Character Discussion - Kallen

[scifijimmy]

Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt

I gues it's possible that in episode 24 Kallen could be trying to get to Lelouch, for some reason, and Suzaku is blocking her path to keep her from interfering with Lelouch's resolve for the plan.

It's also possible that Lelouch's resolve in Zero Requiem could waver in the next episode, where Suzaku's won't.

[scarlet512]

Originally Posted by scifijimmy

It's also possible that Lelouch's resolve in Zero Requiem could waver in the next episode, where Suzaku's won't.

That is highly possible

[youngde]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

She hates Suzaku. Just because she knows a bit about his past doesn't change that, and his dickery over her capture only enhanced it. She'll kill him if it comes to it, just as she would have any other time. She doesn't regret it any more than she regretted nuking Jeremiah or anyone else; it's war and he's in the way.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Personally, I think she hates what he's become, feels he's thrown out his own morals and doesn't trust his motives, and is therefore highly suspicious of Lelouch's association with him.

At the same time, I think if Suzaku were able to revert to his old self (the one that used to smile like Gino wants him to), Kallen would be able to forgive given time (and at least one last beat down).

Granted, I'll admit that Suzaku going back to his old self at this point is, at best, iffy.

[linkinstreet]

Originally Posted by scifijimmy

It's also possible that Lelouch's resolve in Zero Requiem could waver in the next episode, where Suzaku's won't.

His requim was in memory of Nunally. Now that she is alive, he don't really have the same push anymroe

[pingva]

Originally Posted by linkinstreet

His requim was in memory of Nunally. Now that she is alive, he don't really have the same push anymroe

You want to have a push, don't you?
Then you should kill Nunnally in 24 episode last scene, last minute, last second.
Then 25 episode is Re...

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by scifijimmy

It's also possible that Lelouch's resolve in Zero Requiem could waver in the next episode, where Suzaku's won't.

Like always, Suzaku tries to snap him out of it and then Lelouch goes in and makes the necessary changes to Requiem.

They need to defeat Schenzeil.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Personally, I think she hates what he's become, feels he's thrown out his own morals and doesn't trust his motives, and is therefore highly suspicious of Lelouch's association with him.

At the same time, I think if Suzaku were able to revert to his old self (the one that used to smile like Gino wants him to), Kallen would be able to forgive given time (and at least one last beat down).

Granted, I'll admit that Suzaku going back to his old self at this point is, at best, iffy.

I don't think they are going to have time for that sort of thing.

The most probable situation is Gino talking with kallen about Suzaku and vice versa.

Wait, does Kallen know that Suzaku and Lelouch were best friends almost 8 years ago? Because then that may help a bit.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

I don't think they are going to have time for that sort of thing.

The most probable situation is Gino talking with kallen about Suzaku and vice versa.

Oh, to be certain, there's not enough time for her to get over her feelings for Suzaku in series. I'm just saying if both survive, I think she and Suzaku could reconcile given time. I guess I didn't make that clear.

youngde, signing off.

[Senigata]

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

Don't get me wrong, I like AthrunXCagalli (and they actually had developments). But the way Fukuda announce these two a couple is like... dealing with leftovers.

They didn't last though as far as I know. But then again SEED jumped the shark pretty early on for me so I didn't even bother with SEED Destiny.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Wait, does Kallen know that Suzaku and Lelouch were best friends almost 8 years ago? Because then that may help a bit.

She at least know they were friends before Ashford. Lelouch admits as much. Doubt she knows the extent of it, though.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

She at least know they were friends before Ashford. Lelouch admits as much. Doubt she knows the extent of it, though.

Well, unless C.C. told her about it when she told Kallen all about Lelouch during the year between seasons. C.C. at least knew they were friends from then since she was watching them.

Don't really know why C.C. would bother to tell Kallen though. Doesn't seem entirely necessary, but it's possible.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

She at least know they were friends before Ashford. Lelouch admits as much. Doubt she knows the extent of it, though.

So in other words no. Doubt she would even remember something like that.

I guess we'll see what happens but she wouldn't be as fired up as she was last battle since Lelouch was there cheering her on.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

I guess we'll see what happens but she wouldn't be as fired up as she was last battle since Lelouch was there cheering her on.

I don't know about that. She might be even more fired up is Lelouch is her objective as opposed to her charge. If Suzaku really is between her and Lelouch in 24, and assuming she's intent on reaching him, I think she'd be even more ferocious.

