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ShinyBunny · 2011-07-17, 14:15

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Also, do you know why I think Kotetsu was pretty blaise during the celebration ceremony being thrown for his teammate Barnaby? I think it's because while he was happy for Barnaby, he also hated the thought that his big hero Mr. Legend had his records broken.

I'd disagree. He was just really worried about his own problems. It's shown throughout the whole episode. He's not really paying much attention to Barnaby breaking the record. Legend is important to him, but the image has been shattered bit. I don't really think it's important for him to know the full extent of what happened to Legend. He just knows things didn't turn out very well for him. Lunatic would have to be the one to tell him about the beatings and I just can't see him doing that anyway. Yuri would be more likely to tell him he killed Legend, but not give the full reason for it.

Anh_Minh · 2011-07-17, 14:48

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Originally Posted by Nightengale

I don't think it's that simple for Kotetsu. It's pretty clear that there are careers and life after superhero retirement, but that realistic notion of 'moving on' doesn't necessarily apply to everyone.

Kotetsu's life literally revolved around being a superhero. His aspirations, dreams, fuel... To him, it's not just a job, but a living dream.

Yeah. More than that... It was his reason for living. As he explained to that kid (the one who controlled statues), he'd also experienced problems and rejection because of his power. Legend showed him a positive aspect of his power that allowed him to take pride in it. But if he can't be a hero anymore... Why has he endured thus far? What should he do with his life?

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

I'll commend this. There are a lot of ways Tiger could move on, but that doesn't mean any one of them would satisfy him. If this were an RPG, encouraging Tiger to one point or another would be a quest in and of itself.

And there's always the point that he, too, could fall into Mr. Legend's fate: does anyone doubt that the other heroes would give him a few captures to keep him in the game? With the Tiger & Bunny team so popular, does anyone doubt the companies and Agnes would be willing to let him stay?

It would be poisonous kindness. I bet everyone thought they were doing something nice for Mr. Legend as well.

I don't know. As you said, it'd be a pretty poisonous kindness. Wouldn't Fire Emblem and Rock Bison, at least, realize it and explain it to others?

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In a way, though, I think Yuri's mother was right: I think Mr. Legend would have recovered at some point. I think he would have gone back to being the man everyone respected, even without his powers.

Before or after he murdered her? He was pretty far gone.

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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Its Mr. Legend not Justice.

As I've said before Kotetsu has a knack for mentoring if he retires he still has an option to teach at Hero Academy or play coach to the second stringers.

Being good at it isn't the same as being satisfied with it, alas.

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I think one of the reasons why Maverick had hired Kotetsu was to mentor Barnaby to be a hero.

Lloyd's the one who hired him (or rather, bought his contract). I guess it's possible Maverick pulled the strings.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R

Guys... Mr. Legend was Kotetsu's childhood hero. Mr. Legend is likely the primary reason why Kotetsu decided to become a hero in the first place.

Also, do you know why I think Kotetsu was pretty blaise during the celebration ceremony being thrown for his teammate Barnaby? I think it's because while he was happy for Barnaby, he also hated the thought that his big hero Mr. Legend had his records broken.

I respectfully think that you're both underestimating how much Mr. Legend meant and still means to Kotetsu. Just look at Kotetsu watching old black-and-white tapes of Mr. Legend. Just look at how upset Kotetsu became when he heard that Mr. Legend's powers faded with age.

This is clearly a very touchy spot for Kotetsu, and to expect him to just accept the news of his hero's descent into wifebeating and a self-destructive end without even so much as engaging in passionate denial of it... no offense, but that strikes me as wildly optimistic.

Hey, I hope that you're both right. But I truly doubt it.

Yes, Legend is indeed important. But not to the point he would try to say it's alright to beat your wife.

That not saying there aren't bad times ahead. What he might do:
- refuse to hear the truth, refuse to believe it.
- become suicidally reckless, thus endangering other heroes as well as himself.

How bad do you think he'd feel if Blue Rose got hurt trying to save his sorry ass?

Dean_the_Young · 2011-07-17, 15:00

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't know. As you said, it'd be a pretty poisonous kindness. Wouldn't Fire Emblem and Rock Bison, at least, realize it and explain it to others?

Maybe, maybe not. Everyone lauded Tiger when he gave Antonio those points as a booster, after all. And Bunny still thinks that Tiger is willingly holding back to bolster his points, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what everyone thanks.

