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Teleutao · 2009-10-31, 17:47

Damn, this story is taking so long I'm finding other things to do with my time, who'd have guessed?

I must say that I'm finding myself not liking Athena all that much. It's more that she's an incredibly boring character in a cast full of funny, dynamic and interesting people. Seriously, Machina and Ayumu or more fun and exciting than her (I may find Ayumu annoying but at least she makes me laugh sometimes). She just reminds me of some old cartoon villains...

For example, picture those villains who have a secret lair and plot their goals and schemes. They send their minions (Machina) out to collect necessary items/capture the hero/something else that's important to the plan. Maybe the hero does get captured (before or while breaking into the secret lair) and the villains talks to them a lot and if we're really lucky we might get a snippet of what their plans and motives are. The thing is, very little of the story actually includes them because they don't do anything!

The problem is, most of these villains are engaging in some way (taunting the hero, getting great lines, sarcasm in general..stuff that makes for god villains) but Athena is not. At best she's an Anti Villain, sort of like an Anti Hero but instead of a hero who is darker and more cynical think a villain that doesn't seem like such a bad person. Still, that isn't much of an excuse for her not doing anything except speak a few lines and act cool and distant (except for, like, two fan service moments) when she could be explaining everything, at least to us even if the core cast doesn't get to know yet.

What's worse is that she hasn't received good development yet and the story is going to slow for us to actually learn anything useful about her. She's completely stealing the spotlight and isn't even making up for it by being well developed in that time, which is tragic as with powers like her she really should be out doing more instead of sitting in her giant house. It's sort of like some somewhat recent chapters of Naruto that have focused almost completely on Sasuke, sure his fans are happy, but he's not the title character and some of us want to see the hero actually DO things.

Seriously, when was the last time Hayate actually did anything? Now he isn't even living up to 'Combat Butler'...I feel so sad for him right now because it seems that absolutely nothing can go his way right now. I know that this arc won't end well, and I get the sneaking suspicion that Athena hasn't been developed much because she won't be appearing much (if at all) after this arc for whatever reason. After all, why waste that time and energy on a character that you aren't going to keep using? All I can do now is hope that the story will eventually move on to actions and that we someday figure out why all of this is important (not likely until they actually have to go to the Royal Garden for some reason, until then we get vague hints and bits of information).

Used Can · 2009-10-31, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teleutao

The problem is, most of these villains are engaging in some way (taunting the hero, getting great lines, sarcasm in general..stuff that makes for god villains) but Athena is not. At best she's an Anti Villain, sort of like an Anti Hero but instead of a hero who is darker and more cynical think a villain that doesn't seem like such a bad person.

The problem is, she's not a villain. She's more like the heroine/side-heroine that's doing evil things against her will. All the same, I've got to admit that Hata should have given her some development before this arc. The End of the World arc was good for some of us to feel attached to Athena, but I wouldn't be surprised if many fans of this manga don't care much for her, due to her lack of exposure. That type of "bond" has to be established between the reader and a character, in order for developments like these to have any emotional impact on the reader, or, at the very least, for the reader to feel sympathy. In my opinion, no matter how much I loved the EoTW arc, 10 chapters were not enough to establish that bond with most readers - even more so when Athena may be sinking their ships.

zodanhko · 2009-10-31, 18:18

You know, this manga never really have much "action" (serious) before until now. The appearance of Athena bring the entire story up several notches whether the ending will resolved or not. Unlike Hinagiku who had so much screen time, about 100x of that Athena, and she contributed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING related to the plot OR the action that you speaking of. Is not like she didn't, more correctly, she can't.

It's very funny that you speaking of Athena didn't do anything and speaking of her characters development with the limited chapters she had...

Speaking of "boring" character, Hinagiku's characteristics are pretty much like a book. Honestly, she's fun and all, but that's it. Athena? Mysterious? Magical power? Midas? what else? Certainly, Athena is a character much harder to read compare to Hinagiku.

Used Can · 2009-10-31, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by zodanhko

You know, this manga never really have much "action" (serious) before until now. The appearance of Athena bring the entire story up several notches whether the ending will resolved or not. Unlike Hinagiku who had so much screen time, about 100x of that Athena, and she contributed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING related to the plot OR the action that you speaking of.

I don't think he was talking about plot, but about enjoyment. As in, Hina, Ayumu and Co. have done several things that make this manga funny, enjoyable, romantic, etc. whereas Athena has done no such thing so far, or, at least, not half as much as the other heroines - naturally, she hasn't had even a fraction of the exposure the others characters have had, but now that she's having it, she's not doing anything he (and other people who think the same way) finds enjoyable.

