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Old 2008-05-10, 16:19   Link #21
xxanimefan4_ever
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Welcome to the NHK is exactly what you're looking for I think.
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Old 2008-05-11, 06:58   Link #22
Sarugaki
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your description is rather vague, but in the "crazy action" department, you should try Neon Genesis Evangelion, Berserk, Baccano!

Also have a look at my list in my sig, I usually rate childish anime pretty badly so you might find a few ideas. There are exceptions though ( naruto, HxH, bleach, etc )
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Old 2008-05-11, 20:13   Link #23
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Shigurui (Crazy for death) - It was an interesting anime. It is kind of confusing and might cause some craziness, lol. <It has ALOT of violent & mature scenes>

Great Teacher Onizuka - Kind of old but original. I think this is one of the best ones out there.

Golden Boy - More of an OVA, but still very good. Similar to GTO. I believe it was aired around the time of GTO(?)
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Old 2008-05-11, 23:12   Link #24
mcruz1014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qtipbrit92 View Post
What's mature about Elfen Lied is that it follows several themes that people generally don't care about since they'd rather oggle naked lolis and flying body parts.
Spoiler for Elfen Lied:

And yes, it was probably Berserk that your friend was speaking of.

He's idiotic in pretty much every other way, though.
I wouldn't recommend this since it's similar to Shakugan no Shana, which you somehow found to be more childish than Full Metal Panic! and Code Geass
Ugh. I was going to hold my tongue, but the FMP! insults really got to me.

First off, while the core themes and material that Elfen Lied is based on are "mature", can the show really be called mature if the execution of the "deeper message" fails.

I realize that Elfen Lied is a pretty beloved show amongst many of the forum's members, but it's method of shoving the "mature themes" down your throat with insipid dialogue and sub-par writing did not sit well with me. The message isn't subtle. Most people who watch it will "get it". In fact, its so obvious that its speaks to the show's pretention to maturity. Just because one of the characters was abused as a child, and we saw it, that doesn't make the story mature. Provocative, yes. Shocking, for sure. But not mature, in my opinion. Hell, there was even some symbolism thrown in for good measure (Diclonius(es) = minorities? mistreatment of them=racism/prejudice?)

Don't get me wrong. I don't hate Elfen Lied. I don't even think its a bad show. In fact, for all its efforts, I can still think back fondly on my viewings of it. But for me, shows that achieve the label of "mature" must achieve a certain level of quality and subtlety that is beyond Elfen Lied. Many of the scenes throughout the show could be labeled as "childish" even.
Spoiler for Elfen Lied:


In my mind, Elfen Lied could have been a great show. It had all the makings of a "mature" story, but lacked the poignancy and intelligence that truly makes a piece of fiction mature (shows I would consider "mature": some have thrown around 5 Centimeters per Second, Koi Kaze, even parts of Cowboy Bebop).
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Old 2008-05-11, 23:26   Link #25
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I think we're making too many generalizations.

First of all:

Quote:
Not mature =/= childish.
Let's say that I say FMP isn't mature. What I mean is it's not specifically for older viewers, but you shouldn't be implying that it's for little kids. Personally, I think that FMP is for all ages, not really for any age groups.

Quote:
If anime A is less mature than anime B, that does NOT mean that anime A is childish.
Self-explanatory. If I think that FMP is less mature than Elfen Lied, that doesn't automatically make FMP childish.

Now I'm not saying this to everyone, but it's just something to keep in mind so we don't flame each others for something that we personally implied.
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Old 2008-05-11, 23:34   Link #26
mcruz1014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
I think we're making too many generalizations.

First of all:



Let's say that I say FMP isn't mature. What I mean is it's not specifically for older viewers, but you shouldn't be implying that it's for little kids. Personally, I think that FMP is for all ages, not really for any age groups.



Self-explanatory. If I think that FMP is less mature than Elfen Lied, that doesn't automatically make FMP childish.

Now I'm not saying this to everyone, but it's just something to keep in mind so we don't flame each others for something that we personally implied.
If I came across as flaming (haha), then I apologize because I really didn't mean to. I just wanted to use qtip's post as a reference point, as he is very good at making clear, and valid arguments of his own. I will admit that FMP! can be very, VERY childish at times, but whether an anime is "childish" or "mature" often has no impact on the enjoyment or entertainment a viewer can get out of it. Many of my favorite shows can be labeled childish, but I enjoyed them heavily nonetheless.