I mean, Tiger's dilemma is slightly different than Mr. Legend's. Mr. Legend was expected to stay at the top, setting every record: as much as being a hero, Mr. Legend needed to be seen as the best Hero.

Tiger's identity isn't tied to being the best hero, or even a good Hero: simply being a Hero. And, hey, if he catches just enough criminals to stay in the game...

It could go both ways. In fact, you could have an internal split between the Heroes: some who believe that if they conspire, they can help Tiger by keeping up a charade, and some who believe that the only way to help Tiger is to not help him. Tadah: inter-hero friction.

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Before or after he murdered her? He was pretty far gone.

Either, but I'd like to think (which is to say, if I were writing an AU) it would be before. Something like going right to the edge... and after something he can't take back, he realizes. Maybe crippled her, and then spends the rest of his life trying to repent and deserve her forgiveness.

F---, now I want to think of AU's for every character.

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Lloyd's the one who hired him (or rather, bought his contract). I guess it's possible Maverick pulled the strings.

I think there's more than a little: Mr. Maverick's possibly villainy beside (I personally doubt it), he's had more than his influence in Barnaby's life, and the Hero Team concept is unlikely to be any different.

In fact, if I were to speculate I'd suggest that Maverick specifically pulled for Tiger in order to give Barnaby the balancing mentor-figure to help Barnaby trust and move on.

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How bad do you think he'd feel if Blue Rose got hurt trying to save his sorry ass?

Worse than if he hit her, actually.

If next week doesn't 'fix' Tiger's mindset, I'd fully expect him to get another emotional body check because the point everyone realizes his powers are failing is the point that someone gets hurt protecting him (or he couldn't protect them).

Dann of Thursday · 2011-07-17, 15:00

I have to say that this episode does explain why Kotetsu got such a reaction out of Yuri when he mentioned the glove on his mask as well as why he has it on his mask at all.

I'm curious as to where Yuri's character is going to go in the end. He clearly still has issues about whether what he is doing is truly right, though if he were to admit that they aren't to himself then that would mean the same thing for what he did to his father.

Haak · 2011-07-17, 15:09

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yeah. More than that... It was his reason for living. As he explained to that kid (the one who controlled statues), he'd also experienced problems and rejection because of his power. Legend showed him a positive aspect of his power that allowed him to take pride in it. But if he can't be a hero anymore... Why has he endured thus far? What should he do with his life?

I don't think the fact that he's a Hero defines him that completely. He clearly had a wife and although we haven't been given all the details and I'm sure we can assume it was a happy marriage proving that there's more to him besides being a Hero. And he has a daughter that he clearly loves. There's plenty of purpose in his life. To not have would be a pretty bad Aesop imo. I'm pretty sure that's what it was going against with Barnaby. I do think it'll be a source of conflict, but I don't think it'll be that bad.

Anh_Minh · 2011-07-17, 15:18

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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Maybe, maybe not. Everyone lauded Tiger when he gave Antonio those points as a booster, after all. And Bunny still thinks that Tiger is willingly holding back to bolster his points, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what everyone thanks.

Yeah, but for Antonio, it was just a one-time thing. It's not like Rock Bison was losing his powers or anything - he was just in the same place as Tiger himself was the year before. What Barnaby and Blue Rose think he did was just giving him a chance to prove himself.

For Barnaby... There, too, it's not like he can't pull his weight. It's just working as a team to make the arrests, and giving the points to Barnaby (because he likes them more).

What you're proposing is different. I don't think Tiger would be satisfied with it, and I think the older heroes would see it.

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It could go both ways. In fact, you could have an internal split between the Heroes: some who believe that if they conspire, they can help Tiger by keeping up a charade, and some who believe that the only way to help Tiger is to not help him. Tadah: inter-hero friction.

That could be interesting, and indeed, it could go down like that.

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Originally Posted by Haak

I don't think the fact that he's a Hero defines him that completely. He clearly had a wife and although we haven't been given all the details and I'm sure we can assume it was a happy marriage proving that there's more to him besides being a Hero. And he has a daughter that he clearly loves. There's plenty of purpose in his life. To not have would be a pretty bad Aesop imo. I'm pretty sure that's what it was going against with Barnaby. I do think it'll be a source of conflict, but I don't think it'll be that bad.

