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Old 2012-04-12, 18:20   Link #1821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisaoFan View Post
First you can't stand of Yosuga no Sora and HanTsuki and now this !?
It seems you are not a fan of romantic dramas.
LOL. Mostly yes. Of the anime romantic dramas I've seen, the only ones I've liked are CLANNAD (all Key really, but CLANNAD especially), Millennium Actress (not sure if that counts), and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. Why? Because I liked the characters. I didn't like them in Yosuga No Sora (too shallow), HanTsuki (deep hatred for them), Makoto Shinkai movies (too bland), or AnoHana (too whiny and the drama didn't flow naturally).

ef, I don't like because the characters are either stock or selfish. It worked better when I was younger. Now that I'm older, the multiple cell phone messages just creep me out.
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Old 2012-04-12, 20:36   Link #1822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
And that's why i also said some bad ones won't sell.
So let me see if I have this correctly...

I stated that maybe the reason an adaptation sucks is because the source material itself sucks, to which you replied by saying you doubt a studio would waste its time adapting something that isn't somewhat promising. I replied by saying the studios are just looking to make money, as you said, regardless of the quality the source material although at point you already clarified your earlier statement of somewhat promising meaning it [the adaptation] will have a good chance of making decent sales.

Makes sense. However, I don't see how well an adaptation sells refute my initial claim that entertained the possibility that the reason an adaptation is bad is because the original source itself is bad.
Quote:
As for making quick money, the most obvious ones are the ones with moe appeal or huge amount of fanservice. But in most cases , the original work already had some of those elements in it.
...When in this page of the topic did I ever bring up moe' or fanservice?
Quote:
Also can you think of many animes that are almost not related to their sources, that end up selling well? Like i have said it earlier, by not bringing some faithfullness to it's source you are likely going to lose a huge amount of people.
Do you really think that series like Persona 4, Fate/Zero and Horizon would have had that many DVD and blu-ray sales if it weren't for the already established fanbase?
I haven't a clue why this is being brought up but I'll bite:
Are you absolutely sure the preexisting fandom for any of the shows you listed consisted of even the plurality of their sales? Depending on the popularity of the source material itself and how well or not the adaptation sells, the audience an adaptation loses could be insignificant or it could be substantial.

In other words, I don't find it productive making a sweeping statement that attributes the quantity of sales of any adaptation to being related, or unrelated, to the source material but instead should examine each series on a case-by-case basis (which I don't feel like doing. I'll leave that to someone else.).

And anyway...the tangent we went off in regarding sales was only for decent sales (you said "somewhat promising" and you seem to be using that in terms of sales, so...) not the blockbuster-like sales (what I assume you mean by "selling well"). For what's it worth though, I heard the K-On! anime was pretty different from the manga but we all know how much money that one made for KyoAni. Even if the two were similar, I honestly get the feeling it was the anime which really made the series very popular instead of the manga (although I don't know if that's true. Can someone confirm or deny?).
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Old 2012-04-13, 05:15   Link #1823
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
So let me see if I have this correctly...

I stated that maybe the reason an adaptation sucks is because the source material itself sucks, to which you replied by saying you doubt a studio would waste its time adapting something that isn't somewhat promising. I replied by saying the studios are just looking to make money, as you said, regardless of the quality the source material although at point you already clarified your earlier statement of somewhat promising meaning it [the adaptation] will have a good chance of making decent sales.

Makes sense. However, I don't see how well an adaptation sells refute my initial claim that entertained the possibility that the reason an adaptation is bad is because the original source itself is bad.
Do you even know some series at all that are adapted from a diferent and the writers of the anime decided to throw away the original sttory because it sucked? I am pretty anxiously to find that out which series that you have in mind, because frankly i don't know many in which the anime adaptation threw away it's original's plot from the beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
...When in this page of the topic did I ever bring up moe' or fanservice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
Most of the studios making those adaptations are just looking to make quick money. How good the source material is, or lack thereof, is often irrelevant so long as it [the adaptation] can sell.

As you said, it's the primary goal of any industry to make money.
I mentioned it as a reply to your previous post, because you were talking about making quick money and those genres are prime examples of selling somewhat regardless if the source was good or bad . Even those fanservice series like To-Love-Ru, Rosario+Vampire and Seikon no Qwaser still followed most of their manga counterparts (if we disinclude filler episodes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
I haven't a clue why this is being brought up but I'll bite:
Are you absolutely sure the preexisting fandom for any of the shows you listed consisted of even the plurality of their sales? Depending on the popularity of the source material itself and how well or not the adaptation sells, the audience an adaptation loses could be insignificant or it could be substantial.
Ok if it weren't for the existing fanbase, can you explain these sales then compared to other animes from last year?