By the way, I also was a little more aggressive in my post because its been awhile, and I missed you guys. I guess the pseudo-flame was my way of saying hello again.

EDIT: I digress. FMP! is childish as a whole (save some parts of TSR), but I love it anyway. Flame me, I don't care.

Last edited by mcruz1014; 2008-05-11 at 23:43. Reason: EDIT: I digress. FMP! is childish as a whole (save some parts of TSR), but I love it anyway. Flame me, I don't care.
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Old 2008-05-12, 00:13   Link #27
qtipbrit
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I think I'll jump right in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcruz1014 View Post
Ugh. I was going to hold my tongue, but the FMP! insults really got to me.
We can both (all three of us, actually) that being childish in anime isn't bad (they are cartoons), so it's not really an insult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcruz1014 View Post
First off, while the core themes and material that Elfen Lied is based on are "mature", can the show really be called mature if the execution of the "deeper message" fails.
That's pretty subjective, since comprehension of this "deeper message" can differ between different people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcruz1014 View Post
I realize that Elfen Lied is a pretty beloved show amongst many of the forum's members, but it's method of shoving the "mature themes" down your throat with insipid dialogue and sub-par writing did not sit well with me. The message isn't subtle. Most people who watch it will "get it".
I agree that several of Elfen Lied's themes are quite blatant, though
[SPOILER=Elfen Lied]One can't expect a younger (no, even younger) viewer to really understand the significance of what happened between Mayu and her step father, much less how it affects her later on.[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcruz1014 View Post
In fact, its so obvious that its speaks to the show's pretention to maturity. Just because one of the characters was abused as a child, and we saw it, that doesn't make the story mature. Provocative, yes. Shocking, for sure. But not mature, in my opinion. Hell, there was even some symbolism thrown in for good measure (Diclonius(es) = minorities? mistreatment of them=racism/prejudice?)
One could say so about most anime works. Most of the symbolism of ef was almost shoved into your face (soo many allegories, recurring motifs, and quite the blatant theme of finding and achieving dreams.), and I'm quite sure that biblical references aren't the most subtle considering that it's the world's bestselling novel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcruz1014 View Post
Many of the scenes throughout the show could be labeled as "childish" even.
Spoiler for Elfen Lied:
No wayz, fanservice is so mature, I would never let a kid watch a fanservicey anime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcruz1014 View Post
In my mind, Elfen Lied could have been a great show. It had all the makings of a "mature" story, but lacked the poignancy and intelligence that truly makes a piece of fiction mature (shows I would consider "mature": some have thrown around 5 Centimeters per Second, Koi Kaze, even parts of Cowboy Bebop).
Ah crap, I still haven't seen Cowboy Bebop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcruz1014 View Post
By the way, I also was a little more aggressive in my post because its been awhile, and I missed you guys. I guess the pseudo-flame was my way of saying hello again.
Oh hey, you suck too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcruz1014 View Post
EDIT: I digress. FMP! is childish as a whole (save some parts of TSR), but I love it anyway. Flame me, I don't care.
Childish anime are superior because they're generally more fun, eh?
I consider four or five of my top 13 anime to be childish in some way, and I'm proud.
Most of the anime I find more enjoyable are childish, and while I place Air, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, 5 Centimeters per Second, etc. among my favourites, I can't say they were the most enjoyable series.

By the way, you also need a new sig.
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Old 2008-05-12, 01:53   Link #28
HayashiTakara
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FMP is far beyond childish.. are we watching the same series? Perhaps Fumuffu was a bit childish, but FMP isn't. The winds of the homeland arc, was deep and epic in season 1. Hell even the first arc where Kaname was kidnapped was intense. TSR was a total mind blast, I still can't get over the crazed scientist masterbating to pictures of kittens, or how he was playing with the girls dead body and accidentally broke her neck, and lets not Forget Sousukes anger at his old nemsis *bang bang bang bang - click click click*...
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Old 2008-05-12, 06:15   Link #29
Navel
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"something NOT childish" does need a definition from the original poster to understand what he meant. There is too much guessing in this thread for it to be of any use.
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Old 2008-05-12, 06:34   Link #30
Marina
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I would try Utawarerumono if I were you. It is mostly serious, but it does have many humorous parts and there's a good deal of action.

There is also Spice and Wolf which has romance and humor, and a good deal of drama.

I second the previously said choices of Baccano! and Monster.
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Old 2008-05-12, 09:42   Link #31
KeroKai
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That's pretty harsh. An anime show that creates any form of thinking would be deemed as mature, even if they shove the message towards you to expand thinking.

