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Old 2018-07-06, 02:42   Link #1
xrick
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[Question] Origins of Isekai Shoukan/Ten'i & Tensei

As the title says, does anyone know which story originated this whole current Isekai fad?
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Last edited by xrick; 2018-07-07 at 02:56.
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Old 2018-07-06, 02:51   Link #2
Tenzen12
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Tensei was kick started with Mushoku, I would say that while isekai genre itself existed from immemorial, it's popularity also could be probably attributed to Tensei getting attention.
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Old 2018-07-06, 19:25   Link #3
Nivek von Beldo
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Originally Posted by xrick View Post
As the title says, does anyone know which story originated this whole current Isekai fad?
Zero no Tsukaima might have been.
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Old 2018-07-07, 09:48   Link #4
BWTraveller
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Not sure, but one of the big inspirations isn't technically a shokan or tensei at all: Sword Art Online. The guy's not in another world or anything, but since the digital world is made to a near-real level with real death and no escape, its themes translated well into other-world stories. This may be part of the reason that so very many (annoyingly many) series have the characters somehow get not just levels and stats but actual menus and systems to work with.
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Old 2018-07-07, 10:36   Link #5
Nivek von Beldo
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Not sure, but one of the big inspirations isn't technically a shokan or tensei at all: Sword Art Online. The guy's not in another world or anything, but since the digital world is made to a near-real level with real death and no escape, its themes translated well into other-world stories. This may be part of the reason that so very many (annoyingly many) series have the characters somehow get not just levels and stats but actual menus and systems to work with.
If SAO is a isekai, almost everything is and SAO WAS a hack clone

The first isekai i watch was a kid...Those who Hunt elves...so isekai is as old as anime(battle aura turbine might be the oldest can recall and that was tomino own great work)

For me Modern Isekai might come from Zero no Tsukaima but might be wrong
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Old 2018-07-07, 14:42   Link #6
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Nivek von Beldo View Post
If SAO is a isekai, almost everything is and SAO WAS a hack clone

The first isekai i watch was a kid...Those who Hunt elves...so isekai is as old as anime(battle aura turbine might be the oldest can recall and that was tomino own great work)

For me Modern Isekai might come from Zero no Tsukaima but might be wrong
I didn't say it was. I said it inspired the new batch. A series doesn't have to be a proper member of a genre to inspire fiction in said genre, it just has to have tropes that work really well with it. And there is some correlation, as the first part takes place entirely in a fantasy world. A simulated fantasy world, but still a world that's not entirely the same as ours. It's just that after SAO was hugely successful, I think some chose consciously or unconsciously to frame their own stories in situations that would possess certain similarities, and being trapped in another world is a very effective way to bring about a similar situation, and moreover to crank said situation up to eleven: in SAO people were in constant danger and unable to return home, and most had practically zero experience in the environment they were in, but in Isekai series the hero is literally in a completely separate world that doesn't follow any of the rules he/she knows, so the tension is increased. At the very least the game world motif that is present to various degrees in most of these series probably came from there.
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Old 2018-07-07, 22:32   Link #7
wuhugm
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Isekai was there since long ago (Rayearth, El Hazard)

But the new interest was certainly SAO

It showed that webnovel can thrive

But they can't clone the VR theme so they chose real fantasy, isekai

Theoritically it should be superior to SAO which is "merely" a game

Thus isekai flooded the market

But before any of them could reach prominence, the market is already saturated
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Old 2018-07-07, 22:47   Link #8
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SAO is arguably an isekai. The world in question may be virtual but the fact that death is real and you can't go back makes it count. Throw in fantasy and game mechanics and you got an isekai wave. It probably helped that SAO was one of the greatest successes originated from a web novel.
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Old 2018-07-11, 05:38   Link #9
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Originally Posted by Nivek von Beldo View Post
The first isekai i watch was a kid...Those who Hunt elves
Incidentally, Elf o Karu Mono-tachi was the first late-night anime and made it a thing for anime to run at that time, which also resulted in the explosion of the otaku anime market. Since otaku didn't mind watching anime late at night. (Or recording it.)

People say that SAO is just a .hack// clone and they are not wrong, but the technology from .hack// is just what we can buy nowadays as VR. "The World" from .hack// is played with a virtual reality headset and a standard controller inside the anime. But there actually was an even older anime from the 1990s where people had some kind of helmet and used that to completely enter a virtual world, just like in SAO. It was a porn anime, though, and I don't remember the title. It was set in the normal world and in the end it was revealed that the normal world was just a kind of virtual world (think Matrix) where the last three survivors of earth were made to live inside by some aliens or something. Maybe it was one of them GitS clones.


Isekai is at least as old as Alice in Wonderland (1865) and it was always around in anime. The first one I can pinpoint is Orguss (1981). Then there's Fushigi Yuugi (1995), El-Hazard (1995-1998), Tenkuu no Escaflowne (1996), Ima Soko ni Iru Boku (1999), Strange Dawn (2000), Digimon Tamers (2001), Juuni Kokuki (2002), Hunter x Hunter: Greed Island (2003), Mahou Shoujo Tai Arusu (2004), Shambala o Yuku Mono (2005), Tsubasa Chronicle (2005), Zero no Tsukaima (2006), Bokurano (2007), Amatsuki (2008), Inuyasha Kanketsuhen (2009), Angel Beats (2010), C (2011), Sword Art Online (2012), Log Horizon (2013), No Game No Life (2014), GATE (2015), Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu (2016), Youjo Senki (2017), Overlord III (2018).