Fate/Zero (ufotable/Aniplex of America)
2012/03/07 47,623 Blu-ray Disc BOX I (Thirteen re-edited episodes, episode one is a 60 minute special)

Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere (Kyoukaisen no Horizon) 21,107 (4+) (Sunrise/Sentai Filmworks)
2011/12/22 24,605 I Limited Edition (One episode)
2012/01/27 21,716 II LE (Two episodes up to VII)
2012/02/24 21,409 III LE
2012/03/23 16,696 IV LE

Persona 4: The Animation (Persona 4) *7,900+23,163=31,063 (5+) (AIC ASTA/Sentai Filmworks)
2011/11/23 11,410 Vol. 1 Limited Edition (One episode)
2011/12/21 *8,051 Vol. 2 LE (Three episodes up to current volume)
2012/01/25 *7,722 Vol. 3 LE
2012/02/22 *6,746 Vol. 4 LE
2012/03/21 *5,570 Vol. 5 LE
2011/11/23 29,959 Vol. 1
2011/12/21 23,890 Vol. 2
2012/01/25 22,524 Vol. 3
2012/02/22 21,514 Vol. 4
2012/03/21 17,921 Vol. 5

Keep in mind that the Manabi line is 3,5k sales. Each of those series have surpassed that ammount several times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post

In other words, I don't find it productive making a sweeping statement that attributes the quantity of sales of any adaptation to being related, or unrelated, to the source material but instead should examine each series on a case-by-case basis (which I don't feel like doing. I'll leave that to someone else.).
First you should think of thinking up any animes at all that have drifted away from it source. Because so far, i don't have any comparisons because i can't think (m)any and you claim that there quite of them out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
And anyway...the tangent we went off in regarding sales was only for decent sales (you said "somewhat promising" and you seem to be using that in terms of sales, so...) not the blockbuster-like sales (what I assume you mean by "selling well"). For what's it worth though, I heard the K-On! anime was pretty different from the manga but we all know how much money that one made for KyoAni. Even if the two were similar, I honestly get the feeling it was the anime which really made the series very popular instead of the manga (although I don't know if that's true. Can someone confirm or deny?).
The K-on manga was from the start already quite popular and promising before the anime came out due to the high sales. .
As quoted from wiki

"The first manga volume of K-On! was the 30th highest-selling manga volume in Japan for the week of April 27 and May 3, 2009, having sold over 26,500 volumes that week.[103] The following week, the first and second manga volumes were the 19th and 20th highest-selling manga volumes in Japan, having sold 23,200 and 22,500 volumes each the week of May 4 and May 10, 2009. As of May 2009, the first two manga volumes each sold about 136,000 copies each.[104] The third volume sold over 120,000 copies the week of December 14–20, 2009,[105] and became the 46th top-selling manga for the first half of 2010 in Japan (ending May 23), selling over 328,000 copies.[106]"

The manga is diffrent from the anime because it was in a 4-koma format but the anime was still quite faithfull to manga.
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Old 2012-04-13, 06:06   Link #1824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
LOL. Mostly yes. Of the anime romantic dramas I've seen, the only ones I've liked are CLANNAD (all Key really, but CLANNAD especially), Millennium Actress (not sure if that counts), and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. Why? Because I liked the characters. I didn't like them in Yosuga No Sora (too shallow), HanTsuki (deep hatred for them), Makoto Shinkai movies (too bland), or AnoHana (too whiny and the drama didn't flow naturally).

ef, I don't like because the characters are either stock or selfish. It worked better when I was younger. Now that I'm older, the multiple cell phone messages just creep me out.
Just out of curiosity, did you watch Kimagure Orange Road or Maison Ikkoku? If no, you may want to check them out.
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Old 2012-04-13, 10:13   Link #1825
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Just out of curiosity, did you watch Kimagure Orange Road or Maison Ikkoku? If no, you may want to check them out.
I never heard of the first one. As for the second one, I don't like Rumiko Takahashi, so I'm biased against watching that one.
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Old 2012-04-13, 10:28   Link #1826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
I never heard of the first one. As for the second one, I don't like Rumiko Takahashi, so I'm biased against watching that one.
Kimagure Orange Road is mostly a love triangle, and one of the girls is the earliest example of tsundere, however, she is favorably rated as tsundere, even by people who don't like tsundere. Just take out the whole abusive b*tch angle popularized by Akane Tendo, Naru Narusegawa and Louise , and there you have Madoka Ayukawa.