I rant. How the heck is idealism considered childish?
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Old 2008-05-12, 15:39   Link #32
mcruz1014
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Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by qtipbrit92 View Post
Ah crap, I still haven't seen Cowboy Bebop.

Oh hey, you suck too.

I consider four or five of my top 13 anime to be childish in some way, and I'm proud.
Yeah, that should be moved up to the top of your to-watch list. Immediately.

And you have a top 13 anime list? What a random number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
FMP is far beyond childish.. are we watching the same series? Perhaps Fumuffu was a bit childish, but FMP isn't. The winds of the homeland arc, was deep and epic in season 1. Hell even the first arc where Kaname was kidnapped was intense. TSR was a total mind blast, I still can't get over the crazed scientist masterbating to pictures of kittens, or how he was playing with the girls dead body and accidentally broke her neck, and lets not Forget Sousukes anger at his old nemsis *bang bang bang bang - click click click*...
You're right. Seems like I've caught a bad case of foot-in-mouth my last couple of posts. You don't need to defend FMP! against me, as its my most favoritest series, evar.
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Old 2008-05-12, 15:57   Link #33
james0246
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I am suprised that Gasaraki has not been mentioned. It represents the ultimate form of maturity: dry action that is semi-realistic without any trace of humour . Additionally, the Patlabor movies deserve a mention (I and II, especially the second film which deals with how a government/country deals with a terrorist threat.)

That being said, it is not really message that makes a show mature or not (if that was true, the first few Gundam series would all be considered fairly mature shows), rather it is the effort on the part of the director and writers (and actors) to create realistic emotions and circumstances that are similiar to real life. Despite shows such as Elfen Lied or Now and Then, Here and There having horrific incidents, there are not really mature. Rather a show such as 5 cm/sec is mature since it deals with a realistic situation in a fairly realistic manner.
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Old 2008-05-12, 20:22   Link #34
yezhanquan
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Urasawa Naoki's Monster. If there's anything childish about this series, PLEASE let me know.
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Old 2008-05-12, 21:01   Link #35
qtipbrit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navel View Post
"something NOT childish" does need a definition from the original poster to understand what he meant. There is too much guessing in this thread for it to be of any use.
He did gibe his own definition, it's just that it's far from what "not childish" means to most other people, so after about 10 fitting recommendations, we've began discussing other non-childish anime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeroKai View Post
I rant. How the heck is idealism considered childish?
Really?
Idealism is the most childish form of thinking. One who has yet to understood how the world works is often only able to think in ideals: "make world peace!", "no more racism/sexism/religious persecution/etc.!", "no more WMD!", "stop government corruption!", "LET'S ALL MAEK T3H PURFECT WORLD!", the list goes on and on. Granted, ideals are how everyone should want the world to be like, but idealists are the only ones who actually believe it to be possible.
Now before you all start labelling me as a God-hating cynic, I prefer to be called a realist like all the others who think "realist"ically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcruz1014 View Post
Yeah, that should be moved up to the top of your to-watch list. Immediately.
mmm...
Eh.

Maybe later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcruz1014 View Post
And you have a top 13 anime list? What a random number.
Three 10's and ten 9's.
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Old 2008-05-13, 00:59   Link #36
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qtipbrit92 View Post
Really?
Idealism is the most childish form of thinking. One who has yet to understood how the world works is often only able to think in ideals: "make world peace!", "no more racism/sexism/religious persecution/etc.!", "no more WMD!", "stop government corruption!", "LET'S ALL MAEK T3H PURFECT WORLD!", the list goes on and on. Granted, ideals are how everyone should want the world to be like, but idealists are the only ones who actually believe it to be possible.
Now before you all start labelling me as a God-hating cynic, I prefer to be called a realist like all the others who think "realist"ically.
You bring up several interesting points. Specifically, does maturity necessitate a lack of strong ideals, or at least strong overwhelming ideals concerning such things as world peace, etc.? As a possible rejoinder, I offer up the second half of Trigun. Not obstensibly a "mature" anime or manga, but the second half of Trigun is well known for the shows sharp turn toward the dark-side of human emotions. And of course, the famous episode 24 in which the main character Vash finally takes a life after preaching his message of "Love and Peace" and no-killing. The fact that this series was able to deal with the issues of violence as well as idealsim and self-sacrafice as possible, if slightly unrealsitic, ways to solve the seemingly unsolvable violence caused by hate and fear, lends a distinct edge of maturity to the series. And the eventual outcome of idealism mixed with the understanding that sometimes an extreme action is required, is quite provacative.

