Psycho-Pass - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[Awrya]

Originally Posted by Moni-chan

I guess it could be a possibility, i mean she did call him Shugo-kun but she kinda look like a cyborg to me at the end but i might just be imagining

I think it's strongly hinted she's a cyborg, in the last few seconds it looked like she was browsing through files through eye movement.
In fact, I suspect that each of those files represent information of one individual with that mental condition, indicating that their 'perfect' society is far less perfect than we all thought (well, worse than what we already know, it's Urobuchi writing the story).

About them being related due to same hair colour, while Makishima's hair is probably natural, her hair may simply have that colour because of old age.

[mistress_kisara]

Spoiler:

Ok, I didn't realize that Masaoka is Ginoza's dad, but it all makes sense And I'm not liking that old woman at the end was creepy

EDIT: It's nice to hear Toriumi Kousuke. I hope he gets more anime roles since most of his roles are in otome games and Drama CDs

[Chiaki_chan]

Originally Posted by mistress_kisara

Spoiler:

Ok, I didn't realize that Masaoka is Ginoza's dad, but it all makes sense And I'm not liking that old woman at the end was creepy

yes you are right it would be funny if she knew Makishima

[Dark Wing]

After this episode I'm really starting to believe Makishima is indeed some sort of secret experiment gone wrong.

[kitten320]

Father and son? Somehow I did not expect that.

Looks like Akane could easily become second Mikishima if she were to choose bad side.

Well government sure is hiding something...

[Mandarake]

Those who are convinced that the Sybil system is broken should take the following fact into account: in the U.S., it is estimated that the criminal justice system wrongfully convicts between 5000 to 10,000 defendants annually. Since there are less than 3 million criminal prosecutions concluded in the entire country each year, the Sybil error rate of 1 out of every million is an order of magnitude more accurate than the system currently in place in the U.S., and I wager, any other system in the world.

Furthermore, a criminal prosecution presumes a crime. The harm has already been done. The Sybil system is preventative. It identifies the would-be perpetrator before he or she commits any crime.

And if we take the director's statements at face value, then Sybil is in fact doing a heck of a job. The general public willingly surrenders to the system only because of the widespread perception that it actually works. And by all accounts, it does. If it screws up just once out of a million chances, it would not do to have societal consensus shaken by such a relatively infinitesimal error rate.

This is not to say that the Sybil system is perfect. But if Sybil were obviously broken then PsychoPass would fail to raise any kind of moral dillema for the audience to ponder, which would diminish the value of the series as a work of art. On the contrary, I think Urobuchi intends to present us with a closer question so that we may think more deeply about the balance between individual freedoms and choices on one hand and the general good and orderly functioning of society on the other.

[blackwhite67]

True enough, but is it just me or has the quality of psycopaths increased with the decrease in quantity?

[HandofFate]

debatable.
psychopaths that specifically target a victim every year or so or when someone catches their eye.

vs.

randomly shooting up elementary school kids

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Mandarake

Those who are convinced that the Sybil system is broken should take the following fact into account: in the U.S., it is estimated that the criminal justice system wrongfully convicts between 5000 to 10,000 defendants annually. Since there are less than 3 million criminal prosecutions concluded in the entire country each year, the Sybil error rate of 1 out of every million is an order of magnitude more accurate than the system currently in place in the U.S., and I wager, any other system in the world.

Furthermore, a criminal prosecution presumes a crime. The harm has already been done. The Sybil system is preventative. It identifies the would-be perpetrator before he or she commits any crime.

And if we take the director's statements at face value, then Sybil is in fact doing a heck of a job. The general public willingly surrenders to the system only because of the widespread perception that it actually works. And by all accounts, it does. If it screws up just once out of a million chances, it would not do to have societal consensus shaken by such a relatively infinitesimal error rate.

This is not to say that the Sybil system is perfect. But if Sybil were obviously broken then PsychoPass would fail to raise any kind of moral dillema for the audience to ponder, which would diminish the value of the series as a work of art. On the contrary, I think Urobuchi intends to present us with a closer question so that we may think more deeply about the balance between individual freedoms and choices on one hand and the general good and orderly functioning of society on the other.

The problem is it isn't just screwing up one in a million times. I think that society is only starting to see the problems inherent in that system. The mental stress constantly being monitored puts on people is itself creating crime. Is it any better to exchange people who snap under that pressure for those who committed crimes for other reasons? Hardly a preventative system that pushes people into committing crimes.

