Mother of Learning [Web Novel]

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by Breimn

New update soon, lookiing forward to it.
How much progress will they make this time?+

I'm not expecting much beyond simply finishing the restart. Maybe they'll check the inside of the orb, but unless there's some ultra-convenient preserved library within it's not that useful for their goals by itself.

[ices]

I'm expecting a scene where they to contact the Gate once again to question about this "orb" key they got.

[bludvein]

New chapter...

Orb was ignored almost entirely in favor of another gate assault. Seems like a setup for a rant from Taiven next chapter.

[Namorax]

That, or this will be some kind of trigger for Taiven.

Whether it will kickstart some kind of feelings for Zorian or will drive her to become an even better mage is still unknown.

[ices]

Aww, and now waiting for three more weeks.

About the simulacrum death at the end, imagine if that was the real Zorian. This would be really sad. Zach would continuing the restart without him. Taiven probably will blaming herself about it. And don't know how they would tell Kirielle about it...

Which once again, losing Zorian isn't a permanent thing. But, the scenario of him dying mid-loop probably will be a big loss for the team, his friends, and also his family.

[Blankdom]

After much delay, new one is up.

[sasuke706]

Not much of a chapter in terms of story progress.
Was mostly just relationship mending, and foreshadowing for more relationship mending.
I find it ironic that both Damien and Zorian don't even muse about dealing with their parents.

I suppose Zorian's also going to learn weird foreign spells and Zach has become an orb keeper.

Next time: probably a very awkward date that will turn out more to be two bros hanging out (because Taiven isn't exactly girly).
She won't consider going hunting in the dungeon with just the two of them to qualify as a date, right?

[Namorax]

I would be more interested in the reactions of Zorian's female classmates. There is probably more than one person who's interested in him, and considering that his school-simulacrum doesn't seem to spend much time with Taiven, it will appear to everyone as if they decided on that date out of the blue (which they kinda did).

The last chapter kinda makes me wonder if the relationship between the "children" and their parents will be resolved as well.
Not like Zorian can tell them to wait and open the portal to Kosh nillywilly. Might be interesting just to see their faces when they realise their middle son turns out to be an archmage while they were still fussing over Daimen.

[bludvein]

That might satisfy Zorian's ego a bit, but it won't repair their relationship. Zorian's parents really kind of deserve what they have coming, since from what we've seen 90% of their current family situation is their fault.

[ices]

Nice chapter. It's been a while we have chapter like this. Borrowing words from some folks on reddit,

... the appeal of using a time loop in a wholesome way to gradually understand people on a level deeper than you could if you only had one chance ...

[Namorax]

@bludvein:
I don't know... I think it is likely that Zorian will somewhat come to an understanding with his parents, or at least try to/be forced to.

He started to care about his sister, and all she did was to cause Zorian pain for a large part of the series. He is currently talking to Daimen, something I would consider a step forward for Zorian since he tried to not even think about his big brother whenever he cold.
Daimen will probably prod Zorian into interacting with Fortov just to learn what his deal is, and once he got around half the family, Zorian could just as well tackle the issue with his parents.

Sorry, started rambling again... what i wanted to say was:
We saw that his siblings had reasons for doing what they were doing. and chances are the same goes for their parents. We only have conjectures why they are doing the things they are doing, maybe they really think Daimen is making amistake, marrying into a minor house of nobles halfway around the world?
Maybe it has nothing to do with the things Zorian is assuming about the bragging rights?
Maybe they have a valid reason to marry off their daughter? Maybe they are forced to marry her off because of contractual/financial/blackmailing reasons?
We don't know, but I still think it is likely because why should Zrian stop with his sister and big brother when there is still some family to "reconnect" with?

Also, from a storytelling perspective, it would kinda make sense to me if the family issues are the side-plot for this last part of the story.
In the first act, the primary storyline was about Zorian figuring out "WTF is going on", while the side-plot was about exploring the school/loop and getting stronger.
The second act, he had to deal with the Red Robe issue (and Zack), while starting to interact with he people around him on a deeper level (like thinking about how to repay them for helping him, getting to know them better outside of school).
Now, in the third act, the primary issue is to gather the orbs and defeat Red Robe outide the loop.

Wouldn't the whole thing with Zorian's kinda dysfunctional family and how they find a compromise be a good sideplot for the finale?

[Darius Drake]

Originally Posted by Namorax

I would be more interested in the reactions of Zorian's female classmates. There is probably more than one person who's interested in him, and considering that his school-simulacrum doesn't seem to spend much time with Taiven, it will appear to everyone as if they decided on that date out of the blue (which they kinda did).

