for ep 5, quoting MrProphet above:

Originally Posted by MrProphet

Rachel, on the other hand, is actively self-destructing, literally imploding with all the rage and confusion that others feel, but generally try to keep inside. Why Rachel, and not equally extroverted Claire?

Yay Rachel, yay Rachel!

I was thinking during the ep that maybe she has a stronger dark side than the other girls and is also the one who's most in denial of this aspect of herself, preferring to bury herself in surface beauty. Hence the bursts of superhuman power, which the others haven't shown. But anger and frustration fuels sudden strength. Her family life is as dysfunctional as the rest, that's for sure. It isn't about how introverted or extroverted they are, it's coping style and how they have led their lives.

- A lot of the film in many scenes looks very grainy and coarse. Is it a video artifact, or deliberate artistic styling. I've seen this grain effect in other episodes as well, and I keep wondering about the desired effect it's supposed to have.

Hmm. Film grain. Gives a feeling of age, naturalism, edge, mystery, darkness.

[Sorrow-K]

Originally Posted by yononaka

No singing in ep 4 either. Now it almost feels like something is missing

And unless I misunderstood the reference, Rose seems to be a Soup Nazi customer

Hey, why not. He makes good soup.

I thought a lot of the attempted drama in this ep was hindered by a rare Gonzo lapse in art quality. A lot of the character poses seemed somewhat disfigured in this ep. The character designs have always been a contentious issue about this series, but I haven't minded, since the animation has been, to date, so fluid. But it wasn't in this ep.

Slow ep as well, until the end. The fight scenes have always been the most tense in the series. Same deal for this ep, but I didn't think it was anywhere near as intense as the last ep. But it is reassuring to know that several questions still remain unanswered, which should keep things intriguing for the rest of the series.

Rose seems useless in the fights. I hope that changes, it makes her character seem, well, rather cowardly and thus unlikable.

[wao]

I only just noticed how they changed the ED in episode 5 I love this! They keep changing it in little ways episode to episode and this one was downright hilarious, I almost choked on my food when we suddenly see

Spoiler for not really a spoiler:

JC and Lula breaking out in to T-shirts and singing! WTF!

And I finally got around to watching it, and I really simply cannot say any more than I have already said - the voice acting is absolutely excellent, and I'm very fascinated by the way things are going. I think this is the first series from Gonzo that I've actually really enjoyed...

I've come to be able to look at Rachel as someone acting as she is - while I still don't like her character, the very interesting and somehow believeable way she's being portrayed makes me appreciate her existance rather than hate it.

EDIT: Looks like the singing is back in episode 6...

[Matrim]

I finally saw episode four, I guess I had too big expectations because I ended up liking it the least from the subbed ones. When even I notice problems with the animation, it surely is bad. For instance the blood on Rachel's face disappeared for a few seconds then appeared again. Btw, was the usage of the baseball bat reminiscent of Higurashi or what?

Normally I should get VERY pissed off at girls like Rachel - but you know what, here I was thinking "this is exactly what should happen if Rachel was that kind of person". Of course, I still don't like her - I hate girls like that, anyway- but the way she's starting to break down doesn't feel so much emo but rather a very beliveable reaction.

Agreed. In most cases when you have a group of characters in some bad situation, you see them forgetting their differences and behave somewhat friendly with each other pretty quickly. And Rachel does have a point - if I am told that I am dead and this is more or less proven later on the last thing I would do is go to to school.
And Claire was so reckless while checking out the mansion. I wonder why evil blonde guy did nothing to her, though. I guess while living in that rough neighbourhood has made Claire a lot more daring than the rest.
I am waiting for Kate to snap at some point, you just can't be so nice to everyone all the time. But she really was there when Rose needed any kind of friend, so I can't help but admire her.
These policemen who interrogated Kate are a bunch of amateurs - her reaction when the mentioned a possible boyfiend of Lis was so obvious. I wonder how the hell they have determined that all those cases must be suicides - how do you know whether it's a suicide or not when the body is found in the forest?

EDIT: Looks like the singing is back in episode 6..

Great!

[DoReMiFaSo]

Okay, I watched ep.6 raw. This episode is kind of hard to understand with my poor Japanese skills .

For one thing, the song is back briefly. This time sing by Rachel, and I believe it's the same one in ep2.

The internal struggle continues, and we learn more about Herve in this episode.

Spoiler:

He is working for some research facility, and he has a younger sister who is ill. He doesn't look entirely like a bad guy, because he worries about his sister a lot. I would say he's willing to do anything (including bad stuff) to help his sister. Maybe that's the reason for him to be the antagonist if he is really the one.

We also learn more about the girls' situation from Lula.

Spoiler:

Lula said if one of them run away or refuse to fight, all of them would die. She also said there is a way to go back to normal (if I am not mistaken).

What's really creepy is when she showed the girls their corpse. I can't imagine if I am one of them and seeing my own corpse. That would be so so so creepy.

Oh, and I don't understand about the lemon thing. I think Kate said that lemon can increase their strength or something . Well, I will have to wait for subs to clarify some of the stuff in this episode.

Originally Posted by Matrim

Agreed. In most cases when you have a group of characters in some bad situation, you see them forgetting their differences and behave somewhat friendly with each other pretty quickly. And Rachel does have a point - if I am told that I am dead and this is more or less proven later on the last thing I would do is go to to school.