A wife who was a fan of heroes... I'm not saying it's the only reason she married him. But still, he'll have a lot of thinking to do to redefine himself, if he can't be a superhero anymore.

ars89 · 2011-07-17, 15:20

Wow surprising news this ep. Kotetsu is lucky to be alive. Finally he's going to visit his daughter next ep! Maverick got even more shadier.

Dann of Thursday · 2011-07-17, 15:28

As someone else has mentioned, next episode could possibly be where Kotetsu comes to some sort of conclusion about what he needs to do. It certainly has that sort of vibe to it anyway, though perhaps not since that still leaves 8 or so episodes. Unless episodes after 17 deal with Kotetsu adjusting to whatever decision he may come to while also dealing with Lunatic and whoever else.

One of the biggest problems is Hero TV itself, though I wouldn't bet on it having anything big happening to it.

-KarumA- · 2011-07-17, 15:37

Lots of speculation going on right now, no news or anything.
Let me sum some things up of what's going on right now;

Speculation on Barnaby's memories being altered by Maverick is one thing;
- Bunny started wearing a ring right after the 10 month skip
- the memories Bunny was seeing altered in detail all the time; it started with a guy in trenchcoat and Ouroboros signil on his hand to Jake.

Second speculation going on right now has to do with a possible role Jake is playing within this all; maybe losing a first power finishes with having a second power. Some people speculating that maybe contact with Jake caused Legend to lose his powers and now Kotetsu as well, maybe it is something transferable (or that losing powers for one means a boost for others hence why Jake had 2, however Bunny having no boost signs and this speculation being rather crazy makes me shake my head). I don't believe this one though.

More speculation on Kriem; we saw Kriem glow orange yet we have no idea what second power she has other than bringing dolls to life if they have one of her hairs.

Other speculation is that maybe Jake used to be a hero or Legend's partner. Also imo not possible; Jake was too much of an ass to be a hero.

At this point for me major factors are;
- what is Kriem's role in all this, her second power?
- the development of Jake's second power which has a lot of question marks; such as why use a gun in the Bunny flashback? It makes me think he might just have 1 power at that given time.
- Maverick's role in all this and Bunny's manipulated past.

Right now everyone still thinks Tiger is holding back for Bunny, poor Barnaby when he finds that journal. Tears will be shed.

Spoiler for what I think might happen next episode:

ReddyRedWolf · 2011-07-17, 15:38

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Originally Posted by ars89

Wow surprising news this ep. Kotetsu is lucky to be alive. Finally he's going to visit his daughter next ep! Maverick got even more shadier.

Yeah indeed lucky. I also thought if Kotetsu died right there due to stopping a serial killer Barnaby loosing partner after getting over his revenge streak would be bad.

Also if Kaede found out her father is hero if he died she'd question why Barnaby wasn't there backing up her father.

Guardian Enzo · 2011-07-17, 15:44

No way Kotestu goes rogue and turns into the monster Legend became. They're different people. Kotetsu wasn't blase at Barnaby's party because it was Legend's record - it was because Barnaby's success was being celebrated as Kotetsu saw his own powers slipping away.

I think this really is a metaphor for the aging process, and how hard it is to accept when our physical powers slip away from us. It will be a tough process for Kotetsu, but to think he'd follow Legend's dark path would be a total betrayal of the character as written. Again, I just don't think that's giving either the writers or the character enough credit.

-KarumA- · 2011-07-17, 15:53

Lastly adding to raise the episode's mood a bit

Spoiler for can't upload properly so for size:

Also major Tiger&Bunny event today, just over 900 groups are attending which is a lot.

TnAdct1 · 2011-07-17, 15:55

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Originally Posted by Triple_R

I have to say that I don't like where the series is going with this latest episode.

Do we really need another dark deconstruction this year? What's wrong with a nice mix of drama with an overall lighthearted and upbeat feel? Does everything have to be cynical and twisted, where very likable major characters are frequently made to suffer and endure torment? Everything action-oriented anyway. Slice of Life shouldn't be the only anime genre offering genuinely lighthearted and upbeat content.

I find this new direction very disappointing, especially after how pleasantly nostalgic I found most of the episodes immediately preceding this one (Episode 16).