The last chapter kinda makes me wonder if the relationship between the "children" and their parents will be resolved as well.
Not like Zorian can tell them to wait and open the portal to Kosh nillywilly. Might be interesting just to see their faces when they realise their middle son turns out to be an archmage while they were still fussing over Daimen.

On the classmates side of things, that depends on how you determine "interested". Remember, before the timeloop Zorian hasn't exactly been the most... social of individuals, and so his classmates (excusing Akoja) only have had less than a month to develop proper feelings for him, and still can't be said to know him properly. It's not exactly as if there's enough time or focus on them to make it reasonable for us to believe that there's anything more than a schoolyard crush on a cute intelligent boy they don't know.

Honestly, it's more likely that the school gossips like Benisek will have more interesting reactions than Zorian's classmates.

As for Zorian's relations with the other three members of his family that we know he sees... there might be something for Fortov, but I doubt that anything's really going to happen to his parents other than a "Bugger off, you do not get to completely rule my bloody life, nor Kirielle's, just because you gave birth to us". And, quite honestly, we have easily seen enough circumstantial evidence to state that they're not exactly the best parents, particularly the mother. Sure, we know nothing about who they're marrying Kirielle off to, but we do know that Kirielle's banned from making art and won't get a chance to go to magic school because she's a girl and it's not something seen as beneficial in the noble society they want connections in. They have more than happily played favourites with their kids, not even attempting at hiding the fact that they are. And this is while knowing their kids well enough to purposefully make Zorian breakfast to make him irritated and more likely to say "No" to "their" request.

And while all that can mostly be pinned on the mother, the father outright teasing and leading teasing on Zorian to the point where he was uncomfortable with the thought of being an Empath due to it being a "girly" magic trait that his father would take as evidence that his prior teasing was justified says WONDERS about how HIS parenting skills. All of them negative.

Now, for Fortov, I've recently seen a possible reason for his "accidentally pushes the classmate with a massive crush on him into the bushes every month no matter what" deal that could, partially, fix his problems with Zorian. Not significantly, but enough to give him a starting point Zorian could work on:
- First of all, there needs to be a bit of schoolground that most people avoid due to the Purple Creepers, which may or may not be a popular confession spot due to nobody being around there.
- Secondly, either Ibery or Fortov (almost certainly Ibery) invites the other there to confess/invite to the school dance together. Alternatively, they are passing the Purple Creepers near the end of class when Ibery attempts to confess/invite Fortov to the school dance.
- Third, you have to assume that Fortov's friends can be described as assholes. I do not think that this is a large leap of faith, however.
- Fourth, Fortov's asshole friends play a "practical joke" on either Fortov or Ibery, probably pushing him into her either physically or magically, with enough force that she's pushed into the bushes while protecting him.
- Fifth, Fortov takes responsibility, possibly halfheartedly.

Originally Posted by bludvein

That might satisfy Zorian's ego a bit, but it won't repair their relationship. Zorian's parents really kind of deserve what they have coming, since from what we've seen 90% of their current family situation is their fault.

Honestly, we haven't seen his father, period. However, we can say that Zorian's defensiveness is just as much due to his father as anyone else based on what's been said about him in the story so far. And, given that the latest chapter outright says that Zorian's ranking of dislike for family members start with his father and continues to Fortov, and us knowing how much he DESPISED Damien, that's kind of... horrific.

Originally Posted by Namorax

@bludvein:
I don't know... I think it is likely that Zorian will somewhat come to an understanding with his parents, or at least try to/be forced to.

He started to care about his sister, and all she did was to cause Zorian pain for a large part of the series. He is currently talking to Daimen, something I would consider a step forward for Zorian since he tried to not even think about his big brother whenever he cold.
Daimen will probably prod Zorian into interacting with Fortov just to learn what his deal is, and once he got around half the family, Zorian could just as well tackle the issue with his parents.

Sorry, started rambling again... what i wanted to say was:
We saw that his siblings had reasons for doing what they were doing. and chances are the same goes for their parents. We only have conjectures why they are doing the things they are doing, maybe they really think Daimen is making amistake, marrying into a minor house of nobles halfway around the world?
Maybe it has nothing to do with the things Zorian is assuming about the bragging rights?
Maybe they have a valid reason to marry off their daughter? Maybe they are forced to marry her off because of contractual/financial/blackmailing reasons?
We don't know, but I still think it is likely because why should Zrian stop with his sister and big brother when there is still some family to "reconnect" with?

