The Genderbending of Haruhi Suzumiya [Spoilers Aplenty]

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Heatth

to Kyon's absurd rationalization.

I would have involved small bombs somehow, but Kyon wouldn't have even heard of Umineko, mostly likely... sad, that.

Originally Posted by Heatth

I just wonder how no one notice Yuki. It is really hard know it was Kyon, because he is "ridiculously normal". However Yuki is pretty distinct from other girls. Maybe some alien trick?

We can assume she was deflecting attention somehow, but I think it's more that she's just unassuming to most people anyway. It's just people like Taniguchi and those who are relatively close to her like her classmates, that really notice her.

Originally Posted by Heatth

Speaking in alien tricks, I just tought now, but why none of the Nagatos tryed the same thing Ryoko did to Kyon? Sealing some room and make it a crazy alien space?

That only worked because a) She had clearance, and b) No one else was around.

Yuuki can barely gain clearance for anything and Yuki doesn't want to attract attention to herself at all, which even with some kind of enchantment, sealing off a room would do.

...Is it fun for you to watch me try to come up with justifications for my plot devices?

Originally Posted by Heatth

Now I am curious about Haruhi's atributes Clary above the avarege in most.

Above average Str/Dex, average Con, huge Int, terrible Wis, enormous Cha.

Kyon would be Above average Str, enormous Dex, average Con, above average Int, above average Wis, average Cha.

I could do the others, if you're interested.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I would have involved small bombs somehow, but Kyon wouldn't have even heard of Umineko, mostly likely... sad, that.

Why not? Is Kyon we are talking about, he know many useless things. (what is Umineko, btw?)

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

We can assume she was deflecting attention somehow, but I think it's more that she's just unassuming to most people anyway. It's just people like Taniguchi and those who are relatively close to her like her classmates, that really notice her.

No one (beside Taniguchi) notice her becase she stay quiet and reading. But she is famous in her own classroom because of it. The point is people would notice a smal girl with purple/gray hair runing around chasing some mutant. Though an alien trick is a good explanation.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

That only worked because a) She had clearance, and b) No one else was around.

Yuuki can barely gain clearance for anything and Yuki doesn't want to attract attention to herself at all, which even with some kind of enchantment, sealing off a room would do.

Ah, make sense.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

...Is it fun for you to watch me try to come up with justifications for my plot devices?

Yes it is ^^ Sorry for that

However, I think what I do here is somewhat usefull. May help you to realise some little thing and avoid an unintentional Fridge Logic. Some writers I know say that is useful having a critical reader.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Above average Str/Dex, average Con, huge Int, terrible Wis, enormous Cha.

Kyon would be Above average Str, enormous Dex, average Con, above average Int, above average Wis, average Cha.

I could do the others, if you're interested.

Yes, I am. I agree with that, though I don't know if Kyon has so big Dex.

[Tyabann]

As an aside, I added a bit to my last and to Cat and Mouse.

The Cat and Mouse one is far more important.

Originally Posted by Heatth

Why not? Is Kyon we are talking about, he know many useless things. (what is Umineko, btw?)

Game series released relatively recently. If Haruhi takes place in 2004-2005, like I think it does, he wouldn't have heard of it.

Originally Posted by Heatth

No one (beside Taniguchi) notice her becase she stay quiet and reading. But she is famous in her own classroom because of it. The point is people would notice a smal girl with purple/gray hair runing around chasing some mutant. Though an alien trick is a good explanation.

Nagato probably has lightish brown hair... anime hair colors don't exist, remember.

As a result, from a distance, she's just a slightly short girl who leaves no impression. Kyon, on the other hand, leaves more of an impression because of his overwhelmingly normal appearance, if not personality.

Originally Posted by Heatth

However, I think what I do here is somewhat usefull. May help you to realise some little thing and avoid an unintentional Fridge Logic. Some writers I know say that is useful having a critical reader.

Well, it is useful, thank you.

Originally Posted by Heatth

Yes, I am. I agree with that, though I don't know if Kyon has so big Dex.

The boy dodges both Ryoko and a firework. Neither should be easy for someone with ordinary dexterity.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

As an aside, I added a bit to my last and to Cat and Mouse.

