Tales of Zestiria (PS3/PS4/PC)

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Fizix

Are you seriously saying that I can't come into the thread and voice an opinion if I consider such a heavy backlash over this to sound dramatic or questionable?

Voicing an opinion by disregarding the arguments presented thus far and calling that reaction "dramatic and questionable" is hardly constructive.

I do understand what was said, I just disagree with the reasoning behind it and the type of reaction it's getting before a significant portion of people have played the game in their native language and we have enough English speaking commentators voicing opinions.

So you are considering opinions from people who understands Japanese as not legi because it isn't their native language?

Firstly, like I already said, if the whole game is being held up by Alisha and her not being a main character has ruined the game, then the game would have been crap anyway, with or without her.

You completely missed the point. The game major flaw is how it handled Alisha as a character (not even heroine for that matter). If you were to remove her completely, the game wouldn't have suffed from this backlash at all. Likewise, things woudln't be so complicated if there wasn't any DLC and if she wasn't designed as a Flynn 2.0.

So no, the game isn't crap "with or without her". It is plainly how they handled her (along with bugs and camera issues) that lead to such reaction. You are confusing people who hate the game for petty reasons along with other people who can't accept that marketing ploy.

I don't think Alisha would be the main talking point if that were the case. If it is the case and people are focusing on Alisha when the whole game is crap then I'd question why people are focusing on Alisha as thats a different problem.

I dunno for other people, but Zestiria case is infuriating because Namco just can't call quit when it comes to moneygrubbing tactic.
The fact the game is "fine" as it is doesn't mean people should be okay with their politics and how they brazenly did their shenanigans.

It does look to me, even reading from this thread, to be mostly about pre-release marketing not matching what people get in the game. Thats even being said in peoples replies and from what I'm reading here and elsewhere it is the loudest and most consistent thing by a huge margin.

Things went much worse because of the DLC. Whereas the initial reaction was at times unreasonable for "waifu reasons" with some people (mainly in gamefaq), things went much more grim when you realize the details about Alisha's departure and the frigging DLC.

[Galaxian]

One of the things I find very funny is that Zestiria has yet another Temporary Party Member, yet the exposure he got pre-launch is nothing compared to Alisha's, befitting of a temp.

[Sides]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Like seriously, I don't get why people are so mad when a character becomes unplayable. I mean, frigging Destiny, the second iteration of the series, has a character that never returns. And people still are getting butthurt because so and so character is not part of the main story? They never learn. :shrug:

Unlike other tales titles, you can still buy equipment for her through out the game. That was kind of confusing for me. In other Tales titles there was always another character that would fill in a departed character combat roll, in a sense. But here it is not the case.
Honestly at one point I though it would be like chrono trigger, as in reviving/reinviting the character to the party through side missions, but it was not the case. That DLC made it worst, imo. Buying and collecting equipment for a DLC character during the main game just looked dodgy.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Fizix

Are you seriously saying that I can't come into the thread and voice an opinion if I consider such a heavy backlash over this to sound dramatic or questionable?

When you don't understand what's going on, no. And no, you don't understand what's going on. You've repeatedly made that clear.

I do understand what was said, I just disagree with the reasoning behind it and the type of reaction it's getting before a significant portion of people have played the game in their native language and we have enough English speaking commentators voicing opinions.

So because we don't have NUMBERS, what we say is questionable and overdramatic?
And what about the JP players? I'm pretty sure Japanese is their native language. Or does their opinion not count because "otaku obsess" over things? It goes to show the belittling mindset you have.

But most importantly, have you actually played the game? Because an edit you made to one of your previous posts sounds like you haven't.

[Fizix]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Voicing an opinion by disregarding the arguments presented thus far and calling that reaction "dramatic and questionable" is hardly constructive.
So you are considering opinions from people who understands Japanese as not legi because it isn't their native language?

Firstly, drawing the drama into question on this particular game, I think is entirely reasonable, I notice you've disregarded my points on the way Alisha being handled being loaded with something thats clearly untrue (or likely enough to be crap that I think it can be discarded).


I'm not saying that players who can speak Japanese should be disregarded, I said its placing a lot of stock on a small minority of people who are capable of commentating reliably amongst a storm of stuff that is questionable or unrelated to the quality of the game itself. I've followed on GameFAQ's and there is so much stuff thats been pulled out as absolute garbage, brought into question or outright debated (although I've been careful to avoid spoilers) that its very difficult to take this problem all that seriously.

It does look like drama and people are allowed to come in and say that. It's not belittling, it's an opinion on a situation.

