The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll [2006 TV ep. 14]

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by MarcusG

Is this the last episode?

Yes it is and also this episode does not have a next episode preview to confirm that.

[LCeh]

I see, I think I get what you are saying now. So let's just take the theory of her playing the role of snow white and got woken up from her dream as the correct one for now and give a crack at the questions.

Originally Posted by C.A.

Kyon forcing his kiss to Haruhi seems like it on the outside. But why did he do it? He was forced into doing this, you can say Haruhi forced him to kiss her.

Yes, he was definitely forced to kiss her. He kissed her hoping that he could return to the old world.

Is this the reason why this dimension is created? To get a kiss from Kyon?

I think it was mentioned that the dimension was created as a sort of "stress relief" for Haruhi? If that was the case, I think we can also assume this to be true, she wanted more from Kyon, since she was obviously jealous of what's going on between him and Mikuru, and so this big fuss came upon them.

If Kyon forced a kiss, or was forced to give a kiss, is he really not happy and reluctant to kiss Haruhi?

I have two things to mention here. One, Kyon did say that she was more than just a classmate to him, but he never said that he liked her in a romantic way either.

The second thing is, the baseball episode. When Koizumi mentioned this incident to Kyon, he refused to do it again, which probably suggests that he didn't really want to kiss her at that time.

Did Haruhi really wanted a kiss from Kyon, or did she not?

I think Haruhi definitely wanted a kiss from Kyon, simply because after that, she got a ponytail.

[Thelastguardian]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Kyon forcing his kiss to Haruhi seems like it on the outside. But why did he do it? He was forced into doing this, you can say Haruhi forced him to kiss her.

Is this the reason why this dimension is created? To get a kiss from Kyon?

Snow White and Sleeping Beauty was poisoned/under a spell, that can only be cured by a kiss.

Did Haruhi cast this spell to get a kiss?

If Kyon forced a kiss, or was forced to give a kiss, is he really not happy and reluctant to kiss Haruhi?

Did Haruhi really wanted a kiss from Kyon, or did she not?

1. So that Haruhi thinks, "Ahh the real world is interesting. There is a person I like that likes me back. Maybe being in the real world is not so bad afterall. I am sure more interesting things will happen between us!"
For Kyon, he did it to...save the world?
KyoAni skipped Kyon's monologue in that scene; Here is the original novel monologue right before his "sweet talk"

I got it! Didn't Asahina say something about it? That prophecy! And Nagato's last message. Snow White and Sleeping Beauty. Please, even I know what Sleeping Beauty means! What is the similarity between these two stories? In our dire situation, the answer was practically shouting out loud.
Man, this is so lame.
It's way too lame! Asahina, Nagato. I'll never accept such a development! Never!
My rationality insisted on that. But humans were never a lifeform that relied only on reason to survive. Maybe they needed a bit of what Nagato called "mixed-up data". I let go of Haruhi's hand, grabbed her shoulder, and turned her towards me.

Yeah. You can say everyone forced him to kiss Haruhi.

2. Who knows. Next?

3. Who knows. If you can answer the second question, you can answer this one; I don't think so, personally.

4. The quote answered this question already.

5. If she didn't want the kiss, the worlds (both) would have been destroyed.

[arcticphoenix16]

Originally Posted by LCeh

The second thing is, the baseball episode. When Koizumi mentioned this incident to Kyon, he refused to do it again, which probably suggests that he didn't really want to kiss her at that time.

Umm, you wanna admit to the school that you're in a relationship with Haruhi?? I can understand Kyon's reluctance

Great episode. The ending left me satisfied, and HAPPY!!

Man and Woman #1:
Man: "i love you!"
Woman: "i love you too!"
*kiss

Man and Woman #2:
Man: "you're hot!"
Woman: *blushes
*kiss

Man and Woman #3:
Man: "You looked so good in a ponytail that it was almost criminal."
Woman: "Huh???"
*kiss

No doubt, Kyon owned all the guys on earth.

