AnimeSuki Forums

ashesatdusk · 2007-06-04, 05:02

When we examine the mastery of a Zanpaktou... there seem to be 4 stages
We know manga, that Hichigo and Zangetsu are part of each other

1. In order to release a zanpoktou, one has to be able to hear its name.
2. In order to master Shikai, one must trust their Zanpaktou's spirit.
3. In order to hope to achieve bankai one must (through normal methods) achieve
materialization.
4. In order to achieve Bankai one must conquer their Zanpaktou, or make thier zanpaktou submit to their will...
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Essentially 4 stages.... so we can safely assume that theirs more than one stage to hollow powers.

So far Ichigo has forced his hollow to his submission which seems to be opposite order from Zanpaktou. So what are speculation do we have what the rest of his powers may be. So far he hasn't mastered his hollows powers. (The ability to put on the mask for more than 11 seconds). That leaves me with two big quesions?

Is the ability to keep the hollow mask on for extended periods of time just an initial state, or can we see it as something like Shikai?

Is their something similair to Bankai which would be mastery of powers?
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My theory holds an assumption that hollow and shinigami powers are some what analogous to one another. I have a feeling that the Viazard's ability to put on a mask is just an initial state (i.e. like gaining Shinigami powers), and my feeling that their first release state is the ability to control a full hollow form... and their is one more state. Any thoughts or Speculations?

cheese4u · 2007-06-04, 10:18

I once thought about this too, but that was more or less to explain why Ichigo is so weak compared to the other Vaizard. I think there is something that the vaizard know about hollow powers that they're not telling Ichigo. Ichigo has all the proper equipment to be powerful shikai, bankai, and hollow powers but he still seems to be weak. Shinji with just his hollow mask on appears to be stronger than Ichigo with his hollow mask plus bankai. I'd hate to think that all of those people are just naturally stronger than Ichigo, so I'm sure there's more to this that's being let on.

Arakial · 2009-12-22, 18:01

With the last few mangas, Kaname was shown to have two new forms--a 'shell'(as opposed to a 'mask') release and a resurreccion. This brought up Ichigo's new form vis a vis Kaname's first form to mind. Save for the hole(which was artificially induced anyways) the two forms are almost identical in style. So does that imply Ichigo will have a separate resurreccion?

Tosen's first new form:
LINK REMOVED(I think this one's against the rules) Just look at the spoilers for episode 385.
Kurosaki's new form:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrUo5fyZdco

sayde · 2009-12-22, 18:21

There's no way of knowing anything at this point IMO. The problem is we have to account for the possibility that things may have changed a bit thanks to Aizen improving the hollowfication process.

Tousen's "shell" could be the equivalent to the Vizard's masks and Ichigo's new form could be the equivalent to Tousen's resurrección...or it may not be the case at all. That is to say, it's also definitely possible for Ichigo's new form to be nothing more than the equivalent to Tousen's first form.

It's also possible that Ichigo's new form could indeed be a resurrección and he may have yet another resurrección to unlock in the future (because Ulquiorra proves it's possible).

KT's going to have to explain this crap sooner or later. So I'll wait for that.

Zek · 2009-12-25, 16:42

I think Ichigo's new form is simply his resurreccion. He has a full hollow body, it just so happens that his is humanoid.

Kurohitsugi · 2009-12-25, 21:00

Quote:

So far Ichigo has forced his hollow to his submission which seems to be opposite order from Zanpaktou

Yeah, I thought about that too.
What if the first step for shinigamis is the last step for perfect hollowfication... that is, know the name of your hollow?

Because when Byakuya asked "Who are you?", Hichigo answered "I have no name". But possibly, he doesn't want to say it.

Quote:

I think Ichigo's new form is simply his resurreccion. He has a full hollow body, it just so happens that his is humanoid.

That leaves the question, what was the form Ichigo was in when he trained with the vaizards... and was it higher or lower than his form against Ulquiorra?