As for Maison Ikkoku, let me tell you, I did not like other works by Rumiko Takahashi that much, to me Ranma 1/2 and Urusei Yatsura did not stand the test of time that well, perhaps because I am tired of the whole "female abuse male with no consequence and because ITS COMEDY" that Takahashi have abused and popularized. However, Maison Ikkoku is the single work by her that I thoroughly respect and can rewatch without regret. It's to me her more mature work. It's really worth checking out.
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Old 2012-04-13, 10:59   Link #1827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Kimagure Orange Road is mostly a love triangle, and one of the girls is the earliest example of tsundere, however, she is favorably rated as tsundere, even by people who don't like tsundere. Just take out the whole abusive b*tch angle popularized by Akane Tendo, Naru Narusegawa and Louise , and there you have Madoka Ayukawa.


As for Maison Ikkoku, let me tell you, I did not like other works by Rumiko Takahashi that much, to me Ranma 1/2 and Urusei Yatsura did not stand the test of time that well, perhaps because I am tired of the whole "female abuse male with no consequence and because ITS COMEDY" that Takahashi have abused and popularized. However, Maison Ikkoku is the single work by her that I thoroughly respect and can rewatch without regret. It's to me her more mature work. It's really worth checking out.
Just looked up Orange Road. I might check that one out because it looks interesting. The latter will have to wait.
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Last edited by Flawfinder; 2012-04-13 at 13:34.
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Old 2012-04-13, 12:26   Link #1828
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Just reminding myself and maybe others:
-----
The point of the thread is to vent about anime one hates and that they don't get why others like it. There's no reason to defend or explain an anime here. And there's really no reason that a poster has to make sense when expressing their "!ARGH!"

In some cases, it may be more illuminating about the poster themself than the anime they're ranting about.

---
On topic, I'll admit to tiring of some people who get fixated on "action adventure for little boys" sub-genre and never expand their horizons. They claim to be "anime fans" but they're really only interested in either one anime or in a very small subset of anime offerings. I have a few examples out of almost any genre that I like. OTOH, the more shouting, posturing, power ups, etc though... the more likely I am to hit the FF button.
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Old 2012-04-13, 15:19   Link #1829
Akuma Kousaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Do you even know some series at all that are adapted from a diferent and the writers of the anime decided to throw away the original sttory because it sucked? I am pretty anxiously to find that out which series that you have in mind, because frankly i don't know many in which the anime adaptation threw away it's original's plot from the beginning.
That's not what I'm talking about and wasn't the whole crux of your argument saying that a studio wouldn't adapt something that wasn't somewhat promising in terms of sales?
Quote:
I mentioned it as a reply to your previous post, because you were talking about making quick money
But...I didn't put you under any obligation to list anything in that quick money post.
Quote:
Ok if it weren't for the existing fanbase, can you explain these sales then compared to other animes from last year?
Impressive figures but that doesn't answer my question:
Are you sure any of the series preexisting fanbases even made up the plurality of the sales?
Quote:
First you should think of thinking up any animes at all that have drifted away from it source. Because so far, i don't have any comparisons because i can't think (m)any and you claim that there quite of them out there.
But I just said I don't feel like doing that...
Quote:
The K-on manga was from the start already quite popular and promising before the anime came out due to the high sales. .
As quoted from wiki

"The first manga volume of K-On! was the 30th highest-selling manga volume in Japan for the week of April 27 and May 3, 2009
That's nice.

You know, from that same wiki, it says the anime came out on April 3rd, 2009, right? Hey wait, did you know the K-On! manga came out in May 2007?
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Old 2012-04-13, 17:23   Link #1830
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Not to step into this... but an example that jumps immediately to mind is Mayoi Neko Overrun! where the anime "adaption team" just decided to make 9/12s of the series omake parodies rather than adapt the story line. It might have been fun for some but definitely not for others.
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Old 2012-04-13, 18:12   Link #1831
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I believe this thread is fueled with fan rivalry than anything else. As I can see from Kameruka's last post, it is obvious that he may hates the fangirls who followed the shows religiously than the shows themselves.
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Old 2012-04-13, 19:23   Link #1832
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naruto!!!!
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Old 2012-04-14, 00:44   Link #1833
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Kimagure Orange Road is probably going on here based on the first four episodes I watched. Holy crap, did I hate them. For it's time, it was probably good, but it is severely outdated as of now.

Ignoring the fact that the characters are stock and the drama reminds me of Glass No Megami, never give me an anime with bullies that aren't funny in it, because they are my number one hated anime cliche due to how boring, annoying, and downright lazy they are. And every single episode I saw had them.

Also, that short-haired girl is the better girlfriend, hands down.
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Old 2012-04-14, 10:03   Link #1834
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Since the recent Natsuiro is kind of reminding me of this bad memory, I'll say this: AnoHana. Its story flow is just completely botched up, so much that I can't enjoy anything else about it.
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Old 2012-04-14, 13:03   Link #1835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
Kimagure Orange Road is probably going on here based on the first four episodes I watched. Holy crap, did I hate them. For it's time, it was probably good, but it is severely outdated as of now.