[Orchunter226]

Wow, that last episode was "so good it was almost criminal." I gotta say, that I REALLY HOPE that a second season is on the way. But if there is no second season, I can be content that such an excellent anime series was ever shown.

I think that when Kyon kissed her it sent the back because she wanted things to be the way they were that brought Kyon and her together, which wasn't the situation it was in, it was all the things before that, and her ponytail .

[C.A.]

lol I guess the ponytail truly is a reward for Kyon.

And for whether both worlds will be destroyed, we aren't really sure, because Haruhi could probably shape this world as she likes just like the original world. Itsuki also mentioned that the destruction by the shinjin will spread and the space will become larger, eventually taking over the previous world, making this world the new world. I think if anything would happen, the world that Haruhi is in will always be the final one to remain.

[Shirobane]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

I have to give this episode a 9. Very well done. The only real complaint I have is Kyon mentioning he was going to tell Haruhi about aliens, espers, and time travellers, but we never get to see that conversation. I was looking foward to that... Apart from that, I can't really see any flaws.

But you must admit, that it was a beautiful way of ending things in referencing what started the adventures of SOS団.

I now have to upgrade the rating for this ending from a great ending to a super-awesome-totally-amazing ending. This episode simply does not lose its wow factor. I completely agree with Prodigious, the entire episode changed when you can see that each line was delivered with amazing precision.

@C.A.: I don't think Haruhi specifically wanted a kiss form Kyon. The dimension was created because of Haruhi's boredom and we know that she feels bored because she isn't living a life different from anyone else's. This is why her eyes shine with such intensity when she first laid eyes on a shinjin. She created a reality where she's unique. All its inhabitants are not "normal" or human except for Kyon. Now as for why that kiss brought about the destruction of the created reality, it would again have somehting to do with her uniqueness.

First of all, I'm going to apologize ahead of time for being sappy. Now that that's out of the way, it's simply because Haruhi felt special by recieving Kyon's affection. Broadening the scope a little, Kyon was the only person (at the time, as we see later on, the school band ENOZ also treated her as an equal and not some random nutcase) to treat Haruhi as an equal and not a nutcase despite numerous warnings. In a way he's accepted Haruhi's oddities. So it's not that Haruhi liked Kyon since the first time she laid eyes on him, but she felt special by recieving the affection of someone who accepts her for who she is (for some reason I feel like that book from Chobits right now...)
Thus because of Kyon's kiss she felt a sense of uniqueness in the old boring world, and decided to give it another chance (reason why the dimension did not immediately collapse when they first kissed.)

So kiss or not, Haruhi would have won the day. She would have been unique in her world of "abnormalities" but she decided to give the old reality another shot because she felt that she had gained an identity by being "loved" (yes in quotes because a kiss does not equate to love) by someone who accepts her for who she is.

In Kyon's case, we've seen many times during the series where he shows a slight hint of compassion towards Haruhi. So forced or not, I'd think he'd at least enjoyed it despite his grimace.

Oh right the episode, 10/10 + a million more. A very fun ride and an excellent ending. Massive kudos to A.F.K. for their efforts in bringing us Haruhi

[C.A.]

Well, this question caused quite a few pages of discussion on the other forum I visit, I expect quite alot of different opinions lol

It originally start when someone says that the show will end normally like any other anime, with the male character forcing a kiss on the female character. I don't think this is a normal forced kiss.

[lana3007]

Well, that was a great ending to a great series. It was a good idea to leave this episode till the end. It painted everything that happened after it in a different light.

As for the whole kiss thing let's put it this way: we can all say for a fact that Haruhi likes Kyon. But if anyone was to ask her what she thinks about him she would call him an idiot. I doubt she even fully realized what made her so angry about Kyon's crash on Mikuru up until now. I get the feeling that Kyon's feelings for her are identical to that: his rational mind tells him she is an idiot and yet he still spends time with her. I think after this incident they both got more of an idea of how much the other one means to them, but they are both more likely to shoot themselves than admitting openly that they like each other.

