Monster (Generic anime discussion thread)

[Secca]

I just watched 3 versions of the first episode by AKraze, AKeep, and Totan. Just going to mention some small things.

When the begining where they have the passage from the bible, I like the Type choice made by Akeep, it's really nice looking and quite dramatic effect. I like Totan version too where the translated passage disapeared, really cool effect and fit well.

As usual Akraze did a wonderful job on the opening credits, they translated everything, I really apreaciate it they did that. Akeep and Totan on the other hand manage to simulate the nice effect of the credits, which is really neat looking and fit in with the opening.

The subtitles, Akraze and Totan has the nice easy to read subtitles. Akeep has a strange choice of blood red color sub which a bit stand out.

The ending karaoke, Akraze version is simple karaoke with stylish Type. Akeep version has interesting effect like watching an old movie, really nice. Totan version, now this is really surprising, it's a really simple karaoke where it just slowly moving up, but it's just fit really well with the ending song and the background monster picture, very well done.

[dreamless]

watched episode 2, and they already start to cut out some stuffs from the manga... I guess it's quite hard to even put two chapters into one episode... mostly it's still quite faithful to the manga but then the scenes of Eva dating another doctor got cut... nothing very major stuff but I still think it's better to have those scenes intact...

[DemonEye]

I think that ToTan is doing an awsome job with Monster. And I will follow their fansubs.

[Fighter Volk]

Originally Posted by dreamless

and that makes it more ironic that

Spoiler for manga, possibly episode 2 plot:

after he sacrificed his career, his good living, his future to save that kid, and always try to comfort himself that he has done the "right thing" when he sees other doctors climbing up over him, it turns out that he has saved a monster.

Spoiler for the same thing thing that the spoiler above is about:

So did the twin sister know that the boy would become a monster? Haven't watched episode 2 yet... just tell me if they say so in that episode, otherwise tell me if she did ^^

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Fighter Volk

Spoiler for the same thing thing that the spoiler above is about:

So did the twin sister know that the boy would become a monster? Haven't watched episode 2 yet... just tell me if they say so in that episode, otherwise tell me if she did ^^

Spoiler:

sure, that's why she always says "kill him"... and ******MAJOR SPOILER**** she's the one who shot him to begin with...

[LordBrian]

Originally Posted by dreamless

However one thing I don't understand is at the start where the passage from the Bible is shown, they put a translation notes like "This is an actually passage from the Bible where the word beast has been replaced with monster and Ioanes with Johann" I don't quite understand do they mean the passage itself replaced the terms or that they (Soldats) replaced the terms.

We (Soldats) replaced the terms ourselves. As the Japanese stood, it was a simple matter to just use the direct Bible quote for that page, but as it was in Japanese, we were also free to retranslate it if we wanted. Retranslating it would have been kinda pointless, since our translation was pretty damn close to the English Bible quote (I forget which version we used, probably the KJV).

To stick closer to the spirit of the show, and so people would more readily get the references and how it applies to the show, we replaced the word "beast" that originally appears in the passage with "monster," and replaced "Ioanes" with "Johann" since they were far too similar not to, especially in Japanese (which is unsurprising, as both names probably refer to St. John, though I can't claim to be an expert on the origin of names).

As for the Revelation thing, I am aware that that's where the passage is found in the Bible, but I'm not really a fantastic kanji translator. The person who did translate the episode said that that's what the kanji says, so that's what I went with. I can't really see any way to edit Black Book into Revelation no matter how hard I try (though M-S's translation of "Apocalypse" would have worked for me after I saw it, but I didn't want to use it because 1] I had no way of knowing if it was correct, though I generaly trust M-S's stuff, and 2] if it WAS wrong, I didn't want to be accused of stealing translations. As a disclaimer, I have read the scanlated version of Monster, but not in a while, and I am making a conscious effort to not reread any (non-raw) chapters until after I have fully edited an episode, to avoid any such issues.)

One final note: we will be going with Johann as the spelling of that character's name, since multiple people have told us that it's the much more common German spelling of that name. So, the one time it appears in ep1 (in the prologue) is not a typo. ;)

[musouka]

Originally Posted by LordBrian

To stick closer to the spirit of the show, and so people would more readily get the references and how it applies to the show, we replaced the word "beast" that originally appears in the passage with "monster," and replaced "Ioanes" with "Johann" since they were far too similar not to, especially in Japanese (which is unsurprising, as both names probably refer to St. John, though I can't claim to be an expert on the origin of names).

I have a lot of respect for your group, but I think I would prefer it if...errr, how to say this. I think that the quote is important because it's not laying everything out for you. To replace words and terms to make it "apply to the show" just makes me feel like it's being spoon-fed to me. Just a little. Besides, as the series progresses, it becomes obvious what the quote means anyway. Urasawa wouldn't have chosen it had it not applied in the first place.

One final note: we will be going with Johann as the spelling of that character's name, since multiple people have told us that it's the much more common German spelling of that name. So, the one time it appears in ep1 (in the prologue) is not a typo.

That would be great, but...

Spoiler:

Johan is the Czech spelling, and it's that way for a very good reason.

[dreamless]

Yup, and in the manga it's Johan I think...

To stick closer to the spirit of the show, and so people would more readily get the references and how it applies to the show, we replaced the word "beast" that originally appears in the passage with "monster," and replaced "Ioanes" with "Johann" since they were far too similar not to, especially in Japanese (which is unsurprising, as both names probably refer to St. John, though I can't claim to be an expert on the origin of names).

well, there is a definite difference between "beast" and "monster" in Japanese, beast is yajuu (literally "wild beast"), monster is kaijuu (literally "strange beast"). the "Johan" there is just the katakana of "Yo-ha-ne" which is just fine for "Ioanes", "Johan" or "John".