Also, from a storytelling perspective, it would kinda make sense to me if the family issues are the side-plot for this last part of the story.
In the first act, the primary storyline was about Zorian figuring out "WTF is going on", while the side-plot was about exploring the school/loop and getting stronger.
The second act, he had to deal with the Red Robe issue (and Zack), while starting to interact with he people around him on a deeper level (like thinking about how to repay them for helping him, getting to know them better outside of school).
Now, in the third act, the primary issue is to gather the orbs and defeat Red Robe outide the loop.

Wouldn't the whole thing with Zorian's kinda dysfunctional family and how they find a compromise be a good sideplot for the finale?

Honestly, I don't see Zorian reconnecting with his parents. There's just no reason to bring them into the story again at this point. The closest thing to them possibly caring was how Zorian was pulled from school, and given that Fortov wasn't mentioned I suspect that Zorian was right about his conjecture that the school never actually managed to get in contact with them might have had some validation. Either that, or Fortov, due to being a sub-par student who only managed to stay in school due to extensive bribes, wasn't considered worth mentioning.

As for justifying his parents... for what reason would they have for refusing Kirielle's artistic side while also practically refusing her books? Hell, the single thing that we've seen that we can give a "reason", as shoddy as this "reason" is, is possibly the reason why they don't want to send their daughter to mage school. And that reason is... because Witches (independently & unofficially trained typically female mages) are looked down upon and abused with their family members being targets. That's it.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by Darius Drake

Honestly, we haven't seen his father, period. However, we can say that Zorian's defensiveness is just as much due to his father as anyone else based on what's been said about him in the story so far. And, given that the latest chapter outright says that Zorian's ranking of dislike for family members start with his father and continues to Fortov, and us knowing how much he DESPISED Damien, that's kind of... horrific.

From chapter 35

Interestingly, this was the first time since he got stuck in the time loop that he had spoken to his father again. It only took a single snide comment about his 'weak, fainting son' for him to remember why. If he was lucky, this would be the last restart he had to interact with the man.

Granted it's only one offhand interaction, but it gets his personality out there. Not a pleasant guy.

[Namorax]

It is easy to forget that Zorian's family descends from a witchy background... there might be something to it: maybe the mother wants to avoid Kirielle becoming a witch or something? If Kirielle learns magic the chances of that happening would increase, but then why forbid the drawing?

To be honest, I can't think of any reason why they would possibly do that. Maybe there is some kind of witch-mafia that will leave them alone as long as they don't awaken their witch heritage?


On a sidenote: Did Zorian and Zach actually finish the quest for that one witch? The one where they hunt that gray hunter? I think they failed or something. I wonder when they have to get back to that... maybe one of the key is involved (or inside) her hidden cottage.

[sasuke706]

No, they never managed to figure out how to safely extract the eggs from the spider without, well, utterly destroying them.
They can fairly safely kill the spider if they want to, it's just killing the spider isn't working out.

Pretty sure they put it on the backburner to go do more productive, less infuriating things.
I think it was the realization that Silverlake probably attempted several times to get the eggs herself, essentially teaching the spider how to better deal with human mage tactics that was the abandon quest trigger.
Then again, the potions that can be made from the spider even when killing it are pretty helpful, so they'll likely try every restart anyway unless they have a tight schedule.

And about the family stuff, I'm pretty sure their parents just have too high expectations for them and want to force them succeed, and if that seems unlikely mostly ignore them for the most capable child.
This of course shows favoritism between siblings, creating cracks in the relationships between the whole family. The reason Fortov got pissy about Daimen is likely he's just plain tired of hearing about Daimen, living in his shadow, being compared to him no matter what he does, etc. This would of course lead to Fortov's mental image of Daimen to head toward a negative light that was likely just building up until then.

The father considers Zorian a frail Daimen substitute candidate at best, and it was mentioned that both parents were disappointed in Fortov's grades, where they finally gave Zorian slightly more attention that he didn't even want at the point.
Plus the whole threatening Zorian about his social anxiety (not actually that but whatever) was just about their public image as a family, since Zorian was clearly uncomfortable.

Kirielle's expectations are just to marry into another notable family to help expand their influence I imagine, and the same is likely expected of Fortov and Zorian, but to a lesser degree.
I find it more of a why waste time on teaching her to be a mage when she's just going to be a housewife, since their parents were against her even doing harmless drawing.
Their parents do seem to not like witches, but at the point they ignored signs of both Daimen and Zorian having traits from the witch lineage, I highly doubt they're trying extra hard to prevent anything.