I think that's understandable, since HnG is a slice-of-life love comedy, and characters can be measured with those types of standards.

Rah · 2009-10-31, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teleutao

I know that this arc won't end well, and I get the sneaking suspicion that Athena hasn't been developed much because she won't be appearing much (if at all) after this arc for whatever reason. After all, why waste that time and energy on a character that you aren't going to keep using? All I can do now is hope that the story will eventually move on to actions and that we someday figure out why all of this is important (not likely until they actually have to go to the Royal Garden for some reason, until then we get vague hints and bits of information).

To make a good manga? Think of One Piece. Loads of characters, and the magic of it is that they can be used again in the future.

HnG is........ a manga with a short story that was converted to a comedy-parody for sales purposes. Or perhaps that part of it was intentional, but more characters were introduced, situations made up, etc.. just to appeal to more people. In the beginning he wrote that he doesn't know how long the manga will stay afloat. Sort of like being on trial, or something...

Ah, this doesn't sound right. This whole "serious" arc is complete BS. In filler chapters more crazy and impossible things happen on a daily basis, and Hayate overcomes them with ease.

Filler: A nuclear bomb? Oh, please! I bathe in the center of the sun!
"Serious": Oh, noes! Eh Kickedz meh! I are bleeding! This be serious! Halp meh!

.......

Rah's inner conflict: Nononononono! Don't think about it! Happy thoughts, happy thoughts! It's an awesome manga. Yessss, don't bother connecting weird stuff together to make sense! It already does! No explanation is necessary! As long as there's cute fan service! Yup, everything is alright!

Edit~

Ah, I'm slow as ever... *sigh*

@Used Can & zodanhko

That's the damn problem! It's like the manga is separated into two parts. A silly part, which is totally irrelevant with the true plot, and the real story.

In the silly part anything can happen, and in the serious part things are notched down a bit. Well, at least that's the feeling I get from it. Dunno, might be just something in the moment that I'm feeling again...

I just get the feeling that the real story doesn't have much to it, and that's why they brought up all the comedy-parody. Ah, dunno... *sigh*

Spoiler for cruise control.. etc..:

A retreat is the worst possible development. And one with none of them seriously injured, or the gem taken at that! There's absolutely no impact to it. If they return to Nagi now, and everyone worries over Hayate's "injuries" <--- YEAH, RIGHT! it will be really... reaaaaallllyyy...... urgh... I'm not in the mood for this anymore. This is stupid. I was really looking forward to a conclusion to this. One side being the victor (no deaths of course!), and stuff...

bah...

Koroshiya_Kame_13 · 2009-10-31, 18:31

Its really up to the mangaka to create a character that is liked by the reader. Although readers in the English community might dislike a specific arc or character, that doesn't mean that readers in the Japanese community will dislike it too. The manga is targeted at Japanese readers, so its really their opinion that counts, evident with some manga that's well received in the English community but was cancelled due to the lack of popularity in the Japanese community.

Used Can · 2009-10-31, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13

evident with some manga that's well received in the English community but was cancelled due to the lack of popularity in the Japanese community.

Mx0 ;_;

Hopefully, Loop will do well.

Rah · 2009-10-31, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Used Can

Mx0 ;_;

Hopefully, Loop will do well.

Okay, incoming personal opinion.

"Mx0 ;_;" <--- You're joking, right? That was damn boring. That's why it ended! The frekkin' editors have brains!

Used Can · 2009-10-31, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah

Okay, incoming personal opinion.

"Mx0 ;_;" <--- You're joking, right? That was damn boring. That's why it ended! The frekkin' editors have brains!

You can shove your personal opinion up your a... j/k

I really liked Mx0, and I wanted more.

Rah · 2009-10-31, 18:53

You answer fast. That's good.

Yeah, I'll agree half to that. I liked it too, but only till around the middle. It really started to drag on with all sorts of pointless stuff. Honestly, I don't remember half of it! Sure, my memory is usually crap, but I wouldn't forget a good manga easily. The start of Mx0 is awesome! How he unscrews his head, or how he uses that fire... everyone is WTF. Then the enrollment to the school, the magic lessons, weird fights... ah, I don't remember much.

Hmm, let me try to compare it with HnG a bit. (Not comparing it plot-wise, but pacing..)

The start is full of misunderstandings and it's promising. Lot's of weird things happening, and the misfortune that torments Hayate is funny. More characters get introduced, and it gets livelier. Then attending the school, getting confessions, weird battles here and there. It has many decent "stand alone" chapters. But now, Hata is just throwing more and more questions at us. Stalling and stalling... and... grrr damnit...

