(L) Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate (Love, Election, and Chocolate)

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by RDF2050

You can't be sure it will be a Yuuki x Chisato ending if the anime has not finished yet. The director can change the outcome at any moment and decide who end with Yuuki or worst get a School Days type of ending

Yeah true.. the probability for a Yuukix Chisato is still pass 70% for me...

The chance the director will change the ending is... 20% and the School days is around 5%... It's my opinion.

But I'm sure of 90% rage in the Satsuki faction if that happens....

[Arya]

Wow, what an enjoying episode!!

Well, as many posters as already pointed out the whole over 10 year chocolate thing is way too abnormal to overlook it. I understand that Chisato relied on Oojima for herself sake, but that should strongly imply how Oojima has been forcing himself to stay by her side by that. So I couldn't buy what the whole first part of the episode seemed to imply, namely that he endured all this time in the name of love. Well, I could in some other stories, but not in this one.

Because on the other side of the ring we have a girl who apparently never forced herself into Oojima, she talked about it (the kiss) but she didn't (Chisato, Hazuki, Mouri and even Michiru did in a way or another, ops I was forgetting Mifuyu). She never forced him doing anything, but instead she gave him another point of view of the same matter (about presenting himself as a candidate), she even never questioned him about how shallow his causes were and are, but instead showed how a serious matter the elections are or can be.
Basically we have one girl who has been slowing down him, unwillingly, but still, and another who helps him growing up. To sum it up I'm not saying that Oojima can't choose Chisato, I'm more questioning which would be the message the writers want to say choosing Chisato over Satsuki.

Spoiler for Shuffle!:

Basically that's the same feeling I got when watching Shuffle! Asa was the right choice to me, she was the one who let the MC be himself as Satsuki is letting Bakajima be himself now. What I'm worried about now, and I have been worrying since relentlessflame wrote about the writer being the same of Shuffle!, is that he wants to redeem himself for what he has done to Kaede

From anther point of view it would be a bit not fair, given the three themes kind of title, that "Chocolate" theme eats "Love" one in the end Chocolate is such a big issue that deserves being in the title as much as "Election", but what about "Love" if Chisato will be the chosen one? A complain that I would address again to the writers, because so far they has done a very good job combining the election plot with the harem/triangle /fated love and building up the anticipation episode after episode. Each week I had to wait entire 24 hours to watch the show, watching instead this 3D constantly increasing its post counter

So, even if I should say that Satsuki has better chances given what I've said above, sadly I still see Chisato having the odds, as I've been seeing her from the start



Btw, I couldn't understand what the odds were for the elections, it seemed that Satsuki was in the lowest position and Oojima was on the top of the chart.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Arya

but what about "Love" if Chisato will be the chosen one?

...please, Either it's Brocom Love or Real Love... its still Love.... and that's the reason behind it or at least it significies another form of Love... :eyebrow

[Triple_R]

To be fair to Oojima, I can completely understand him taking pity on Chisato and going along with the chocolate ritual. I mean, it is chocolate - Most people like the taste of chocolate, in my experience, so Oojima probably saw it as a nice little treat that had the good side-effect of also comforting his childhood friend.

And I can kind of understand one thing leading to another leading to another in this scenario, but honestly, I'm with Reckoner here. I don't think it's healthy at all for this dynamic to be allowed to continue into adulthood, and if Chisato enters into a romance with Oojima then her dependency on him should only increase, logically speaking.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I have to be frank here - I'm amazed at how anybody can be supportive of Oojima-Chisato at this point, at least as far as the anime is concerned.

That was too much fun of a read.

Essentially, it boils down to this. The Chisato supporting game players who loves her no matter what is presented in the anime, and the majority of anime only viewers who thinks Chisato is the craziest thing since School Days due to what is shown in the anime. If you only go by what is shown in the anime, then yes, it is hard to support Chisato. However, you will notice her supporters are all essentially basing it on the game. I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but this is how I see it.

Personally, Chisato started out as much least favorite lead girl, but I was okay with her at first if she ended up the final choice. However, as of the last few episodes, my stance has now changed to anyone else besides her. She is beyond redemption at this point. Before it was just extreme jealousy. Now it is psychotic behavior. She really does need help, but the anime will probably not provide that for her. She will eventually figure it out herself, miraculously, or Yuuki will do something so amazing that she will become better. We will have to see.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

...please, Either it's Brocom Love or Real Love... its still Love.... and that's the reason behind it or at least it significies another form of Love... :eyebrow

I wasn't questioning about the kind of love, since well love is blind , but since the show seems to have three main themes, having Chisato as the chosen one would mean having the love theme as a sub part of Chocolate one instead of being a "real" theme itself. Don't know if I explain myself but it's a bit late here so my skills are worsening quickly

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

However, you will notice her supporters are all essentially basing it on the game. I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but this is how I see it.

Excuse me... I ain't playing the game for you information.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Now it is psychotic behavior. She really does need help, but the anime will probably not provide that for her.

You wouldn't say that unless you have experience sitting with psychotic patients...