Ignoring the fact that the characters are stock and the drama reminds me of Glass No Megami, never give me an anime with bullies that aren't funny in it, because they are my number one hated anime cliche due to how boring, annoying, and downright lazy they are. And every single episode I saw had them.

Also, that short-haired girl is the better girlfriend, hands down.
Though I thought KOR was fascinating from a historical perspective ... it doesn't seem to have aged well for modern audiences. Mostly you just have to view in context of the decade it was produced in - it was a milestone for its time (1980s). (No, I had to grit my teeth when I first watched it in the early 2000s).

Maison Ikkoku was produced in the same period (though MI seems to hold up better with modern audiences, it still has secondary characters some find impossibly annoying/distracting). You might watch some of MI and see what you think.
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Old 2012-04-14, 17:53   Link #1836
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Though I thought KOR was fascinating from a historical perspective ... it doesn't seem to have aged well for modern audiences. Mostly you just have to view in context of the decade it was produced in - it was a milestone for its time (1980s). (No, I had to grit my teeth when I first watched it in the early 2000s).
I tried, but like The Flintstones, I respect it for what it was and that's it. But I can't ignore the fact that I've trashed plenty of anime that have either updated on KOR's formula or had less problems than it.

As for Maison Ikkoku, I'm really afraid I may not take too kindly to that either based on what little I saw. But maybe I'll check it out later.
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Old 2012-04-14, 18:24   Link #1837
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I only read a little of the KOR manga but never ended up finishing it (although I always heard KOR: I want to return to that day was the real favorite part of the series).

As for Maison Ikkoku I think it still stands up wonderfully today and is definitely one of the best romantic comedies (and this is not just counting anime) I've ever experienced.
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Old 2012-04-15, 16:23   Link #1838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
That's not what I'm talking about and wasn't the whole crux of your argument saying that a studio wouldn't adapt something that wasn't somewhat promising in terms of sales?
Wasn't your crux that a company will throw away the source's story if they felt it sucked?
My reasoning was if they did that , then they will lose a large portion of their viewers and potential DVD and Blu-ray's for the betrayal. The only kind of series that the companies can throw away the plot without hurting it's sales are series with hardly any plot like my earlier mentioned ecchi fanservice or moe series.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
Impressive figures but that doesn't answer my question:
Are you sure any of the series preexisting fanbases even made up the plurality of the sales?
Besides from having a stupidly high fanbase everywhere on the internet, do you see some other relation between those series that i have mentioned and other random adaptions of 2011 that did not sell well like C^3 , Mashiro iro symphony, Usagi Drop RO-KYU-BU!, Oretachi ni Tsubasa wa Nai, etc. ?
Also you seem to neglict the fact that blu-rays and dvd's of anime series are quite expensive in japan. I doubt that anyone who is not a fan would shell out atleast 70 dollars for 2 episodes. Also it was even worse for Fate/Zero because the series can only be bought as a boxset that costed roughly 500 dollars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
But I just said I don't feel like doing that...
If you are too lazy to do that, well how do you prove your point that there are anime series out there that threw away the plot of it's source and yet still managed to do well?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
That's nice.
You know, from that same wiki, it says the anime came out on April 3rd, 2009, right? Hey wait, did you know the K-On! manga came out in May 2007?
In 2007 K-on wasn indeed published in magazines, however it was on sale in tankobons in 2008. So atleast try to pretend that you have read that wiki page.
As for the actual sales of 2008, you can't find it online since it never made in any weekly top 30 rankings of that year. Yet it already had a fanbase before 2009 and it's popularity rose tremendously after the anime (similar to what the anime adaption of the idolm@ster did to it's original)

Last edited by hyl; 2012-04-15 at 16:39. Reason: typo
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Old 2012-04-15, 17:11   Link #1839
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There are a lot of shows, that take a popular cast of characters and throw them into a completely strange story.
Although I don't know, how many of these are based on a written source originally.

Things like FMP:Fumoffu and Futakoi Alternative come to mind.
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Old 2012-04-15, 17:32   Link #1840
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
There are a lot of shows, that take a popular cast of characters and throw them into a completely strange story.
Although I don't know, how many of these are based on a written source originally.

Things like FMP:Fumoffu and Futakoi Alternative come to mind.
Both are more spin offs from the already aired anime series and not adaptations .
Hence the title Futakoi Alternative
The animes in which the spin offs are based on are adaptations though.

edit: thanks to you, i just remembered another spin off (that i wanted to forget) based on an adapation, the 2nd negima anime : Negima!?

Last edited by hyl; 2012-04-15 at 17:48.
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