2011-04-16, 05:07 | Link #1161 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
|
Quote:
I believe more that Alto did not read the notes because Sheryl came back to concious that moment and uhm. after their bla bla they made love > no time to read mails Quote:
Quote:
I also think that Sheryl did not understood it wrong but sees where Alto struggled the whole time > which leads back to the discussions why Alto was indecisive.
__________________
Last edited by Father Hentai; 2011-04-16 at 05:34. |
||||
2011-04-16, 08:43 | Link #1162 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
|
@SS13
Quote:
Its probably more accurate to point out that her selfish side of agreeing to take up Ranka's place is not because she wishes to become Basara or Minmei (after all she was happy just doing charity concerts which did nothing for her career), but because she wants to be remembered when she dies, and in her mind she only has her songs left as a tool to do that which is why she chooses to sing. At this point in time in Sheryl's mind she doesn't have anyone by her side, who really understands what she's going through. At this point in time whatever ego she had has been shot to death. the selfless side of it was her wanting to provide some comfort for the citizens of Frontier. Because Frontier also doesn't have much time, just like her. Episode 23 I almost forgot that according to her profile Sheryl knows how to cook. Looking back though its is quite easy to cut yourself with a knife accidentally no matter how good you are at cooking. |
|
2011-04-16, 09:19 | Link #1163 | |||||
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
|
Quote:
Quote:
IIRC, they just take some group's work and edit it: no idea how good at Japanese their checker/editor is. Then again, most of the misses have been a matter of interpretation (or not worth a mention), so it's possible that they just weren't fans enough to actually want to understand the series thorougly. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wish I could get confirmation from someone, because he had a few interesting things to say about the final episodes...
__________________
Last edited by karice67; 2011-04-16 at 10:18. |
|||||
2011-04-16, 09:41 | Link #1164 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
|
Quote:
On another level, they are very distinct, however. I'd like to hear more opinions on the matter. Quote:
Quote:
I'd like that, so someone get her that confirmation.
__________________
|
|||
2011-04-16, 10:22 | Link #1166 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
|
Quote:
And I have no idea why I keep typing Animedia - it was Animage... orz I take it as a sign that I need sleep.
__________________
|
|
2011-04-16, 11:25 | Link #1167 | |||||||
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And oh, charity concerts are not as dumb as youi think. They can build some basic popularity without really nagging at ego ("Carrot loves you", anyone?). And Sheryl's ego is not dead. She accepted she is not the super known idol anymore... and is ready to go to great lengths to salvage what she can. And Leon's offer is just right here. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for status of Cyborgs, virtually everyone on Galaxy was one - in fact KITG manga states at some point they wanted top make implants mandatory (yes, alternate continuity, but still - and it's series canon they are "commonplace"). The point was that Brera's implant was specifically manipulated by Grace and allowedher to control him. As we are in ep 23 we get her ultimate plan - use Vajra to force everyone to have an implant like Breara has,and so control everybody - "death for resistance, slavery to supporters". So no, generally cyborgs are the norm, not the exception on Galaxy. Quote:
|
|||||||
2011-04-16, 12:09 | Link #1168 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
|
Quote:
At the same time I wonder where you come off saying that Sheryl's ego is still intact after episode 18, when she hit rock bottom. Especially when there is nothing to suggest that it is still there, but everything to suggest that it had died. I think its more that Sheryl wants a legacy to leave behind. And we do get some introspection on Sheryl's thoughts in the last episodes and they weren't on her ego but rather on the devastation that Frontier was going through. So again there is very little to support your claim, here. She wants to be remembered but that it. That's a very human desire, especially for someone who has believes that they are all alone in the world. Also Ranka wasn't doing well in her career when she first went around singing "Ninjinn loves you", it never made her popular, she was still essentially a nobody back then (its more of a meta example if anything the song was popular to viewers watching the series, but it wasn't a popular song in series itself). People tend to like to leave things behind eg: memories, songs, children, because they want some proof that they once existed. And even then you have Sheryl's thoughts which center on loneliness and death, none of that suggests that ego is a part of what's going on. Thing about ego is that it has to be based on something for it to be there, and with Sheryl she just doesn't have anything to base it on. |
|
2011-04-16, 15:01 | Link #1169 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
I can kind of see where SS13 is coming from here... back in episode 18 it was clear that the loss of her stardom hit Sheryl pretty hard. However I really don't get the impression her ego had much to do with the charity concerts she did. I think that had more to do with her finding a purpose for what was left of her life than it did with anything else.