So the "black book" part just comes out of nowhere, as that line with the kanji is just "John's Book of Revelation" or "John's Book of Apocalypse".

BTW, both Soldats and Triad are among my most favorite fansub groups, you guys are great

[musouka]

Yup, and in the manga it's Johan I think...

Yep, and...

Spoilers!!

Spoiler:

He got his name from that Czech children's book. That's why the spelling is Johan.

[FlyByNite]

Never read the manga, so are there supernatural/paranormal elements at work here? I thought it was going to be some type of straight drama but I see things like

Spoiler:

the kid being a monster thrown around. Is that in a literal demon sense, or in a killing machine, programmed by the commies type of sense?

[Melazoma]

For FlyByNyte, and all who wonder about the potential occult connections to Johan in this show:

Spoiler for Johan:

I haven't read the Manga--but from the leaky spoilage I've taken a glance at--I see a calcuating Sociopath--textbook definition being a person without a conscience. A layman analogy would be a Q & A like the following:

Q: What's the difference between a Psycopath and a Sociopath who has each killed one person?

A: The Psycopath does not know if what he did was right or wrong;
The Sociopath knows that murder is wrong, he just doesn't care, or give a flying f---k for that matter.

Under current US states' laws and precedents(most states), a Psycopath qualifies for the insanity defense whereas a clinical sociopath may be indicted for murder and not be allowed to present an insanity defense--as a matter of the letter of the law anyways. Circumstances may vary case to case.

[Marduk]

Just a little detail I noticed when watching episode 2...
When Dr. Heinemann took out the bonbons from one of the presents for Johan, I thought I could actually recognize the trade-mark of the candies. For the German viewers out there: it IS a package of Werthers Echte bonbons, or am I seriously mistaken here?
My point: Urasawa-sensei really did his research.

[FlyByNite]

Originally Posted by Marduk

Just a little detail I noticed when watching episode 2...
When Dr. Heinemann took out the bonbons from one of the presents for Johan, I thought I could actually recognize the trade-mark of the candies. For the German viewers out there: it IS a package of Werthers Echte bonbons, or am I seriously mistaken here?
My point: Urasawa-sensei really did his research.

The color and packaging did resemble Werther's candies

[Yebyosh]

Don't forget the TV is a Grundig, one of the more popular German electrical brands.

Wonder if the German companies paid for free product placement or it was done free for them

[SimplyEd]

Originally Posted by Yebyosh

Don't forget the TV is a Grundig, one of the more popular German electrical brands.

Wonder if the German companies paid for free product placement or it was done free for them

Well, if i'm not mistaken it said: Grundic on that TV, right? A nice way to circumvent possible problems btw.

There was a damn lot of obvious product placement in this show and i really wonder how many people, except for our German members and those who visited Germany before or happen to live here, would recognize it in the first place.
BTW i'm quite astonished by the level of detail that went into the display of all those places that we have seen so far..i really hope that this degree of credibility will not wane during the course of 70+ episodes.

[Melazoma]

speaking of product placement... I know this is the wrong thread but since product placement has been brought up--this is the first time for me to be so blatantly off topic--did you see that CoKe bottle in Kenranbutousai? It was there--the color scheme of the contour bottle--and I wonder how much was paid to the production? /

BTW, any more thoughts on Johan? And please add to my explanation of a sociopath if you find anything missing or incorrect.

[Grifis]

Ep 2 certainly clears up a lot of stuff for me.

Spoiler:

So it was the boy who killed his parents and he was killed by either his parents before they died or by his sister???
The irony is: Because Dr. Tenma wanted to rid of his guilt, upset because of the feeling of being used by the director so he retaliated (against the director's order) by deciding to save a child (who's in the outside innocent as an angel but in reality a dangerous 'monster' that was meant to be eliminated) instead of the Mayor whose decisions (and 'value of life' in contrast) probably would benefit society in general. I still think that Dr. Tenma made the right decision at the time even if it was a selfish decision on his part and as a result didn't bring any beneficial value for himself as well as the general public but instead caused havoc. The ideal principal of serving the general public is always first come first serve and for doctors to save anyone's life even if he/she's a criminal now in this case a dangerous child. I do feel bad for the Tenma. His final hope of doing the right thing and worthy of the sacrifices will finally come crashing down. That's just aweful.

Grifis

[musouka]

Yep, you got it Grifis. There's really nothing else to add to that except "stay tuned for an interesting ride".

[SimplyEd]

@Melazoma

Possible adds to sociopath: a person without emotions and morals, very excessive lifestyle, can be charming and a "buddy" but only if it serves his cause, a keen observer who tries to find weak spots he can exploit, usually highly intelligent

Now..who would you think to be more dangerous..psycopath or sociopath?

[Melazoma]

Known sociopaths to date have been attributed as "selective" if you will. That if a "trigger" particular to a socialpath is not presented to said sociopath, actions may not be taken... Still it's random enough, as far as "selection" goes that a psycopath's rampage may do the same damage, physically that is.

In my mind though, a sociopath is not so much dangerous as one is incredibly scary. The very idea of a person so depraved as to be indifferent to the taking of another person's life--effectively ending that person's existence--it is so incomprehensible to me so much so that it astonish and petrifies me.

Ugh, thinking about this is bringing chills down my spine. I would say that in terms of dangers to society as a whole--to some degrees a sociopath is just as dangerous as a psycopath. On a personal note though, I shudder at the thought of a Sociopath and how one ever came to be a sociopath.