World Of Warcraft Discussion Thread

[Ithekro]

Wait. If Arthas is going after Darnassus and Orgimmar, which or both on the same continent (roughly), then he must be after something. (Aside from giving the orcs and night elves a reason to go after the Scourge at all) A demon relic (or remains)? An attempt at the remains of the World Tree? A favor for Deathwing? Could we see a Mt. Hyjal major patch at say 3.4? (Like Sumwell was) Or something to do with Uldam? (like some of the instance patches)

We may never know...or it may take a few years to get the stories out.

[Solais]

Maybe he wants to - you guessed it - Take over the world. (OF COURSE!!)
<NC reference>

[Jaden]

So anyone in beta? I got a key for EU beta, but the only server is usually pretty crowded and hardly ever up to begin with. And the builds that do get hosted are still pretty damn buggy.

It's a well known thing though that other countries' betas are just for show and the real testing is being done in the US, so how does it look over there?

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

I've access to the beta (US), on the PvP server though. Interesting experience that (never played on a PvP realm before), ret-paladins are out attempting to make up for the last 4 years of tears... Its buggy, its a beta, so its going to be buggy that's expected. But still it is slightly annoying when they do a Beta push but don't put all the changes they are working on in, leaving some abilities half finished or flat out left out. That's my only gripe though.

Other then that its all systems go, plenty bugs to test, suggestions to make, and feedback to give. Outland is pretty quite for DK's once they get past the gank-fest of Hellfire, I've had a few skirmishes and had my ass handed to me on most of them, but still its similar to Live. Northrend is crowded, sooo sooo many people. But despite any fighting that might break out (or Ret Paladins solo'n towns >.>) people seem more interested in testing the content which, I have to say is exemplar. Still many bugs and crashes though. I just wish they had gotten all the Unholy changes in this patch /sigh.

[Corn]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Wait. If Arthas is going after Darnassus and Orgimmar, which or both on the same continent (roughly), then he must be after something. (Aside from giving the orcs and night elves a reason to go after the Scourge at all) A demon relic (or remains)? An attempt at the remains of the World Tree? A favor for Deathwing? Could we see a Mt. Hyjal major patch at say 3.4? (Like Sumwell was) Or something to do with Uldam? (like some of the instance patches)

We may never know...or it may take a few years to get the stories out.

There are 8 warcraft books in development right now. They got major plans to brand the hell out of this franchise. Basically they can make any kind of expansion they want.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

For those not in the beta but would like to see some fun screenies, I give you...

Spoiler for ...Many Pictures:

Rawr, login screen


Obligatory shot of Arthas stroking his blade..


He's back to sweep the leg!


Mmm Valkyrie.. I mean Val'kyr.


This is Sp.. Lights Hope!


Bug's with Chains of Ice and Death Grip are fun


OMG hair cut...


Gnome-hawk


Gate of Fortune


First Quest reward in Borean Tundra


Path of Frost fun... (doesn't do that foggy border, that's just the area I'm in)


So, making you question your own morals is a big thing in Northrend...


...particularly for a 'trying to kick the habit Death Knight'... or not. /cackle


Ding!


Death Strike hoooooooo


The Nexus is really quite epic looking...


And very blue


Ticking off the Lord of Magic...


...is really not a smart idea.


Phat loots...


...Just keep getting phatter.


Potential rival for the Devilsaur... Silithid (any of them?).


Gnome's finally cornered the flight path market... well, a small part.


Progenitor of the Gnomish Race (big lore spoiler there, for those that like Titan lore)


King Mrgl-Mrgl


Cutsey Overwhelming.


Murloc 'Peace' treaty


New 'Vehicle' UI


Nothing Boring about Borean


Wyrmrest Temple


The 'Burned Woods'... (actually Ember Clutch)


Grizzlemaw... um wow... big.


Gun'Drak, capital of Northrend Trolls.


Random Elf Shot.. (Oh noes... )


McGoyver...


Pulp Fiction ftw


Vry'Kul look really interesting. Their lore is really Norse inspired, its awesome.


Frost is totally balanced...*


Totally...*


The Ashbringer... (spoiler don't click if you don't want it!)


