AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > Video Games

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-08-04, 18:22   Link #61
Dark Faith
Often Disappointed
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portugal
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
I call BS on that because I've always been quite laggy in TERA (pings ranging from 150-220ms in dungeons) and yet I still managed to clear every dungeon in the game, including Manaya's Core. Latency doesn't hurt the active combat as much as people like to think it does. I think it's mostly an excuse the industry has latched onto because they don't want to actually have to think about encounter design differently.
Not in PvE, perhaps (and c'mon.. it's TERA. It's not exactly a difficult game..), but when you go into PvP with 200+ latency, you'll just be giving yourself and your opponent a headache.

Tab-targetting isn't the most exciting gameplay option out there, but it has its merits and certainly isn't as bad as everyone makes it sound.
Dark Faith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-04, 18:25   Link #62
Kyero Fox
Tastes Cloudy
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Snake Way
Age: 35
My latency must have been pretty bad then XD
__________________
Kyero Fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-04, 18:47   Link #63
Jazzrat
Bearly Legal
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Latency is a netcode issue and have nothing to do with tab targeting. Games that have bad netcodes is going to suck for anyone with high latency whether it's tab or free targeting. I can play Planetside 2 easily with 200 m/s mostly because of it's netcode and client based hit detection and that's a MMOFPS games.
__________________
Jazzrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-04, 19:18   Link #64
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
You can check your base latency (basic connection to the Internet) with the "ping" and "traceroute" (or "tracert" in Windows) to know destinations.

I always check my connection to the first switch in my ISP first and then try different sites that I know the physical location of.

Ingame latency includes the ability of the client and the "mothership" to trade data which, as Jazzrat notes, can turn even a blazing connection into mush with bad coding and bad protocol design.
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-04, 21:12   Link #65
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 39
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
Latency is a netcode issue and have nothing to do with tab targeting. Games that have bad netcodes is going to suck for anyone with high latency whether it's tab or free targeting. I can play Planetside 2 easily with 200 m/s mostly because of it's netcode and client based hit detection and that's a MMOFPS games.
Exactly. MMOFPS games like Planetside work just fine with high pings; it's all in how your netcode is optimized (or isn't, in the case of TERA).

WoW is highly optimized netcode-wise, even back in the early days. I was able to raid during vanilla in Blackwing Lair on a dial-up connection with 600-700ms ping! Brighthouse had done something dumb to the cable in our area so I had to use dial-up until they got it fixed, three months later.

On the other side of the coin, I can lag horribly in TERA with 80ms ping and watch my chara rubberband and bounce all over the screen for no apparent reason.

Active combat isn't the issue; it's poor netcode optimization and packet handling issues. The excuse that latency forces developers to use global cooldowns or passive combat systems like WoW is simply that, an excuse. Active combat games like TERA are harder to design meaningful and challenging encounters for (BHS kinda just failed at this and made almost everything a gear check with few real mechanics) so devs would much rather use passive combat systems.
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-20, 09:12   Link #66
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
So Wildstar has announced its business model, and I'm... iffy.

Basically, you can either have a subscription, or buy creds with in-game gold to get a subscription. The trick is that these creds are bought and sold by players.

Which sounds... weird, because that means the market value is determined by players. Which means the prices will be high. Which means the only players who can afford it are those who play a lot.

As a mechanic that is an obvious attempt to include the casual F2P market without actually going F2P... I don't see this working. Now if there was an F2P option and subscriptions gave a bonus, then it makes sense.
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-20, 09:39   Link #67
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
Hmmm, I'll just say out of all the business models I've worked with, I still like EQ2 the best for that (restricted F2P, subscription, cash shop is for cosmetic gear, potions, housing and furniture).

I finally figured out what has been bothering me the most about Wildstar and I'll self-critique my mood as bizarre. It's the COLOR PALETTE/HUE/BRIGHTNESS/CONTRAST being used in the beta. This is supposed to be a garish cartoon world and that is reflected in the animated featurettes and the artwork. It isn't reflected in the game. Muted, dull, etc. There's also something about the camera angle but I end up keeping my camera eye far up in the sky for tactical reasons instead of down near the character (==reduced immersion).

It may be that the watermarks are affecting the colors and I just need to dinker with playstyle. In the meantime, FFXIV will probably have my attention, and next spring my son may drag me into Elder Scrolls Online. Keeping an eye on this, though. The humor factor, the housing, and some of the aggregation of the 'better things from other MMOs' make it worth some attention.
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-20, 09:44   Link #68
MeoTwister5
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
The business model sounds a bit similar to what Rift is using.
MeoTwister5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-20, 09:52   Link #69
NorthernFallout
The Interstellar Medium
*Author
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: [SWE]
Age: 34
Same business model as EVE's PLEX as well. Main problem being, as you say, the value of the items are dictated by the market.
__________________

NorthernFallout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-20, 12:38   Link #70
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 39
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic
Unfortunately the female chara models in Wildstar look positively ridiculous. Their breasts are huge, and look like torpedoes strapped to their collarbones; they also don't deform correctly with movement.

I'm sorry, Carbine, but BOOBS DON'T WORK THAT WAY.

@Keroko: WS's business model is fine. It's definitely better than any form of cash shop supported F2P.

[mod edit: moved the rest of the post to a different thread]
__________________

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-08-23 at 14:16.
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-20, 13:13   Link #71
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
I keep looking for the rep button for good posts but alas, alackaday.