If Sunrise intended Tiger and Bunny to be a superhero deconstruction, my opinion is that it shouldn't be pulling it this late in the game, well over half-way through the anime. Sure, you had slight elements of crass commercialism before this latest episode, but nothing even approaching what we're seeing now.

Remember, this is Sunrise who's doing the anime (aka the same company who did Mai-HiME).

Triple_R · 2011-07-17, 16:51

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Originally Posted by TnAdct1

Remember, this is Sunrise who's doing the anime (aka the same company who did Mai-HiME).

It's interesting that you raise Mai-HiME, because after thinking a bit more on this episode over the day, it occurred to me that this anime is developing in a fashion similar to Mai HiME. If so, I'm not too worried about the last episode being overly dark then.

Well, I'll try to be cautiously optimistic going forward.

It's just that Madoka Magica is very fresh in my mind, and is perhaps overly impacting how I can see this anime unfolding.

Reckoner · 2011-07-17, 17:35

Very good episode.

This episode should not come too surprising to anyone, because really, it was a long time coming with the character Lunatic. People don't go around proclaiming their twisted version of justice just cuz, it's usually related to something with the characters past and dark it was.

I'm also going to offer support to Kotetsu, it's just not in his character to go into the deep end fully like Mr.Legend. Too nice of a guy.

He's probably going to be depressed for awhile though.

Kaioshin Sama · 2011-07-17, 20:43

Based on the way the first season went I think the way this season is heading is that because Tiger was such a bro for all of the heroes and helped them out with their various troubles the roles will be reversed and now they'll all have to be a bro for him and help him with his troubles.

Also I thought at the very first episode that they made a particularly big deal out of him having to discard his original costume so I think he'll end up back in it somehow and that will be because Albert Maverick turns out to not be on the level and thus the costume will come to symbolize something disgraceful to the idea of a hero. Also I think it's possible that Barnaby might end up in a new costume as well.

Those are my predictions for the final 10 or so episodes.

Triple_R · 2011-07-17, 20:50

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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Based on the way the first season went I think the way this season is heading is that because Tiger was such a bro for all of the heroes and helped them out with their various troubles the roles will be reversed and now they'll all have to be a bro for him and help him with his troubles.

Also I thought at the very first episode that they made a particularly big deal out of him having to discard his original costume so I think he'll end up back in it somehow and that will be because Albert Maverick turns out to not be on the level and thus the costume will come to symbolize something disgraceful to the idea of a hero. Also I think it's possible that Barnaby might end up in a new costume as well.

Those are my predictions for the final 10 or so episodes.

What I bolded are fascinating predictions (the ones above it being safer ones, I think, and ones that I'm inclined agree with).

I'd find that turn of events pretty cool. For Tiger to go full-circle, and for Bunny to adopt a more classic-style superhero costume.

One idea I've actually slowly warmed up to is the idea of Maverick as a bit of an antagonist in disguise. Jake Martinez did a good Joker-esque villain... maybe it would be fitting, then, for Maverick to do a good Lex Luthor-esque villain...

Jeffry2009 · 2011-07-17, 23:20

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Originally Posted by TnAdct1

Remember, this is Sunrise who's doing the anime (aka the same company who did Mai-HiME).

Even who's done Both letdown shoujo anime like Idolm@ster Xenoglossia & The girl who leapt through space (2009) & so was Code Geass (Gundam 00 is included). - OFF TOPIC

MeggieMay · 2011-07-17, 23:43

Well the discussions been really getting interesting since last night when I posted

First, no matter what happens, I don't see Kotetsu turning into Mr Legend. They're two different people from two different times with different backgrounds and motivations. Also, people survives finding out there personal childhood heroes have clay feet all the time in real life without going nuts over it. One of the points of this show, according to its creators is to make a show that deals with superheroes as if they were real people. Real life people for the most part get over things like this happening. It takes time but they don't all go crazy and hurt themselves and others just because the person they look up to turns out not to be who they thought they were. IMO the way the story is going Kotetsu doing this wouldn't make sense. That happening can't be ruled out but it also isn't all that likely where its going either, IMO.

