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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 06 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 96 | 56.47% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 58 | 34.12% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 10 | 5.88% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 6 | 3.53% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-02-10, 18:04 | Link #81 | |||
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Which means... you're on the side of the witches, eh? You want to seem them continue to kill humans? So yeah, to us, Kyube is a savior. To the witches, he's Osama Bin Laden. |
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2011-02-10, 18:04 | Link #82 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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This is what we KNOW. If someone would do a tenth of that in real life for me, I'd kick his ass all over the place away from me, because as a grown-up with a bit of life experience I'd come to the conclusion "entirely untrustworthy, very fishy, dangerous". Would you buy an insurance from someone who does what he does, the way he does it? |
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2011-02-10, 18:08 | Link #83 |
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So he's done some extremely questionable things, he's manipulative and deceitful and he's not trustworthy. He's also dangerous. That's fine. We agree there.
I still want to know his motivations before calling him evil. I guess it's a matter of the definition of the word "evil".
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2011-02-10, 18:11 | Link #84 |
Blooming on the mountain
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light....
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Admittedly to me at the moment it seems to me that QB's actions spring from amorality ... but no doubt things will become much clearer by the end of the season.
Thus far there have quite a few unexpected surprises, so I would not put it past the animators to totally turn our current impressions and assessments on our heads when all is said and done.
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2011-02-10, 18:18 | Link #86 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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For example, say that what Kyube is doing is to trick and enslave a few number of girls for the sake of safety of humankind, and this for some reason turns out to be the most efficient way of eliminating witches and protect human; is Kyube evil, then? But he indeed is at best amoral. and I want to BARBUQUE him oh you son of a xxxxx!!!!!これは魔法少女ですか?はい、ゾンビです!!!! |
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2011-02-10, 18:18 | Link #87 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Those of you arguing that QB is "amoral" are actually arguing that his motivation of doing what he needs to do to survive is cannot be be labeled good nor evil, which is correct since all animals kill or steal to survive. From the perspective of the human audience, his methods, especially his dishonesty in not telling the whole story at the start and his manipulation and involvement of innocent little girls, make him "evil." The entire argument seems to based on confusion surrounding QB's motivations and his methods, both of which can be judged separately. Until we understand the choices that he faced before doing what he did in the story, the good-evil scale cannot be applied from a non-human perspective.
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2011-02-10, 18:28 | Link #88 | |
Blooming on the mountain
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light....
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What you say is true in my case of using the word amoral ... to me it does indeed seem atm that he is acting from motivations of survival, like an animal (albeit it seems a very cunning and dangerous animal). However a lot still feels unclear in the sense of having "too little information", and this anime series thus far seems to be doing a very effective job of misdirection by leaking out teensy hints bit by bit in a way that could easily be interpreted in "strong ways". I can easily see how people would already be regarding him as outrightly evil! But again, things will undoubtedly be clearer by the end of the season.
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2011-02-10, 18:46 | Link #89 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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It's terrible. Even when you have someone on your Ignore list (like I have Kaijo) - as much as it helps - you're not safe from his nonsense when someone else quotes him. It's really regrettable that the boards don't have the functionality to filter quotes aswell.
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The point which I've consistently been making is this: It's QB's actions which are evil. Directly. You cannot deceive and lure naive kids into a contract like this WITHOUT being evil, if you take the position which you're supposed to take: Sympathetic to Madoka and the other human girls. Just like you are evil (at least in my eyes) when you beat your mother, rape your sister or set your neighbor's house on fire. It's the ACTION which defines it. You don't need to sit back and cackle evilly and do the "ohboy, I'm bad" dance. QB doesn't flinch, and it's quite possible - even likely - that he doesn't even realize that he's doing anything wrong (which would constitute "amoral"). But it IS wrong. The way I see it, his deeds lead to death and suffering, for his own private gain. Which is evil. Usually, when you're amoral, your deeds are evil. I'd kindly ask any participant of his board not to quote Kaijo anymore where he makes any references to me (or to just delete them pre-quote). Then he can spread whatever he wants without requiring me to acknowledge it. Thank you! |
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2011-02-10, 18:52 | Link #91 | |
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2011-02-10, 19:09 | Link #92 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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What we have here is that his activities are casting young girls into misery and death (ask Mami or Homura, or look what the happy-positive Sayaka is gradually turning into in ep6). And what is it that QB is devouring delightfully? Extra-black Grief Seeds - he's feasting on misery, and his MG slaves are technically _forced_ by the system to provide that to him. Together with the clear Faust reference, it would indicate to me that QB is a devil/demon, and that sounds like a delicious dish for them. Well, I'm not demanding that everyone needs to share this conclusion yet (hence "the way I see it"). But it never ceases to amaze me how many clues people shrug off. We'll certainly get even more in the next eps, since Urobuchi Gen said that after this ep, the stops are being pulled. |
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2011-02-10, 19:16 | Link #93 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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I just finished watching the raw and had a couple questions, my japanese is not the best. Did Sayaka lose her memory at the end? Also, is it confirmed that Homerun-chan is from the future? Could someone explain to me what Kyubey said in his long dialogue at the end? I am sorry if this has already been touched upon.
