(CR) White Album (All Episodes, 1-26)

[Traece]

Originally Posted by faust123

Murphy's Law in full effect my friend.

I liked this episode a lot. There was a subtle tension throughout, and as the end neared I just kept thinking, "wow this is going to be over soon and I am going to be pissed." I really enjoy the slow build up, and I feel like yayoi's actions in episode 5 show that this series is slightly more unpredictable than we first thought.

Not much else to say that hasn't been said - biggest cliff hanger for me is what rina wants :b

White Album is extremely unpredictable and it's quite refreshing. I'm enjoying this anime a great deal if not just for the fact that it's wildly unpredictable. I never know what's going to happen. If you read a few posts back, I mentioned that I thought for days about that hallway before they revealed the secret door.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

lol, she fell asleep while he was showering. You would think the anxiety would keep her awake.

She did run around all day plus her work is very tiring. And if I were him I would have just slept right next to her.. why stay up and fret all night.

Originally Posted by germanturkey

...didn't they have caller id in the 80s...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID - since it was under development in the late 70's and early 80's it wasn't used widespread. Plus I'm sure it was an extra charge for many years. But this my guesstimates with regards to Japan, so yeah.

[HayashiTakara]

I somehow think that she had coldfeet and pretended to be asleep.

[Mentar]

Some quick thoughts to ep5:

Closet mystery solved. So obviously it leads to some place where Eiji is working (probably composing), and Rina knows about it, since she flushed him out. Gives me a good feeling that the show is obviously willing to tie up former loose threads.

Contentwise, I find it both hilarious and sad at the same way how circumstances are conspiring against our lead pair. If anyone can come up with another non-comedy anime where the lead girl wants to spend the night with the male lead unsuccessfully like this, I'd like a reference.

Hung jury about Touya. On one hand, I do respect that he let Yuki sleep when he returned, even though he was clearly disappointed about this turn of events. He also eventually rejected Yayoi's bribery attempts with cash and sex, but he WAS fantasizing about her lips throughout the episode, along with memories of Rina too. So, he _is_ susceptible to outside temptation, but so far, he's been shying away briefly before giving in. Yet. He DID manage to thank Haruka for her efforts to help him (plus!), but not without thoughtlessly hurting her in the process (his bragging at the end of their notebook convo). And I also appreciate his willingness to help Misaki, but not without being too late AGAIN, and inadvertently cutting off Yuki once more.

About Misaki: I somehow doubt that the problem is that she rejected the prime meanie or so, but she clearly humiliated him in some way. Maybe she replaced him as scriptwriter or so, something related to their club activities. Well, there's the next obstacle for the "I won't sleep tonight" project... and I'm sure Touya will respond to the call for help.

Akira: Wuss. Seriously. Stop pouting and DO something.

Haruka: Sorry, girl. Really sorry, the story is cruel to you. She will continue to help Touya more than he ever realizes (it was _her_ who figured out Yuki's note, Touya was clueless), but it's a very very thankless job. You really need to make some more and new friends and drop your romantic hopes. The note conversation indicated that she still harbors some.

Yayoi - very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if she were a former (failed) model. She's gorgeous and has a strong presence, so I would consider it quite possible. Maybe she failed due to a sucky manager, which could explain why she's so extreme in her efforts to do a perfect job for Yuki. At the same time, a very scary woman. Scary, how far she's willing to go.

Not much to say about Rina, except that she happily accepted the "-chan" (the first instance with Touya semi-asleep doesn't count), and that due to the sound of her voice I doubt that the issue she wanted to talk about was a problem of hers. Probably she wants to talk with him about Yuki and get one hour more of goddess cake.

Looking forward to the next ep! I wished I wouldn't have to wait a week time and time again, but at the same time I also believe that this show would be very ill-suited for marathoning. You'd miss too many details in the process.

[DingoEnderZOE2]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Hung jury about Touya. On one hand, I do respect that he let Yuki sleep when he returned, even though he was clearly disappointed about this turn of events. He also eventually rejected Yayoi's bribery attempts with cash and sex, but he WAS fantasizing about her lips throughout the episode, along with memories of Rina too. So, he _is_ susceptible to outside temptation, but so far, he's been shying away briefly before giving in.

Hmmm Would average guys really be so rude as to wake a girl up and go "Hey you wake up we're supposed to be having some fun time not sleepy time!"?

As for Yayoi's creepy seduction, I say to this that any man who can reject the temptation of sex AND money combined from an attractive yet creepy woman earns my respect on the spot,and boy it looked like Yayoi was offering quite a bit.

[SonOfHeaven]

Hopefully we get more background info on Yayoi soon. Wasn't expecting Yayoi to do that to Touya.

