To Aru Majutsu no Index II - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[outerelf]

Maybe I have worse eyes then all of you guys, because whenever I watch the fight scenes, I don't see anything wrong with it. Then again, I never much notice the animation.

Overall, it feels pretty solid to me. It was understandable plot-line, and you didn't have to read the LN to understand what was going on (in my humble opinion)

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by orion

It also would have been nice if the curator had held "St. Peter's cross" in the proper orientation.

You mean upside down? Yeah It was sort of addressed when they were trying to figure out how the Cross would be activated, which they think has to do with the way Saint Peter died/executed. But realistically speaking, it's probably not a good idea to hold it in that manner don't you think ?

Really I'm surprised that their are people complaining about the plot twist of having the [Stab Sword] being a fake and misleading people, I personally like the fact that Toaru always throws people off their initial assumptions and interpretations.

[Dist]

Bleh.. I'm really getting annoyed and tired of Touma and his speeches on every single episode to some bad guy who gets innocents involved or w/e .. Well duh, they're the bad guys. And don't get me even started on his hand ... Yeah sure, he can dispel all magical effects, but it just makes no sense he can beat anyone he wants with an ability like that .. one punch on the face usually does it, and they're done .. I was expecting that woman to be done for too, surprisingly she wasn't .. yet anyway.

I only follow this now for Misaka .. and with that said, awful episode except for the part with Touma / Misaka at the restaurant.

[I_am_Kami]

Originally Posted by Dist

Bleh.. I'm really getting annoyed and tired of Touma and his speeches on every single episode to some bad guy who gets innocents involved or w/e .. Well duh, they're the bad guys. And don't get me even started on his hand ... Yeah sure, he can dispel all magical effects, but it just makes no sense he can beat anyone he wants with an ability like that .. one punch on the face usually does it, and they're done .. I was expecting that woman to be done for too, surprisingly she wasn't .. yet anyway.

I only follow this now for Misaka .. and with that said, awful episode except for the part with Touma / Misaka at the restaurant.

Damn, your worse than Salt

[orion]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

You mean upside down? Yeah It was sort of addressed when they were trying to figure out how the Cross would be activated, which they think has to do with the way Saint Peter died/executed. But realistically speaking, it's probably not a good idea to hold it in that manner don't you think ?

St. Peter's cross is in it's correct orientation on top of churches. The guy could have held it by its sides safely.

I think it's about time Index got out of that habit. It's not useful anymore for protection as Touma destroyed it in season 1. Hope to see her in more secular outfits in the future.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by orion

St. Peter's cross is in it's correct orientation on top of churches. The guy could have held it by its sides safely.

That's a replicate he's holding

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

Damn, your worse than Salt

On Salt's favour, at least he expresses that he doesn't likes shonen heroes and wants the antiheroic type; in the other hand... is just a random shipper.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

That's a replicate he's holding

I figured that part out already.

[I_am_Kami]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

On Salt's favour, at least he expresses that he doesn't likes shonen heroes and wants the antiheroic type; in the other hand... is just a random shipper.

He doesn't dissect toumas bowels. He says it in a nice way so i respect Salts opinions all the time.

[Guardian Enzo]

Oriana certainly proved herself to be a mistress of double entendres in addition to dressing like a slutty jungle explorer. And Touma is surely setting some kind of record for punching girls in the face.

Loved the interaction with Touma, Index and Mikoto. A hilarious war of words between Biri-biri and Index (still dressed as the most kawaii cheerleader ever). Let the shipping wars commence! Not so wild about the plot device though - it's a cross that will somehow, through quasi-mystical means, allow the Roman Catholics to rule the world while everyone else just says "Thank you Sir, may I have another?"

[SuzushinaYuriko]

Originally Posted by Dist

Bleh.. I'm really getting annoyed and tired of Touma and his speeches on every single episode to some bad guy who gets innocents involved or w/e .. Well duh, they're the bad guys. And don't get me even started on his hand ... Yeah sure, he can dispel all magical effects, but it just makes no sense he can beat anyone he wants with an ability like that .. one punch on the face usually does it, and they're done .. I was expecting that woman to be done for too, surprisingly she wasn't .. yet anyway.

I only follow this now for Misaka .. and with that said, awful episode except for the part with Touma / Misaka at the restaurant.