[Fizix]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

When you don't understand what's going on, no. And no, you don't understand what's going on. You've repeatedly made that clear.

So because we don't have NUMBERS, what we say is questionable and overdramatic?
And what about the JP players? I'm pretty sure Japanese is their native language. Or does their opinion not count because "otaku obsess" over things? It goes to show the belittling mindset you have.

But most importantly, have you actually played the game? Because an edit you made to one of your previous posts sounds like you haven't.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/74021...tiria/71098975

Just, this thread. Thats how I've mostly followed it.

And the BIB: Not belittling no, realistic. I'd be very careful about this specific thing because Otaku do obsess over character designs and stuff. I'm saying we have to be careful about how we take stock in the backlash from within Japans otaku community as it could easily be skewed.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Fizix

Firstly, drawing the drama into question on this particular game, I think is entirely reasonable, I notice you've disregarded my points on the way Alisha being handled being loaded with something thats clearly untrue (or likely enough to be crap that I think it can be discarded).

I don't believe it is reasonable when I see these posts of yours as follow:

Originally Posted by Fizix

I don't get why people are so upset by whether a character seen in the pre release art is a main or temporary character. Seems like a whole lot of drama to me. I'm more bothered about whether the characters that are playable throughout is good and the story is good.

Originally Posted by Fizix

As I understand it, it looks like people saw all the original promo pics, saw that she was an MC and it turned out she's a temporary character and another character is the MC and isn't such a clean cut personality or the one people assumed would be the MC. Right?

Originally Posted by Fizix

ETA: I'll admit, I don't know everything, just conversation here and one GameFAQ's and a few bits here and there because most people who peddle stuff can't read Japanese so it's very hard to decipher rumours/fan drama from fact and I don't like to spoil games for myself.

You are trivializing the issue with the problem at its surface without even considering the other arguments brought to the table as in: reason for departure, "bloopers" (Dragon fight + equipments), Marketing (goods, hi ougi as pre-order bonus, figurine, etc), DLC.
This is a much more complex issue than simply the trivialized "waifu" issue some people thinks it is funny and legit to call it.

The simple fact you refer to GameFAQ itself is already enough to makes me think you aren't considering people's opinions here for what they are, but just people "parroting" what was said in GF despite it isn't.
That's also why i mentioned that board when it comes to people who makes unreasonable criticism (like what happened with that infamous tumblr page).

I'm not saying that players who can speak Japanese should be disregarded, I said its placing a lot of stock on a small minority of people who are capable of commentating reliably amongst a storm of stuff that is questionable or unrelated to the quality of the game itself. I've followed on GameFAQ's and there is so much stuff thats been pulled out as absolute garbage, brought into question or outright debated (although I've been careful to avoid spoilers) that its very difficult to take this problem all that seriously.

If you considered our arguments from the beginning, you would have realized that most of us completely disregarded such kind of weak arguments. The other ones, as I mentioned, stand and it is the main reason why the game shouldn't be released in the west like how it did in Japan.
Simply "yeah I understand" doesn't cut it at all. With all due respect, you just showed up here by trivializing the problem and disregarding the points discussed for ages already. If it wasn't your intention, then please reconsider the points discussed instead of alienating people opinions with others that aren't theirs.

It does look like drama and people are allowed to come in and say that. It's not belittling, it's an opinion on a situation.

There we go again "it does look like drama for *reasons*". If it was all unreasonable, we would have counter arguments strong enough that would quell the miscontent attitude here. However, it isn't the case, and I think arguments were thoroughly presented already.

Hence why your comment is hardly favorable for a discussion if you came here as if "lol, a drama. yeah" as if we were in GF.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Fizix

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/74021...tiria/71098975

Just, this thread. Thats how I've mostly followed it.

So you're trying to belittle us by claiming we're up in arms about questionable secondhand information, when you're literally relying entirely on secondhand information yourself. To people like me and others here who have actually played the game. Double standard, much?

You have not played the game. You don't know the events. You don't know how the characters are handeled. You don't know how they handled Alisha's removal from the story. Sooooo, what ground are you standing on?
I'll answer that for you: none. You've been trying to tread on water, and you got wet a while ago. You're basing everything you're saying largely on a thread on a forum known for being emotional, not just the "ragers," but the ones against them as well. While having no direct knowledge on the matter at all.

I'm not even going to go into length on your belittling (yes, belittling) of the JP players. Yes otaku can be crazy, but you're trying to simply dismiss all of them by lumping them all into one "they're obsessed" generalization.