[DingoEnderZOE2]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

Hopefully we get more background info on Yayoi soon. Wasn't expecting Yayoi to do that to Touya.

Yeah for as robotic as she seems, she didn't seem like the type to do something like that huh?

[meh]

Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2

Hmmm Would average guys really be so rude as to wake a girl up and go "Hey you wake up we're supposed to be having some fun time not sleepy time!"?

As for Yayoi's creepy seduction, I say to this that any man who can reject the temptation of sex AND money combined from an attractive yet creepy woman earns my respect on the spot,and boy it looked like Yayoi was offering quite a bit.

The way she did it though was just plain messed up. You'd have to be Makoto-level horniness to consent to that. At the very least, any non-idiot would at least think that there must be something up.

During the episode, I was thinking Yayoi would be be sneaking some pictures of her and Touya together, and somehow "leaking" it to Yuki. That would actually be the most affective method of breaking them up.

[Sorrow-K]

Ep 5

Oh man, what a loser! The girl is so unexcited about the prospect of sex that she falls asleep before it happens. The only thing that would have been worse for Touya's ego is if Yuki fell asleep during...

I'm starting to accept that Touya is a very limited character, and there's very little interest from this anime in developing his character. Yuki's a bit the same, but there's less excuse with Yuki... the flat male lead who's there purely to make poor decisions for the sake of drama is a staple for this genre, but there's a greater necessity to make the important female characters interesting, simply because that's who the audience are interested in. Yuki is just not interesting, and they're fast running out of time to change that. If it turns out that she's only there to be at one end of a crumbling relationship with the male lead, then she's a plot device in a wasted role.

Yayoi had the potential to be an interesting character, especially with the turn of events in this episode, but I had the feeling throughout this episode that something was holding her back, and I think Sinestra nailed it: there's no emotions with this woman. Here was a great opportunity for drama, as well as an opportunity to make a comment on the grotesque nature of the idol industry (which they did successfully to a fair extent), but it wasn't nearly as effective as it could have been, because the evidence of the adverse effects that the ugliness of the industry had on Yayoi were disguised by her lack of emotions. When watching her, one asks the question, does she do this because she cares about Yuki's success and was affected by her failure with Rina, or does she do this because she's a career orientated juggernaut? And, if it's the latter, did her experiences with Rina make her like this, or was she like this from the beginning? Again, I think they've limited the scope to say something interesting about this character by making her, in a certain respect, a caricature. It's a bit like watching a robot... a robot trying to bribe someone with sex, but a robot nonetheless.

I continue to be disappointed with how this show is going about character development. When are they going to say something interesting about the characters, something more than just the bare necessities to set up the plot and ensuing drama.

[andiyar]

I find myself rather enjoying White Album... though I must confess I continue returning to the middle of episode 3 and watching Nana Mizuki sing, over and over again. I really want that song ^_^

I think I may return with a more detailed analysis later - I'm currently cutting film together - but I am falling somewhere between Sorrow-K and Mentar here in terms of how I feel about the characters of White Album. I suppose I can sum it up in a few words (mostly): They aren't very rounded, but I still find them mostly captivating.

Interesting. I normally detest flat characters.


-Andiyar

[apr]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

I continue to be disappointed with how this show is going about character development. When are they going to say something interesting about the characters, something more than just the bare necessities to set up the plot and ensuing drama.

There are many ways to enjoy a show. Perhaps you've been approaching White Album from the wrong angle? It's been 5 episodes and all you do is whine. Try stepping back, clearing your mind of expectations, and watching it all over again.

To me, White Album is one big mystery, and we are its detectives. Follow Touya as he moves through the world of a past age, sense his thoughts as they trickle out. Who are these people he interacts with? What could they possibly want? Why do they act as they do? Spot the clues, pick them up, touch them, smell them, ponder their significance. Soon more will be revealed, new hints found under rocks previously unturned. Touya is not a very precise instrument, but his actions stir up currents, and in every meeting with people, we can see new possibilities appear as the water shifts. White Album is an excavation - covered in sand - and Touya is our brush.

You just don't seem to have the patience, or the trust in the creators, to appreciate this series. Or perhaps the imagination? What I most enjoy is the potential, and as long as I believe the next episode can bring me the piece I need to make sense of it all, that final clue to solve the case, I'll continue to love White Album.

In the end it may fail, as many shows do, but the journey there will still have been magical.

[SuperKnuckles]

Haha, this episode had all the trappings of typical soap opera. Apparently Rina's manager was that traumatized by something and she's going gung ho over it beneath her cool exterior? Eiji having a possible relationship with Yuki? Jeez.