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2011-02-10, 19:22 | Link #94 | |||||||||
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That's in direct contrast to those who have knee-jerked to a judgment before they had all the facts. Quote:
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Kyube makes magical girls to fight witches, which are preying upon humans. At worst, he withholds some information, but it isn't anything which would affect the outcome. As as many of us have done here (not telling someone something because it will just upset them), this is not an inherently bad thing to do. A lot of people can't handle the truth. If you think this is bad, then you need to present another way. Because so far, you have nothing. His actions are to grant wishes and make magical girls. How you get evil out of that, is beyond me and quite a few others here. Quote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you are welcome to believe he's evil and a douchebag if you like. Just acknowledge that there is no evidence yet. If there comes such a time as to have evidence that there is, I'll gladly join the "he's evil" side. But he hasn't raped anyone. He hasn't killed anyone (although dependent upon point of view; if you're technically dead, but you can do anything you could normally do while you were alive, are you really dead? What does the difference matter?). You keep trying to associate him with killers, rapists, and terrorists, which is simply bad hyperbole. Someone needs to deal with these witches. Maybe what Kyube is doing isn't exactly clean or above board, but he gives a choice, and currently, his method is the only one that works. War is a very dirty business, but sometimes you have to do some things to protect your friends, family, countrymen and fellow humans. At least Kyube is giving us an option. And again, if it's revealed that he is deliberately doing this to feed on despair or something, then I'll change my mind. But so far, he has simply reacted to what other people did. He hasn't instigated anything. |
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2011-02-10, 19:23 | Link #95 | |
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2011-02-10, 19:34 | Link #96 |
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Well, this episode makes some pretty important revelations, from what I could gather from the raw, and from what I've gathered from this thread so far.
Now, I'm going to want to watch the sub before I make a more detailed take on this episode, and on the issues and fan discussions that it touches on, but I will say now that, in fairness to the "Kyubey is evil" side, this episode basically confirms that he is engaged in serious unethical behavior. Which is to say that... Spoiler for Madoka Episode 6 spoiler:
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2011-02-10, 19:45 | Link #97 | |
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2011-02-10, 19:47 | Link #98 | |
Banned
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Edit: and to be clear, we (and the girls) knew that becoming a magical girl meant you'd fight witches as long as you lived. It didn't seem to be something you could get out of (although we often raised the point about what would happen if a girl simply decided to stop fighting; what forces her?). In return, you get a wish granted and magical powers. Some might not make that bargain, but some would. To me, it comes down to personal choice. |
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2011-02-10, 19:54 | Link #99 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Thanks for sending me to sleep feeling quite a bit less weird, Triple R. I've got to admit that having to struggle hard to defend a position which my core feels like it should be the DEFAULT rather than the exception gets strangely unsettling after a while ^_^;
One side revelation I had on the third rewatch... it's obvious that Kyoko - who is supposed to be quite senior - didn't know anything about the Soul Gem proximity issue. Homura on the other hand clearly knew, and acted instantly. So it's safe to assume that Homura is very well-versed in the technicalities of the MG contract. WHY DIDN'T SHE USE HER KNOWLEDGE TO DISSUADE MADOKA AND SAYAKA? Does she have the Senjogahara disease? (Very smart and capable, but tremendous deficits on the social dealings side) Or is there something preventing her? Any plausible explanations welcome, I couldn't come up with any so far... |
2011-02-10, 19:57 | Link #100 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
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While Mentar's speculation that QB is an evil to the core puppetmaster manipulating everything solely for his own gain and nothing else is probably the most likely scenario, I have to say that would actually be rather unsatisfying. I would much prefer a scenario where QB is admittedly selfish and evil, but an imperfect solution against an even greater evil, and that the only logical choice is to deal with QB and try to live, or face outright destruction without a chance.
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Tags |
madness, madoka magica |
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