So Daimen marrying into Koth, a foreign regime and not very popular to the natives, is a problem because they care too much about their family image to their homeland and expanding their influence.
It would cast a negative light on their image, since local hero forsakes homeland to marry into foreign land.
It's like those crazy parents that want their kids to grow up to be stars because THEY wanted to be a star but couldn't be.

[Namorax]

On the other hand, they would get a direct contact to an "exotic" market. Thinking of the economic side, being able to easily get Kothian goods to sell can easily make up for the "influence" bit, especially if Daimen gets to keep the Gate spell after the loop's end.

Maybe it's less about being stars... the Kazinskis might be rich, but that counts little in a society where magic bloodlines are everything. Daimen appears to be the "one in a million", the 'peasant' who founds a noble house like the Novedas due to the magic in his bloodline.
With that in mind, it makes sense that they would focus their attention on Daimen to make sure he has all the options in the world... but we shouldn't forget that Daimen also had a subtle influence on everyone around him. Maybe he influenced his parents more than he realised?

Either way, from their perspective, I can understand that the situation might look like as if their son (who could found a new noble house) suddenly decides to marry into another family (becoming little more than an in-law). Maybe they fear that Daimen got mentally influenced?

(Never forget the little girl with the mindmagic! You can never know when they sneak up on you to do their thing!!)^^

[Darius Drake]

Originally Posted by bludvein

From chapter 35


Granted it's only one offhand interaction, but it gets his personality out there. Not a pleasant guy.

I completely and utterly forgot about that.

Originally Posted by Namorax

It is easy to forget that Zorian's family descends from a witchy background... there might be something to it: maybe the mother wants to avoid Kirielle becoming a witch or something? If Kirielle learns magic the chances of that happening would increase, but then why forbid the drawing?

To be honest, I can't think of any reason why they would possibly do that. Maybe there is some kind of witch-mafia that will leave them alone as long as they don't awaken their witch heritage?

Being a "witch" is a VERY specific thing. It's kind of like being a Homemade Moonshine Maker. If you have the licences, you're allowed to. If you don't have the licences, then you're a criminal. Even if you're using the same equipment. In other words, Witches are followers of an outlawed practice of magic that's illegal because they don't bother to get magic licences. Everything else is just bull made up probably when the licences were being put into place in order to make it so that the local towns mages actually had to have the licences.

Originally Posted by sasuke706

No, they never managed to figure out how to safely extract the eggs from the spider without, well, utterly destroying them.
They can fairly safely kill the spider if they want to, it's just killing the spider isn't working out.

Pretty sure they put it on the backburner to go do more productive, less infuriating things.
I think it was the realization that Silverlake probably attempted several times to get the eggs herself, essentially teaching the spider how to better deal with human mage tactics that was the abandon quest trigger.
Then again, the potions that can be made from the spider even when killing it are pretty helpful, so they'll likely try every restart anyway unless they have a tight schedule.

And about the family stuff, I'm pretty sure their parents just have too high expectations for them and want to force them succeed, and if that seems unlikely mostly ignore them for the most capable child.
This of course shows favoritism between siblings, creating cracks in the relationships between the whole family. The reason Fortov got pissy about Daimen is likely he's just plain tired of hearing about Daimen, living in his shadow, being compared to him no matter what he does, etc. This would of course lead to Fortov's mental image of Daimen to head toward a negative light that was likely just building up until then.

The father considers Zorian a frail Daimen substitute candidate at best, and it was mentioned that both parents were disappointed in Fortov's grades, where they finally gave Zorian slightly more attention that he didn't even want at the point.
Plus the whole threatening Zorian about his social anxiety (not actually that but whatever) was just about their public image as a family, since Zorian was clearly uncomfortable.

Kirielle's expectations are just to marry into another notable family to help expand their influence I imagine, and the same is likely expected of Fortov and Zorian, but to a lesser degree.
I find it more of a why waste time on teaching her to be a mage when she's just going to be a housewife, since their parents were against her even doing harmless drawing.
Their parents do seem to not like witches, but at the point they ignored signs of both Daimen and Zorian having traits from the witch lineage, I highly doubt they're trying extra hard to prevent anything.

So Daimen marrying into Koth, a foreign regime and not very popular to the natives, is a problem because they care too much about their family image to their homeland and expanding their influence.
It would cast a negative light on their image, since local hero forsakes homeland to marry into foreign land.
It's like those crazy parents that want their kids to grow up to be stars because THEY wanted to be a star but couldn't be.

Except that there's no real evidence of high expectations being the reason for their preferential treatment. If anything, high expectations would result in them thinking highly of Zorian being willing and happy to sit down and study magic even in his free time. But, no, everything we've seen that relates to how the parents rank their children relates to the parent's ability to use them or keep face.