Ban kai · 2010-01-02, 20:09

correct me if im wrong, but ichigo could no longer put on his mask in the later chapters. that has to mean something, and he also mentioned that his mask felt heavier the last time he put it on

yaluckyboy · 2010-01-02, 21:03

I believe that the time he broke out of his mindless "ressurection" form could represent him overpowering his hollow form and gaining access to his power. Just like overpowering hollow ichigo so he can usde the mask, maybe he now has control of the new "ressurection" form but just doesn't realise it yet.

I also believe that the fact that his mask feels "heavy" could represent his new power that he doesn't yet understand. Once he used the "ressurection" form once again, he might understand the changes and figure out how to control it's new powers.

kamyu · 2010-01-02, 22:12

new mask, new 10 second limit? lol

Wargumm1i · 2010-01-02, 22:19

I believe that the form that Ichigo took on and the power he displayed that easily overpowered Ulquiorra at his very strongest, more like toyed with him, when he was killed for a moment. Was an unstable and incomplete form of his ressurection release and that his hollow power was unstable from the beginning and that his mask evolved into its right form after he lost it while protecting Orihime and now he has too take some training with his inner selves in order too gain his control over his hollow mask or power.

yaluckyboy · 2010-01-02, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wargumm1i

I believe that the form that Ichigo took on and the power he displayed that easily overpowered Ulquiorra at his very strongest, more like toyed with him, when he was killed for a moment. Was an unstable and incomplete form of his ressurection release and that his hollow power was unstable from the beginning and that his mask evolved into its right form after he lost it while protecting Orihime and now he has too take some training with his inner selves in order too gain his control over his hollow mask or power.

that is a very interesting idea,

i would love to see the fight ichigo would have to go through and the inner conflict with his hollow

michael889vintor · 2010-06-17, 06:50

It could be heavy because the hollow reatsu became heavier. The concept of the mask was that they overpowered the hollow within. he was in a weaker state than his inner hollow now (because the hollow grew stronger) so its harder to put the mask on.
He would then have to get even stronger to be able to match the hollow's strength.
Its been a power struggle between the two right? we might even see episodes of the hollow withing trying to overpower him again mid fight. hehe

2007-06-04, 05:02	Link #1
ashesatdusk Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: La La Land	[Manga] Speculation on Ichigo's Hollow Powers When we examine the mastery of a Zanpaktou... there seem to be 4 stages We know manga, that Hichigo and Zangetsu are part of each other 1. In order to release a zanpoktou, one has to be able to hear its name. 2. In order to master Shikai, one must trust their Zanpaktou's spirit. 3. In order to hope to achieve bankai one must (through normal methods) achieve materialization. 4. In order to achieve Bankai one must conquer their Zanpaktou, or make thier zanpaktou submit to their will... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Essentially 4 stages.... so we can safely assume that theirs more than one stage to hollow powers. So far Ichigo has forced his hollow to his submission which seems to be opposite order from Zanpaktou. So what are speculation do we have what the rest of his powers may be. So far he hasn't mastered his hollows powers. (The ability to put on the mask for more than 11 seconds). That leaves me with two big quesions? Is the ability to keep the hollow mask on for extended periods of time just an initial state, or can we see it as something like Shikai? Is their something similair to Bankai which would be mastery of powers? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My theory holds an assumption that hollow and shinigami powers are some what analogous to one another. I have a feeling that the Viazard's ability to put on a mask is just an initial state (i.e. like gaining Shinigami powers), and my feeling that their first release state is the ability to control a full hollow form... and their is one more state. Any thoughts or Speculations? __________________ Sig never posted, because the mods would remove it for exceeding the size limit.