Really now. Another person who follows Index only for Mikoto and doesn't care about the story or the detailed background behind it at all. It's people like these that make me dislike Mikoto even more.

Yeah sure, he can dispel all magical effects, but it just makes no sense he can beat anyone he wants with an ability like that

People should read before they post.

The anime did not show Touma's strategy in beating her. He figured out that Oriana cannot use the same spell twice. This basically means that there won’t be a similar attack coming from the same direction, so Touma moved along those places that were attacked before and predicted the movements of future attacks.

one punch on the face usually does it, and they're done .. I was expecting that woman to be done for too, surprisingly she wasn't .. yet anyway.

Oriana has stated that she's used to taking physical counterattacks. She's more sturdy than a lot of the foes Touma has taken down.

Not so wild about the plot device though - it's a cross that will somehow, through quasi-mystical means, allow the Roman Catholics to rule the world while everyone else just says "Thank you Sir, may I have another?"

Originally Posted by Liquidzero

i agree, to aru is pretty much spy vs spy with magic against science.

i had to look up ass pull in urban dictionary. i don't see how the stab sword actually being st peter's cross, or the power of the item is an ass pull. the power of the item makes perfect sense. when you consider that Catholic tradition holds that Jesus gave the right to create a church to Peter and he is considered the first Pope, the concept of where ever you plant it automatically makes it a territory beneficial to the Roman Catholics makes perfect sense.

i think the fact that it looks like a sword was even more clever. when we're shown the sword it's pointing down, to draw the reader/anime viewer to its properties of looking like a cross. however, usually we see swords pointing upwards (like during a battle charge) and the actual symbol of St. Peter's cross is an inverted cross. when you consider the actions of oriana and her contact pretty much is a conquest for territory the imagery is appropriate.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Loved the interaction with Touma, Index and Mikoto. A hilarious war of words between Biri-biri and Index (still dressed as the most kawaii cheerleader ever). Let the shipping wars commence! Not so wild about the plot device though - it's a cross that will somehow, through quasi-mystical means, allow the Roman Catholics to rule the world while everyone else just says "Thank you Sir, may I have another?"

The effect is that not matter what happens on those soil, it will benefit the Rome Catholic Church, it's not exactly mind control.

It would only directly affect Academy City, but because the Rome Catholic Church is already the top dog in the magic world, controlling Academy City would allow them to control the Science side as well which is the other half.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Dist

Bleh.. I'm really getting annoyed and tired of Touma and his speeches on every single episode to some bad guy who gets innocents involved or w/e .. Well duh, they're the bad guys. And don't get me even started on his hand ... Yeah sure, he can dispel all magical effects, but it just makes no sense he can beat anyone he wants with an ability like that .. one punch on the face usually does it, and they're done .. I was expecting that woman to be done for too, surprisingly she wasn't .. yet anyway.

I only follow this now for Misaka .. and with that said, awful episode except for the part with Touma / Misaka at the restaurant.

Go watch Railgun anime then....Your in the wrong title.

[Dist]

You're wrong. I do care for the story, but Touma .. just ugh.

What I hate most about him and his ability is that it somehow makes him godlike. I wasn't speaking particularly about this arc but the whole series .. Look at all the foes he's faced in the past, can you seriously claim they all were physically so weak that one punch in a face would take them down ? It's not like Touma works out either or anything =_= .. He even beat Accelerator ... with just an effing punch .. how lame is that ?

I don't remember much about that arc, or even how his ability is supposed to work but surely Accelerator could have beaten Touma .. or any of those other foes. His hand is supposed to dispel, if you used your magic to launch something at Touma like a car, how would he dispel that ? What would he be dispelling ?

.. Well I guess I shouldn't have posted here in the first place. All the Touma fangirls/boys going crazy, oh dear. It seems I'm not entitled to an opinion that is negative about Touma because he happens to be, sadly, the main character of this series.

Ps. I watched Railgun, and I am annoyed that it did not get second season like Index did.

[outerelf]

It seems that a flame war about Touma is beginning to break out.

Personally I like Touma. But this thread isn't about him.

The thing with anime episodes is that they ought to be able to be followed without having to read supplemental material. The LN and the anime ought to be completely seperate from each other, each able to hold their own. Unfortunately, soemtimes the plot of the LN doesn't translate well into the anime.

I will say however that I don't think this is too confusing. Unlike with the Orsola arc, all the important information is there. You might have to watch the subtitles closely instead of hoping for flashy fights, but really.