As for Kotetsu reaction to Bunny breaking Mr Legends record - I think that entire scene was meant to show Bunny thinking Kotetsu was taking it that way, while we the audience were suppose to realize Kotetsu was wrapped up in his own thoughts about his power loss problems and how to deal with it. I think next episode is about Kotetsu going home to figure out what he should do and that scene may play into something about Bunny's finding out about it which may not even come up until the episode after next weeks. Then again, the entire scene may not ever come up again - it's hard to tell what that was all about other than to show Bunny and Tiger don't know each other as well as they should (because Tiger learned at the end of the scene about Maverick being Barnaby's foster parent after these two had been partners for almost a year).

On the subject of Barnaby's changing memories - I'm not sure that's they are changing at all. I think instead we have a visual continuity issue going on with the artwork. Someone needs to check the BD/DVD release of the show to see if any of these discrepancies are showing up in that or if things are being fixed in the final version of the show. While it's fun to theorize on these types of things, it's just as possible the problems with Bunny's memories and/or the orange eye issue (among other things) are just ouroboros on the back of the collar bill red hearings (I'm hoping that isn't what is going on with the orange eyes but at this point, who knows?). In other words, someone messed up the TV broadcast versions artwork and the entire thing doesn't mean anything at all in the end other than the show was in a hurry and missed something that needed cleaning up

.

Finally, back to the issue of how Kotetsu is going to deal with his power loss. I'm still not sure his powers are going to go away for ever. Even if they do, does that really mean he has to leave the hero business? Remember, both Tiger and Bunny are using mecha suits to augment their powers and we have seen other forms of mecha used in this show as well. The mecha aspect of the show may be the direct connection to Barnaby's parents robotics plotline, as well. Just how the mecha fit into all of this hasn't been explored, though everyone's reaction to them makes it seem like they are a normal part of life (no one seemed surprised the mecha were holding the city hostage, just that someone was using them to do it). Or are the mecha in this show because this is a Sunrise studio signature and they're just there to be cool? Either way, Sunrise doesn't have to always do the same thing they did before. The theories that "Sunrise shows must kill someone before the end of them" or "Sunrise shows must end like other shows they've done like Mai-HiME, Code Gease or Cowboy Bebop" (Sunrise has done a LOT of shows and they don't all end the same way - just seems that way at times!) are just like every other fan theory - they may mean something but then again they don't have to mean anything - Sunrise isn't a single person outfit (to learn more about Sunrise just check out that ANN studio tour).

Anyway, I think there is a possibility that Kotesu could stay in the Hero game with an improved suit or by other means. All Kotesu needs to do is ask for help - something we don't know if Mr Legend did or not. Kotesu has more than one option here, than retirement or going crazy, so lets not lose sight of that. Also, I really feel there is a lot more to what went on with Mr Legend we've yet to learn. Jake's cryptic comment about Mr Legend dying keeps coming back to mind for me. Jake seemed to be hinting that things were going one way, but changed, when Mr Legend died. I thought at the time Mr Legend died a heroic death but the last episode says no, that's not what happened. Hero TV probably covered up how Mr Legend died but how did they spin that exactly to make things change? Also when Mr Legend met Kotesu as a child, he didn't seem to be part of Hero TV and going by Mr Legend's appearance in the last episode, his death did come some time after that incident (Mr Legends hair was totally gray by that point). What exactly was going on back at the time anyway? [An totally OT, was Mr Legend ever thin or in shape? We never seen him actually fit into his outfit in either flashbacks

].

Oh one other thing before I go. After I went to bed last night it dawned on me I missed on other thing Mr Legend and Kotesu might have had in common around the time they lost their power. Spoiler cover for yet another silly crack theory

Spoiler:

mechalord · 2011-07-18, 00:36

I think Mr. Legend freaked out before his second mutation could manifest itself. Mr. Legend probably beat Jake before Jake developed his mind reading ability.

This will probably be a key discovery. Mr Legend and Jake were probably going through the same problems but Mr. Legend kicks his ass in an old school street fight since he's a big dude. The file on the encounter was probably sealed because it showed Mr. Legend taking a ton of damage.

Jake goes to prison. In prison he loses his powers temporarily. Since he's sealed up in prison and under constant guard, he comes to accept the loss of his powers but wakes up one day discovering his powers came back stronger and he has an extra ability.

In reality, those who lose their powers end up acquiring secondary abilities and powering up to red aura.

Kotetsu will probably retire but then be forced back into action during some crisis. Right when the chips seem to be down, he manifests his new power. As a goober, he probably becomes Superman. When he manifest, he won't need any suits or armor.