You should understand that... and claiming she's psychotic.. now she needs more of your understanding...

I remind you I've been bitten by a psychotic patient before but I never, ever felt disgusted but is only pity for why they have to experience them...

I believe Chisato see Yuuki both as a love interest and a way of coping for he brother's death.,. Yuuki understands that... that why he stayed with her all this time... He understands what she was going through. If it's pity, I want to kick him for being stupid but love I'll praise him... Episode 10 showed what Yuuki is keeping in his heart.. HE WANTED CHISATO TO SEE HIM AS YUUKI AND CHISATO SHOULD MANAGED TO LET GO OF THE PAST CAUSE ITS BRAKING HIM ALREADY... IF THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN>>> NO PROGRESS WOULD HAPPEN BETWEEN THEM AND CAN"T FULLY ACCEPT HER LOVE FOR HIM......

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

We will have to see.

At least we agree on this...

Again.. she is still having "post traumatic syndrome" and not Love disorder.. or whatever it is.... She needs your understanding and not insults....

[Snuffle]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

The Chisato supporting game players who loves her no matter what is presented in the anime, and the majority of anime only viewers who thinks Chisato is the craziest thing since School Days due to what is shown in the anime. If you only go by what is shown in the anime, then yes, it is hard to support Chisato. However, you will notice her supporters are all essentially basing it on the game. I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but this is how I see it.

Lol wut? Seriously? That's interesting because...

Spoiler for Chisato's personality comparison Game vs Anime:

Chisato is worse in the game. Just check out the game thread to see all my complaints about her.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Arya

I wasn't questioning about the kind of love, since well love is blind , but since the show seems to have three main themes, having Chisato as the chosen one would mean having the love theme as a sub part of Chocolate one instead of being a "real" theme itself. Don't know if I explain myself but it's a bit late here so my skills are worsening quickly

Yep, I wondered about that, too. If Chisato is "Chocolate" many someone else is "Love"?

I strongly disagree with the notion that the plot would "collapse" if Yuuki and Chisato don't wind up together. If anything, as the anime has been constructed there's no way for the two of them to end up together without it being disturbing and less than credible. Sure, she needs some resolution to her traumas - but that doesn't mean she needs to end up romantically linked to the guy she's had this incredibly dysfunctional relationship with. Frankly, dating Yuuki is the worst possible thing for the both of them - there's way too much dysfunction there for that to work. They both need to be in a relationship with other people and get past all the complicated baggage they have with each other. Maybe after college, if they're still unattached (and she hasn't completely gone out where the buses don't run).

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

The Chisato supporting game players who loves her no matter what is presented in the anime, and the majority of anime only viewers who thinks Chisato is the craziest thing since School Days due to what is shown in the anime. If you only go by what is shown in the anime, then yes, it is hard to support Chisato. However, you will notice her supporters are all essentially basing it on the game. I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but this is how I see it.

I don't think there are actually are very many game players in this thread in the first place. Some of the Chisato fans may have spoiled themselves on parts of the game in order to see how her romance can work out (I've had a few different people contact me to ask me how it gets resolved in the game), but as I've said over and over, this anime is following a super-route, and isn't following the game. Rather than being "based on the game" or anything, I think those who most strongly support Chisato simply prefer her as a heroine, and believe that a relationship can work out. It's an emphasis on the potential for resolution, while others are emphasizing the significance of the dilemma.

People who are focusing on the problem think that it's too significant and troubling to be overcome so quickly. People who are focusing on the resolution believe that this resolution is more important than the problem, and that a happy ending will still cause everything to work out for the couple.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

People who are focusing on the problem think that it's too significant and troubling to be overcome so quickly. People who are focusing on the resolution believe that this resolution is more important than the problem, and that a happy ending will still cause everything to work out for the couple.

well, I like this one better.... at least this one's neutral

[Key Board]

I've followed quite a few eroge adaptations.

I'm going to say that knowing the game beforehand is actually the WORST way to watch a show adapted from an eroge.

eroge players often have the wrong mindset when it comes to anime adaptations. They do not see character chemistry. They see flags. Most flags = that girl chosen for the ending route Wheee!.

But it doesn't matter if someone has 9 flags with a girl or not. What matters if he actually loves her romantically or not.
And I think this was demonstrated somewhat decently in Shuffle.

Also, this is a question that should be directed at his heart, not his penis.

.. which I admit, is very hard to differentiate when you're a hormonal teenager of a main character.

[RegalStar]

I really see "psychotic" or the like being thrown around a lot. I don't think it means what you guys think it means. She simply has a mental trauma, but beyond that she is fine as a person. She brings about the whole food club and keeps it together, and does quite a lot of work to keeping Yuuki's campaign together as well.

And Yuuki definitely isn't being forced to care for Chisato (whether by himself or by her). If you recall, in episode 1 he gave a speech that is highly admirable of her (the one speech that got him into voted as a candidate anyways). He has a pretty strong sense of morals, and I doubt he can lie out of his teeth like that just to try and get out of a troubling responsibility. And he clearly stated in this episode that he still wants to stay by her, just as himself and not Daiki.