This anime is not just flashy fights. If you want that, go to a different anime. First and foremost, this anime likes convoluted plots that will send you reeling, straighten things out for you just a little, and then send another curveball your way.

I've always gotten the feeling that the fights were quasi-important to the plot.

But, just like earlier when people were complaining about fanservice, there is an unfortunate fact about all anime; it was made to sell. If it will sell with fanservice, then they will put the fanservice in. It's mission first and foremost is to sell, and secondly to please the purists (if at all) Purist People's pleasure watching it is wanted, but not required if it sells. Right?

anyways, I'm getting off topic.

The episode did a poor job of showing how Touma fought, but the thing is, it's still understandable on how he was able to do it. Hurt friends = pissed Touma. Pissed Touma = beat-up bad guy/girl.

And if Touma was able to see the lines of magic, it doesn't really matter to him, does it? Because if he can see it, he can negate it. That's all.

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka

Excuse me? Have you ever read the light novels? You have no right to criticize something you've never seen.

They intentionally made it look like "Stab Sword" was being traded instead of "St. Peter's Cross" to throw people off the fact that this is an operation for the Roman Catholic Church to take over Academy City while its security is lowered due to Daihaseisai. How is it poorly executed?

Yes, actually. I did just recently go read a few of the light novels since I was dissatisfied with the anime adaption and I was hoping the novel would be better. (Similar to the Chrome Shelled Regios novels vs anime).

Cue banging my head against a wall. Talk about a wall of text. Repeated violation of the "show, don't tell rule" (a common problem actually with Japanese light novels, but it was even more egregious in this instance).

Digressions into world building and descriptions that are the equal of Tolkien (not that I really mind that too much, except that the descriptive prose did not come anywhere near to matching Tolkien's, although that is more the fault of the translation, so I don't really hold that too much against the author).

The dialogue was rather wordy and stilted though. Just like in the anime. Somethings are explained better. Other things are even more needlessly complicated in the novels then in the anime. Making the anime better in some areas I think. But compared to other light novels I've read I was disappointed.

Originally Posted by kitten320

^I don't think that story is SO different in anime and novels

But he is kind of right, it becomes repetitive... we hear about one weapon and then suddenly it is something else...

Actually didn't really understand how they realized it...

It's used over and over again. The same pattern. We're given a plot line. The good guys. The bad guys. Then we suddenly learn that the bad guys are really the good guys. Sometimes the people we thought were good guys are bad guys, other times it's just all a misunderstanding. It's supposed to be all gray and gray morality- which should be an interesting contrast given Touma's rather adamant and dogmatic view of morality.

But it's not executed well. If anything it's even worse in the light novels. It makes no sense in the novels in the first arc why Stiyl and Kaori attack Index and terrorize her before wiping her memories. If anything the anime manages to make it slightly more believable, even if there are still some logic holes.

It should leave you thinking about whether Touma is right about morality being rigid and absolute, or if his enemies/allies are right about it being malleable and dependent on the reference point. Instead you think: "They're all a bunch of idiots!"

The series is ripe with things like this, like Accelerator turning out to not be such a bad guy. He killed something like 1000 Misaka sisters. Spending even a little time thinking about it and you have to conclude that there were other options for him to take. Other options that were far, far more moral. If he's not a bad person, why didn't he do that?

Or Amakusa holding Orsola captive, but then somehow they are actually the good guys. No time is spent on the dissonance in the actions. I'm not saying it couldn't have been a good plot twist but there was no attempt to develop it properly. It's just a sudden twist. The author is attempting a Shocking Swerve in the story, but instead it comes off as an Ass Pull.

For example the sudden switch from the "Stab Sword" threat to "Peter's Cross". Why wasn't there an foreshadowing? When we first got the info dump about the Stab Sword why wasn't there any discussion about how the real Stab Sword has never been seen, and that the replica was made from bits an pieces of description? Why didn't Oriana make a comment when she was on her cell phone about leading them on a wild goose chase?

Give the viewer something to hint that not all is as it seems.

And also, maybe for a change we could have a straightforward story where the original plotline is the accurate plotline, and not a red herring?

Not to mention all the plot lines that are only held together with mountains of Scotch Tape.

Look, I'm not saying the author is bad. He's really imaginative and has created an amazing world setting. He has also created memorable and interesting characters.

