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Old 2006-03-23, 22:20   Link #1341
Zero Shinohara
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Quote:
That is something that also has me puzzled..., remember in season 1 on how Tomoe got Hina.., she got a phone call and the voice of a man asked her a question (will you, or will you not - something similar).., in which she eventualy said yes and thus she got Hina.
When Sui is on the phone looking for a medium, she says exactly the same first words, (will you, or will you not, etc) and then as follows the quote (if I'm not mistakened that is)
This was something I was thinking about the other day too.

I can't really recall much right now, I'm still to watch Traumend again. But I really wanted to know more about this.
I thought something like "The dolls wake up and make up those calls to be "adopted" in order to get energy for a bigger life-span", but it wouldn't make sense, as they aren't awakened unless someone uses their key to make them "work". Laplace certainly sounds like a good person to put there, pulling the strings from the back stage, as it's certainly known that he does. However, I wonder who he really is.

Also, does anyone have any idea of why jun has German books in his storage room? It seems really odd that he has the books shinku was currently reading in Traumend, because there wasn't just one or two. She always had a different one. It sometimes hits me that Jun might really be someone related to Rozen, family-wise. But I don't know.

Bleh, brain's frozen for now.
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Old 2006-03-23, 22:20   Link #1342
blitz1/2
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Kirakishou is already strong, give her a spirit and her powers will multiply!

We all know that RM can kiss and cause special effects. So far, we know 3.

Shinku's kiss- does nothing/make person relax.
Suigintou's kiss- puts you to sleep.
Kirakishou's kiss- KILLS YOU!
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Old 2006-03-23, 22:24   Link #1343
Flo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2
Kirakishou is already strong, give her a spirit and her powers will multiply!

We all know that RM can kiss and cause special effects. So far, we know 3.

Shinku's kiss- does nothing/make person relax.
Suigintou's kiss- puts you to sleep. You'll wake up feeling refreshed!
Kirakishou's kiss- Sexed you up mentally, then you'll start growing weird things on your body, then KILLS YOU!
Fixed for greater justice
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Old 2006-03-23, 22:31   Link #1344
blitz1/2
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You get refreshed after Gin's kiss?! Didn't see that happen to Jun.
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Old 2006-03-23, 22:31   Link #1345
Mincemaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara
This was something I was thinking about the other day too.

I can't really recall much right now, I'm still to watch Traumend again. But I really wanted to know more about this.
I thought something like "The dolls wake up and make up those calls to be "adopted" in order to get energy for a bigger life-span", but it wouldn't make sense, as they aren't awakened unless someone uses their key to make them "work". Laplace certainly sounds like a good person to put there, pulling the strings from the back stage, as it's certainly known that he does. However, I wonder who he really is.

Also, does anyone have any idea of why jun has German books in his storage room? It seems really odd that he has the books shinku was currently reading in Traumend, because there wasn't just one or two. She always had a different one. It sometimes hits me that Jun might really be someone related to Rozen, family-wise. But I don't know.

Bleh, brain's frozen for now.
Funny you should mention the books. We know that Jun's parents were overseas, and I think they were probably working in Germany.

And they must had an interest in German books, buy lots of them and had them all shipped back to their home in Japan. And Nori (Not Jun. He didn't know where all those books come from), having no idea where to put those books, and all the other stuff their parents shipped back, left them all in the storeroom.

And Shinku must had been exploring the houses and by her fortune, found them.

Or maybe Rozen, upon knowing where Shinku is, shipped all the books from the N-field and left them all in the storeroom.
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Old 2006-03-23, 22:33   Link #1346
Flo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2
You get refreshed after Gin's kiss?! Didn't see that happen to Jun.
Cos Jun has no taste lol.
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Old 2006-03-23, 22:38   Link #1347
blitz1/2
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Have you ever wonder how does Suigintou have so many black feathers to use from such small wings.

How many feathers are in those wings? 500 feathers? 1000?
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Old 2006-03-23, 22:40   Link #1348
Zero Shinohara
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Quote:
Shinku's kiss- does nothing/make person relax.
Suigintou's kiss- puts you to sleep.
Shinku's: Will kill me with an overdose of cutely passionate kawaiiness.
Gin's: Will kill me with an overdose of even cutely passionate sexyness.

Quote:
Funny you should mention the books. We know that Jun's parents were overseas, and I think they were probably working in Germany.

And they must had an interest in German books, buy lots of them and had them all shipped back to their home in Japan. And Nori (Not Jun. He didn't know where all those books come from), having no idea where to put those books, and all the other stuff their parents shipped back, left them all in the storeroom.

And Shinku must had been exploring the houses and by her fortune, found them.

Or maybe Rozen, upon knowing where Shinku is, shipped all the books from the N-field and left them all in the storeroom.
Hmm... though that might be a possibility (the parent theory), I really don't think they'd comment that on the anime if it didn't have a purpose. For example, there's a pretty "long" scene where Jun sits with Shinku and tries to read a book in German. She even jokes with him, saying that if he concentrates, he might share abilities with her and read. She then tells him she was lying. (Even this makes Shinku look somewhat cute, sometimes. For her to go out of her normal self, that is. )

I think it might have a further explanation in the series.

