(L+CR) Goblin Slayer

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by XFire

..........please tell me he didn't actually say that

I'd believe it, coming from that guy.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by XFire

..........please tell me he didn't actually say that

I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

[Twi]

Goddamn it Digi, you make it hard for me to defend you at times. Why do all of my favorite anitubers get caught up on this of all things. It was one episode. It's not like it came out of nowhere mid-season like Valvrave.

[Skaddix]

Digibro is screwed...I feel bad for the guy but come on youtube videos are edited no excuse for leaving that in.

[Twi]

He's talking about a fictional scene in a fantasy setting, not an actual human-on-human scene that could possibly related to the real world as some anime are wont to do. I guarantee he doesn't care what anyone says about it.

The sad thing is that I saw this coming a mile away the moment I read the manga.

[Skaddix]

Its an example of think it don't say it...I get what he means it wasn't especially graphic but wording matters.

[The Green One]

You're all still beating this horse to death I see.

[Marcus H.]

Let's be fair, putting rape on an anime series to make it dark is as much beating the dead horse as the ensuing "discussion" about it.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by germanturkey

there is already one character that has a traumatic past because of the actions of goblins. a second one wouldn't add too much to the story. for better or worse, the threat to the female members of the party adds more tension to the story than having it happen again to a survivor, which would leave an even worse taste in people's mouths.

On the contrary, I think that addition can enrich the character-dynamic and themes and has real potential to work well as long as the writing is great. Like I said, you need an exceptional writer to pull it off because lesser writers tend to just throw the rape victim away from the main narrative in this kind of setting coz they don't know what to do with her if they put her in the protag-group.

Originally Posted by Wheeljack83

From Digibro's own mouth:

"The rape wasn't even that good."

I'm curious, what kind of rape that he consider "good"?

[orion]

Originally Posted by The Green One

You're all still beating this horse to death I see.

Certain content (female degradation) will get this type of discussion now. It's not the only title to have a rape in it. We had Angolmois from last season that threw one in near the last episode. This title just has it more in your face/detailed which leads to more discussion.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Haak

1. You asked for my opinion. I'm not preaching anything.

I'm not accusing you of being preachy. I'm saying I don't go looking for sermons in manga, and that my eyes glaze over when words like "thematic" start getting bandied about.

I just don't think the author is trying to say anything about how the neglect of the ruling class is causing the suffering of the proletariat or any other high minded ideal.

Originally Posted by Haak

If you're entire argument boils down to "Rape is there to make Goblins particularly more than evil than they're usually portrayed" then you're only proving my point. Just creating characters to get raped only to toss them aside when the point is made is never going to come across as convincing. It's just going to come across as contrived. And what could be more effective at showing how evil they are than showing just how much damage rape actually does to the people involved?

I think showing the Fighter bouncing back and going right back to adventuring would go counter to that. Some people already had problems with Priestess doing that. Or do you want segments showing the Female Fighter in a temple having nightmares and whatever other PTSD symptoms she may develop?

[The Green One]

I think the fact she was already shown shattered from the trauma is enough without having to grind the audience's nose in it. We already have Priestess who pulled herself together and is able to keep going in her profession even after the nightmarishly close call she had and being saved pretty much at the last second. This is just the first episode, I'm sure there's more to it than she just simply dusted herself off and is going on like nothing happened. The event no doubt left it's scars on Priestess. Still got to give her props for her mental fortitude. She's a mentally tough girl to be able to keep at this after what she almost got put through, especially since the dude she's hanging around with is going to be going after Goblins a lot more after this.

The Goblins in this show are being rather clearly portrayed as a deeply evil parasitic race. They are quite clearly being shown as the antagonists with their obvious display of cruelty with their prey.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I think showing the Fighter bouncing back and going right back to adventuring would go counter to that. Some people already had problems with Priestess doing that. Or do you want segments showing the Female Fighter in a temple having nightmares and whatever other PTSD symptoms she may develop?

I'd say people are varied. Like IRL, not every rape victim in anime need to be portrayed as "too traumatized to do anything" after the horrible deed. Some of them can rise up and regain their life and be a decent & productive person, among other things. A certain female character from Gundam Unicorn is a good example of it. Writers can be creative about it without downplaying the effects of rape itself. Sky's the limit.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

On the contrary, I think that addition can enrich the character-dynamic and themes and has real potential to work well as long as the writing is great. Like I said, you need an exceptional writer to pull it off because lesser writers tend to just throw the rape victim away from the main narrative in this kind of setting coz they don't know what to do with her if they put her in the protag-group.