Also, apparently, the 'pastel-art = female romantic interest' struck again.

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

The whole situation with Yayoi blew me away i was like WTF. But after i thought about it some of her actions make sense. She really is like a lifeless doll even her lips were cold according to Touya. Her manner of speaking her posture everything about her seems robotic. To me Yayoi is a women who has nothing but her work thats it and she is willing to go through any lengths to make sure her work is carried out properly. Even if she would have slept Touya she probably would have laid there like a dead fish. She does not show emotion and thats why it was somewhat easy for Touya to resist her in all honesty she is a pretty women with no sex appeal.

I do not know if they rewrote Yayoi's personality for the anime series, but the CGs from the original game definitely portray her as the most, ahem, "assertive" of the heroines during her h-scenes. I'll be following the developments with her character closely.

It's interesting that Leaf decided on this new paradigm for its "AAA" titles. Normally most eroge titles are released with the PC version first, console version second. To Heart 2 was the first major exception I know of, and given how much money Leaf made off of To Heart 2's PC adult version, I think the notion of one for White Album will be very hard for the company to resist, especially in these hard economic times.

If I'm reading Nana Mizuki's role list right, she may have been paid to make "censored" noises already. Apparently she played the main heroine from the eroge "Hourglass of Summer" (illustrated by the same guy who did Tomoyo After, one of Clannad's spin-offs), on the PC version.

I'm confused about just how much eroge roles hurt the careers of Japanese VAs. I don't think people like Shizuka Itou, Rina Satou, or Hitomi Nabatame have been reduced to pariahs for voicing eroge roles (in Itou's case, she's done so quite often). Was To Heart 2 XRATED Rina Satou's first eroge role?

Even if White Album's anime singing seiyuus won't voice an 18+ version, there's more than one way to skin a cat; just have one seiyuu for a heroine's speaking roles and another for that heroine's songs. It'd be like how Sheryl Nome from Macross Frontier was voiced by two VAs--Aya Endo for her speaking roles, May'n for her singing.

If anyone can answer my questions, I'd be most grateful.

[rg4619]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

It's interesting that Leaf decided on this new paradigm for its "AAA" titles. Normally most eroge titles are released with the PC version first, console version second. To Heart 2 was the first major exception I know of, and given how much money Leaf made off of To Heart 2's PC adult version, I think the notion of one for White Album will be very hard for the company to resist, especially in these hard economic times.

Unlike To Heart 2, this is just a revival of an old property. Currently, new titles (the important stuff) are being released on PC first, so there's no particular console-centric trend.

As for a PC version of the White Album remake, we'll have to wait and see.

If I'm reading Nana Mizuki's role list right, she may have been paid to make "censored" noises already. Apparently she played the main heroine from the eroge "Hourglass of Summer" (illustrated by the same guy who did Tomoyo After, one of Clannad's spin-offs), on the PC version.

Actually, the developers of the PC version re-recorded all voiceovers using different VAs.

I'm confused about just how much eroge roles hurt the careers of Japanese VAs. I don't think people like Shizuka Itou, Rina Satou, or Hitomi Nabatame have been reduced to pariahs for voicing eroge roles (in Itou's case, she's done so quite often).

AFAIK, it isn't much of an issue, as long as work is credited under a pseudonym (although fans and industry people clearly know who the VAs really are). However, with top female seiyuu, there seems to be much more reluctance, perhaps for image reasons.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by rg4619

However, with top female seiyuu, there seems to be much more reluctance, perhaps for image reasons.

If a seiyuu already made it to the top, there is no reason to go do that type of "lesser" work because contracts after contracts simply line up at the door step for them to choose from, this is what being a top entertainer essentially means in any entertainment industry and is no different for a seiyuu.

Seiyuu do (or don't do) eroge depending on whether they can find enough work to cover the bills, not so much image reasons. You know the saying - losers can't be choosers, and just using the To Heart example, you only have to look at Ochiai Yurika and what sort of work she does to see how it's just all about the money in the end if you aren't anywhere near the top.

[Julius Firefocht]

NK-DS review of White Album ep5 is up.

http://nk-ds.org/2009/02/white-album...uch/#more-2267

I used a different format for this review, since there was so much drama to write about. Turned out pretty well, I think.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by apr

To me, White Album is one big mystery, and we are its detectives. Follow Touya as he moves through the world of a past age, sense his thoughts as they trickle out. Who are these people he interacts with? What could they possibly want? Why do they act as they do? Spot the clues, pick them up, touch them, smell them, ponder their significance. Soon more will be revealed, new hints found under rocks previously unturned. Touya is not a very precise instrument, but his actions stir up currents, and in every meeting with people, we can see new possibilities appear as the water shifts. White Album is an excavation - covered in sand - and Touya is our brush.