While we're on that topic, this is a little late, but I'd like to respond to Swampstorm's response to my initial post on Sheryl Quote:
I've got company over, so thoughts on Episode 23 will have to wait. |
||
2011-04-16, 18:56 | Link #1170 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
|||
2011-04-17, 02:43 | Link #1171 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
|
Quote:
|
|
2011-04-17, 05:03 | Link #1172 | ||
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
On a side note, there is a neat (and disturbing) parallel between Sheryl's body deteriorating under Vajra infection, and Frontier deteriorating under constant Vajra attacks - in both cases the breaking point draws closer and closer. Quote:
Here we again see difference between Sheryl and Ranka. Sheryl is entirely realistic - her stardom is lost, her only hope is to re-create, and that she tries. Ranka, by contrast, seems oblivious to real situation, thinking that she can single-handedly solve the war. |
||
2011-04-17, 08:12 | Link #1173 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
|
Quote:
The difference from those previous cases is that she's dying in this one. She doesn't have much time left, and she knows this. She doesn't have the time to stroke her now practically non-existent ego. She only has a few months to live. That and she has some tact in that Frontier is going a bad situation right now and so she knows that its just in bad taste for her to do that during this time. There was a change in narrative from the the beginning of the series, and the circumstances are very different that, that's why she won't try to try to regain her old popularity. |
|
2011-04-18, 22:17 | Link #1174 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
I'm not entirely certain what to make of this episode due to potential translations issues. Has anyone got both the Central and Thora versions of the rooftop scene for comparison? (Also, does Alto seriously say that whatever they're drinking isn't alcoholic in the original Japanese? Going by how Sheryl reacted to the stuff it clearly was.)
While it's understandable for her to be thinking the way she is due to her mental state, I think Sheryl showed poor understanding of Alto when she suspected him of simply pitying her. This is Alto we're talking about. Since when does he pity others? It's not in his nature to give or accept pity. I can imagine in the past viewers may have gotten a very negative impression of Alto from this episode. For a while it almost seems as if he really is just pitying Sheryl and that he really wants to be with Ranka... and prior to the rooftop scene it almost seems as if he might break his promise and go after her. Given the magnitude of the promise he made to Sheryl I can imagine that leaving a really bad impression. Thankfully later events recast the scene in a different light. |
2011-04-18, 22:40 | Link #1175 |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
|
^
I don't have Central's, but THORA's is pretty accurate for that scene, IMHO. The whole conversation is fairly ambiguous, especially if you think they're just talking about the two girls at that point (hint: they're not). RC had a pretty good discussion about Alto for this episode, with some excellent contributions from AS members. Particularly recommend this one by musouka. (I wonder if she posted it here back when the episode aired...) edit: ah, and the alcohol thing. "Even though you might say that's not alcohol" (literal). edit2: and dunno if anyone has pointed it out before, but from 2059: Memories, Alto and Sheryl aren't living together. It's Sheryl's apartment and Alto's just visiting to prepare and have dinner with her. That's why the last thing she says in that scene is "You're not allowed to go home. Stay by my side (forever), ok?"
__________________
Last edited by karice67; 2011-04-18 at 23:56. |
2011-04-19, 02:21 | Link #1176 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
|
Quote:
Eh, they still are together. Although that is a downer, I had hoped that they'd have a few weeks living together at least. Of course after the end of the show they have years to do so...
__________________
|
|
2011-04-19, 03:01 | Link #1177 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
|
Quote:
Maybe because with the Macross Quarter gone (that's where Alto was living before, right?) and since Alto would refuse to live in the Saotome house everyone thought they moved to an apartment together. Is it the same in the light novels? I suppose they needed to clarify this because I can't remember anything that implied they were living separately, I even remember a short story from the first visual collection that takes place when people needed to use those gas masks and Alto told Sheryl to stay in the house until he can arrive but she sneaked out, that sort of implied they were living together. Well I guess Alto visited her frequently (and maybe stayed there some days?)
__________________
Last edited by Dash_Hunter; 2011-04-19 at 03:30. |
|
2011-04-19, 03:51 | Link #1179 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
|
Uhm. Is the discrepancy between living together and being together a big topic to discuss? Alto has free shelter in the NUNS barracks as he is integrated into the NUNS structure.
They are not married and they are a couple for not too long.
__________________
|
Tags |
macross frontier, re-watch |
|
|