How I'm hoping that this week's spoiler text is fake!

zodanhko · 2009-10-31, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Used Can

I don't think he was talking about plot, but about enjoyment. As in, Hina, Ayumu and Co. have done several things that make this manga funny, enjoyable, romantic, etc. whereas Athena has done no such thing so far, or, at least, not half as much as the other heroines - naturally, she hasn't had even a fraction of the exposure the others characters have had, but now that she's having it, she's not doing anything he (and other people who think the same way) finds enjoyable.

I think that's understandable, since HnG is a slice-of-life love comedy, and characters can be measured with those types of standards.

I was trying to comment on how for the last 150x chapter or so, all Hina did was nothing but developed her character (And should I say failed every chance of confession dragging the story?), and, right now, he expected Athena to do something with her power for "action," with her recent limited chapters and limited appearance, instead of "staying in her big house."

Can I call this "privileges" for favorite character?

Rah · 2009-10-31, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by zodanhko

I was trying to comment on how for the last 150x chapter or so, all Hina did was nothing but developed her character (And should I say failed every chance of confession dragging the story?), and, right now, he expected Athena to do something with her power for "action" with her recent limited chapters.

Can I call this "privileges" for favorite character?

Like I said, the story is split in two. A silly part and a serious part. It doesn't go on like a normal story would, with characters being introduced, plot moving, although at times slowly, and such, and with everything being a whole. Here we have many silly chapters, that can be entirely ignored in the serious part, because they would otherwise contradict things. Like, how Hayate is able to trash a giant robot, nearly die numerous times, but it's just a "flesh wound, lol". And now, he's got owned by Machina, and he's all injured for real.. yeah.. ok... makes sense...

Manga start:

Character / Story introduction.
Story development.
Story development.
Filler.
Filler.
Filler.
More characters introduced.
Character development.
Filler.
Filler.
Story development.
10 times filler.

And continue like that till the whole Greece thing. This is the longest arc in HnG, as a whole - Greece Arc (Athena, Hina, Ayumu, Beach things.. whatever, all together).

It's like watching Bleach anime. It's all filler. Lol.

Does anyone even watch that? *shiver*

zodanhko · 2009-10-31, 19:21

Skip the story, and skip the plot. I will pertain to call it "privileges." See, Athena is the beginning of EVERYTHING.

For Bleach, I quit like 100 Million years ago...

Rah · 2009-10-31, 19:32

Mhm..

The Bleach manga is still... uh.... I won't say "okay", but it's still... just "still..." hahaha!

Athena isn't the beginning of everything. The beginning related to Hayate, yeah, but as a whole manga, no. Not unless she's actually a sort of supernatural being, but we all saw her age... so... yeah...

Dunno man.. I'm just disappointed in this week's chapter if it's true.

Everyone is fine, and they successfully retreated? What now? Nothing is solved...

Is the vacation going to end? Are we going to see Athena in Japan? Perhaps at school? That's pretty lame...

zodanhko · 2009-10-31, 19:39

Beginning of everything refers to the start of the real plot of the manga including the "stop still time of Hayate begins to move."

Lol, I thought you already expected that to happen. True, it will be very disappointing if they just escape like that.

Rah · 2009-10-31, 19:47

Well, I wasn't expecting it to happen, but I certainly said it's a possibility. Worst one at that.

Where's surerman? Is he on a mission to kill Hata yet? May I join? I want to stop time for him, and put a needle into every pore of his body. Ah.... the pain upon restarting time...

Eheh... heheh....

Anyhow, still no spoilers. Been checking my usual 3 spoiler pages, and they're all in the dark. I'm out for now. If I find something I'll post it later. Though, probably that guy Hina_Sama, or something will do it before me. Weird.. to regularly post spoiler pics, but not partake in the convo.

It sort of feels like he's throwing one steak to 10 starved dogs, and watch how they fight, or kill themselves over it. Rather amusing... hmhm...

zodanhko · 2009-10-31, 19:50

Here's something, don't know if it's true.

Credit to Todoko

Spoiler for spoilers:

leoblack9 · 2009-10-31, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Beside Athena there seems to be a giant snake.

Jormungandr?

-_-

One of these days, filler arcs contains such cameos.. good thing I didn't skip on that.

Hey, I can picture Athena on that picture as well!

SO is Machina = Sion & Snake combined? Just for something to talk about though.