[Fizix]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I don't believe it is reasonable when I see these posts of yours as follow:

You are trivializing the issue with the problem at its surface without even considering the other arguments brought to the table as in: reason for departure, "bloopers" (Dragon fight + equipments), Marketing (goods, hi ougi as pre-order bonus, figurine, etc), DLC.
This is a much more complex issue than simply the trivialized "waifu" issue some people thinks it is funny and legit to call it.

The simple fact you refer to GameFAQ itself is already enough to makes me think you aren't considering people's opinions here for what they are, but just people "parroting" what was said in GF despite it isn't.
That's also why i mentioned that board when it comes to people who makes unreasonable criticism (like what happened with that infamous tumblr page).
If you considered our arguments from the beginning, you would have realized that most of us completely disregarded such kind of weak arguments. The other ones, as I mentioned, stand and it is the main reason why the game shouldn't be released in the west like how it did in Japan.
Simply "yeah I understand" doesn't cut it at all. With all due respect, you just showed up here by trivializing the problem and disregarding the points discussed for ages already. If it wasn't your intention, then please reconsider the points discussed instead of alienating people opinions with others that aren't theirs.
There we go again "it does look like drama for *reasons*". If it was all unreasonable, we would have counter arguments strong enough that would quell the miscontent attitude here. However, it isn't the case, and I think arguments were thoroughly presented already.

Hence why your comment is hardly favorable for a discussion if you came here as if "lol, a drama. yeah" as if we were in GF.

Right, the reasons I gave for saying that is looks to me like a lot of drama off the back of the marketing thing and people being upset because a character they latched onto isn't playable long term are the loudest reasons across the net.

The reasonings that she has been handled badly aren't that loud and usually come with that stupid conspiracy either attached or nearby. That has to be taken into consideration.

I wasn't going "lol drama" either.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Fizix

Right, the reasons I gave for saying that is looks to me like a lot of drama off the back of the marketing thing and people being upset because a character they latched onto isn't playable long term are the loudest reasons across the net.

And this is exactly because you didn't consider everyone's opinions and just used the initial "bandwagon" as the rationale behind people dissatisfaction. It isn't the case, and it would be quite considerate if you get over that.

The reasonings that she has been handled badly aren't that loud and usually come with that stupid conspiracy either attached or nearby. That has to be taken into consideration.

Except Serenade_beta who jokingly mentioned that conspiracy, pray tell who else did it here?

I wasn't going "lol drama" either.

Then don't alienate our opinion with something that we didn't even stated. Just by painting it as drama and repeating the weak arguments from somewhere else really makes me think you don't consider our arguments seriously at all.
Hell, you didn't even address them either.

[Ultragunner]

Originally Posted by Fizix

Right, the reasons I gave for saying that is looks to me like a lot of drama off the back of the marketing thing and people being upset because a character they latched onto isn't playable long term are the loudest reasons across the net.

The reasonings that she has been handled badly aren't that loud and usually come with that stupid conspiracy either attached or nearby. That has to be taken into consideration.

I wasn't going "lol drama" either.

well, yeah, haha you should have known by now that the vast majority of the internet are TERRIBLE (and I mean it, to the point of just hilariously abominable) with writing words, they don't even know how they are upset or how to express it correctly

but thankfully, most of the folks around here aren't like that

I have more reason to look forward to the game now, to see how they handle the DLC cr*p

[Fizix]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

So you're trying to belittle us by claiming we're up in arms about questionable secondhand information, when you're literally relying entirely on seconhand information yourself. To people like me and others here who have actually played the game. Double standard, much?

You have not played the game. You don't know the events. You don't know how the characters are handeled. You don't know who they handled Alisha's removal from the story. Sooooo, what ground are you standing on?
I'll answer that for you: none. You've been trying to tread on water, and you got wet a while ago. You're basing everything you're saying largely on a thread on a forum known for being emotional, not just the "ragers," but the ones against them as well. While having no direct knowledge on the matter at all.

I'm not even going to go into length on your belittling (yes, belittling) of the JP players. Yes otaku can be crazy, but you're trying to simply dismiss all of them by lumping them all into one "they're obsessed" generalization.

LOL, seriously, you know what... can I just make something clear here, I'm just going to rephrase my whole stance as this debate has turned into something really stupid and it's getting annoying.

I don't get why people are so upset by whether a character seen in the pre release art is a main or temporary character. Seems like a whole lot of drama to me. I'm more bothered about whether the characters that are playable throughout is good and the story is good.

That's not belittling you, it's an opinion. My post reads that I don't understand the reaction of people who are upset about Alisha being implied as an MC in the marketing when she isn't an MC and then going on to condemn the game as crap because of it.