This, I think, captures _exactly_ the appeal the show has to me (and what I suspect is lessening the enjoyment for Sorrow-K). Indeed, the show rewards effort you put into watching it closely and understanding it, because it does NOT spell everything out blatantly. It does NOT go for a mostly-unrelated sequence of weekly climaxes like Honey and Clover or ef, it calmly builds up _one_ story following the classic drama arc development. That is more demanding to the viewer and less "rewarding" early on compared to the shows I listed, if you can't draw pleasure out of the deduction, but I'm convinced that I'll like the eventual resolution much more.

Right now, the pieces are put on the chessboard (though I expect to learn a bit more about Misaki and Mana later), and episode 5 began to spray some gasoline around. The fun for me is trying to spot which will become the spark which will ignite the situation (my guess: it will be a falling-out between Yuki and Rina, with Rina as a consequence deciding to pursue Touya seriously). It's like watching a car accident in slow motion, and right now we're seeing various spots where danger is accumulating. I find that interesting.

The characters are "flat" and there's "no interest in developing characters"? Only if you're unwilling or unable to invest the time to pick up the clues from the show. As an example, I'll take the time to go through episode 5 once and write down what I mean with "picking up clues" (as spoiler to increase readability). Naturally, everything is IMHO and entirely up to debate. Careful, tl;dr warning, don't click on the following wall of text unless you're REALLY interested.

Spoiler for Episode 5:

Legend: (O) = Observation, (D) Deduction, (T) Theory/Speculation, (C) Comment/Personal Opinion, (Q) = Questions raised

00:20 (O) During she shower, Touya looks unsettled while remembering hugs and kisses with Yuki, but also the night walk with Haruka and his passing on of his telephone number to Rina. (D) He feels unsure rather than expectant about sleeping with Yuki. (T) Probably pangs of conscience. He may feel unready to commit.

02:21 (O) Touya sighs disappointedly upon seeing Yuki sleeping, but then smiles and sits down as he watches her sleeping face. (T) He eventually WAS looking forward to it, but decided to let her sleep after all. (C) Both were fully clothed after showering? In the past I kinda skipped that ^_O

02:44 (O) It's light outside, therefore Touya must have stayed the entire night. Touya is clothed differently, and he put Yuki under a blanket. He's obviously having difficulties writing a note to Yuki and crumples it up before leaving. (C) Like before, he just can't seem to express himself. (T) I think he's scared to TELL Yuki about his worries in order not to burden her in her career. Alternatively, he might have realized that he's wavering and looking out to other girls, and he's unready to commit.

03:00 (O) He doesn't look surprised at all to find Yayoi out, (T) probably he correctly drew the conclusions of the doorbell before and expected her to wait. (O) He proactively denies improper conduct. He's surprised about Yayoi's offer to drive him home, but eventually gets in. (C) Reasonable way to deal with it so far, IMHO.

03:58 (O) Touya accepts Yayoi's request of a detour before asking where to and what for. (C) We see one of his defining traits of his: He tends to try to please people as long as he can - in other words, he's a yes-man - and he's fairly passive and averse to confrontation.

04:24 (O) Ominous wording of Yayoi: "If Yuki-san allows it". Touya catches the drift. (C) Yayoi injects a difference of rank in their relationship: Meeting with Yuki is something she has to "allow". It's a poisoned "permission" from her, seemingly accepting Touya, but at the same time rather implying that they're in different leagues. (O) When Touya is playing through the negative results of this realization, she doesn't offer any consolation or encouragement, pleased with her success.

05:38 (O) Her BMW is obviously a German import version - driver on the left side and German labeling of the components. Luxurious equipment, even climatronic, which cost a fortune back in 1986! (Q) Where does she have the money from for that? That's hardly the norm for managers of not-yet-stars? Does she have a past explaining this?

06:11 (O) A-ha! She was Rina's manager in the past, and fired over the intrigue. (C) Her emotionless and sober way of retelling the story underlines Yayoi's extreme level of self-control. She isn't easily intimidated - think back at the way she opposed Rina in ep2 - but it's clear that this story of old had a big big impact on her. It might explain her perfection drive in her work for Yuki. She's been bitten in the past, and now she's REALLY determined not to let something like this happen to Yuki. Also remember her immediate apology for having failed to protect Yuki in ep1 when she was away.

07:33 (O) "But the biggest reason [for surviving the scandal] was that they were strong people". (C) That's what it boils down to Yayoi. Be strong! (O) "And now, Yuki-san is taking a step to become like [the Ogatas]". (C) She will be targeted too!