These policemen who interrogated Kate are a bunch of amateurs - her reaction when the mentioned a possible boyfiend of Lis was so obvious. I wonder how the hell they have determined that all those cases must be suicides - how do you know whether it's a suicide or not when the body is found in the forest?

Maybe some other forensic evidences indicated that it's a suicide? Well, at least one of the policeman noticed that Kate was lying, so they aren't entirely amateurs.

[Matrim]

Well, at least one of the policeman noticed that Kate was lying, so they aren't entirely amateurs.

He said that he had a feeling Kate was linked to all this, not that she was lying about specific things. You'd expect detectives to be a bit better if the show bothers to show their investigation at all. Maybe I have read too many mystery novels or think that everyone should be a detective machine like Runge from Monster. Anyway, I wonder what the role of the police will be in the series. I hope it will find something sooner or later.
The news Rachel was watching mentioned "no signs of physical injury" but I don't think many people bother to go and die in the forest after they have drunk poison or done something else in order to end their lives. If I were a policeman, I would never believe this was just a series of suicides. If after the autopsy the reason for the death is still unknown or looks like a death from sickness, why would the cops talk about suicides even when alone?

[Shinndou]

Spoiler for regarding episode 6:

Did you guys notice that Herve's sister (and the other girl with her as well) has the same type of hair, without any 'shading', like our four heroines do? Does that mean that she did die and is now 'borrowing' an other body as well? That would somehow hint that Herve's goal isn't that far or different from Lula's goal probably, provided that Herve's somehow involved with the 'mutant-like men' that the girls have to fight every night. He's probably trying to 'revive' her sister.

[DoReMiFaSo]

Originally Posted by Shinndou

Spoiler for regarding episode 6:

Did you guys notice that Herve's sister (and the other girl with her as well) has the same type of hair, without any 'shading', like our four heroines do? Does that mean that she did die and is now 'borrowing' an other body as well? That would somehow hint that Herve's goal isn't that far or different from Lula's goal probably, provided that Herve's somehow involved with the 'mutant-like men' that the girls have to fight every night. He's probably trying to 'revive' her sister.

Good point. I didn't notice that.

Spoiler:

But if that's the case, then Marie's group (The one that got killed off in ep3) should have that type of hair as well, but they didn't.

[Jewelray]

Episode 4: Did they really just make a soup nazi reference?

[Guido]

Originally Posted by Impz

sorry for the double post but if anyone is interested (the people who can't read raws and want a rough idea of what's happening in episode 5)

Episode 5 screenshots and summary

Ja ne~

You have my thanks Impz, because after having read your synopsis right after watching episode five now I got the grasp on what the girls are facing.

Basically, it is fear of the unknown. Until episode six, the girls died but are living in borrowed lives, yet hey have not come to terms with that reality and thought everything was carrying on as always. That is when they had their first encounter with the beast man, and Rula told them that they'll be living for them from now on to fight until an unknown objective is accomplished.

Spoiler:

I do sympathize why Rachel and Claire snapped the way they did, because they do NOT know what happened to them.

Someone is holding the answers from them for what....?

And Rula's relunctant to share more clues, except for matters related solely on the mission that they must undertake; annihilating the beast man.

It's a kill or die situation which are told to choose in either fight to live for an unknown purpose or let yourself be killed in an unceremonius fashion.

I did expect for Rose to snap at her siblings given that all of this fear and stress was piling in her, and she was too afraid of the truth for not allowing Kate to reach her by phone. Summing that and that her siblings were making an annoying ruckus, she just let it go all once without reservations.

Rachel and Claire scared me the most.

Spoiler:

The post-stress trauma and nervous breakdown has made a far progress on them.

Rachel messing her room, smashing her windows, and spraying on all herself with perfume because hallucinates to being stained with the smell of blood and having visions all over of the beast men. At first her behavior was creepy to me but eventually I warmed up to her and found the whole reaction depressing.

All thoughts and images about Claire being a strong person were once smashed when she too violently snapped and hallucinated that someone intruded inside the mansion. She was on fear that it might be another beast man when in fact it was rat.
Claire cannot go on with a life like this, unless someone brings her the truth to her.

The only thing that gives reassurance to the girls that there's still some vestiges of existence in their new "life" is that they're not alone. It would take great courage from their part to come to accept their deaths, since I believe would become a need for all four of them to stick together.

However, if Kate can no longer hold her own sanity, amounted that the other three girls keep on day in and day out with their hysterics, then they have no chance to survive all the way to the end in order to disenmasquerade the whole picture of the truth.

[MrProphet]

Well, I liked Episode 6, if that is any surprise. 8)

Rose doing the <3 face in the lemon-eating scene simply had me floored. I mean, it was almost as if she was going to utter "uguu~~~" or some other cutesy crap. I think I'd have had a heart attack if she did. 8)

And speaking of lemons... was it lemon juice that Hevre had Mireille drink where Hevre's sister said that Mireille wasn't feeling well?

Sound editing was through the roof. The moment where they have Rachel singing, Lula talking to Kate AND Kate and Rose talking to Rachel all at the same time and perfectly synced to overlap and create an ambient sound... WOW... just WOW.

This is the second show this year after Noein where the sound editing is simply leaving me speechless.