The Cat and Mouse one is far more important.

Ah, I will give a look then

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Game series released relatively recently. If Haruhi takes place in 2004-2005, like I think it does, he wouldn't have heard of it.

True. Though I always believe it takes place in 2010 (because of the 07/07/07). I don't want to enten in thes discussion, however, kinda pointless. So les just say t is a pitty he couldn't talk about bombs.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Nagato probably has lightish brown hair... anime hair colors don't exist, remember.

Well, most of the strange hairs are from the aliens (except from Tsuruya, but she is also strange). However, wasn't her hair said to be gray (in the novels, I mean)? It is not really anime hair, unusuall, but far from impossible.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

As a result, from a distance, she's just a slightly short girl who leaves no impression. Kyon, on the other hand, leaves more of an impression because of his overwhelmingly normal appearance, if not personality.

Wait, so Kyon drwa atention by not drwaing atention? I believe Kyon draw more atention to the readers/players/viewers, but not to people of his own universe. (the joke is good, however, so I am not really complaining )

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Well, it is useful, thank you.

You are welcome (so, can I continue to bother you? )

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

The boy dodges both Ryoko and a firework. Neither should be easy for someone with ordinary dexterity.

Yeah, but enormous? I believe his Wis is bigger, for exemple. (also, he has to have above avarage Char. Every girl fall for him after all ). However, these are really big feats.

[scify]

Originally Posted by Heatth

I just wonder how no one notice Yuki. It is really hard know it was Kyon, because he is "ridiculously normal". However Yuki is pretty distinct from other girls. Maybe some alien trick?

Magical-girl glamer, obviously.

Edit: In reference to Kaisos's stats, I'm getting this impression:

Haruhi: Str: 12, Dex: 12, Con: 10, Int: 19-20, Wis: 6, Cha: 20+

Kyon: Str: 12, Dex: 18, Con: 10, Int: 12, Wis: 12, Cha: 10, Comeliness: 16 (Yes, I play with 1970's era UA rules. Suck it.)

I'm not sure about Haruhi's Wisdom being unusually low... it's more like she has a above average wisdom with a character flaw for being a little too willing to accept explanations that appeal to her interests.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Heatth

Well, most of the strange hairs are from the aliens (except from Tsuruya, but she is also strange). However, wasn't her hair said to be gray (in the novels, I mean)? It is not really anime hair, unusuall, but far from impossible.

As I recall, only Haruhi's (black) and Mikuru's (brown) hair colors are ever stated in the novels.

Originally Posted by Heatth

Yeah, but enormous? I believe his Wis is bigger, for exemple. (also, he has to have above avarage Char. Every girl fall for him after all ). However, these are really big feats.

Cha is force of personality, not always attractiveness. Kyon only has the former in GAR Mode, which is like Barbarian Rage except for Cha instead of Str.

And Kyon's Wis isn't HUGE. The crap he comes up with when forced to come up with it is stupid. (Haru-haru, anyone?)

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

As I recall, only Haruhi's (black) and Mikuru's (brown) hair colors are ever stated in the novels.

I looked for I didn't find anything in her introduction, so you must be right.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Cha is force of personality, not always attractiveness. Kyon only has the former in GAR Mode, which is like Barbarian Rage except for Cha instead of Str.

And Kyon's Wis isn't HUGE. The crap he comes up with when forced to come up with it is stupid. (Haru-haru, anyone?)

The Car part was a joke you know.

Though Kyon is very perceptive. He can notice small things all time, like Yuki expression and the Mistry on the Lone Island. Is more he is lazy and like to lie to hinself. (what is haru-haru?)

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Haru-haru was intentionally bad, though. The point was to give her a nickname she would rather obviously hate.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Haru-haru was intentionally bad, though. The point was to give her a nickname she would rather obviously hate.

It's still silly. =P

Eh, whatever. He IS really perceptive though, you're right. So high Wis.

Originally Posted by Heatth

(what is haru-haru?)

Oh dear.

[SgtHydra]

Originally Posted by scify

Magical-girl glamer, obviously.