Last edited by james0246; 2008-05-13 at 02:43.
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Old 2008-05-13, 17:44   Link #37
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I agree with most of these. Death note is mature, elfen lied, Kimi ga, bokura ga ita.


But one name floats in the back of my head.


Koi Kaze, not once in all the years i've watched anime has a more serious anime come across my eyes.
Love is a powerful thing, and this anime shows how powerful in more ways than one.
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Old 2008-05-14, 06:56   Link #38
KeroKai
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Quote:
Really?
Idealism is the most childish form of thinking. One who has yet to understood how the world works is often only able to think in ideals: "make world peace!", "no more racism/sexism/religious persecution/etc.!", "no more WMD!", "stop government corruption!", "LET'S ALL MAEK T3H PURFECT WORLD!", the list goes on and on. Granted, ideals are how everyone should want the world to be like, but idealists are the only ones who actually believe it to be possible.
Now before you all start labelling me as a God-hating cynic, I prefer to be called a realist like all the others who think "realist"ically.
To be frank. Kira who possessed ideals could have essentially taken over the world and created his version of a 'perfect world' as he had the ability to do so. You've only mentioned that idealism is childish because people don't action on that particular value. I don't see the connection between idealism and being naive, one can have excellent understanding of the world but still strive for them and I'm sure there are many situations that support this, negatively and positively.

You can keep your 'realism'. It's only another lens to viewing the world.
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Old 2008-05-14, 11:57   Link #39
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I second Koi Kaze.
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Old 2008-05-14, 19:04   Link #40
qtipbrit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
You bring up several interesting points. Specifically, does maturity necessitate a lack of strong ideals, or at least strong overwhelming ideals concerning such things as world peace, etc.?
In my opinion, maturity necessitates the lack of unrealistic ideals. For example, the president would not be idealistic were he to wish to lower the national deficit by pulling out of Iraq with a means to quell conflict within it, improve or at least keep constant current foreign relations, raise taxes without causing problems within the US, and a long list of things. Of course, if he hopes to do so without the means to provide these things, he is idealistic and immature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
As a possible rejoinder, I offer up the second half of Trigun. Not obstensibly a "mature" anime or manga, but the second half of Trigun is well known for the shows sharp turn toward the dark-side of human emotions. And of course, the famous episode 24 in which the main character Vash finally takes a life after preaching his message of "Love and Peace" and no-killing. The fact that this series was able to deal with the issues of violence as well as idealsim and self-sacrafice as possible, if slightly unrealsitic, ways to solve the seemingly unsolvable violence caused by hate and fear, lends a distinct edge of maturity to the series. And the eventual outcome of idealism mixed with the understanding that sometimes an extreme action is required, is quite provacative.
Now I haven't seen Trigun, but what you say sounds correct. I believe that idealistic beliefs are part of human nature as a whole, as we are "intelligent beings", and thus we are able to wish for (what we may believe is) a better world.
When one's actions aren't guided by idealism alone, it's possible to reach some sort of median that allows a realistic and good result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeroKai View Post
To be frank. Kira who possessed ideals could have essentially taken over the world and created his version of a 'perfect world' as he had the ability to do so. You've only mentioned that idealism is childish because people don't action on that particular value. I don't see the connection between idealism and being naive, one can have excellent understanding of the world but still strive for them and I'm sure there are many situations that support this, negatively and positively.
Incorrect. As a part of their nature (from a humanistic standpoint), all people have some sort of sense of idealism, stemming from their first introduction to the idea of "right vs. wrong". I have ideals and I think all of the things I've said above is the best for our world, but is it possible? Could I prance into North Korea and ask Kim Jong-Il to make peace with the UN, convince him to discard his nuclear weapons and have the rest of the world do the same? I doubt it.
Take communism. Can we (who are largely from capitalist and socialist economies agree that communism isn't the most effective system? Of course, to many it was a perfect utopia on paper ("The economy needs competition to progress" arguments aside), but I'm sure we're all aware it didn't work out so well when applied.

Since I ranted a bit on useless political crap...
In sum, we all have ideals. Idealists are the ones who act solely upon their ideals, leaving common sense behind.
People will generally rally behind idealists who have the means to carry out their ideals (Raito-kun, Ronald Reagan), often shunning those who do not (Shinji of Fate/Stay Night).

And yes, Koi Kaze and stuff.
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