But his plots suck. Mainly because he can't seem to pick something and stick with it, that or when he does a twist he just sticks it in without foreshadowing, or developing the preceding part of the story to flow well with the twist he includes. It's like he has all these cool ideas in his head and he just goes with it- because it's cool, and who cares if it makes sense. Who cares if it's a plot breaking power?

Really? Peter's Cross and suddenly mind control over all of Academy City? Magic is made cool by the limits that are placed on it. Either you need a strict system, or you have to keep it vague and mysterious like in Lord of the Rings. A Certain Magical Index by it's nature needs a strict system with limitations and drawbacks to magic, particularly to something as powerful as this.

Look, I admire his ability to create these worlds. I couldn't do it. But I am not without literary skill. I have the heart and soul of an editor. I'm the guy who people bring their stories too and I point out all the flaws and holes and will even help patch it up.

A Certain Magical Index suffers from very poor editing. An editor needed to stand up to Kazuma Kamachi and tell him to rewrite his plots to make sense and flow correctly. I recommend Shiori Shiomiya. She'd tell him off right.


Frankly it reminds me of the Star Wars prequels. There is a diamond under all the crap in those prequels. They have a good core. But nobody was brave enough to tell George Lucas that he needed to spend more time polishing and fixing the plot holes, the pacing, and dialogue problems.

So now everybody is dissatisfied with the prequels. Not because they are horrible movies, but because they so clearly could have been better.

[I_am_Kami]

Originally Posted by Dist

You're wrong. I do care for the story, but Touma .. just ugh.

What I hate most about him and his ability is that it somehow makes him godlike. I wasn't speaking particularly about this arc but the whole series .. Look at all the foes he's faced in the past, can you seriously claim they all were physically so weak that one punch in a face would take them down ? It's not like Touma works out either or anything =_= .. He even beat Accelerator ... with just an effing punch .. how lame is that ?

I don't remember much about that arc, or even how his ability is supposed to work but surely Accelerator could have beaten Touma .. or any of those other foes. His hand is supposed to dispel, if you used your magic to launch something at Touma like a car, how would he dispel that ? What would he be dispelling ?

.. Well I guess I shouldn't have posted here in the first place. All the Touma fangirls/boys going crazy, oh dear. It seems I'm not entitled to an opinion that is negative about Touma because he happens to be, sadly, the main character of this series.

Ps. I watched Railgun, and I am annoyed that it did not get second season like Index did.

1) We don't mind you not liking him,just know your facts first and troll about it.
2)His ability is simple, Dispels Holy,magic,and esper abilities.
3)He beat accel after several punches. He also, was losing and almost died till mikoto was a decoy.
4)He's strong because he is a streetfighter though idk if they mention that in the anime so i'll give you that one.
5)True if you launched a car at him he'd die so thats why he dodged all the rails accel flung at him.
6) As someone has said all magicians are weak usually since they focus on magic and knowledge. Let's use the term brain over brawn. Espers and magicians use the "brain". Toumas hand negates that "brain" power leaving them with nothing and brawn > nothing.

[Shinji103]

I'm not going to bother with all of that first part of Dist's post, but his PS concerns fact and not opinion.

Originally Posted by Dist

Ps. I watched Railgun, and I am annoyed that it did not get second season like Index did.

*sigh* You know a (semi-)trolling fanboy when they don't even bother to use logic in what they say.

JC Staff waited 1 1/2 years after Index S1 before starting S2; Railgun S1 has been over for only a bit over half a year. So you're annoyed that Railgun has to wait before getting its S2 like many other series-es? And not just Index; Zero no Tsukaima, Shakugan no Shana, Hayate no Gotoku, even Code Geass and Gundam 00.

Fanboy issues here; take a dose of patience and wait for Railgun S2 like we waited for Index S2, instead of acting like Railgun and/or its fanboys/fangirls deserve special treatment or something.

[I_am_Kami]

Originally Posted by Sackett

Yes, actually. I did just recently go read a few of the light novels since I was dissatisfied with the anime adaption and I was hoping the novel would be better. (Similar to the Chrome Shelled Regios novels vs anime).

Cue banging my head against a wall. Talk about a wall of text. Repeated violation of the "show, don't tell rule" (a common problem actually with Japanese light novels, but it was even more egregious in this instance).