*The bulk of Frost's damage comes from its spells rather then physical damage, hence the (currently excessive) spell hits.

[Xellos]

Nice screens Hat and Clogs. DK and ret pallies are looking pretty overpowered...hopefully they don't get nerfed too much . Would like to get a beta key to mess around but I'm pretty content atm taking a break from the game. I'll definitely pop back in during WotLK to try out DK.

[krisslanza]

I want to get in that beta so bad... ._.
But I would need to like call Blizzard and get my email changed. And that sounds like too much effort if I didn't get a beta access... That might motivate me to play again

That or if people actually RP'd on RPPvP servers instead of just random idiots...

[Ithekro]

Talk about high over Halaa....

[krisslanza]

Those are some awesome screenies @_@
I must find someone who has beta access and torture them into giving me their account

It's the only way!

[rainbow_rena]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

Those are some awesome screenies @_@
I must find someone who has beta access and torture them into giving me their account

It's the only way!

what he/she said^

[Xacual]

Looking at the new buff / debuff changes, I find from a raid stand point I'm happy that I won't have to worry about a certain buff or debuff that is vital to raid success missing. On the other hand though making 2-3 classes all share buffs that were once unique to a class / spec, makes me feel disappointed. I think trying to balance buffs / debuffs was a desperate need, but I think the way they are choosing to do it is going to hurt my enjoyment of the game a bit.

Spoiler for The post about the changes.:

With the release of upcoming content patch players will see a change in the way we allow buffs and debuffs to stack exclusively in a raid. For the most part, what this change means is that many buffs and debuffs that were previously allowed to stack together no longer can, and that many buffs and debuffs that only a single talent specialization could bring can now be brought by multiple different specializations. The philosophy behind this change shows up in many of the changes we have made in Wrath of The Lich King, such as when we made almost all buffs raid-wide. We want players to be able to form raids and parties based on who they want to play with, rather than who has the correct talents and abilities to min-max their raid performance.

Raid composition will still matter to some extent, but without this change, it would have overwhelmed every other aspect of raid planning (as we added new capabilities to each of 30 different talent trees). You no longer need to rigidly control the melee/spellcaster balance of your raid, or make sure every group has all the critical buffing classes, etc. This change has many class balance implications.

IMPORTANT! Before we are done, we will thoroughly test the performance of every class. It should not be assumed that one class' current performance relative to others in beta is final. Some classes (and specializations) will need to be reduced in power and some increased. Many may feel the change has more impact on class X than class Y. We will address all of those concerns via our internal testing and community feedback.

There are thirty or so different categories into which buffs and debuffs fit. Here you will find a comprehensive list of the changes made broken down by category and which spells/talents are in that category.

* Armor Debuff (Major): Acid Spit (exotic Hunter pet), Expose Armor, Sunder Armor
* Armor Debuff (Minor): Faerie Fire, Sting (Hunter pet), Curse of Recklessness
* Physical Vulnerability Debuff: Blood Frenzy, (2nd Talent Spec TBA)
* Melee Haste Buff: Improved Icy Talons, Windfury Totem
* Melee Critical Strike Chance Buff: Leader of the Pack, Rampage
* Attack Power Buff (Flat Add): Battle Shout, Blessing of Might
* Attack Power Buff (Multiplier): Abomination's Might, Trueshot Aura, Unleashed Rage
* Ranged Attack Power Buff: Hunter's Mark (only Hunters benefit, so no need to exclude against other class abilities)
* Bleed Damage Increase Debuff: Mangle, Trauma
* Spell Haste Buff: Wrath of Air Totem
* Spell Critical Strike Chance Buff: Moonkin Aura, Elemental Oath
* Spell Critical Strike Chance Debuff: Improved Scorch, Winter's Chill
* Increased Spell Damage Taken Debuff: Ebon Plaguebringer, Earth and Moon, Curse of the Elements
* Increased Spell Power Buff: Focus Magic, Improved Divine Spirit, Flametongue Totem, Totem of Wrath, Demonic Pact
* Increased Spell Hit Chance Taken Debuff: Improved Faerie Fire, Misery
* Percentage Haste Increase (All Types): Improved Moonkin Aura, Swift Retribution
* Percentage Damage Increase: Ferocious Inspiration, Sanctified Retribution
* Critical Strike Chance Taken Debuff (All types): Heart of the Crusader, Totem of Wrath
* Melee Attack Speed Slow Debuff: Icy Touch, Infected Wounds, Judgements of the Just, Thunderclap
* Melee Hit Chance Reduction Debuff: Insect Swarm, Scorpid Sting
* Healing Debuff: Wound Poison, Aimed Shot, Mortal Strike, Furious Attacks
* Attack Power Debuff: Demoralizing Roar, Curse of Weakness, Demoralizing Shout
* Stat Multiplier Buff: Blessing of Kings
* Stat Add Buff: Mark of the Wild
* Agility and Strength Buff: Strength of Earth Totem, Horn of Winter
* Stamina Buff: Power Word: Fortitude
* Health Buff: Commanding Shout, Blood Pact
* Intellect Buff: Arcane Intellect, Fel Intelligence
* Spirit Buff: Divine Spirit, Fel Intelligence
* Damage Reduction Percentage Buff: Grace, Blessing of Sanctuary
* Percentage Increase Healing Received Buff: Tree of Life, Improved Devotion Aura
* Armor Increase Percentage Buff: Inspiration, Ancestral Healing
* Cast Speed Slow: Curse of Tongues, Slow, Mind-numbing Poison.