Will Hayate beat them TTGL style? (Hell yeah Garlock Hayate)

There are also lots of mythology based elements in teh filler, I couldn't discount that just because its filler.

Used Can · 2009-10-31, 20:29

Well, that seems to expand on the previous spoilers. So, I guess they were true.
That's too bad, honestly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zodanhko

See, Athena is the beginning of EVERYTHING.

That'd be Mikado, I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leoblack9

Jormungandr?

No, that's Norse mythology. It must be Erichthonius.

zodanhko · 2009-10-31, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Used Can

That'd be Mikado, I think

Mikado had appeared long before since Athena's first official appearance but the plot still isn't get anywhere. Everything begins to move forward due to Hayate and Athena's interaction again.

If you are speaking of the RG, then it's difficult to say. Athena has the magical power to locate the entrance whereas Mikado found the description about it.

About mythology. One of the chapter called, "The Shield of Aegis" which represent Machina. And the shield is decorated with snake-like features.

2009-10-31, 18:18	Link #4183
zodanhko ignoring Join Date: Aug 2009	You know, this manga never really have much "action" (serious) before until now. The appearance of Athena bring the entire story up several notches whether the ending will resolved or not. Unlike Hinagiku who had so much screen time, about 100x of that Athena, and she contributed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING related to the plot OR the action that you speaking of. Is not like she didn't, more correctly, she can't. It's very funny that you speaking of Athena didn't do anything and speaking of her characters development with the limited chapters she had... Speaking of "boring" character, Hinagiku's characteristics are pretty much like a book. Honestly, she's fun and all, but that's it. Athena? Mysterious? Magical power? Midas? what else? Certainly, Athena is a character much harder to read compare to Hinagiku. Last edited by zodanhko; 2009-10-31 at 18:28.

2009-10-31, 19:50	Link #4197
zodanhko ignoring Join Date: Aug 2009	Here's something, don't know if it's true. Credit to Todoko Spoiler for spoilers: By request here's the translation. Isumi and Athena's battle continues. In the end they used a strong attack so while Makina blocked it with his secret move Hayate's gang escaped. End. 'This can't be happening' says Isumi She uses 4 Takemikazuchi's. The name is also 4 sided Takemikazuhi But the attack doesn't work and Isumi is blown away by the arm And then Hayate lends Isumi a hand. "Hayate-sama..." Athena provokes Isumi, and then Isumi says that they should retreat for now The angry Isumi uses a Bao Zakeruga The name of the attack is kaminoyonanayo* Suddenly Makina appears from behind Athena "I guess I'm allowed to use my secret move!" is what he says Then an unknown shadow wraps around Isumi's dragon and destroys it. "Kaminoyonanayo was blocked?!" says Isumi and she's shocked once more. In the next scene, Hayate's gang is already gone Then a Shadow talks to Athena "Did they escape?" "It seems like it. But... it's fine. We'll see them soon anyhow. Beside Athena there seems to be a giant snake. Notes from the source: Other than the first line, the info under it isn't confirmed. Kaminoyonanayo is obviously from Japanese Mythology. In the spoilers it said Kaminonanaya but whether it's the spelling mistake of the spoilers, or of Hata we don't know. In the last episode, another move was mispelt as well. But then again we arent sure if these spoilers are true in the first place. But if there's more spoilers, I'll add it here. As for me, idk if the person meant that the move was misspelt in the chapter or the spoiler ~_~ __________________

2009-10-31, 17:47	Link #4181
Teleutao Ninja-In-Training Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ...In America!	Damn, this story is taking so long I'm finding other things to do with my time, who'd have guessed? I must say that I'm finding myself not liking Athena all that much. It's more that she's an incredibly boring character in a cast full of funny, dynamic and interesting people. Seriously, Machina and Ayumu or more fun and exciting than her (I may find Ayumu annoying but at least she makes me laugh sometimes). She just reminds me of some old cartoon villains... For example, picture those villains who have a secret lair and plot their goals and schemes. They send their minions (Machina) out to collect necessary items/capture the hero/something else that's important to the plan. Maybe the hero does get captured (before or while breaking into the secret lair) and the villains talks to them a lot and if we're really lucky we might get a snippet of what their plans and motives are. The thing is, very little of the story actually includes them because they don't do anything! The problem is, most of these villains are engaging in some way (taunting the hero, getting great lines, sarcasm in general..stuff that makes for god villains) but Athena is not. At best she's an Anti Villain, sort of like an Anti Hero but instead of a hero who is darker and more cynical think a villain that doesn't seem like such a bad person. Still, that isn't much of an excuse for her not doing anything except speak a few lines and act cool and distant (except for, like, two fan service moments) when she could be explaining everything, at least to us even if the core cast doesn't get to know yet. What's worse is that she hasn't received good development yet and the story is going to slow for us to actually learn anything useful about her. She's completely stealing the spotlight and isn't even making up for it by being well developed in that time, which is tragic as with powers like her she really should be out doing more instead of sitting in her giant house. It's sort of like some somewhat recent chapters of Naruto that have focused almost completely on Sasuke, sure his fans are happy, but he's not the title character and some of us want to see the hero actually DO things. Seriously, when was the last time Hayate actually did anything? Now he isn't even living up to 'Combat Butler'...I feel so sad for him right now because it seems that absolutely nothing can go his way right now. I know that this arc won't end well, and I get the sneaking suspicion that Athena hasn't been developed much because she won't be appearing much (if at all) after this arc for whatever reason. After all, why waste that time and energy on a character that you aren't going to keep using? All I can do now is hope that the story will eventually move on to actions and that we someday figure out why all of this is important (not likely until they actually have to go to the Royal Garden for some reason, until then we get vague hints and bits of information).