Edit: In reference to Kaisos's stats, I'm getting this impression:

Haruhi: Str: 12, Dex: 12, Con: 10, Int: 19-20, Wis: 6, Cha: 20+

Kyon: Str: 12, Dex: 18, Con: 10, Int: 12, Wis: 12, Cha: 10, Comeliness: 16 (Yes, I play with 1970's era UA rules. Suck it.)

I'm not sure about Haruhi's Wisdom being unusually low... it's more like she has a above average wisdom with a character flaw for being a little too willing to accept explanations that appeal to her interests.

To add a touch of Fallout to this, I'd clock Kyon's perception as being maxed out (10 for a Fallout 3 player... but you obviously have a different cap...) with Haruhi's perception as being around 4.

I don't know why, but Haruhi can't quite seem to just notice the little things.
The girl has blinders, it would seem. Which is hilarious, though considering she's allegedly logical internally, it makes sense (if in a dubious manner).

And I'd note the slight loss of focus, but that's par for the course, if I remember this forum right.

[scify]

Originally Posted by SgtHydra

To add a touch of Fallout to this, I'd clock Kyon's perception as being maxed out (10 for a Fallout 3 player... but you obviously have a different cap...) with Haruhi's perception as being around 4.

I was going off the D&D system, but that's mainly because it's the one that instantly jumps into my head when character statistics are mentioned.

I don't know why, but Haruhi can't quite seem to just notice the little things.
The girl has blinders, it would seem. Which is hilarious, though considering she's allegedly logical internally, it makes sense (if in a dubious manner).

That's what I was getting at with the character flaw bit... she is normally fairly perceptive and has a keen mind, but also has a very particular worldview that rather powerfully colors what she takes notice of and how she thinks about it.

The other reason I argue against the low wisdom is she doesn't come close to any of the classic examples of low Wisdom characters. She's just... quirky.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

I give up trying to point out that Haruhi would have to be denser than a neutron star to truly be as oblivious as she seems. The Brigade, Nagato and Kyon especially, are absolutely horrible at actually keeping things from her.

[Tyabann]

Exactly.

Low-Wisdom characters can be based around 'forgetful', but I've mostly seem them as 'insane', 'lacking common sense' and 'oblivious', all of which Haruhi is.

[otai]

What would be Sasaki's wisdom score? She behaves with more common sense, but being Haruhi's nemesis means flaws in her conformist philosophy is going to be played up for the plot.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by otai

What would be Sasaki's wisdom score? She behaves with more common sense, but being Haruhi's nemesis means flaws in her conformist philosophy is going to be played up for the plot.

Sasaki has no Cha as a trade off for having more Wis. I can't think of anyone with less force of personality than Sasaki.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Sasaki has no Cha as a trade off for having more Wis. I can't think of anyone with less force of personality than Sasaki.

Kyon? It probably how he seens to be to most. I mean, he aparent to be just like Sasaki. This is also the point isn't it?

Of course, us, as readers, know how awesome he is. But I doubt Taniguchi, Kunikida or even Mikuru and Itsuki (when they first met) know this.

[otai]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Sasaki has no Cha as a trade off for having more Wis. I can't think of anyone with less force of personality than Sasaki.

Not too big of a difference though. She has the ability to charm 8/10 men, according to Itsuki. Her lower physicals would make up for the difference, being a normal girl compared to Haruhi's freakish abilities.

[Tyabann]

Again, I don't like the idea of Cha as attractiveness/looks. Tying a mental stat to a physical attribute seems pointless... unless you houserule that you have to roll Bluff checks to seduce people.

I digress.

The point is that Sasaki is ridiculously unassuming and does what she's told, only going with the flow.

Reminds me of Doc Manhattan. Of course, Yuki also reminds me of Doc Manhattan, but...

[otai]

I'd say it's not just her looks. She seems to handle people really well; for examples, she keeps better contact with their middle school friends than Kyon, and even tries to manage the seating arrangements for the sake of that guys secret crush. She has that same kind of socialability as Ryoko; both should have a higher Cha than say, Mikuru or even, Tsuruya.

[Tyabann]

I don't know if social skills should be under Cha or Wis... probably Cha, you're right.

...Maybe Haruhi and Sasaki have the exact same stats?