Kanon - 2006 - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Minoto]

Originally Posted by orion

Yeah, they do look similar. There goes any hopes of seeing Misuzu walk by with Yukito.

I wouldn't give up hope just yet. After all, isn't the point of a cameo appearance having a character appear, as themselves, in a work that they aren't a part of? Yuuichi remembering having a crush on his childhood babysitter, whose name he doesn't remember but who is clearly shown as Misuzu in a flashback, would work, but a memory of "Sawatari Makoto, as played by Kamio Misuzu" doesn't really fit. I think the similarity is just a coincidence...and because we're not shown the real Makoto's face (probably because Yuuichi doesn't remember it all that well), it's easy to link her to that image of Misuzu, since they're both long-haired girls in white dresses and hats. I don't think there's anything more to it, though.

[New/Old]

Yep. View it more as something similar to tip one's hat to. Heh heh.

[Noppapana]

when yuuichi said the name shameseduka shameo i almost thought he would say Shamisen

[Sorrow-K]

Originally Posted by Pakxenon

I guess the problem for me is that I didn't expect any magic out of this series (or I didn't think much of it since I was so immersed in the daily life of Yuuichi and the moe XD). After this arc, I'll be on the lookout for the clues. =D

Actually, that's a big criticism I had of the first series when I first saw it all those years ago. The supernatural themes sort of just pop up out of nowhere. I found it particularly jarring in the

Spoiler:

Mai arc where she starts fighting ghosts.

However, once you get past this, Kanon actually tells some really fantastic stories (let's face it, they're fairly disconnected from each other). I actually think Kanon's strength isn't so much the stories themselves, but the way it tells them. This was something that I thought came out well even in the Toei version. It's been amplified by an immeasurable amount in the KyoAni version.

It so helps to tell a story like this when you have absolute topnotch production values. People may say otherwise, but when you take care with every little detail as KyoAni does in everything it does, it makes such a massive difference to the way the story impacts the audience.

[Noppapana]

woow i just watch the whole ep
i am a bit shock how deep the story is
the explanation of amano-san was quite an impact

[Guardian Enzo]

A strong episode, but not a 10 for me - more like an 8. I agree that the revelation of Makoto's nature felt very rushed, though it didn't come as a complete surprise. They did manage to make Makoto a more interesting and sympathetic figure, which is quite a feat from my prespective. Still, not even a glimpse of Ayu - uguu! That's a point deduction right there...

[panzerfan]

(you haven't seen rush if you've never experienced the Toei Kanon rush... fuu... but anyways. That is acually only the beginning, as huge as it might seen to you)

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

I actually think Kanon's strength isn't so much the stories themselves, but the way it tells them. This was something that I thought came out well even in the Toei version. It's been amplified by an immeasurable amount in the KyoAni version.

Bingo, Key's work had always been about atmosphere.
Are the characters of Kanon cliche? Sure they are, I don't think even the most diehard of Kanon fans would deny this as the Kanon girls really are the most basic bishoujo archtypes you can get. But the thing is it's not what they are but how Key used them to tell the story. A lot of people seems to have confused originality being equated to a good show, or that plot development with twist and turn at every corner is essential to a good story, this is not just Kanon but entertainment in general, but this can't be more wrong. Good execution can turn something simple to something beautiful. If you look back in entertainment history, a lot of the classics are arguably very simple in plot or its central theme, there are countless shows where it is no more than a simple love conquers all or justice preveals type of story, and Kanon (and AIR as well I might add) falls into this category of story-telling. This is also the reason why it is so important to carefully pace Kanon with scenes of character interactions which seemingly doesn't progress the plot and feel "useless", because those scenes are there to setup the overall atmosphere of the show.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

...A lot of people seem to have confused originality being equated to a good show, or that plot development with twist and turn at every corner is essential to a good story....

Quoted for truth. I think that the slavish pursuit of originality can destroy the emotion of a work. Of course, the best works have both head and heart, but in art, if I'm going to choose one, I'll choose heart and esthetic value over dead contrivance every time.

In Kanon, however, I think they in fact created some of these archetypes -- or at least created modern versions derived from prototypes from the 19th century or earlier. Kanon has a real fairy-tale (or mukashibanashi) feel to it sometimes. I mean, foxes turning into people, for one.

[New/Old]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Quoted for truth. I think that the slavish pursuit of originality can destroy the emotion of a work. Of course, the best works have both head and heart, but in art, if I'm going to choose one, I'll choose heart and esthetic value over dead contrivance every time.