And yeah, the first time I swung a camera around to watch a character run (human or bunnygirl), I found myself full expecting them to get their nose broken. Seriously?
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-20, 16:29   Link #72
Jazzrat
Bearly Legal
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Considering NCsoft's history, Wildstar will go F2P later unless they can pull off an Eve Online success in terms of creating a dedicated community and an unique experience which i m highly doubtful. It's going to be an uphill battle for them to not only retain players but also keeping the publisher/investor happy.

Feels like they are trying to profit from box purchase and initial sub fee early on.
__________________
Jazzrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-21, 06:33   Link #73
SvenCalBayan
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton
Age: 35
Exclamation

This C.R.E.D.D thing reminds me of the "Chronoscrolls" in TERA... back when TERA was still a P2P MMO.


Frankly, I like P2P models over F2P. That's why I'm going to try FFXIV version 2.0 for about 6 months or so. The combat doesn't please me much, because it's not action like TERA. But you can still avoid some attacks (not all of them). Still, it's the FF series, I'm a fanboy, so I'll give it a shot.

The combat in Wildstar seems more interesting. I hope they include controller support. Because I enjoyed playing TERA with a controller.

I know most PC gamers view controllers as lame... and people should stick with the Keyboard & Mouse combo.

Still, I'm mostly a console gamer, so I will always prefer a controller over Keyboard & Mouse.

I've played TERA with a Logitech F310 and an XBOX360 controller. And contrary to popular belief, I preferred the F310 over the XBOX360 one. The F310 is more like the PS3 dualshock.

The F310 is only 20 to 30 $ in most shops.

I also tried X-Padder with a Dualshock... not bad.

But I gotta tell you... the F310 or the XBOX360 is literally plug & play.

Last edited by SvenCalBayan; 2013-08-21 at 06:48. Reason: error
SvenCalBayan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-21, 08:47   Link #74
Westlo
Lets be reality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenCalBayan View Post
This C.R.E.D.D thing reminds me of the "Chronoscrolls" in TERA... back when TERA was still a P2P MMO.
And if it's anything like Chronoscrolls it will be easy as shit to buy off the AH for any max level character who plays the game a decent amount.

Wish WoW brought this sort of thing in, I would never be paying for a sub again if i could spend 20-50k a month on the AH to extend my sub by a month.
Westlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-21, 08:56   Link #75
Mr Hat and Clogs
Did someone call a doctor
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 40
Oh, like ETC (or PLEX?) in EVE. Cool, yeah wish there was more games with things like that.
__________________
Mr Hat and Clogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-21, 10:18   Link #76
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
Here's the kicker my sister pointed out to me though: What if you're a casual player who wants to get back in after not playing for a while? You might have a bunch of creds you saved up from when you were playing, but you can't log in because your subscription is inactive.

So you would have to pay and subscribe in order to login in order to use your creds...
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-21, 21:16   Link #77
Mr Hat and Clogs
Did someone call a doctor
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Here's the kicker my sister pointed out to me though: What if you're a casual player who wants to get back in after not playing for a while? You might have a bunch of creds you saved up from when you were playing, but you can't log in because your subscription is inactive.

So you would have to pay and subscribe in order to login in order to use your creds...
If it's like what I vaguely remember EVE's ETC's to be like, you could access them from your account page (and email?) anyway.
__________________
Mr Hat and Clogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-21, 21:37   Link #78
Firefly00
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Send a message via ICQ to Firefly00 Send a message via AIM to Firefly00 Send a message via Yahoo to Firefly00
Here, have another DevSpeak...


While these are interesting things to see added to an MMO... if you're getting flashbacks to other games, you're not alone. Jam button(s)/waggle stick to accelerate stun recovery? Lots of fighting games and brawlers do this. Lose your weapon, have to go pick it up? Samurai Spirits/Shodown 2 and its sequel would like to say hi. 'Interrupt armor' is an evolution of a mechanic most visibly represented by Juggernaut in various Marvel vs. Capcom games.
__________________
White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
"Destroyed overnight, or the next one's free."
Arc Nova
Firefly00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 05:48   Link #79
Waven
Itadaki-nyaaa !!
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
IMO it's a very bold move for Wildstar to go subscription-based without a strong brand behind its back. The game will have to do way too many things exceptionally well to survive.

The CREDD alternative seems like a very restricted f2p modification. Hard to tell how much time/effort it will take to be able to completely play for free and how the lack of gold affects your gaming experience - feels like paying the rent; and if you don't get enough CREDD at the end of the month, well then you can't play anymore to get the rest, which means you have to pay real money either to buy CREDDs or subscribe a month.

If the game actually manages to be extremely good then I wouldn't mind a monthly subscription at all since I've grown weary of f2p mmos as well but as it stands all of the mmos since wow (and now including wow) across the board have not been worth the monthly subscription for me. You used to pay for the "massively" aspect in mmos but only very few titles actually emphasize this feature anymore: gameplay is mostly happening in smaller groups, the world separated in servers, channels, instances, phases etc. . For me to pay a monthly fee again an mmo has to offer something regular games don't have or be simply better than regular games. What most mmos actually offer theses days is only an extensive yet slow progression tree.
Waven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 15:32   Link #80
felix
sleepyhead
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Here's the kicker my sister pointed out to me though: What if you're a casual player who wants to get back in after not playing for a while? You might have a bunch of creds you saved up from when you were playing, but you can't log in because your subscription is inactive.

So you would have to pay and subscribe in order to login in order to use your creds...
Unless you can just do it outside of the game. Which is fairly easy thing to make possible.
__________________
felix is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mmorpg

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.