2010-01-21, 01:29 | Link #1043 | |
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Well, some person (Who I believe to be Shannon) at some point before the events in 1986 created an existence designed specifically to embody her love for Battler, and named it 'Beatrice'. Something like that. ...Why couldn't the breaking of the mirror and the unsealing of the Witch also have been the moment of the above existence's birth? |
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2010-01-21, 01:42 | Link #1044 | |
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Also, you've got to remember Beatrice was born 6 years ago (as 6 years = 1000 years in the Meta), and the Shannon broke that mirror 1-2 years ago. That, and chances are quite likely the human Beatrice is 19 years old by 1986, whilst Shannon is 16. I'll admit, though, the possibility of Shannon being older has been hinted, when Jessica and George said 6 years ago she had an older-sister type of behaviour, but that's all there is to it.
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2010-01-21, 02:01 | Link #1045 | ||
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In any case, there's no one on the island that's -officially- 19 or close to 19 aside from Jessica, and Beatrice certainly isn't Jessica. The only other girl who's close in age is Shannon. Just wondering, who do you think it is? |
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2010-01-21, 02:24 | Link #1046 | |
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Honestly, I've got no idea. (Sure "Used Can, you fag, you don't even have a theory, yet you come here and tell us our theories are wrong." I'm sorry. ) All I know is, given the amount of info we've got, we cannot conclude Beatrice is Shannon or Jessica, but au contraire, we've got information that simply conflicts with those possibilities. Jessica was basically flat out denied in EP6, and Shannon is basically chosen by process of elimination, yet the info we get about her simply doesn't match what we've got about Beatrice. Mind you, I'm not saying Beatrice being Shannon is impossible, for all we know, R07 may give us some piece of info in the remaining episodes that will make us see some past scenes on a completely different light and realise that Shannon was actually miserable, but as of now, I don't think we can do that (well, or maybe just me, and there's some other people who can, but I'm yet to meet anyone who can), and Umineko is supposedly solvable by EP4.
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2010-01-21, 02:27 | Link #1047 | |
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Even after what I've heard of Ep6 spoilers, Shkanon still looks totally silly and anticlimatic, partly for the reasons Renall has pointed out, but mostly because after the huge build-up that the question arks were, I'd expect something more ingenious from R07 as the reveal. We are still hoping for a mystery masterpiece here, for chrissakes, and Shkanon just doesn't cut it as masterpiece material. To provide an example of what I'd consider (if only barely) tolerable, I guess I could live with Kasumi=Kyrie (I still think there's gotta be a reason for too much Kasumi in ep4, could well be a foreshadowing) or with Shkanontrice as Battler's love interest (but NOT, at the same time, the mastermind), although in the latter case Shkanon would still be unnecessary as Renall already said.
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2010-01-21, 02:30 | Link #1048 | |||
Homo Ludens
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We do know that the third-person narration is in the habit of lying to us... Quote:
Umineko has been declining in quality the more complicated and silly the story (especially the meta-story... A Witches' Senate that employs Witch Hunters? The entire story is being written by a heretofore unknown character who looks too much like Hanyuu? Mass marriages? Really?) gets. I long for the days of Ep1-3 when the gameboard had more focus and it actually felt like a mystery at times rather than just a deconstruction of one... |
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2010-01-21, 02:40 | Link #1049 |
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Yah this is going no where mates. All of these pieces fail to connect, the only person i really see making Shannon miserable is Eva taking out her frustrations on the Maid for the lulz. Natsuhi may take afew jabs at Shannon but not to the extent that Shannon starts brewing inner hatred for the family. Natsuhi's not that tatty.
And before you guys start hollering the Shannon = Beato Bandwagon, They have shown clear cut evidence that Beato was once a human, meaning Piece!Shannon and Piece!Beato practically existed side by side when Beato attained Beatrice.