[bladeofdarkness]

i think the long walk in ep 22 actually served another purpose for lelouch other then being nostalgic and spending more time with kallen
he started the conversation between them when saying that it feels nostalgic becouse he wanted her to talk about what happend
he wanted her to confront him about their past (i dont think he realized she would end up kissing him) becouse he needed to buy some time
from the POV of the OOBK leaders watching from above they both walk into the building and then for some reason lelouch takes more time to reach the meeting then he really should
the quesion raised would be what happened in those few moments between walking into the building and lelouch getting to the meeting
and since they dont know that kallen confronted him about what she means (i dont think she'd do that somewhere that they can listen in on them) to him they could very easily think that he was using the time to geass her into helping him with his plans at a later stage
which would probably end up with the OOBK grounding her rather then letting her take part in the coming battle (she may be their best chance against the lancelot, but who wants to risk giving the enemy another albion on their side)
the kiss (while probably not expected) actually helps him all the more becouse its not like kallen can just tell the OOBK "no he didnt geass me, he took more time to get to the meeting becouse i kissed him"
this in his plan keeps her out of danger
but plotwise it keeps her away from the frontline and in a position to act on her own will (which she has never done before, since that would be disobeying orders) which he cant predict
even ami koshimizu said that from now on shes going to act on her own will

[morbosfist]

Too involved and too many variables for Lelouch to have planned it like that. Not to mention his actions afterward would distract them from suspecting her of anything. The only logical reason for him to do that was to give her a chance to talk, even if he didn't say anything in return.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Too involved and too many variables for Lelouch to have planned it like that. Not to mention his actions afterward would distract them from suspecting her of anything. The only logical reason for him to do that was to give her a chance to talk, even if he didn't say anything in return.

all he has to do is keep her there for a moment longer
thats all
he can bank on the OOBK being paranoid about the geass and jump to conclutions

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

all he has to do is keep her there for a moment longer
thats all
he can bank on the OOBK being paranoid about the geass and jump to conclutions

Maybe. If they do it next episode I might be inclined to believe that he planned it, but Lelouch's plans usually revolve around things he can control. There's too many unknowns here: will they kill her or not, will they even suspect her, etc. As the episode shows, she had her Guren right there to fly off, though that part he clearly had planned to negate.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Maybe. If they do it next episode I might be inclined to believe that he planned it, but Lelouch's plans usually revolve around things he can control. There's too many unknowns here: will they kill her or not, will they even suspect her, etc. As the episode shows, she had her Guren right there to fly off, though that part he clearly had planned to negate.

the guren was there before that
and since xing-ke is there he can assume someone would raise that possiblty that kallen was set up to switch sides at the wrong moment

[prototype_sky]

Originally Posted by youngde

I'm not sure if she hates Suzaku. She certainly hates what he has become, and is suspicious/wary of him. She doesn't like that he used to be so kind, but his hatred made him turn his back on his own morals. She hates that he was willing to sell out his best friend to further his own agenda. She certainly hates the fact that he nearly used Refrain on her. And, of course, she REALLY hates that Lelouch and Suzaku have now joined up.

Still, despite all that, she did still sound slightly sad when saying goodbye to Suzaku when she was about to kill him. And when she actually said "I hate you," to him, it struck me more as 'I'm-really-pissed-off-at-what-you've-become" than literal hate.

And she does have a couple insights into his character. She knows that Suzaku kept pictures of her and Lelouch, even after they were enemies. And she knows that Suzaku has a death wish that comes from killing his own father.

I'm not saying anything will come of it. There isn't much time for much more development. But it is something to consider.

youngde, signing off

You guys are assuming a lot of stuff about Kallen she can't hate him for the role reversal because she wasn't fond of him before that as well and she too is also somewhat guilty of the above stuff you mention.

She as well set aside her morals to become a terrorist to make her dead brothers wishes come true and to get results.

Even after learning about geass etc she never tell lulu to stop doing it becuase it was a necessary evil to fullfil her brothers wishes. Suzaku behavior right now is very much like Kallens throughout the majority of the series teaming up with lulu to get results.

I think in season 1 she didn't like the fact that Suzaku should have been on the BK side since his father wishes was oppose the brittainnian's to the last man and he was doing the exact opposite judging from episode 19 s1. They were pretty much arguing whether the ends justifies the means then.

I think she more angry of the fact that he couldn't make up his mind whose side on especially after the refrain incident when he said he was sorry and that his passed actions gets in the way of her brothers dreams.

Personally the current Kallen should have no personal reasons for fighthing him it should be all business unless its a role reversal and now that her brothers dream is a reality at the expense of losing Zero she finally agress with what suzaku was talking about back in s1 19

[yondy]

She's a freedom fighter not a terrorist. There's nothing immoral about killing/geassing your enemy(ie a brittanian soldier), this is WAR. If Lelouch geassed some innocent civilians and she found out about it, there's no doubt she's going to stop him. When Lelouch tried to hostage Kaguya and the rest of the World leaders back in ep. 22, she was willing to take him down.

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by yondy

She's a freedom fighter not a terrorist. There's nothing immoral about killing/geassing your enemy(ie a brittanian soldier), this is WAR. If Lelouch geassed some innocent civilians and she found out about it, there's no doubt she's going to stop him. When Lelouch tried to hostage Kaguya and the rest of the World leaders back in ep. 22, she was willing to take him down.

Do you even know what terrorism IS?

Mind you, one can argue that every government ever implemented that gives punishment for crimes and even every superhero EVER are technically terrorists.

She's a terrorist. Stop twisting shit based on the all-American apple pie bullshit people always deal out now.