In Kanon, however, I think they in fact created some of these archetypes -- or at least created modern versions derived from prototypes from the 19th century or earlier. Kanon has a real fairy-tale (or mukashibanashi) feel to it sometimes. I mean, foxes turning into people, for one.

Agreed. Heh heh.

[Vexx]

As any literary type will tell you, there really *are* no original stories, just five or six motifs created about umpteen thousand years ago and recycled since then. The real question is the story being dressed and retold in a manner entertaining to the audience.

[Meophist]

I've always thought that there's a fairy tale aspect to each of Key's works(ok, just Kanon and Air since that's all I've seen). I think the Air movie really gets this aspect well.

[nani]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

This is also the reason why it is so important to carefully pace Kanon with scenes of character interactions which seemingly doesn't progress the plot and feel "useless", because those scenes are there to setup the overall atmosphere of the show.

Furthermore, the interactions helped to build up the characters via indirect characterization.

As we know more and more about the characters, we are gradually becoming accustomed/attached to them until the point when we actually start to "care" for them.

Spoiler for Key's general plot structure:

That is when the "emotion roller-coaster" begins.

Originally Posted by Meophist

I've always thought that there's a fairy tale aspect to each of Key's works(ok, just Kanon and Air since that's all I've seen). I think the Air movie really gets this aspect well.

Planetarian does not involve any fairy tale aspect (unless you consider Reverie as a fairy ).

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by nani

As we know more and more about the characters, we are gradually becoming accustomed/attached to them until the point when we actually start to "care" for them.

Spoiler for Key's general plot structure:

That is when the "emotion roller-coaster" begins.

yep and isnt that just a bitch! its like getting someone on drugs and then depriving them without warning...dam evil but for some reason you just want to keep comming back for more cause the feeling you get is just ecstasy

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by nani

Planetarian does not involve any fairy tale aspect (unless you consider Reverie as a fairy ).

I did say out of Kanon and Air, which are the only ones I've seen so far. I probably should play Planetarian, but it's scaring me at the moment.

In any case, by fairy tale aspect, I wasn't talking about anything super-natural, but rather… I don't know how to explain it, but it feels like a modern-day fairy tale to me.

[Klashikari]

i assume that you are talking about some poetical aspect : mysterious fictional story yet, enchanting elements with some intense emotionnal moments? (we can resume it as : magic, not the content, but the form and the story telling. just like... a fairy tale.)

[ZeusIrae]

.....................


oh,so she's going to die,, I knew kannon was a drama but this.......There was a few hints but I didn't expect them to drop the bomb like this.I almost cried.I don't want Makoto to die,this is worse then anything I have seen since I know there will be no escape for her.This is a pure tragedy,aaaarrgggghhhhh,just at the moment I was starting to really like the character.



Shoud I really continue?I mean, Ayu also have memory problems.I doesn't take a genius to guess that her fate won't be pretty either.The only character that seems safe is Naiyuki but her mother is so weird that I am not even sure(and let's not forget that she remembers Yuichi,a fact wich seems equivalent to a death sentence in Kanon).


Laugh at my ignorance but keep your awful secrets with you.



And let me cry alone....................

[Anacone]

Hmm does she die... maybe they surprise us and she just turns back to fox... Maybe I'm just dreaming but that could be one possibility. And its not said that they couldn't have Makoto around to last episodes, although it would be hard to follow knowing what pain she suffers.

[IRJustman]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Our friends from Sprocket-TWH were even faster, as usual ... in any case, happy thanksgiving from SS-Eclipse.

A bit late to reply to this, buuuuuut...

We ran a bit late mainly due to fatigue on my side of things and a few technical problems with my laptop before I could properly process sound and encode the sound (I was in Sacramento at the time visiting family for Thanksgiving).

But hey, we still made 21 hours!

--Ian.

[Jaruromania]

Wow, overwhelming 10/10. Haven't watched this episode yet, but judging from the polls, I won't be disappointed when I get around to doing so. Hope KyoAni concludes the Makoto arc well, since Toei didn't do such a great job with it.

I kind of preferred 2002's intermingling of all the arcs...I'd rather half the series be happy, cheerful, and funny and move on to the real plotline the second half, but this looks like it might turn out to be silliness, drama repeat 5x...

I've barely played halfway through the game, so I don't know exactly what it does with each girls' arc.