In each category, you can only benefit from the most powerful spell granting that effect. For example, Fel Intelligence grants spirit and intellect, both weaker than Arcane Intellect and Divine Spirit. If a player has Fel Intelligence and receives a stronger Arcane Intellect buff, he will gain the intellect value from Arcane Intellect and the spirit value from Fel Intelligence.

In most cases, fully-talented players will have exactly equal power on the strength of these buffs and debuffs. Fel Intelligence is an example of where one ability is weaker than others. The buffs in the "Increased Spell Power Buff" category are also not all the same potency, as they scale and grow in radically different ways. In virtually every other case, however, the buffs are equal. This means, for example, that fully-talented Battle Shout and Blessing of Might now grant the exact same amount of attack power.

In addition to this change, we also needed to address the "mana battery" roles in a raid. The mana regeneration effect they grant is no longer limited to their own party, and it no longer depends on the amount of damage they deal. Each time they trigger the mana regeneration effect, 10 people in their raid group will receive a buff which causes them to regenerate 0.5% of their maximum mana each second. This buff, Replenishment, will be given preferentially to raid members with the lowest mana, but will re-evaluate which raid members receive it each time it is fired. Replenishment is provided by Shadow Priests, Survival Hunters, and Retribution Paladins.

Finally, we have modified Heroism and Bloodlust to affect the entire raid. However, all affected raid members will be unable to cast or benefit from Bloodlust/Heroism for 5 minutes.

Below you will find a list of the changes to abilities which exhibit new behavior regardless of the exclusive categories. The changes usually mean the old behavior was removed and replaced by the new behavior. Numbers listed are for maximally-talented versions. Here is that list of changes:

* Improved Scorch: Increases spell critical strike chance against the target.
* Winter's Chill: Also increases spell critical strike chance against the target.
* Elemental Oath: Grants 5% spell crital strike to raid members.
* Improved Moonkin Aura: Grants 3% haste of all types.
* Earth and Moon: Increases spell damage taken from all schools by 13% on the target.
* Misery: Causes spells cast at the target to have +3% spell hit.
* Shadow Weaving: Buffs only self.
* Improved Shadow Bolt: Buffs only self.
* Expose Weakness: Buffs only self.
* Shadow Embrace: Buffs only self.
* Blood Pact: Grants health instead of Stamina.
* Fel Intelligence: Has replacement ranks that grant flat values of Intellect and Spirit.
* Frost Aura: Excludes properly against all other resistance buffs.
* Grace: Reduces damage taken by target by 3%.
* Rampage: Increases melee and ranged critical strike chance by 5% for the raid.
* Improved Faerie Fire: No longer benefits melee and ranged hit chance, only spell hit.
* Hunter's Mark: No longer increases attack power bonus from attacks against the target.
* Improved Hunter's Mark: No longer grants melee attack power.
* Sting (Hunter exotic pet - Wasp): Now acts as a minor armor debuff.
* Waylay: Attack speed reduction changed to 20%.
* Icy Touch: Only slows melee attack speed (not ranged or spell).
* Tree of Life: No longer grants healing based on spirit, grants 3% increased healing received to raid.
* Demonic Pact: Now buffs raid instead of debuffing monsters.
* Focus Magic: Now buffs raid instead of debuffing monsters.
* Totem of Wrath: Now grants a flat amount of spell damage, and all enemies in its radius have an increased chance of being struck by criticals.
* Heroism: Cannot be recast while caster has Exhausted debuff, and those with Exhausted debuff cannot be affected by it.
* Bloodlust: Cannot be recast while caster has Sated debuff, and those with Sated debuff cannot be affected by it.
* Vampiric Touch: Grants Replenishment mana regeneration buff to up to 10 raid members on dealing damage.
* Hunting Party: Grants Replenishment mana regeneration buff to up to 10 raid members on specified shots.
* Judgements of the Wise: Grants Replenishment mana regeneration buff to up to 10 raid members on Judging.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