Been done before in super hero fiction, too many times to count.

As for Maverick, he could turn out to pull an Ozymandias but I doubt it. He was probably the second best during Mr. Legend's tenure.

I think Maverick could have been Tony Stark and that Barnaby died the same night his parents died.

Barnaby could be Astro Boy. Being a genius, Maverick continued his friends' research and created a son for himself or reanimated the dead Barnaby. With the death of Mr. Legend and knowing the truth, he sought to create a cyborg with the powers of Mr. Legend... one that was the perfect hero. One driven by points and justice. Maverick could have also been a genetic engineer and just made him a test tube... an enhanced clone of Mr. Legend. Either way...

Barnaby is either clone, cyborg, or biological android. Come on... having parents the specialize in robotics, magic, or fringe science usually means you are genetically engineered or a robot.

Final showdown is with Superman Tiger vs Ultra Power Cyborg Barnaby.

"Don't do it Barnaby. We're bros. You're memories are fake but our friendship is real. All us heroes are your buds. You've done good. Don't make me kamehameha you to oblivion. Snap out of it. We've done good work as heroes. "

2011-07-17, 15:00	Link #884
Dann of Thursday WHERE'S...MY...COW???? Join Date: Dec 2007 Age: 34	I have to say that this episode does explain why Kotetsu got such a reaction out of Yuri when he mentioned the glove on his mask as well as why he has it on his mask at all. I'm curious as to where Yuri's character is going to go in the end. He clearly still has issues about whether what he is doing is truly right, though if he were to admit that they aren't to himself then that would mean the same thing for what he did to his father. __________________ By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes. "Nearly all men can stand adversity, if you want to test a man's character give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

2011-07-17, 15:20	Link #887
ars89 One-Eyed Dragon Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ, USA	Wow surprising news this ep. Kotetsu is lucky to be alive. Finally he's going to visit his daughter next ep! Maverick got even more shadier. __________________ My Anime List

2011-07-17, 15:28	Link #888
Dann of Thursday WHERE'S...MY...COW???? Join Date: Dec 2007 Age: 34	As someone else has mentioned, next episode could possibly be where Kotetsu comes to some sort of conclusion about what he needs to do. It certainly has that sort of vibe to it anyway, though perhaps not since that still leaves 8 or so episodes. Unless episodes after 17 deal with Kotetsu adjusting to whatever decision he may come to while also dealing with Lunatic and whoever else. One of the biggest problems is Hero TV itself, though I wouldn't bet on it having anything big happening to it. __________________ By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes. "Nearly all men can stand adversity, if you want to test a man's character give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

2011-07-17, 15:37	Link #889
-KarumA- (｡☉౪ ⊙｡) Author Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In Maya world, where all is 3D and everything crashes Age: 36	Lots of speculation going on right now, no news or anything. Let me sum some things up of what's going on right now; Speculation on Barnaby's memories being altered by Maverick is one thing; - Bunny started wearing a ring right after the 10 month skip - the memories Bunny was seeing altered in detail all the time; it started with a guy in trenchcoat and Ouroboros signil on his hand to Jake. Second speculation going on right now has to do with a possible role Jake is playing within this all; maybe losing a first power finishes with having a second power. Some people speculating that maybe contact with Jake caused Legend to lose his powers and now Kotetsu as well, maybe it is something transferable (or that losing powers for one means a boost for others hence why Jake had 2, however Bunny having no boost signs and this speculation being rather crazy makes me shake my head). I don't believe this one though. More speculation on Kriem; we saw Kriem glow orange yet we have no idea what second power she has other than bringing dolls to life if they have one of her hairs. Other speculation is that maybe Jake used to be a hero or Legend's partner. Also imo not possible; Jake was too much of an ass to be a hero. At this point for me major factors are; - what is Kriem's role in all this, her second power? - the development of Jake's second power which has a lot of question marks; such as why use a gun in the Bunny flashback? It makes me think he might just have 1 power at that given time. - Maverick's role in all this and Bunny's manipulated past. Right now everyone still thinks Tiger is holding back for Bunny, poor Barnaby when he finds that journal. Tears will be shed. Spoiler for what I think might happen next episode: Tiger realizes he is entirely powerless and can no longer function as a hero. We will see flashbacks of Tomoe in their hometown, quite possibly he made some kind of promise to her before she died about being the best hero there is which also plays a part as to why he is so depressed. So Tiger leaves, no one knows where he went. Bunny quite possibly breaks into his house and finds the journal, I bet he just left it on the table, and realizes what has been going on. We finally get to meet Kotetsu's brother I keep hearing people talk about and I am not sure about what will happen next. Will Kotetsu get one of those "you can do it Kotetsu!" speeches and find his courage back? I don't know. It will probably end with Bunny finding Kotetsu or Kotetsu going home and finding Bunny in his living room with the journal followed by angry Bunny thinking Kotetsu didn't trust him enough to tell him this after being partners for so long. I think that if Kotetsu went back to Kaede it wouldn't improve for him. Already she thinks of him as a father who can't even complete his promises to her. She wouldn't be able to bring him any comfort because she doesn't know what he is going through.