08:05 (O) "I don't have confidence to completely protect her!" - and Touya turns away with an angry expression, thinking of his recent encounters with Yuki. (T) It's a twofold message to Touya: First, you won't be able to protect her either. And second, you will become a weakness and liability to Yuki, when she's now cast into the spotlight. Expect paparazzi shots the next time you kiss! You're threatening her career!

08:40 (O) "[Do what you want with Rina, I don't care. I'm here to remove hindrances from Yuki-san's career.]" (T) "[And yes, you're a hindrance too, sucker.]" (C) Touya is visibly angry and hurt here, but Yayoi has hit the mark. And it dawns on him

08:58 (O) Touya grasps that since Yayoi considers him a hindrance, she was obviously behind his firing from the job, and that she was the one setting up the saturday extra work. (C) She's doing wonderfully professional consulting-speak here. She doesn't outright lie about her involvement, but the way she's wording things seems to indicate that she wasn't behind it (while she was). Instead, she's baiting Touya with an innuendo about Eiji's involvement. (O) Touya reacts as predicted and immediately gobbles up the bait. (C) Touya is visibly jealous here... doubts or not, she's still HIS everyday! It's usually rare to rile him up, but he's still emotionally invested enough to blow up.

09:44 (O) The coup de grace: "Please don't get in Yuki-san's way! (Touya turning away with an unhappy face, but tacitly accepting the point) "I'm not asking you to do this for free." (Touya flabbergasted turns away, sneering in derision and disgust). "You'll be lonely if you lose Yuki-san" (first, linking fingers with Touya and then pushing his hand on her breast). And Touya recoils in shock while Yayoi watches him calmly. (T) One of the key scenes. Yayoi openly offers sex with her in exchange for Touya giving up on Yuki, it's pretty extreme how far she's willing to go here. She also takes a serious risk here: If Touya would tell Yuki that her manager is trying to seduce him, and Yuki believed him, she'd be in huge trouble. But I think she correctly judged that he wouldn't pull this off. She planted the seed of corruption, and now she'll see if it will grow. Oh, and of course she cares sh*t about Touya's loneliness. For her, it's all about Yuki.

10:40 (O) Sleepy Touya is putty in everyone's hands, I guess. All former snarls of defiance forgotten, he obediently tags along. (Q) Why didn't he tell her to get lost? This is a critical decision, and I find it hard to get a clear reading of Touya here. Again, he tends to go with the flow and avoid confrontation, but is this enough to explain why he caved? I'm unsure here.

11:04 (O) Yayoi sounds almost apologetic when she tells Touya that Yuki really regrets having fallen asleep. (D) This is to demonstrate to Touya that Yuki is close enough to Yayoi to fill her in on her intention. I'm inclined to believe that Yayoi is honestly affected by Yuki's unhappiness. She also sounded genuinely downcast about the stress she caused to Yuki in ep2.

11:34 (O) "You want us to be making the decision to break up by ourselves, huh?" (Yayoi staring straight ahead, not saying a word) (C) "[Yes, of course, you stupid dipshit!]"

11:46 (O) Sharing an umbrella like a couple, suggesting to have dinner together. Aww. (D) Serves a twofold purpose: First, to make the offer of "replacing Yuki" more appealing, she's playing the girlfriend. Second, to remind Touya of times like these with Yuki before implying that they are gone, THINGS OF THE PAST. (T) And, of course, the watercolor frame as an indicator when Touya thinks of a girl as a woman/potential love interest. It's working. Touya gulps.

11:53 (O) Misaki sighs dejectedly on Touya's door. (C) Coming there unannounced without appointment? Hmmm...

12:10 (O) Touya intently stares at Yayoi's lips during dinner. He seems pretty fascinated by them. (D) It's working. Let's be realistic, all cold attitude notwithstanding, Yayoi is very attractive. Touya _is_ affected by her.

12:27 (O) "So, you're trying to bribe me." (C) Yes, of course, you tard. (D) Yayoi is taking this as an opening to make her renew her offer. But of course, when you bribe someone, you never use the word "bribe". So, rather, she consultant-speaks about wanting to be with him, and she moves in to kiss him. (O) Touya is visibly surprised, but even though Yayoi halts only centimeters away from his lips, he doesn't move the head away. He doesn't actively return the kiss, but he doesn't resist it either. We see him think "the cold lips of a doll". (T) My reading: These were the lips he was so fascinated of before, and I believe he was curious enough not to reject the kiss. However, during the kiss he realizes that there was no love or care in Yayoi. Just cold calculation. (O) Yayoi presses on, remarking that he should call her when she has a need for her, and she offers a wad of cash to Touya... (T)...and overplays her hand with it. Now Touya realizes for sure that he IS being bribed and shrieks away. (C) Yayoi won't relent, this wasn't her last shot. And even though she pushed a bit too far in the end, she sensed Touya's weakness. Accepting the date and especially the kiss proved that there's a chink in his armor, and she'll continue to work on it.