I think it was a pretty good change TBH. It does have its downsides and it does suck because it removes that little bit of individuality each class had. However it does let us let us take people because we like them, rather then just stacking 5 Resto Shaman to Chain Heal to victory.

I know it'll be different for a lot of guilds, but the long and short of it is, with our guild if you aren't a retard you'll get a raid spot in wotlk. Unless you are Captain Fail, you shouldn't really have anything to worry about. The change *might* affect the top 1% of guilds who like to min/max out the ass, but we're not in that bracket (at least not for TBC), we're about 2-4 months behind the bleeding edge on average.

Personally I think stacking of 5 shaman to heal, or 4 warlocks to blast things into oblivion etc is pretty fail. You should be able to just succeed with your normal group of people rather then having to inflate a particular classes roster. However come wotlk, and that is your normal roster, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to succeed with that. As long as you meet a sensible balance between Tanks/Healers/DPS you should be in the green regardless of class.

Although I'm a little iffy with how many buffs Shaman share with Death Knights, I like them to share them among other classes. IE, trade them the warrior 5% crit for the DK's 10% AP, but leave the DK with 20% haste and str/agi buff. The Heroism change is mildly annoying though, but ultimately good I guess.

[Ithekro]

Hmm. That will change the entire (current) operational stance of the warlock to s.priest ratio. If ISB is self only...and damage amount does nothing for mana regen...then the whole Shadow/Fire debate takes a different course.

I sense many debates on the forums both before and after release date.

[Xacual]

The thing about stacking though is if you can have 8 people provide all the necesary buff / debuff, and then fill the rest of the raid with the current best dps, best healer classes, why wouldn't you? If mages end up being top dps, raids will just end up with 6 mages instead of rogues and warlocks. I just think that if they would have put more time into it they could have come up with a better solution.

Of course not saying mages will be the best dps at 80, I really don't know, just that a raid will make sure they get all the buffs / debuffs they want then go for whatever is the best or FoTM class for the other slots.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Although, according to Blizzard, even DPS classes won't have a huge clear cut advantage over those 'buffing' classes. GC said something along the lines of at most there will only be a few % difference that will only matter to the top 1% of guilds, and then said something about giving rogues a raid buff that will count as utility, to make up for the 'loss of dps'. So you could stack, but, it won't matter really to you unless you are like Nihillium or SK-Gaming or whatever.

Some might find that boring, but hey, if it lets people play the class they like and bosses are still dieing... what-me-worry.

I don't mean to offend anyone with this, since I've been guilty of it to. At times I think people in this game become too focused on topping charts rather then just.. playing to have fun and kill stuff. Don't get me wrong I like to know the numbers behind my skills and abilities as much as the next person and I will come with consumables and whatnot that's needed, but I think that there comes a point where min/maxing becomes excessively redundant and cuts into valuable boss killing time.