Btw, little off-topic, but this is what I'm currently working on:
Note: Don't worry about the crappyness. Will fix it in due time :P

Spoiler:


These're my characters. The one in the middle, might you try to guess who it is? Lol.

Edit:
Quote:
Have you ever wonder how does Suigintou have so many black feathers to use from such small wings.

How many feathers are in those wings? 500 feathers? 1000?
Shinku doesn't wear any kind of rose-petal-holding device, yet she uses it as much as Gin does. I guess it's just one of those things we can't explain. It's part of the original setting, anyway.
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Old 2006-03-23, 22:43   Link #1349
Alu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mincemaker
Funny you should mention the books. We know that Jun's parents were overseas, and I think they were probably working in Germany.

And they must had an interest in German books, buy lots of them and had them all shipped back to their home in Japan. And Nori (Not Jun. He didn't know where all those books come from), having no idea where to put those books, and all the other stuff their parents shipped back, left them all in the storeroom.

And Shinku must had been exploring the houses and by her fortune, found them.

Or maybe Rozen, upon knowing where Shinku is, shipped all the books from the N-field and left them all in the storeroom.
This is VERY interesting.. I realy had compleatly overlooked these subjects..
You guys did a great work analising them though

Henceforth.., after reading and *pondering*, *pondering*, *pondering*... I'll have to say, it realy is quite possible that Jun might someone related to Rozen but has no idea.., the fact that his parents aren't there aswell makes it even more possible, for we can't confirm they're origins..

Since Nori is a compleat clutz.., she stashed away all the books in the basement, along with the old mirror, etc. - thus this fits all together aswell

If Jun realy is related to Rozen... it realy would explain ALOT of questions.
But still not a clue about the artificial spirits or the process in the awake of a Rozen maiden
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Old 2006-03-23, 22:45   Link #1350
Mincemaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2
Have you ever wonder how does Suigintou have so many black feathers to use from such small wings.

How many feathers are in those wings? 500 feathers? 1000?
Seeing that Shinku could generate a large amount of petals, I think we can say the same about Suigintou. The number of feathers on her wings are limited, but I think she, like Shinku, could generate vast quantities when she is on the attack.
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Old 2006-03-23, 22:55   Link #1351
Alu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mincemaker
Seeing that Shinku could generate a large amount of petals, I think we can say the same about Suigintou. The number of feathers on her wings are limited, but I think she, like Shinku, could generate vast quantities when she is on the attack.
Don't forget though.., Suigin Tou ended up losing 1 wing on the 1st season..

I think that the quantity of wings / petals, etc. is based on the power of the Rozen Maiden..., we have seen that when using the power from a medium they become much stronger; though even without a medium they must have a degree of limited power they can use.

As in the 1st season Gin didn't have a medium, so she was fighting on her own.., she ended using using great quantities of power in alot of feathers, and eventualy when near the limit she sent out a last strike with one of her wings to take down Sousei Seki and Suisei Seki.

We also see the protective barriers they used beeing influenced by how much powerfull they are; in traumend when Gin meets Bara, she stroms her with feathers, but its not until when she starts to drain energy from Meg that she is able to send a father through Bara's barrier.

By the way, in that scene.. the way Bara says "Sugoi" its just amazing...
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Old 2006-03-23, 23:00   Link #1352
Zero Shinohara
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Henceforth.., after reading and *pondering*, *pondering*, *pondering*... I'll have to say, it realy is quite possible that Jun might someone related to Rozen but has no idea.., the fact that his parents aren't there aswell makes it even more possible, for we can't confirm they're origins..

Since Nori is a compleat clutz.., she stashed away all the books in the basement, along with the old mirror, etc. - thus this fits all together aswell

If Jun realy is related to Rozen... it realy would explain ALOT of questions.
But still not a clue about the artificial spirits or the process in the awake of a Rozen maiden
I wouldn't really say Jun is related to Rozen directly. A few pages ago I made a whole "essay" on Rozen's origin and the time-span of Rozen Maiden. The last encounter Shinku had with Gin was over 65 years ago, by the way Gin accounts it in hours. (I made the calculations, lol.)
And Shinku also explains that it is very rare for two maidens to be awake at the same time, which really brings about the age of them. I'd say they're over 200 years old. Therefore, Rozen couldn't be in Jun's direct family.

However, the do might have a part of the family that relates to him, somehow. This would definetly explain Jun's excellency at doing manual labor and his ability to fix the Maidens up.

About their spirits, all I know is that all of them are named after Female perfumes. Sui Dream, though, is the one that sounds the most kickass to me. (With Suisei saying it like "SUIIIDO DUREAMU").
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Old 2006-03-23, 23:06   Link #1353
Flo
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If Jun is reallly related to Rozen....