13:30 (O) Again, Yuki is hesitating in front of the phone. (T) It's seemingly hard for her to talk to Touya after the botched night together. Since Touya didn't even leave a note, I believe that she expects Touya to be angry with her, see also what Yayoi said before. This is a change for the worse, since she always bubbled with excitement before when talking to Touya.

13:59 (O) While slowly reading through Misaki's manuscript, Touya's mind is wandering to the feel of Yayoi's breast, her plea to break up with Yuki, her lips and her kiss. (C) Oh yes, it did work.

14:30 (O) Rina calls, and Touya seems to relax. His voice returns to normal, and he sounds remorseful to turn down Rina's suggestion to meet for an hour to talk about something. (D) A couple of details are noteworthy here: First, Rina sounded positive and cheerful throughout the call, so I consider it unlikely that what she wants to talk about are any kind of problems affecting her. Rather, she interjected talk about Yuki multiple times, so I think that it's most likely something about her. Rina sounded genuinely disappointed, but didn't pout or push and rather promised to try again at a later date. Also, her voice noticeably lit up when Touya called her Rina-chan - she clearly liked it. (C) So Touya skips on a possible date with Rina in order to help out Misaki (keep in mind, he never promised, so he could have weaseled out without problems). I give him props for that.

15:25 (O) Once more, Yuki draws a deep breath before ringing up Touya. (C) Oh yes, she clearly has a bad conscience hindering her. This is one of my favorite scenes of the episode, underlined by sad background music and with some very nice symbolism in the inner dialogue: Yuki (red, in hiragana): "Sorry" (for last night). Touya (in blue): "Sorry" (I can't deal with even more stuff now, I'm busy, whoever it is). Yuki (in red and katakana): "SORRY!" ... but her growing desperation fades away unheard and unnoticed. Keep in mind, as we've seen, Touya's phone has no display, so he couldn't know who was calling. He just had too much on his plate. And Yuki gets another sad taste of isolation and frustration.

16:10 (O) The notepad conversation. Haruka quickly calls him out on the Echoes lie, and Touma started bragging about spending the night with Yuki. (D) Ouch, poor Haruka. In my opinion, this scene indicates that Haruka STILL has concealed romantic hopes for Touya, because she immediately zoomed in on "with Yuki?" - however, Touya stupidly started bragging about it and then looks surprised when Haruka recoils and averts her face, not answering anymore. In my reading, Haruka was hurt about that. She realized that she had been used by Touya for the registration in order to free him up for a date with Yuki, and she felt exploited, but tried not to let it show.

16:31 (O) Again, Touya misses an appointment. Tamaru is a jackass and drags Misaki away with sneering comments like "will it get better if you sleep over it for 2 hours", so she gives in a moves off with him, missing Touya. (D) Looks like Misaki is much more unsure that I thought in the past. She's visibly uneasy about Tamaru and susceptible for bullying.

17:24 (O) "Why did you think I'd know?" (D) Akira is seriously pissed off about being seen as Misaki's extension, and even tells Touya to stop pushing him like that, explicitly. (O) When Touya tells Akira that Misaki had an appointment with him, his face goes blank and he turns away. (D) "God, why does this asshole get all the attention, while he yet so nonchalant about it? Feh!"

18:30 (O) Another Haruka attempt to spend time with Touya, quickly shot down. (D) The way Haruka acted in the past, I'm fairly certain that she's the classic case of the osananajimi that has romantic hopes with the lead, regardless of the fact that she has "lost" in the past. Nevertheless, she can't let go, and tries to spend as much time with Touya as she can, with the hidden hope that maybe, just maybe her patience will be rewarded in the end. You are with the one you love, and when you really love, what matters to you is to make the other one's life easier. If you can help the other one, it's worth it. And when you can be with him for a while, that's great too. It's a very thankless task with Touya however, since he is very consciously holding her away at arms' length. But since he's a klutz in communication, he doesn't even realize how much he hurts her every once in a while. Conclusion: Haruka really needs more (and other) friends.

