Character Discussion - Suzaku

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Oh, crap. The gg subs are bad for season 1? I guess this means every scene I ever saw was read wrong, especially the ones involving C.C.. This just makes things worse.

*Worries that he'll have to start answering requests for scene translations.*

[Dann of Thursday]

It would only be about 5 scenes, but I won't bother. Don't want to waste your time.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

It would only be about 5 scenes, but I won't bother. Don't want to waste your time.

Nah, I have time. Just PM them to me, it'll probably take only 5 minutes per scene.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

Believe the Korean subbers. Korean is almost completely interchangable with Japanese, which is one reason why we get most of our subs within 24 hours of broadcasting.

Heh, I can't understand Korean though. Well, I just went and had a listen myself and I did hear a 'kimi' at the start of that line so I guess I'll take your word for it.

Originally Posted by Lowell1025

Well, a "yuk" can mean many things

but "mere" planned patricide?

:P Iunno, feel free to clarify then. Moral outrage was just my guess for the most probable motivation for a negative response.

The thing is, planned patricide is precisely what Lelouch is planning to do as well, and really these kinds of characters are scattered all over literature without garnering automatic disapproval. All it takes for anybody to sympathise to some degree with Suzaku and his patricide is a healthy distrust of nationalism, at the very least. The sanctity of family, life, or children are pretty much biological constructs, really, and it isn't too hard for circumstances to break them.

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

I don't quite get how some people can support him since Taniguchi has been making it clear that he is not really the sort of person you should like.

As for your question on how people can support Suzaku, Dann, it's pretty simple in my case. My criteria for liking people is pretty much competence, maybe moreso individual competence, and from what I've seen in the show so far, Suzaku is just as, if not moreso, competent than Lelouch. Not quite sure where you're getting the 'should' from, either, as it seems like being Suzaku's friend would actually net you quite a few benefits, doesn't it?

[Dann of Thursday]

I meant that morally you shouldn't like the kind of person he is. I haven't seen him be more competent than Lelouch to be honest, but given you're a fan of Suzaku and I'm not means I'm probably to blind to see it.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

I meant that morally you shouldn't like the kind of person he is.

Which, as always, applies equally to Lelouch.

If I remember, wasn't the quote you're referring to more about how the director was saying that, despite his pleasant personality, that Suzaku had his own dark secrets and flaws? That has a different meaning than just "he's a bad person, never be like him."

I haven't seen him be more competent than Lelouch to be honest, but given you're a fan of Suzaku and I'm not means I'm probably to blind to see it.

Well, how many times has a cat or a single unexpected variable almost ruined Suzaku's grand plans in a comedic series of events?

Seriously though, Suzaku tends to be beaten by more reasonable reasons (such as enemy reinforcements/upgrades, C.C.'s interference, and so on), while Lelouch is often beaten by a single unexpected variable he doesn't over-plan for.

[Dann of Thursday]

Not really. In various interviews and such, he's made it clear that Lelouch is overall meant to be the hero kind of character though a more realistic one.

I guess I'm wrong though and everyone is right that Lelouch is just like Light and that Suzaku is the real hero of this story with the right idea in mind.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

I guess I'm wrong though and everyone is right that Lelouch is just like Light and that Suzaku is the real hero of this story with the right idea in mind.

Man, why must people always compare him to Light? Can't we come up with a different comparison for once?
How about comparing him to, say, Paul Atreides instead? Lots of similarities there too...

[kk2extreme]

I think suzaku is using nanaully as a replacement for euphie

[orangejuicetang]

I feel that it has more to do with their personal idealogies and beliefs. Lelouch thinks "This is how the world should be, how do I change it", while I feel that Suzuku thinks more like "This is how the world is right now, how do I best deal with it." Like in the case of Japan, Lelouch would basically the current system and make a whole new one, while Suzuku looks for something that would achieve his means, like becoming the Knight of One, and works toward achieving that means.

[Dann of Thursday]

And that automatically makes Suzaku the better person. I thought the Light comaprisons were BS too, but I guess they were more correct than I cared to acknowledge.

[Lowell1025]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

:P Iunno, feel free to clarify then. Moral outrage was just my guess for the most probable motivation for a negative response.