[diopter]

I think people have to realize to not always take Kyon's speeches/monologues seriously, or at the very least, literally. It's like people saying "I don't want you to do this" but in reality they really do, but they just can't say it or admit it to themselves. I don't think he loved her per say, but he wasn't as disgusted as his monologues would suggest to some. We got to remember that sarcasm is big with Kyon. I think Kyon was more on the line of confused or indifferent rather than "eww noooo~~!"

Regarding to whether Haruhi wanted or liked the kiss, yea as people have pointed it out, the ponytail says it all. I really liked how the scene was executed. Kyon didn't specifically mention the ponytail because I don't think he can bring himself to say that out loud to Haruhi's face, he just simply said "looks good on you" with the focus on Haruhi's hair. That sealed the deal for me; KyoAni did an outstanding job.

Oh, and the Mikuru scene at the end was purely awesome. I read the novels so I knew what was going to happen, but man I cracked up laughing nonetheless. Her "Kyaaa~~!!" has more cute's than what I can handle.

[Orchunter226]

Originally Posted by lana3007

Well, that was a great ending to a great series. It was a good idea to leave this episode till the end. It painted everything that happened after it in a different light.

As for the whole kiss thing let's put it this way: we can all say for a fact that Haruhi likes Kyon. But if anyone was to ask her what she thinks about him she would call him an idiot. I doubt she even fully realized what made her so angry about Kyon's crash on Mikuru up until now. I get the feeling that Kyon's feelings for her are identical to that: his rational mind tells him she is an idiot and yet he still spends time with her. I think after this incident they both got more of an idea of how much the other one means to them, but they are both more likely to shoot themselves than admitting openly that they like each other.

Yea pretty much. They both can sense deep down they like each other, but don't want to admit it to themselves. I think that's why in the eps. after this you see them fighting, but holding hands in tight spots (cliff anyone) and playing the rain happily. The both are starting to come to terms with how they feel after this incident (even if Haruhi thinks it was a dream), and realize what they mean to each other.

[C.A.]

Actually we have to take everything he says serious, but at the same time know that he is always sarcastic, we just have to access his actual meanings. Its especially true for the novels, because everything shown and told in the novels are his observations.

[slayer]

very good episode.. I honestly didn't want the series to end right there but hell it teaches us that no matter how good anime is, our own lives are just as or more intresting so go out there and live your life.

[Wandering_Youth]

Wow, Haruhi looked so mental in this episode. She smiled, awed and welcomed armageddon as it came.

I'm sort of content with this anime because it was good from start to finish, however there are a number of questions that yet to be explained.

What's Kyon's real name, damnit?!
We never see Haruhi's parents! I really wanted to see what they were like.


Lastly, I did not like her ponytail.

[Seyluun]

Neither did she apparently, it lasted what, 4 hours?

[Orchunter226]

Originally Posted by Wandering_Youth

Lastly, I did not like her ponytail.

I thought it was smexy enough. But apprently, it turns Kyon on lol. Whatever floats ur boat I guess.

[ChainLegacy]

I agree, think she looks better with long hair :P. This episode was entertaining and enjoyable. I didn't laugh as much as in some others, but it was just a satisfying watch all around.

[The Sphinx]

It's true he noticed her hair before he noticed anything else about her.

It's also true that she cut her hair the same day he commented on it, heh.

[dkellis]

My interpretation is that Kyon still hasn't (at this point in time) decided how he feels about Haruhi. It's obvious, even in the chronologically later episodes, that he still instinctively sees her as a nuisance and annoying and excessively overbearing and whatnot. At least, that's his first gut reaction if someone were to suddenly ask him what he thinks of her.

But if he were more honest with himself and thought about it a bit more, he'll probably realize that he doesn't mind being around her. In fact, he kind of enjoys her company. Obviously, it's going to take a lot more than is plausible before he'll admit that even to himself, but he does start to care for her. It probably started way back when he started talking to her at the beginning of the series, and gradually built up, sometimes with fits and jumps (like when she talked to him about why she wanted to look for aliens etc).