2007-06-04, 10:18	Link #2
cheese4u da big boss Join Date: Jul 2006	I once thought about this too, but that was more or less to explain why Ichigo is so weak compared to the other Vaizard. I think there is something that the vaizard know about hollow powers that they're not telling Ichigo. Ichigo has all the proper equipment to be powerful shikai, bankai, and hollow powers but he still seems to be weak. Shinji with just his hollow mask on appears to be stronger than Ichigo with his hollow mask plus bankai. I'd hate to think that all of those people are just naturally stronger than Ichigo, so I'm sure there's more to this that's being let on. __________________ Ya know, when a man works hard his entire life enduring hundreds of ladies, many of whom he does not even remember you'd like to think that at the end of the day he will be given a lot of money, without having had to earn it. -Leon Phelps

2010-01-02, 21:03	Link #8
yaluckyboy NaruHina Maniac Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Konoha Age: 33	I believe that the time he broke out of his mindless "ressurection" form could represent him overpowering his hollow form and gaining access to his power. Just like overpowering hollow ichigo so he can usde the mask, maybe he now has control of the new "ressurection" form but just doesn't realise it yet. I also believe that the fact that his mask feels "heavy" could represent his new power that he doesn't yet understand. Once he used the "ressurection" form once again, he might understand the changes and figure out how to control it's new powers. __________________ --------------------------------------------------------------------- (\_/) Copy this bunny to your sigature (Oo) to help him acheive world domination! ( W) ---------------------------------------------------------------------

2010-01-02, 22:12	Link #9
kamyu Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009	new mask, new 10 second limit? lol __________________

2009-12-22, 18:01	Link #3
Arakial Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Age: 35	With the last few mangas, Kaname was shown to have two new forms--a 'shell'(as opposed to a 'mask') release and a resurreccion. This brought up Ichigo's new form vis a vis Kaname's first form to mind. Save for the hole(which was artificially induced anyways) the two forms are almost identical in style. So does that imply Ichigo will have a separate resurreccion? Tosen's first new form: LINK REMOVED(I think this one's against the rules) Just look at the spoilers for episode 385. Kurosaki's new form: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrUo5fyZdco

2009-12-22, 18:21	Link #4
sayde Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	There's no way of knowing anything at this point IMO. The problem is we have to account for the possibility that things may have changed a bit thanks to Aizen improving the hollowfication process. Tousen's "shell" could be the equivalent to the Vizard's masks and Ichigo's new form could be the equivalent to Tousen's resurrección...or it may not be the case at all. That is to say, it's also definitely possible for Ichigo's new form to be nothing more than the equivalent to Tousen's first form. It's also possible that Ichigo's new form could indeed be a resurrección and he may have yet another resurrección to unlock in the future (because Ulquiorra proves it's possible). KT's going to have to explain this crap sooner or later. So I'll wait for that.

2009-12-25, 16:42	Link #5
Zek Eyebrows... Join Date: May 2004 Age: 37	I think Ichigo's new form is simply his resurreccion. He has a full hollow body, it just so happens that his is humanoid.

2010-01-02, 20:09	Link #7
Ban kai bleach luver Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Soul Society	correct me if im wrong, but ichigo could no longer put on his mask in the later chapters. that has to mean something, and he also mentioned that his mask felt heavier the last time he put it on

2010-01-02, 22:19	Link #10
Wargumm1i Hentai Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Iceland	I believe that the form that Ichigo took on and the power he displayed that easily overpowered Ulquiorra at his very strongest, more like toyed with him, when he was killed for a moment. Was an unstable and incomplete form of his ressurection release and that his hollow power was unstable from the beginning and that his mask evolved into its right form after he lost it while protecting Orihime and now he has too take some training with his inner selves in order too gain his control over his hollow mask or power.

2010-06-17, 06:50	Link #12
michael889vintor Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010	It could be heavy because the hollow reatsu became heavier. The concept of the mask was that they overpowered the hollow within. he was in a weaker state than his inner hollow now (because the hollow grew stronger) so its harder to put the mask on. He would then have to get even stronger to be able to match the hollow's strength. Its been a power struggle between the two right? we might even see episodes of the hollow withing trying to overpower him again mid fight. hehe