2009-10-31, 18:31	Link #4186
Koroshiya_Kame_13 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Hitman League	Its really up to the mangaka to create a character that is liked by the reader. Although readers in the English community might dislike a specific arc or character, that doesn't mean that readers in the Japanese community will dislike it too. The manga is targeted at Japanese readers, so its really their opinion that counts, evident with some manga that's well received in the English community but was cancelled due to the lack of popularity in the Japanese community.

2009-10-31, 18:53	Link #4190
Rah Are you a lolicon? :3 Join Date: Aug 2009	You answer fast. That's good. Yeah, I'll agree half to that. I liked it too, but only till around the middle. It really started to drag on with all sorts of pointless stuff. Honestly, I don't remember half of it! Sure, my memory is usually crap, but I wouldn't forget a good manga easily. The start of Mx0 is awesome! How he unscrews his head, or how he uses that fire... everyone is WTF. Then the enrollment to the school, the magic lessons, weird fights... ah, I don't remember much. Hmm, let me try to compare it with HnG a bit. (Not comparing it plot-wise, but pacing..) The start is full of misunderstandings and it's promising. Lot's of weird things happening, and the misfortune that torments Hayate is funny. More characters get introduced, and it gets livelier. Then attending the school, getting confessions, weird battles here and there. It has many decent "stand alone" chapters. But now, Hata is just throwing more and more questions at us. Stalling and stalling... and... grrr damnit... How I'm hoping that this week's spoiler text is fake!

2009-10-31, 19:21	Link #4193
zodanhko ignoring Join Date: Aug 2009	Skip the story, and skip the plot. I will pertain to call it "privileges." See, Athena is the beginning of EVERYTHING. For Bleach, I quit like 100 Million years ago...

2009-10-31, 19:32	Link #4194
Rah Are you a lolicon? :3 Join Date: Aug 2009	Mhm.. The Bleach manga is still... uh.... I won't say "okay", but it's still... just "still..." hahaha! Athena isn't the beginning of everything. The beginning related to Hayate, yeah, but as a whole manga, no. Not unless she's actually a sort of supernatural being, but we all saw her age... so... yeah... Dunno man.. I'm just disappointed in this week's chapter if it's true. Everyone is fine, and they successfully retreated? What now? Nothing is solved... Is the vacation going to end? Are we going to see Athena in Japan? Perhaps at school? That's pretty lame...

2009-10-31, 19:39	Link #4195
zodanhko ignoring Join Date: Aug 2009	Beginning of everything refers to the start of the real plot of the manga including the "stop still time of Hayate begins to move." Lol, I thought you already expected that to happen. True, it will be very disappointing if they just escape like that.

2009-10-31, 19:47	Link #4196
Rah Are you a lolicon? :3 Join Date: Aug 2009	Well, I wasn't expecting it to happen, but I certainly said it's a possibility. Worst one at that. Where's surerman? Is he on a mission to kill Hata yet? May I join? I want to stop time for him, and put a needle into every pore of his body. Ah.... the pain upon restarting time... Eheh... heheh.... Anyhow, still no spoilers. Been checking my usual 3 spoiler pages, and they're all in the dark. I'm out for now. If I find something I'll post it later. Though, probably that guy Hina_Sama, or something will do it before me. Weird.. to regularly post spoiler pics, but not partake in the convo. It sort of feels like he's throwing one steak to 10 starved dogs, and watch how they fight, or kill themselves over it. Rather amusing... hmhm...