19:00 (O) Bullying scene from the thespian club assholes. The only really interesting line: "This is nothing compared to what you did to me, don't you think?" (D) Since Misaki doesn't object or ask what he's talking about, obviously something special happened. (T) Wild guess: She replaced him as scriptwriter or something like this. I doubt that it's that she rejected him (like how it was floated in a note before). (D) Also, Misaki is definitely weaker than expected since she didn't object to the extra work.

20:15 (O) Eiji scolds Yuki for not being concentrated enough. She promises to try harder... (D)...but she's clearly affected. The failed night is weighing down on her. (O) However, Yayoi smiles at Yuki's determination to try harder. This is how she wants her girl to be. Fight! Work! Don't be distracted!

20:30 (O) Hahaaa... secret door. (C) So that's why Touya was looking so confused - he had to think that Rina pulled Eiji out of a broom closet. I like that this mystery of old is now being explained, since this gives me confidence that the same will happen to other unanswered questions too. Obviously, Eiji was at the end of the secret passage, and Rina knew about it aswell (see end of ep3). (T) I guess he's working on songs there.

21:06 (O) Without much of a greeting or thanks (seems that a wave is Yuki's idea of a proper goodbye) Yuki is using Haruka as gofer to send a message to Touya. (D) And yet again, Haruka is doing Touya extra favors when she's translating Yuki's message which Touya obviously didn't grasp himself. It was extra painful to see her leave with a standard thanks for someone doing a favor or service to you. However, it should have been something Touya should have said to HER instead. As usual, lost on Touya. Poor Haruka.

21:50 (O) Touya is scrolling through all his goddesses and his everyday. Yuki, Rina and Yayoi. (D) Well, Yuki is waiting. Cool. That's where Touya's headed. (O) "Become Yuki's replacement my ass!" (D) Yuki's much better after all. Let's see her.

22:20 (O) Breakdown call from Misaki. "I don't know what to do!". And at the same time, in internal thoughtspeak, "I'm the one who doesn't know what to do!" (D) So now what? Make peace in Yuki's arms or help a friend dissolved in tears crying for help? The rest of the world has conspired against him and is keeping him away from Yuki. (T) I believe that he will go to Misaki after all, and Yuki will end up more hurt because he'll fail to properly communicate it, as always.

So. This was just a rundown of the most important parts. I'll probably add my overall analysis of the characters later. As you can see, alot of this is conjecture and speculation. Whoever considers this process to be annoying or tedious probably won't like WA much. I on the other hand love it _because_ of the required "piecing it together" work. And for me, the characters aren't flat in the least

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

...I'm starting to accept that Touya is a very limited character, and there's very little interest from this anime in developing his character. Yuki's a bit the same, but there's less excuse with Yuki... the flat male lead who's there purely to make poor decisions for the sake of drama is a staple for this genre, but there's a greater necessity to make the important female characters interesting, simply because that's who the audience are interested in. Yuki is just not interesting, and they're fast running out of time to change that. If it turns out that she's only there to be at one end of a crumbling relationship with the male lead, then she's a plot device in a wasted role...

That is true Touya is a simpleton so far and Yuki is the same selfish girl idolizing Rina. Right now Rina is what is making this show so good as far as characters go. The presentation of the plot is what has me going. I really like the on screen text, even though a lot of people dislike it, it gives more insight into the character while they are interacting with someone.

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

.... And for me, the characters aren't flat in the least

Yes! Although they aren't developing much there is plenty of depth to them.

[Sorrow-K]

@Mentar: But that basically comes back to what I've been saying all along. How much of what you've speculated from the details either isn't going to be explicitly stated down the road when it becomes pertinent to the plot or isn't going to be eventually irrelevant? It's not like these details are keys to a mystery, in most cases, they're indicators of the states of the various relationships.

I just think that the effort that this show is asking from the audience eventually needs to be rewarded, and I don't consider watching a car crash in slow motion to be a rewarding experience. I place a huge emphasis on characters in drama, drama absolutely hinges on characters, IMO. What did we learn about the two main characters in this episode, based on what you've written? Touya is a yes man (not obvious, possibly important), he's tempted by a woman despite being in a relationship (obvious, although the extent to which he's been tempted isn't), and he's bewildered by the choice he has to make between Yuki and Misaki (fairly obvious, a dilemma he has to solve in the next ep). Yuki is affected by the fact that she couldn't stay awake long enough to please her man (fairly obvious, may or may not be important, I'm guessing more likely not). None of this really makes them all too much more interesting or dynamic than they were prior to this episode. It makes for a stark contrast with something like, to pick a random example out of thin air, Marimite, which used its most recent episode to say a lot of very interesting things about three of its characters and their respective relationships, and it did this in what was essentially a filler episode.