Each and every year since at least 1995 there's an Isekai anime. Sword Art Online surely gave the genre a push, since it got so popular. Just like K-On! gave moe-blobs a push back in 2009. If something sells, make more of it. Pretty simple. And the stuff that came after wasn't exactly unpopular, either. So it stands to reason we'll get even more Isekai anime. Which I like, since it's my favorite genre.
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Old 2018-07-13, 07:51   Link #10
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SAO is the one that popularized that Isekai BS. There is no coincident that most of the generic Isekai MC look like Kirito.

Zero No Tsukaima may not be the greatest Isekai work, but at least it is readable. The Main Character is not even strong and he has to earn everything thru pure effort and humiliation.
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Old 2018-07-13, 08:55   Link #11
dragon1412
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If i have to say it : SAO and Mushoku both have a hand in this boom

1 is that SAO prove itself to be able to success as a WN rather than just casual hobby. Before SAO; WN have far less interest like current time; take the amount of adaptions from WN to LN from recent years and a few years ago than you will see. While VR genre of SAO is tend to be the originator of both Isekai and game scenario; i'd say that Mushoku is the one who actually set the genre of Isekai

Unlike SAO; MT open the template itself tensei + Isekai. And being the top of Narou for god knows how long, MT itself is a living plate of success of the genre, with SAO getting the attentions, proved the success of WN as a whole and MT set the genre, no wonder the genre got popular.

Though just like Erotora said, the market has already saturated by this point
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Old 2018-07-13, 14:05   Link #12
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Is Mushoku all that popular? It doesn't even have an anime yet.
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Old 2018-07-13, 14:15   Link #13
xrick
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Who knows if it may not have, in the future...
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Old 2018-07-13, 17:03   Link #14
AnimeFangirl
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Well sure, but all the popular stuff have gotten at least announcements. If it's the second most popular isekai after SAO, it's strange it doesn't have an anime. Not only that, but I'm not seeing it on the list of bestselling LNs from last year: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...s-2017/.124897
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...e-2017/.124898
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Old 2018-07-13, 23:04   Link #15
Tenzen12
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Is Mushoku all that popular? It doesn't even have an anime yet.
Well, it's certainly is that popular, but story got concluded long before LN isekai anime became thing. Not to mention unlike classic isekai, tensei are harder to adapt because noone really likes dragged childhood arc.

In first place MT creates classic iskeai/Tensei template (actually it was probably very first tensei ever.) It introduced "cheat protagonist" as we know it, actual isekai Polygami, Adventurer guild with it's ranking, being reborn as noble and many others. Youngster these days use these elements authomaically because it was done all time (it's sort of wicked circle), but reason why it started to be done all time is MT.
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Old 2018-07-13, 23:22   Link #16
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Actually the first isekai story on Narou was done in 2006 https://yomou.syosetu.com/search.php...rder=old&type=

And the first tensei story was done in 2009, so long before Mushoku Tensei. https://yomou.syosetu.com/search.php...rder=old&type=

They started to appear in number around 2012, though, same as Mushoku Tensei, so it's not wrong to call it the spark that started the Isekai Tensei fad.
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Old 2018-07-13, 23:31   Link #17
Tenzen12
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First isekai in Narou doesn't really matter. Isekai existed long before and unless it popularized genre as we know it, it would be same old generation isekai (like ZnT for example), rather than part of new wave.


But, that first tensei was something before MT is interesting, was it popular?
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Old 2018-07-14, 00:19   Link #18
dragon1412
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Originally Posted by Rinvelt View Post
Actually the first isekai story on Narou was done in 2006 https://yomou.syosetu.com/search.php...rder=old&type=

And the first tensei story was done in 2009, so long before Mushoku Tensei. https://yomou.syosetu.com/search.php...rder=old&type=

They started to appear in number around 2012, though, same as Mushoku Tensei, so it's not wrong to call it the spark that started the Isekai Tensei fad.
It less about the genre itself, but the template of success an the timing, MT is a massive success, staying on top for years after years. So people after it thinks that it possible to have similar results if they follow the template of MT, remember, MT dominated the ranking completely, not just staying on top. It is hard to think of a novel actually managed to challenge it place, MT is so above the 2nd position that even now it still stood there at the top

The timing is because of SAO, SAO success bought people eyes onto WN itself & MT was on top at that time, the boom happened because a few books running after the template got success similar to MT in the early wave. It only after the wave have come for around 2 years that it's has started to died down
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Old 2018-07-14, 08:25   Link #19
wuhugm
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Mushoku Tensei is actually not so influential in the world building of isekai genre

Most isekai has RPG mechanics (STATS, SKILLS, ETC), this is SAO influence, none of that system is in Mushoku or older isekai anime

Also the most cancerous part of isekai, Wish Fulfillment and Power Fantasy, is also the embodiment of Kirito, once again not the influence of Mushoku with it's MC's Rudeus being not so OP
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Old 2018-07-15, 00:38   Link #20
Tenzen12
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Except concept of Game Isekai comes from Log Horizon and got popularised by such as Overlord and Deathmarch. SAO has no direct and very little indirect involvement. With otherworldians using game-like interface.

Skills itself could be atribute to Re-monster and Shield bro. And again former of two is tensei story.

Basically every single isekai/tensei story can be traced to LH, SB, MT or it's combination. Well maybe with exception of Re-zero that is.
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