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2010-01-21, 02:50 | Link #1050 | ||
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Once again, I don't think any of these things show her being miserable. Honestly, if you can be miserable that way, then I'm miserable too, because my boss is a dick. Quote:
Also, as for contradictory facts. First, Shannon loves George. R07 confirmed that much. Now, this doesn't cancel the possibility she also loves Battler. However, this game itself shows different. Whoever laid out this game doesn't seem to care much about George, as the only time he's "survived" is EP1, whereas Battler has always survived, except in EP3 where Eva killed him. We know this whole thing has been planned beforehand, because of the bottle letters, and the letters with keys for the bank accounts. Not only that, the main purpose of this game is to have Battler realise something. Why would that be a big deal if she's in love with George now? George has been basically been a pawn in this game, so that Battler remembers something. Sure, there's the possibility of DID, but there's also many contradictions with that, which we've already discussed a lot.
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2010-01-21, 02:57 | Link #1051 | ||
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That has been my attitude to anything in life since I was, what, 3 years old? And of course I ‘m ready to be betrayed (“without love…”, but you know the drill). Quote:
On the contrary, that deconstruction part is what, to me, makes R07’s works unique and it seems he’s getting better at it as he goes (but let’s wait until Ep8 comes out). Spoiler for Off-topic:
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2010-01-21, 03:03 | Link #1052 |
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That said, I do wish we'd at least get another finished game for once. I know he says if we know the answer we can already figure out what happens, but I'd still like to see it play all the way out to the end again at least once! Or at least get past the first and secondish twilights...
And no, I'm not expecting a masterpiece. But I'm hoping this doesn't turn up lame on the home stretch. I'd feel particularly betrayed if all the "answers" are silly mental disorders and gross overreactions and poorly-motivated killings of people because they were there. As long as I can kinda accept the mastermind/primary culprit, I'll be cool with the mystery side of the board. I just take all the meta-stuff to be humorous, more or less, so I'm not seriously thinking about some kind of witch senate or anything as any more than a joke. |
2010-01-21, 03:05 | Link #1053 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Sigh ...I realize that the pieces don't really fit, but... there's seriously no one else on the island Beatrice can be other than Shannon, unless Beatrice is a person we haven't even met... which both means that she isn't on the island during the game and that this mystery sucks.
...The big problem with Umineko is that motive is unsolvable. No, I don't care what Knox 8 and Ryukishi and Ep5 say, motive in Umineko is unsolvable. We're simply not given enough information to come to a reasonable theory as to WHY the murders are occurring to begin with. We'd have to be psychics to figure it out. This is why I believe that Shannon is Beatrice... because it's the only answer that makes any sense given (semi-)objective fact, that is, the process of elimination. Quote:
And Poirot is way better written than this. Not that I don't enjoy Umineko, mind, it's just that with the advent of the core (which is Pretentious for "answer") arcs especially are beginning to ruin it for me the more stupidly complicated things become. Last edited by Tyabann; 2010-01-21 at 03:16. |
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2010-01-21, 03:13 | Link #1054 | |
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2010-01-21, 03:16 | Link #1055 | |
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2010-01-21, 03:17 | Link #1056 | |
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I'm not expecting a masterpiece either. Hell, this is not aimed at geniuses of the mystery genre (not that I'm even remotely close to being one of them), but to anime/manga fans. I just want an ending that is not that bad. I want a good culprit. I don't care if it's an obvious person, as long as it fits the image of a good culprit.
As for the Meta-World, I take it at face value, as it has no relevance whatsoever with the mystery. So, I can just have fun while reading what happens there. In fact, the Meta-World and Fantasy characters are what I've liked the most. But we are! We can read their thoughts. Quote:
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2010-01-21, 03:18 | Link #1057 | ||
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If Umineko's reveal is anything like that, it will all have been worth it. That's what I'm saying. Unsolvable. |
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2010-01-21, 03:22 | Link #1058 |
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I just wish I knew if he was actually expecting people to be able to solve it, or if it has been solved and it was just such an "easy" answer we all ignored it because there was nothing more to say on it. But as I said before ep5 came out, I don't really buy that it's that solvable right now. He might think it is, but I've really got my doubts right now.
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2010-01-21, 03:26 | Link #1059 | ||||
Homo Ludens
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Also, that's a different Piece-Beatrice than the one who is 19 years old in 1986 to begin with. Quote:
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I do think that you can solve the game without relying on motive, though. It just won't be the elegant solution Umineko is supposed to have, apparently. |
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2010-01-21, 03:26 | Link #1060 | |
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