2011-07-17, 23:43	Link #899
MeggieMay Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004	Well the discussions been really getting interesting since last night when I posted First, no matter what happens, I don't see Kotetsu turning into Mr Legend. They're two different people from two different times with different backgrounds and motivations. Also, people survives finding out there personal childhood heroes have clay feet all the time in real life without going nuts over it. One of the points of this show, according to its creators is to make a show that deals with superheroes as if they were real people. Real life people for the most part get over things like this happening. It takes time but they don't all go crazy and hurt themselves and others just because the person they look up to turns out not to be who they thought they were. IMO the way the story is going Kotetsu doing this wouldn't make sense. That happening can't be ruled out but it also isn't all that likely where its going either, IMO. As for Kotetsu reaction to Bunny breaking Mr Legends record - I think that entire scene was meant to show Bunny thinking Kotetsu was taking it that way, while we the audience were suppose to realize Kotetsu was wrapped up in his own thoughts about his power loss problems and how to deal with it. I think next episode is about Kotetsu going home to figure out what he should do and that scene may play into something about Bunny's finding out about it which may not even come up until the episode after next weeks. Then again, the entire scene may not ever come up again - it's hard to tell what that was all about other than to show Bunny and Tiger don't know each other as well as they should (because Tiger learned at the end of the scene about Maverick being Barnaby's foster parent after these two had been partners for almost a year). On the subject of Barnaby's changing memories - I'm not sure that's they are changing at all. I think instead we have a visual continuity issue going on with the artwork. Someone needs to check the BD/DVD release of the show to see if any of these discrepancies are showing up in that or if things are being fixed in the final version of the show. While it's fun to theorize on these types of things, it's just as possible the problems with Bunny's memories and/or the orange eye issue (among other things) are just ouroboros on the back of the collar bill red hearings (I'm hoping that isn't what is going on with the orange eyes but at this point, who knows?). In other words, someone messed up the TV broadcast versions artwork and the entire thing doesn't mean anything at all in the end other than the show was in a hurry and missed something that needed cleaning up . Finally, back to the issue of how Kotetsu is going to deal with his power loss. I'm still not sure his powers are going to go away for ever. Even if they do, does that really mean he has to leave the hero business? Remember, both Tiger and Bunny are using mecha suits to augment their powers and we have seen other forms of mecha used in this show as well. The mecha aspect of the show may be the direct connection to Barnaby's parents robotics plotline, as well. Just how the mecha fit into all of this hasn't been explored, though everyone's reaction to them makes it seem like they are a normal part of life (no one seemed surprised the mecha were holding the city hostage, just that someone was using them to do it). Or are the mecha in this show because this is a Sunrise studio signature and they're just there to be cool? Either way, Sunrise doesn't have to always do the same thing they did before. The theories that "Sunrise shows must kill someone before the end of them" or "Sunrise shows must end like other shows they've done like Mai-HiME, Code Gease or Cowboy Bebop" (Sunrise has done a LOT of shows and they don't all end the same way - just seems that way at times!) are just like every other fan theory - they may mean something but then again they don't have to mean anything - Sunrise isn't a single person outfit (to learn more about Sunrise just check out that ANN studio tour). Anyway, I think there is a possibility that Kotesu could stay in the Hero game with an improved suit or by other means. All Kotesu needs to do is ask for help - something we don't know if Mr Legend did or not. Kotesu has more than one option here, than retirement or going crazy, so lets not lose sight of that. Also, I really feel there is a lot more to what went on with Mr Legend we've yet to learn. Jake's cryptic comment about Mr Legend dying keeps coming back to mind for me. Jake seemed to be hinting that things were going one way, but changed, when Mr Legend died. I thought at the time Mr Legend died a heroic death but the last episode says no, that's not what happened. Hero TV probably covered up how Mr Legend died but how did they spin that exactly to make things change? Also when Mr Legend met Kotesu as a child, he didn't seem to be part of Hero TV and going by Mr Legend's appearance in the last episode, his death did come some time after that incident (Mr Legends hair was totally gray by that point). What exactly was going on back at the time anyway? [An totally OT, was Mr Legend ever thin or in shape? We never seen him actually fit into his outfit in either flashbacks ]. Oh one other thing before I go. After I went to bed last night it dawned on me I missed on other thing Mr Legend and Kotesu might have had in common around the time they lost their power. Spoiler cover for yet another silly crack theory Spoiler: both of them had kids and Mr Legends kid went Next at that point. Could the loss of power be a temporary issue connected to Next's having kids who are about to break with their powers?? Could Kotesu's daughter be about to break with a power and his powers will return when that happens? Totally wacko silly theory here but I had to share