The thing is, planned patricide is precisely what Lelouch is planning to do as well, and really these kinds of characters are scattered all over literature without garnering automatic disapproval. All it takes for anybody to sympathise to some degree with Suzaku and his patricide is a healthy distrust of nationalism, at the very least. The sanctity of family, life, or children are pretty much biological constructs, really, and it isn't too hard for circumstances to break them.

well, that "yuk" have the followings:
1. I imagnined bashings Suzaku dislikers would dish out if it is proven he planned it all along
2. Reminded me of a case of parenticde I read on newspapers which I'd rather forget
3. suddenly remembered many things I need to do before 11AM tomorrow

If you want my personal opinion on the matter, I'm at a stage where I try to refrain myself from judging others. It's another person's life, and if you reflect back on yourself, you'd notice times when you lost control and made mistake also. As the saying goes, "A true gentlemen can forgive all mistakes but the ones made by himself." Although I don't give a dang about gentlemen, I do believe in the rest. Unless I can't think of another way, I'd like to keep opinions on these matters open / undiscussed, and just look after my own.

While I can understand a bit as to why Suzaku killed his father, I'm no Suzaku. Although I lost them now, I had a very close and caring family. My relation with my dad is completely different and inevitably, I am biased towards Suzaku's action. The point here is, my feelings towards Suzaku's case will inevitably be based somewhat on my experiences and my feelings (to what extent can vary), no matter how well or reasonable the case is presented or how hard I try to be objective. This feeling is not something you can easily win over/turn aside with arguments and facts. The same thing goes for other people too. If you are truely empathetic and can understand that, then perphaps you can communicate with others without ending up having one feeling going up against another ( I see a lot of argument on this board ended up like this), but come to understand each other's position better instead, and perhaps learn more about the aspects of the issue you are discussing - ultimately, end up with a better judgment on the issue.

[tenken627]

Actually morally, Suzaku is better than Lelouch when it comes to accepted ethical standards. Lelouch is the one putting innocent lives in harm's way.

Suzaku is just, really really weird in his thought patterns for lack of a better description. He says things that contradict each other. He acts in a certain way that contradicts with his words. He tries to justify his actions, but you're left going like "huh?" after you hear his rationalization. And he doesn't even notice it.

It's not that Suzaku is an evil person. It is very easily arguable that Lelouch is much more evil compared to Suzaku.

But, Suzaku is just a really poorly made character. It's just kinda like Suzaku has split personalities, where different sides of him are just not aware of the others.

Is he a character that is willing to do whatever it takes to get what he wants or is he a character that hates that line of thought? He shows both ends of the spectrum that are in direct conflict with each other.

Is he a character that feels violence is so wrong that he will use violence to support those who first commit and continue violence? wth?

I don't necessarily hate Suzaku himself, I just don't like how they made him. And I like antagonists. It feels like they just thought an antagonist child-hood friend on the Empire's side would make a really cool character, but they built his character up so randomly and illogically.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by tenken627

Suzaku is just, really really weird in his thought patterns for lack of a better description. He says things that contradict each other. He acts in a certain way that contradicts with his words. He tries to justify his actions, but you're left going like "huh?" after you hear his rationalization. And he doesn't even notice it.

Given that more than half of the people in this world are like Suzaku, I'm not even going to argue.

[Dann of Thursday]

I suppose they did the show wrong then and should have made Suzaku the protagonist since he is actually more of a hero than Lelouch.

[tenken627]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

Given that more than half of the people in this world are like Suzaku, I'm not even going to argue.

Really. Explain to me how?

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

I suppose they did the show wrong then and should have made Suzaku the protagonist since he is actually more of a hero than Lelouch.

But then the show would be the same old stuff you always see.

[Dann of Thursday]

Yeah, but there wouldn't be these stupid arguments and people trying to convince themselves that Lelouch is actually a good person and someone who should win.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Yeah, but there wouldn't be these stupid arguments and people trying to convince themselves that Lelouch is actually a good person and someone who should win.

Well I for one wouldn't want that to happen.

[Dann of Thursday]

Besides, given how many seem to think this way (though not all), they probably prefer it the regular way.