So during this incident, he didn't precisely plan on kissing Haruhi, and in fact thinks that it's far too cliche and out of place, but it's not incredibly unpleasant for him to do so. Right then, all he wanted was for the old world to come back, and so he took the only reasonable option available to him. (The ponytail remark, I believe, was partly to reassure himself that whatever else Haruhi was, she was still a fairly attractive girl. Also, he might be implicitly apologizing for the kiss.)

So if you wanted to really boil it all down to general basics, Kyon forced a kiss on Haruhi because he wanted something else from it (other than Haruhi's affections), and Kyon was forced to kiss Haruhi due to the circumstances, which were caused (however unconsciously/involuntarily) by Haruhi and thus technically her "fault".

I got the feeling that it wasn't so much that Kyon didn't want to kiss Haruhi because the person he was kissing was Haruhi. Rather, it was more that he felt that this was not his optimal solution, being very cliche. (Not only does the guy (almost) always kiss the girl at the end of many romance anime, it happened in the two classical stories mentioned in SHnY itself: Snow White and Sleeping Beauty, and plenty of others.) Basically, Kyon was railing against the bad plot writers of his life.

Now for Haruhi's motivations, which I think were slightly simpler. Haruhi wanted to be entertained, to have an exciting life, to experience something out of the ordinary. In the views of the other factions (Mikuru and Yuki), this could possibly be seen (from a Kenobi-esque point of view) to be "under a spell". Obviously the organizations watching Haruhi wanted the old universe to remain (status quo for now), since their existence in the new one was not guaranteed. So both the time-travellers and the Data Entity gave hints to Kyon on how to "wake the princess up", in order to bring her back to the "real (old) world".

Anyway. Haruhi was perfectly happy to have the new world be the "real" one (with the typical blaze of optimism and lack of consideration for consequences), and so Kyon needed a reason for her to think that the old one wasn't so bad after all. This was best done by giving her something unexpected and not unpleasant; a kiss fit the bill nicely.

I don't think Haruhi planned this, consciously or unconsciously, to have Kyon kiss her. It just doesn't seem plausible that she would orchestrate this entire sequence of events for that specific goal. Does Haruhi like Kyon? I think that she does, in a "good friend" kind of way for now. (Or perhaps "good underling".) She might be attracted to him (for listening to her and going along with her crazy schemes and actually talking intelligently to her and willing to disagree), and I think that there's definitely a seed of love in there (more than Kyon has for her, anyway), but at this point in time, Kyon is basically the underling that she considers a close friend, one she could trust. A kiss? Entirely unexpected, but probably welcome.

So here, it boils down to Haruhi forcing Kyon to kiss her (in the sense of "give me something new and unexpected and surprising"), and Haruhi being forcefully kissed (in that it was, well, unexpected).

I don't think that either of them had love on their minds, but the kiss was certainly a boost in that direction, however small.

On a tangent, I think that the kiss convinced Haruhi that the old world was worth living in largely because of a sentiment that has been mentioned several times, here and in other anime: "I want these days to carry on forever." So if Haruhi went back to the old familiar world, maybe she'll learn the meaning of the kiss, and learn what Kyon thinks of her, rather than living a life with blue giants and excitement but not really getting the opportunity to think about stuff like that. (Still, it is equally plausible that Kyon's kiss simply shocked her too much that she instinctively wanted to go back to the Old Familiar Ways. That works too.)

Or I could be completely groping in the dark here. It all makes sense in my head, though.

[Major Kerina]

The novel has a little bit more to say with "oh come on! this result is so cliche!" than the anime but it's a fair trade off.

On the whole I feel it's like Kyon has the hots for Mikuru but Haruhi is his destiny.

I really want to see how things play out in volume 4 of the novel (when translated) where, so i've heard...

Spoiler:

Kyon has to own up to the fact he does have fun with Haruhi to restore her to the world