2011-07-17, 15:53	Link #892
-KarumA- (｡☉౪ ⊙｡) Author Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In Maya world, where all is 3D and everything crashes Age: 36	Lastly adding to raise the episode's mood a bit Spoiler for can't upload properly so for size: Also major Tiger&Bunny event today, just over 900 groups are attending which is a lot.

2011-07-17, 20:43	Link #896
Kaioshin Sama Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Neither Here nor There Age: 39	Based on the way the first season went I think the way this season is heading is that because Tiger was such a bro for all of the heroes and helped them out with their various troubles the roles will be reversed and now they'll all have to be a bro for him and help him with his troubles. Also I thought at the very first episode that they made a particularly big deal out of him having to discard his original costume so I think he'll end up back in it somehow and that will be because Albert Maverick turns out to not be on the level and thus the costume will come to symbolize something disgraceful to the idea of a hero. Also I think it's possible that Barnaby might end up in a new costume as well. Those are my predictions for the final 10 or so episodes.

2011-07-18, 00:36	Link #900
mechalord Deploying Funnel Cakes Join Date: Jan 2008	I think Mr. Legend freaked out before his second mutation could manifest itself. Mr. Legend probably beat Jake before Jake developed his mind reading ability. This will probably be a key discovery. Mr Legend and Jake were probably going through the same problems but Mr. Legend kicks his ass in an old school street fight since he's a big dude. The file on the encounter was probably sealed because it showed Mr. Legend taking a ton of damage. Jake goes to prison. In prison he loses his powers temporarily. Since he's sealed up in prison and under constant guard, he comes to accept the loss of his powers but wakes up one day discovering his powers came back stronger and he has an extra ability. In reality, those who lose their powers end up acquiring secondary abilities and powering up to red aura. Kotetsu will probably retire but then be forced back into action during some crisis. Right when the chips seem to be down, he manifests his new power. As a goober, he probably becomes Superman. When he manifest, he won't need any suits or armor. Been done before in super hero fiction, too many times to count. As for Maverick, he could turn out to pull an Ozymandias but I doubt it. He was probably the second best during Mr. Legend's tenure. I think Maverick could have been Tony Stark and that Barnaby died the same night his parents died. Barnaby could be Astro Boy. Being a genius, Maverick continued his friends' research and created a son for himself or reanimated the dead Barnaby. With the death of Mr. Legend and knowing the truth, he sought to create a cyborg with the powers of Mr. Legend... one that was the perfect hero. One driven by points and justice. Maverick could have also been a genetic engineer and just made him a test tube... an enhanced clone of Mr. Legend. Either way... Barnaby is either clone, cyborg, or biological android. Come on... having parents the specialize in robotics, magic, or fringe science usually means you are genetically engineered or a robot. Final showdown is with Superman Tiger vs Ultra Power Cyborg Barnaby. "Don't do it Barnaby. We're bros. You're memories are fake but our friendship is real. All us heroes are your buds. You've done good. Don't make me kamehameha you to oblivion. Snap out of it. We've done good work as heroes. " Last edited by mechalord; 2011-07-18 at 00:46.