Digressions into world building and descriptions that are the equal of Tolkien (not that I really mind that too much, except that the descriptive prose did not come anywhere near to matching Tolkien's, although that is more the fault of the translation, so I don't really hold that too much against the author).

The dialogue was rather wordy and stilted though. Just like in the anime. Somethings are explained better. Other things are even more needlessly complicated in the novels then in the anime. Making the anime better in some areas I think. But compared to other light novels I've read I was disappointed.




It's used over and over again. The same pattern. We're given a plot line. The good guys. The bad guys. Then we suddenly learn that the bad guys are really the good guys. Sometimes the people we thought were good guys are bad guys, other times it's just all a misunderstanding. It's supposed to be all gray and gray morality- which should be an interesting contrast given Touma's rather adamant and dogmatic view of morality.

But it's not executed well. If anything it's even worse in the light novels. It makes no sense in the novels in the first arc why Stiyl and Kaori attack Index and terrorize her before wiping her memories. If anything the anime manages to make it slightly more believable, even if there are still some logic holes.

It should leave you thinking about whether Touma is right about morality being rigid and absolute, or if his enemies/allies are right about it being malleable and dependent on the reference point. Instead you think: "They're all a bunch of idiots!"

The series is ripe with things like this, like Accelerator turning out to not be such a bad guy. He killed something like 1000 Misaka sisters. Spending even a little time thinking about it and you have to conclude that there were other options for him to take. Other options that were far, far more moral. If he's not a bad person, why didn't he do that?

Or Amakusa holding Orsola captive, but then somehow they are actually the good guys. No time is spent on the dissonance in the actions. I'm not saying it couldn't have been a good plot twist but there was no attempt to develop it properly. It's just a sudden twist. The author is attempting a Shocking Swerve in the story, but instead it comes off as an Ass Pull.

For example the sudden switch from the "Stab Sword" threat to "Peter's Cross". Why wasn't there an foreshadowing? When we first got the info dump about the Stab Sword why wasn't there any discussion about how the real Stab Sword has never been seen, and that the replica was made from bits an pieces of description? Why didn't Oriana make a comment when she was on her cell phone about leading them on a wild goose chase?

Give the viewer something to hint that not all is as it seems.

And also, maybe for a change we could have a straightforward story where the original plotline is the accurate plotline, and not a red herring?

Not to mention all the plot lines that are only held together with mountains of Scotch Tape.

Look, I'm not saying the author is bad. He's really imaginative and has created an amazing world setting. He has also created memorable and interesting characters.

But his plots suck. Mainly because he can't seem to pick something and stick with it, that or when he does a twist he just sticks it in without foreshadowing, or developing the preceding part of the story to flow well with the twist he includes. It's like he has all these cool ideas in his head and he just goes with it- because it's cool, and who cares if it makes sense. Who cares if it's a plot breaking power?

Really? Peter's Cross and suddenly mind control over all of Academy City? Magic is made cool by the limits that are placed on it. Either you need a strict system, or you have to keep it vague and mysterious like in Lord of the Rings. A Certain Magical Index by it's nature needs a strict system with limitations and drawbacks to magic, particularly to something as powerful as this.

Look, I admire his ability to create these worlds. I couldn't do it. But I am not without literary skill. I have the heart and soul of an editor. I'm the guy who people bring their stories too and I point out all the flaws and holes and will even help patch it up.

A Certain Magical Index suffers from very poor editing. An editor needed to stand up to Kazuma Kamachi and tell him to rewrite his plots to make sense and flow correctly.


Frankly it reminds me of the Star Wars prequels. There is a diamond under all the crap in those prequels. They have a good core. But nobody was brave enough to tell George Lucas that he needed to spend more time polishing and fixing the plot holes, the pacing, and dialogue problems.

So now everybody is dissatisfied with the prequels. Not because they are horrible movies, but because they so clearly could have been better.

You say its terrible and someone should tell the author, but A certain anime-fanatic country thinks otherwise.
CLick the below link please.

http://toarumajutsunoindex.wikia.com..._Novel_Contest

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

You say its terrible and someone should tell the author, but A certain anime-fanatic country thinks otherwise.
CLick the below link please.

http://toarumajutsunoindex.wikia.com..._Novel_Contest

Awesome sauce. Link saved to favorites.

As a Kuroko fanboy though, I'm obligated to say it sucks she didn't make the top female characters list.