Their relationship certainly has the potential to work out if they have the will to make it to. It may or may not come to be (although if I know anything about fiction, it will), and you may or may not perfer it to be so, but there's no denying the potential is there.

Also for that matter, I'm not a game player either. I can't read Japanese well enough to play VNs, so I'm still waiting for either a Chinese or English translation to come out.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Yeah true.. the probability for a Yuukix Chisato is still pass 70% for me...

The chance the director will change the ending is... 20% and the School days is around 5%... It's my opinion.
:

If this wasn't the same guy who directed and is known for the piece known as Shuffle, I'd have a better time believing that. In fact....

Spoiler for Shuffle spoiler:

While Rin's relationship with Asa was a lot more established to what Yuuki's currently is to Satsuki, Kaede pretty much pulled a VERY similar move that Chisato did, clinging to death on the MC, literally. Only difference is that Kaede was naked, but pretty much just like we saw then. And he was pretty much saying to Kaede the exact same things, "I'll be here for you always" and stuff like that, but STILL left her.

So that 20% is too low imo, especially considering we have a MC who is a very intelligent and well rounded individual. We've had at least 4 people comment on how a relationship like this wouldn't be healthy for various reasons. Chisato is VERY dependent on Yuuki emotionally and might not be able to function if something happened to Yuuki. My question is, what makes you think Yuuki hasn't thought of all this himself?

IMO, he seems to be VERY cautious of a relationship for this exact reason, and knows there would be a lot of issues if he went through with it, otherwise he wouldn't have rejected Chisato the first time. And anime or not, I just can't see a Yuuki x Chisato ending as healthy for both of them in the immediate long run. What's refreshing for me is that Yuuki himself seems to have a grasp on this.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I've followed quite a few eroge adaptations.

I'm going to say that knowing the game beforehand is actually the WORST way to watch a show adapted from an eroge.

eroge players often have the wrong mindset when it comes to anime adaptations. They do not see character chemistry. They see flags. Most flags = that girl chosen for the ending route Wheee!.

But it doesn't matter if someone has 9 flags with a girl or not. What matters if he actually loves her romantically or not.

I would just say that I don't think this has anything to do with knowing the game, really. Whether game players or not, viewers often watch these shows to a) pick the heroine they like the most, b) try to determine which heroine will "win" based on the flags shown. Often putting the two together: to try to augment the "flags" they see to argue that the heroine they like the most has a good chance to "win" (or deserves to "win").

I agree with you that it's important to watch character chemistry. But, I would also say that chemistry alone can be deceiving and subjective (I'm sure that well-intentioned people in this thread will argue that Chisato has the best "chemistry" with Yuuki, and others will argue that Satsuki has the best "chemistry"). Even your concept of "does he love her romantically or not" is not so very clean-cut. (Again, flags notwithstanding, we had long arguments in this thread about whether Yuuki actually does love Chisato romantically.)

I think it's also important to understand the theme of the anime, and how that relates to the organization of the plot. You have to try to piece together the roles of the characters and see what the show is trying to say through the plot development. And you also have to try to look for subtle foreshadowing of the changes in the wind; this is probably the most important point in a lot of these shows. Sometimes a character may have all the chemistry and flags in the world, but the wind is actually blowing in another direction, and you just have to be sharp enough to notice it. But if the writers made everything too easy, it'd be too predictable, so I think things are sometimes left a bit obscure on purpose.

Originally Posted by Tenchi Ryu

If this wasn't the same guy who directed and is known for the piece known as Shuffle, I'd have a better time believing that.

Well, to be clear, he did not direct Shuffle, nor plan the story for Shuffle. He was an episode writer (one of many) who happened to write the two most famous Shuffle episodes. I think the commonality is in the way he writes character drama (again, see also Kimi ga Nozomu Eien and the two ef anime).

[BladeEntity]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Ryu

IMO, he seems to be VERY cautious of a relationship for this exact reason, and knows there would be a lot of issues if he went through with it, otherwise he wouldn't have rejected Chisato the first time. And anime or not, I just can't see a Yuuki x Chisato ending as healthy for both of them in the immediate long run. What's refreshing for me is that Yuuki himself seems to have a grasp on this.

Sadly it is an anime and just about anything can happen, so if they want Chisato to "magically" recover from her trauma she can.

And I have just about given up on who wins Yuuki in the end.

[MasterVampire]

You dont often see the childhood friend who is clearly damaged and this clingy who got rejected before, get rejected again and also slapped.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Originally Posted by MasterVampire

You dont often see the childhood friend who is clearly damaged and this clingy who got rejected before, get rejected again and also slapped.

LOL, that will be one hell of a "things to do to get chosen" list if she indeed wins.

[NoemiChan]

He just want her to snap out of it... its a dramatic scene anyway

[BladeEntity]

If Chisato wins, the writing for it to happen needs to really spot on without leaving any rooms for plot holes for it to be believable.