An example being Brutallus, its a straightforward but intense DPS fight. You don't need to Min/Max that class wise to much to be able to succeed. Bring Mages, or Rogues, Hunters, or Warlocks or even a Ret-Paladin and you'll succeed. hell we've done it as melee heavy, caster heavy and balanced between the two. 16 DPS 7 healers 2 tanks and a f'kton of consumables. (not the greatest example but first one that springs to mind)

I think Blizzards goal is to reduce the need for that excessive min/maxing, and just let people play with what they have.

I think the change is good and has potential, IF they can balance it. And of that, I have my doubts.

[Narzia]

New titles incoming.

Spoiler:

Achievements Titles

* Arena Master - Complete the arena achievements
* Salty - Complete the fishing achievements
* The Diplomat - Raise your reputation level from unfriendly to exalted with Timbermaw Hold, Sporeggar and the Kurenai / The Mag'har.
* The Hallowed - Complete the Hallow's End achievements
* The Seeker - Complete 3000 quests.

Feats of Strength

* Twilight Vanquisher - Participated in the realm first Sartharion the Onyx Guardian kill (25 player).
* The Supreme - First player on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Assassin - First rogue on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Warbringer - First warrior on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Archmage - First mage on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Of The Ebon Blade - First death knight on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Stalker - First hunter on the realm to achieve level 80.
* The Malefic - First warlock on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Prophet - First priest on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Crusader - First paladin on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Arch Druid - First druid on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Of the Ten Storms - First shaman on the realm to achieve level 80.
* The Magic Seeker - Participated in the realm first Malygos kill (25 player).
* Conqueror of Naxxramas - Participated in the realm first Kel'Thuzad kill (25 player).
* Of Gnomeregan - First gnome on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Of Quel'thalas - First blood elf on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Of Argus - First draenei on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Of Khaz Modan - First dwarf on the realm to achieve level 80.
* The Lion Hearted - First human on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Champion of Elune - First night elf on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Hero of Orgrimmar - First orc on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Plainsrunner - First tauren on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Of the Darkspear - First troll on the realm to achieve level 80.
* The Forsaken - First forsaken on the realm to achieve level 80.
* Grand Master Blacksmith - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in blacksmithing.
* Grand Master Alchemist - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in alchemy.
* Iron Chef - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in cooking.
* Grand Master Enchanter - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in enchanting.
* Grand Master Engineer - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in engineering.
* Doctor - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in first aid.
* Grand Master Angler - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in fishing.
* Grand Master Herbalist - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in herbalism.
* Grand Master Scribe - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in inscription.
* Grand Master Jewelcrafter - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in jewelcrafting.
* Grand Master Leatherworker - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in leatherworking.
* Grand Master Miner - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in mining.
* Grand Master Skinner - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in skinning.
* Grand Master Tailor - First player on the realm to achieve 450 skill in tailoring.
* Hero of Northrend - First player on the realm to gain exalted reputation with the Argent Crusade, Wyrmrest Accord, Kirin Tor and Knights of the Ebon Blade.

Needless to say i'm pissed. I know i won't get any of said "first" titles. Not because i'm not good enough. Not because i'm not devoted enough. But because i don't have enough time; i'll never have a chance from the very beginning. It's so hard to stand out a bit in this game, since eveything looks the same. And IF there's something that makes you stand out, it's something only few will ever achieve, simply because they have no whole guild stuffing it up their ass. Yes, i'm waving at you Scarab Lord 'n company.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Hero of Northrend - First player on the realm to gain exalted reputation with the Argent Crusade, Wyrmrest Accord, Kirin Tor and Knights of the Ebon Blade.

Wait, either that means only Death Knights can get this title, or non-deathknights can be buddies with the Death Knight faction... Which feels abit weird

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Mmmmm don't really like the 'of the Ebon Blade' title...

TBH I'd have preferred if they had done a prefix for it like the other races, for a Server First like 'Highlord' for example although that one doesn't quite fit. But give suffix titles like "Of the Ebon Blade for those that reach 80 on their Death Knight and have similar for other classes.

[Ending]

Ya, the "first only" -titles blow. They sound pretty neat and I would like to get the "prophet" one for my priest, but the fact that you have to skip the journey and go straight to the goal is mind-numbing. My realm isn't one of the most active ones, so I might have good chances, but I really dislike the idea of missing out the "first looks" of the expansion when everything is still new.