In the end what is really being gained here? I suppose this proves that every system has its pros and cons and that's something to consider. But really not much to praise here either. Like in the factory scenario loopholes are always going to be found and while it looks like society is working well under this system the fractures are already popping up.

[Jimmy C]

One thing that disappoints me is that neither the Dominator nor Sybil seemed to have retained a record of Akane scanning Makishima. If that record had existed, they wouldn't have needed to probe Akane's memory.

[prototype_sky]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

One thing that disappoints me is that neither the Dominator nor Sybil seemed to have retained a record of Akane scanning Makishima. If that record had existed, they wouldn't have needed to probe Akane's memory.

So true this is a huge plot hole because it was able to determine robots as a threat in episode 3 so brain wave scans can't be the only thing it records
Also I am beginning to wonder if the sylib is framing people who begin to doubt the current system.

[dakubi]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

One thing that disappoints me is that neither the Dominator nor Sybil seemed to have retained a record of Akane scanning Makishima. If that record had existed, they wouldn't have needed to probe Akane's memory.

But they have to get Mikishima's photo right?
Dominator only has the record of scanning.

[Jimmy C]

Since Lethal Eliminator turns the target into bloody gibblets, I think it's only fair that the Dominator retained a visual record of the target before he was gibbed for identification purposes.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Bern-san

His conversation with the superior was definitely interesting, it isn't strange that the government was aware of people like Shogo. Now I wonder, what will they do those type of people? Why didn't she tell Gino? Something's fishy...

She seemed to be hinting that the government was *disposing* of cases like Shogo...OTOH, what she was hinting might not necessarily be the truth. Though at any rate, the official line does raise some vulnerabilites and weaknesses in the Sybill system, but doesn't make it look like the completley helpless setup to a weird case like Shogo as we might have been presuming. This isn't an ENTIRELY unprecedented problem. The Sybil system seems to use humans, just so that there can be recognition over stuff like that...though it doesn't feel entirely honest, since not even inspectors have the autonomy to use stun at their own discretion.


Ginzo and old man badass are father and son. Honestly, to me this was seeming VERY likely after the minor beatdown papa gave to his misbehaving boy, but this pretty much just confirms it. Ginzo must be feeling rather awkward right about now. He's been lecturing Akane so much about the dangers of rising Crime coefficient...yet this is really more about his own insecurities about his mental health.


I'll be perfectly honest. Akane is rather coming off as the most Menschy character in this show, despite what happened with her in episode 11. And that's even accounting for the possibility that she's a criminally asymptomatic person like Shogo. Even if you throw out the possibly not accurate psycho pass reading, it's pretty damn obvious that while Akane is clearly a very empathetic individual, she has some pretty goddamned tough mental and emotional resilience. I'm wondering if Shogo is going to change his appraisal of Akane once he realizes how quickly she recovered from the BSOD he sent her into. Shogo had Kougami's friend killed, and he reacted to it by going quite significantly unhinged. I'm not sure Shogo can fairly say Akane isn't unique in that regard.

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Since Lethal Eliminator turns the target into bloody gibblets, I think it's only fair that the Dominator retained a visual record of the target before he was gibbed for identification purposes.

Perhaps it works like a World War 2 gun cam? Where the thing only activates once the operator actually fires it...in this case, since Akane's dominators didn't discharge, it didn't consider it needed to record anything?


Rather a design flaw though...

[Mandarake]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

The problem is it isn't just screwing up one in a million times. I think that society is only starting to see the problems inherent in that system. The mental stress constantly being monitored puts on people is itself creating crime. Is it any better to exchange people who snap under that pressure for those who committed crimes for other reasons? Hardly a preventative system that pushes people into committing crimes.

In the end what is really being gained here? I suppose this proves that every system has its pros and cons and that's something to consider. But really not much to praise here either. Like in the factory scenario loopholes are always going to be found and while it looks like society is working well under this system the fractures are already popping up.

I don't see any evidence that the monitoring causes people to commit crime. I may change my mind if you point to a specific incident where the monitoring, in and of itself, pushed an otherwise law abiding individual into criminality. From what I've seen thus far, there was always something else besides Sybil that was putting people on edge. The only stress Sybil may add is the threat of exposing the criminal mental state that the individual wants to conceal.