My question is, is White Album's approach to storytelling and character analysis superfluous and is there any real benefit to the storytelling or emotional delivery by being this opaque? It almost seems to be a way to force the audience to engage with the story, rather than the story being engaging in its own right, which almost leads me to think it's a gimmick. The key question is whether the story engaging in its own right, and while the series is failing to say anything of interest about its characters or making them more dynamic or having them face dilemmas that the audience can sympathize with, I'd say the answer is "no". It's still the same inane soap opera romance about a bunch of unlikable characters making foolish decisions for the sake of contrived melodrama whether you dress it up with a subdued delivery and overly respectful storytelling approach or not. This is why I'm highly suspicious that the whole thing is a facade, and, despite its subtle approach, the ending is very likely going to be anything but subtle. If that happens, then what's the point of it being subtle (to the point of being opaque) in the first place?

I watched The Wrestler over the weekend, which was an interesting film for a number of reasons, one of which was because it took a subdued and subtle approach to a subject matter that one normally wouldn't expect to take a subdued and subtle approach to. This is a case where the approach enhanced the storytelling, because it allowed the audience to intimately and sympathetically view a vignette of the life of the main character and they used numerous opportunities to analyze and develop the character to explore a number of different sides of him. The film was tempered, reflective and philosophical, which enhanced its capacity to be emotionally affecting. The difference between The Wrestler and White Album is that, while both are taking a subdue approach to storytelling, White Album is missing its opportunities to make comments about the characters to show that they're interesting and multifaceted, something more than the confused male lead that can't maintain his relationships and the bland female lead who's stuck in the middle of three different tug-of-wars.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by apr

There are many ways to enjoy a show. Perhaps you've been approaching White Album from the wrong angle? It's been 5 episodes and all you do is whine. Try stepping back, clearing your mind of expectations, and watching it all over again.

You're going a bit overboard with your own criticism here. Everyone is welcome to express their own opinions, and Sorrow-K's is both quite well informed and well articulated. It's not the kind of opinion that's based on unrealistic expectations or anything like that.

Originally Posted by apr

To me, White Album is one big mystery, and we are its detectives. Follow Touya as he moves through the world of a past age, sense his thoughts as they trickle out. Who are these people he interacts with? What could they possibly want? Why do they act as they do? Spot the clues, pick them up, touch them, smell them, ponder their significance. Soon more will be revealed, new hints found under rocks previously unturned. Touya is not a very precise instrument, but his actions stir up currents, and in every meeting with people, we can see new possibilities appear as the water shifts. White Album is an excavation - covered in sand - and Touya is our brush.

While I'm probably not as negative about White Album as Sorrow-K is, I share some of the same misgivings. While you see it as a big mystery, I see it as a relatively straightforward affair. The only thing I have a question about is why Rina is trying so hard to setting Touya and Yuki together. If it was because she had her own romantic intentions towards him, I'd imagine that those should be based on more than the - what? - two face to face meetings and two telephone conversations they shared. And even here, there's obvious plot-related reasons for this interest. Aside from that, the only "mysteries" that I see existing for the characters are their individual backstories - which I'm sure we'll learn in due time.

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

I do not know if they rewrote Yayoi's personality for the anime series, but the CGs from the original game...

Please let this be the last "hint" from the game. I'm not going to regard this as a spoiler, but note that the only story discussion allowed from the game is:

Originally Posted by Spoiler Policy

Spoilers are permitted in limited circumstances, provided that they are posted under clearly marked spoiler tags. These exceptions include:

• Posting and discussing content found on official sites or blogs.
• Answering specific questions about past or current events using knowledge of the source material. (We strongly encourage posters to discuss any spoilers via PM, rather than in the work's discussion thread.)
• Comparing events in an adaptation to the way they were presented in the source material or other adaptations. (Discussions about the source material itself, or extended comparisons should be directed to the appropriate manga/novel/game thread.)

Anyone who is interested in game spoilers will say so, and you're best off answering their questions with a PM.

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

It makes for a stark contrast with something like, to pick a random example out of thin air, Marimite, which used its most recent episode to say a lot of very interesting things about three of its characters and their respective relationships, and it did this in what was essentially a filler episode.

That's a bit unfair! Marimite might well have the best writing of any current anime !

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

My question is, is White Album's approach to storytelling and character analysis superfluous and is there any real benefit to the storytelling or emotional delivery by being this opaque? It almost seems to be a way to force the audience to engage with the story, rather than the story being engaging in its own right, which almost leads me to think it's a gimmick.

You're encapsulating my feelings very well. I think that White Album is a better show when it uses more straightforward storytelling. On the other hand, I sort of like contrived melodrama, so I'm a bit more optimistic about the future episodes .