An exceptional writer?

Having a female character being raped and included in the "main narrative" doesn't require an "exceptional writer". It's a very cheap way to "depth" to a female character and an excuse for them to be weak or mentally messed up. There is nothing particularly clever at doing that.


--

The point of her getting raped that is you see it happen to a real character, not some faceless mob. It gives weight to the setting of goblins attacking and raping people.

And there were a couple of reasons why she didn't recover and instead was taken to a temple

The first was to show how traumatic an experience it could be. Even though she was a strong and confident adventure, she never left never recovered and probably never took a step outside the temple afterward. This has a lot bigger impression then if it was just some of the faceless villagers that got kidnapped.

The second was to support the Priestess's ending narration. And to have her being driven to the temple in the cart, passing some new fresh-faced adventures.

--

That is far better than some trite subplot of her struggling against her trauma of being raped by killing goblins.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by moridin84

The point of her getting raped that is you see it happen to a real character, not some faceless mob. It gives weight to the setting of goblins attacking and raping people.

I don't see that. With her completely out of the picture now, she pretty much mounted to no more than a mob character.

=======

OOT, but one recent example of using rape as a plot device in anime that I like is in Persona 5 with Shiho. Subtle, but powerful.

[Keila]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

I don't see that. With her completely out of the picture now, she pretty much mounted to no more than a mob character.

That's not really fair (re: being a mob character). Biscuit (IBO) more or less meets a similar fate (granted it was more than a single episode). Screentime (no matter how brief) or influence (no matter how seemingly trivial) prevents them from being just a 'mob' character. At the very least without her, priestess wouldn't be priestess.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Keila

That's not really fair (re: being a mob character). Biscuit (IBO) more or less meets a similar fate (granted it was more than a single episode). Screentime (no matter how brief) or influence (no matter how seemingly trivial) prevents them from being just a 'mob' character. At the very least without her, priestess wouldn't be priestess.

What criterion are you using to suggest Biscuit was a mob character?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by moridin84

An exceptional writer?

Having a female character being raped and included in the "main narrative" doesn't require an "exceptional writer". It's a very cheap way to "depth" to a female character and an excuse for them to be weak or mentally messed up. There is nothing particularly clever at doing that.

Yes, an exceptional writer is needed to execute it well precisely because lesser writers will just make the whole thing as bad as you said. Making a good protag out of a rape victim is difficult. It's not easy or cheap, otherwise, many stories would already use it.

Also, the idea is to portray the strength and determination of some of the rape-victims to continue on living and trying their hardest to reach their life's goals & dreams by overcoming the horrible experience no matter how hard it is. It's the exact opposite of what you claimed it to be (aka. making them weak). That could've been a good additional theme for the story.

Originally Posted by moridin84

That is far better than some trite subplot of her struggling against her trauma of being raped by killing goblins.

You seem to already make up your mind that the very idea of a rape-survivor became one of the protag group is bad even though there already great examples out there (the great Gundam Unicorn being one of them). So might as well agree to disagree.

[KikeLyne]

Seems like GS got a collab... with valkyrie profile mobile.

http://www.siliconera.com/2018/10/12...-slayer-anime/

[Keila]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

What criterion are you using to suggest Biscuit was a mob character?

The ones I listed (assuming someone wants to equate Fighter Girl as a mob).


Primarily whether something is a 'mob' character (or not) should be determined by their influence on the story and the characters within said story.

In Overlord (as an example), 70k people (military) get wiped out without any value or influence (to the extent that you could have just killed any 70k people and it would have the same result).


Biscuits influence in IBO (and impact on the other characters) lasts well after his physical presence leaves the story and to a certain extent, serves as a foundational beacon/reference for the others going forward.


Fighter girl (despite her introduction and demise within episode 1) seems like it has/will influence Priestess going forward and into the future. Maybe it didn't necessarily need to be the Fighter girl, but

+ Person would have needed to be a party member
+ Person would have needed to be female (see following)
+ Goblins would have needed some sort of reason to violate the party member in a specific way


A mob character like the female villagers they plan on saving (hence the expedition to slay goblins in the first place) wouldn't have the same impact/influence. Maybe Priestess (in the future episodes) will re-call this first adventure (or maybe not). At the very least her party members (and what happened to them) should have a far greater impact on shaping her outlook on life and understanding of the world than the random village females they attempted to save going in.