Rozen: Luke....oh wait....*ahem*.....Jun, I am your great great great granfather!
Jun: Nooooooooo~ oh wait, would that make the dolls you created my great great aunties?
Rozen: In a way, yes.
Jun: *Insert Vader's voice* Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo~
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Old 2006-03-23, 23:11   Link #1354
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Rozen: Luke....oh wait....*ahem*.....Jun, I am your great great great granfather!
Jun: Nooooooooo~ oh wait, would that make the dolls you created my great great aunties?
Rozen: In a way, yes.
Jun: *Insert Vader's voice* Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo~
*Is brought back to Newlyed's comics...*

OK, NOW HE'S DOING IT WITH A DOLL...AND IT'S INCEST!
I suppose this should be animated. It'd make whomever does it filthy rich.
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Old 2006-03-23, 23:27   Link #1355
Mincemaker
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Well, calling Jun a maestro does not necessarily mean that he is related to Rozen. It could mean he is exceptionally talented in the arts, as we can see with his sewing skills.

Suigintou mentioned that only a 'maestro' can fix a doll. From there, we know that Rozen is a maestro of doll-making. That also means that Jun is another maestro, though possibly in his case, a maestro in sewing. Suigintou didn't say that the maestro had to be a master of doll-making, so seeing that Jun is a maestro, though not in doll-making but in sewing, he too had the ability to fix dolls.

Which makes me think, does that mean that if Rozen decides to take Jun as his apprentice, any doll that Jun creates would have the quality comparable with Rozen's?
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Old 2006-03-23, 23:31   Link #1356
Lost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
GOTTA LOVE THE
"Try me now and a cute little sister will be included too ~desu"!
She's in her cutest form in there.
I LOL'ed at that part... That comic caught her character very very well, if in a sick depraved way.. Poor Sui yearns for more than Jun's affections.. If I remember correctly, which I should, considering I watched that part just yesterday, its in Episode5, Contract, where she calls all Sakurada's to ask for a master (keep in mind Jun's sir-name is Sakurada)

@Mincemaker/Flo: O' levels, Diploma? Sounds familiar.. Where are you two from?

Quote:
Also, does anyone have any idea of why jun has German books in his storage room? It seems really odd that he has the books shinku was currently reading in Traumend, because there wasn't just one or two. She always had a different one. It sometimes hits me that Jun might really be someone related to Rozen, family-wise. But I don't know.
You know I was wondering that too... I was thinking maybe one of his parents were German, or both were away working in Germany... Never occurred to me Jun might be related.. Its a far shot, yes, but it would explain some stuff, like his abilities and all that.. Other than that, maybe the books floated out of the n-field... Gin was tired of reading. edit: bish.. Mince beat me to it..

@Mince: Jun Maidens definitely dont sound right..
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Old 2006-03-23, 23:32   Link #1357
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Suigintou mentioned that only a 'maestro' can fix a doll. From there, we know that Rozen is a maestro of doll-making. That also means that Jun is another maestro, though possibly in his case, a maestro in sewing. Suigintou didn't say that the maestro had to be a master of doll-making, so seeing that Jun is a maestro, though not in doll-making but in sewing, he too had the ability to fix dolls.

Which makes me think, does that mean that if Rozen decides to take Jun as his apprentice, any doll that Jun creates would have the quality comparable with Rozen's?
Well, in reality, I'd doubt that Jun could eventually surpass Rozen.

In the anime-context, yeah, I'd say that if that were to happen, he probably could make a doll as good as the Maidens. Or he could even create Alice, with enough teaching...
Which, brings here a BIIIIG new point.
What if all of this is just to "train" Jun into getting used to the dolls and understanding the importance of them, and all of that, so that he could one day create the true Alice?

HMMM.
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Old 2006-03-23, 23:37   Link #1358
Lost
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What if all of this is just to "train" Jun into getting used to the dolls and understanding the importance of them, and all of that, so that he could one day create the true Alice?
Then why disperse the dolls? Why not just dump them all at Jun's front door? Unless, of course, Rozen does all that so as to find a worthy successor, not only focusing on Jun, but any people that have interest in Dolls (Kana's master comes painfully to mind). After all, he is 200 years old... The next question is; for what reason does Rozen want to continue his legacy of doll making? As far as I know, those dolls don't exactly serve any useful use..

Also, if Creating Alice can be taught, why didnt Rozen create her in the first place...
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Old 2006-03-23, 23:44   Link #1359
Zero Shinohara
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The next question is; for what reason does Rozen want to continue his legacy of doll making? As far as I know, those dolls don't exactly serve any useful use..
Guess this would be an easy one. To make "Alice", maybe?
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Old 2006-03-23, 23:46   Link #1360
Mincemaker
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I'm from Singapore. And yeah, Jun maidens don't sound right.

And regarding Suiseiseki, it is very clear that she really likes Jun (we see that in Season 1 where she gave Suigintou her artificial spirit because she couldn't bear to see Jun hurt, and in season 2, two or three more episodes). Probably she even planned to make a contract with him after a day or 2 since she met him, but too shy to ask, until Bara came and forced her to ask.

If there ever is a season 3, I think there is going to be tension between Suiseiseki and Shinku, seeing that Shinku is hogging most of Jun's affection and Suiseiseki wanted his affection as well, and received little.

Rozen is an artist, so he obviously thinks like one. Most artists want to continue their legacy, even if their work doesn't serve a purpose.
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