- Damien permanently moving so far away from the family business that there's no chance of him having interactions with it? That's a nope.
- Fortov being kicked out of school due to likely having ADHD (from our point of view)? That's a nope.
- Zorian not being able to go to church due to passing out, not being able to learn to play an instrument due to being tone deaf, and not liking fancy ego-stroking parties? That's three nope's in a row.
- Kirielle wanting to do art and learn magic? That's two nope's.

It also ties into how the kids were "ranked".
- Damien was almost everything they wanted from a kid, giving them face and winning them allies (until his choice of wife). Favorite child!
- Fortov is good at parties, deals with people well, fits in well with "high society" and doesn't cause them issues. Second favorite child! Even with the concentration issues.
- Zorian does not do well at parties, is seen to be the "cause" of several significant incidents (some of which probably would have easily been avoided if they actually cared about him), can't play music and all around doesn't fit in with high society. Why do we have this brat again? Oh right, we can't get rid of him.
- Kirielle... can be sold off. Anything else we don't actually know about how she and her parents interact.

Originally Posted by Namorax

On the other hand, they would get a direct contact to an "exotic" market. Thinking of the economic side, being able to easily get Kothian goods to sell can easily make up for the "influence" bit, especially if Daimen gets to keep the Gate spell after the loop's end.

Maybe it's less about being stars... the Kazinskis might be rich, but that counts little in a society where magic bloodlines are everything. Daimen appears to be the "one in a million", the 'peasant' who founds a noble house like the Novedas due to the magic in his bloodline.
With that in mind, it makes sense that they would focus their attention on Daimen to make sure he has all the options in the world... but we shouldn't forget that Daimen also had a subtle influence on everyone around him. Maybe he influenced his parents more than he realised?

Either way, from their perspective, I can understand that the situation might look like as if their son (who could found a new noble house) suddenly decides to marry into another family (becoming little more than an in-law). Maybe they fear that Daimen got mentally influenced?

(Never forget the little girl with the mindmagic! You can never know when they sneak up on you to do their thing!!)^^

For exports, the distance is too far to make it reasonable for them to sell there. The "exotic" factor is outweighed by the "expensive" factor by a few degrees.

Additionally, Magic bloodlines aren't everything in this world. The invention of Guns and the proof that they're useful in battle has greatly diminished the importance of Magic Bloodlines to the point where they're only important if the house has enough money to be considered a Noble House.

For Damien influencing his parents and others, it's more Empathic Manipulation, not Mind Magic Manipulation. In other words, he could pick up on bad emotions and stay out of their way, or pick up on good emotions and take advantage of them. Basically, it's like learning how to read people. This skill can be used to make your life a little bit easier, or it can be used to make people believe that you can talk to spirits. Either way, you're doing the same thing.

As for the little girl, I believe that she's going to be the explanation for how the bees are controlled.

[dragon1412]

Considering the case of Fortfov, it is pretty easy to see why he wouldn't get along with Daimen, remember what their parent talk about Fortfov and Zorian, Zorian have Daimen skill with Fortfov having the social ability. When you are going to grow only to get judged as part of your brother who literally get favored over everything. Of course it'd be bitter. I'd say Fortfov hate Daimen just as much, if not even more than Zorian, it's just that he is better at hiding his thought.

[Namorax]

Originally Posted by Darius Drake

For exports, the distance is too far to make it reasonable for them to sell there. The "exotic" factor is outweighed by the "expensive" factor by a few degrees.

Which is why I mentioned Daimen potentially keeping the Gatespell after the loop. Granted, there is no way for the parents to know any of that, but still. It should have some kind of influence on them... If the "distance"is just afew steps whenever the Gatespell is cast?

I don't think there are many merchants who could do the same, especially since all Gatemages would demand a hefty price for their service.

[Darius Drake]

Originally Posted by Namorax

Which is why I mentioned Daimen potentially keeping the Gatespell after the loop. Granted, there is no way for the parents to know any of that, but still. It should have some kind of influence on them... If the "distance"is just afew steps whenever the Gatespell is cast?

I don't think there are many merchants who could do the same, especially since all Gatemages would demand a hefty price for their service.

The problem with Gate isn't distance, but the requirement to have two skilled mages who know the spell casting it at once. Basically, what you're suggesting is to have Zorian be forced to submit to his parents desires and work his days as a significant part of a freight company for their benefit. Not going to happen. Because Daimen casting the spell on his own would do nothing.