In the first place, the monitoring is never random. That is what I gathered from the director's "human-in-the-loop" explanation. Dominators are not attached to drones to constantly screen the populace. You will know well ahead of time whenever you will have an encounter with Sybil, and can prepare yourself for it. You can even plan your life to minimize or avoid contact with Sybil. That is, unless an enforcer suddenly points a dominator at you, and even then you were probably already up to no good.

[Vicious108]

So in the future GIFs will be used in funerals, huh? Well, they could've at least gone with a looped one then.

Anyway, I had a feeling that old lady was going to become an important figure back when she first appeared in episode 6 and I'm glad it happened because the show could certainly use at least one Sybil higher-up with an actual presence in the story. And she did a good job of making them seem even shadier than before in that they're well aware of the flaws in the system and simply cover them up as they come through likely questionable methods. I suspect more unwanted truths about the society they've created will be revealed in the future as we get closer to the beginning of its almost inevitable entropy.

Also, it seems that the key to have an "uncloudable" Hue like Makishima and Akane is something along the lines of acting on your own will and sticking to your beliefs without being alienated by society but rather accepting that it is what it is. Masaoka couldn't manage to do that and denied the system, so he became a latent criminal, while Akane - despite the incident with the Dominator not allowing her to shoot Makishima, which someone else might easily interpret as a betrayal by the system and be angry about - accepts the system's mistakes and merely seeks to make up for them through her own ideas, whose fundamentally good nature she continues to believe in, just as Makishima said was the case for him in episode 11. Which makes me we wonder if he will eventually develop an interest in her as well in spite of her disappointing first performance.

Still, that was only the first in what will likely be a series of potentially scarring incidents for Akane, so it's probably still a little too soon to claim that she's got the world all figured out to the point of being wholly unbreakable and incorruptible. Besides, now that the countdown is on 'till Ginoza descends into the realm of Enforcer-dom, she will soon be left as the only Inspector in the team, which in turn will make her unstoppable once Urobuchi finally dishes out that true despair and breaks her into becoming a full-fledged psychopath.

[Entravity]

Damn, episode is tense. So many people called Masaoka's relationship with Ginoza. Ending part is intense. I wonder if they're related. I kind of doubt it though.

[andyjay729]

Originally Posted by Mandarake

Those who are convinced that the Sybil system is broken should take the following fact into account: in the U.S., it is estimated that the criminal justice system wrongfully convicts between 5000 to 10,000 defendants annually. Since there are less than 3 million criminal prosecutions concluded in the entire country each year, the Sybil error rate of 1 out of every million is an order of magnitude more accurate than the system currently in place in the U.S., and I wager, any other system in the world.

Butcher was probably trying to make a statement with this show about "law and order" types who think the very possibility of wrongful convictions (and executions) is worth "cleaning up the streets" at any cost. Maybe those "mistakes" happen oh so rarely (but with Butcher at the helm, we have reason to believe they don't) but, well, do you think it's worth it to randomly turn three or so people a year into chili when they MIGHT actually be innocent?

In the comments of stories about the 787 airliners being grounded, some people have said they can't trust an airplane that relies more on computers and electronics than on mechanics and human judgement. YMMV with planes of course, but I certainly think it applies to society and law enforcement. Would you install a computer in place of a police chief, let alone in place of your president/prime minister? I think enough of us have seen "2001" to know the answer to that question.

[andyjay729]

Originally Posted by Vicious108

Also, it seems that the key to have an "uncloudable" Hue like Makishima and Akane is something along the lines of acting on your own will and sticking to your beliefs without being alienated by society but rather accepting that it is what it is. Masaoka couldn't manage to do that and denied the system, so he became a latent criminal, while Akane - despite the incident with the Dominator not allowing her to shoot Makishima, which someone else might easily interpret as a betrayal by the system and be angry about - accepts the system's mistakes and merely seeks to make up for them through her own ideas, whose fundamentally good nature she continues to believe in, just as Makishima said was the case for him in episode 11. Which makes me we wonder if he will eventually develop an interest in her as well in spite of her disappointing first performance.

I think Akane might turn out like Madoka...she'll come to think the world as it is is deeply troubled and in need of some sort of reform, but she'll never give up on her belief in humanity's better nature and overall worth.

[jeroz]

Don't forget another topic that was discussed in this episode.

The machine is not perfect, which is why you have the enforcers and the inspectors to guide them. You can place a lot of trust into this 99.9999% accurate system, but you can still use your own judgement when the extreme outliers happened. As much as it can also be used as an assurance for the public, the system does work like that.