That is a thing people all over the internet are doing, there are examples of it in this thread and elsewhere. It clearly doesn't include criticism of the characters/plot as that would be a different criticism. I even said, people should judge the game on the quality of what we do get, not who the MC is, I made several posts highlighting that.

You called me an idiot who doesn't understand and can't read (yet you're amongst the people who extended my statement to include almost all criticism of the game when it clearly doesnt - go figure eh?). Anyway, you're in no position to lecture people about being belittling or telling people to learn how to read.


As for how Alisha is handled, I said that all I have to go on with that is internet hearsay, a load of which is loaded with that stupid rumour. When the game exists only in Japanese and reactions are in Japanese, we have a lot of internet hearsay with very little to back it up, a stupid rumour, no way of knowing whether people are competant, honest and impartial (something you've done a really poor job of demonstrating, by the way) and therefore it makes it really difficult to decipher what is a real criticism or not. You even seem to find that insulting and I really don't know why.

I have no idea why we are even discussing that or why we got there to be honest. I know I'm party to it going down that route though, even if I'm not sure why it happened.


My comment about being careful about loud Otaku responses is valid and is in no way belittling towards anybody. I simply said that Otaku can have a tendency to idolise/obsess over characters, much more than we do - thats just part of Otaku culture.

Therefore they are likely to react to her not being an MC much harsher than western audiences might. I don't think thats unreasonable and it certainly isnt prejudiced or belittling. Its a real possibility and I never mentioned anything about bloody waifu's.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Fizix

people should judge the game on the quality of what we do get, not who the MC is, I made several posts highlighting that.

Originally Posted by Fizix

Therefore they are likely to react to her not being an MC much harsher than western audiences might.

Why do you keep acting like "not being MC" and "being unceremoniously removed from the game" are the same?

I (and many others) couldn't care less if she were hyped up to be the MC and then were given a Judith or Pascal role. It'd be a bit annoying, sure, but that's not the case. She wasn't even given a Flynn or Richard role! She's completely removed when all evidence points to that not being the original intent.

[Fizix]

Originally Posted by GDB

Why do you keep acting like "not being MC" and "being unceremoniously removed from the game" are the same?

I (and many others) couldn't care less if she were hyped up to be the MC and then were given a Judith or Pascal role. It'd be a bit annoying, sure, but that's not the case. She wasn't even given a Flynn or Richard role! She's completely removed when all evidence points to that not being the original intent.

People are upset that that though. Obviously my original post wasn't aimed at you if you don't care about that. So I'm not sure... never mind, this is stupid.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Fizix

People are upset that that though. Obviously my original post wasn't aimed at you if you don't care about that. So I'm not sure... never mind, this is stupid.

You just barged in the discussion with:

I don't get why people are so upset by whether a character seen in the pre release art is a main or temporary character. Seems like a whole lot of drama to me.

while we had a very specific position with the subject at hand. Of course your statement plainly imply we are pidgeonholed with people you have in mind, and your subsequent replies don't help in that matter.

Again, don't alienate people opinions just because you have seen others giving unreasonable arguments elsewhere.

Likewise, overgeneralizing the "otaku response" to that fiasco is dubious at best. If you had your facts straights, the vast majority of the discontent fanbase was pissed off by the DLC and other stuff involving that.
I'm not saying there isn't anyone who didn't go unreasonable just because a "character was demoted", but you aren't making any sound argument by making such generalization whatsoever.

[Fizix]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

You just barged in the discussion with:
while we had a very specific position with the subject at hand. Of course your statement plainly imply we are pidgeonholed with people you have in mind, and your subsequent replies don't help in that matter.

No it doesn't imply that someone who speaks Japanese and was disatisfied with the game is being dramatic. Not sure why on earth you would extent it to mean all of you. It means what it says and its directed at who its explicitly directed at. Don't put words into my mouth and throw shit back at me, seriously. That's just being childish.

Again, don't alienate people opinions just because you have seen others giving unreasonable arguments elsewhere.

My criticism of the drama has been squarely directed at specific people and I've highlighted the danger of people who haven't played the game peddling stuff that they cannot verify and seperate from bandwagoning (which is happening a lot, heck look at the stupid rumour), along with picking up on reception from a specific sub culture in Japan who may be more affected by the marketing thing than westerners would typically be.

Marketing towards otaku is partly built around merchandising and selling characters directly to them because they rally behind certain characters. That doesn't translate to us in the same way so I'm cautious of using that exclusively as validation that the game is botched from our perspective.

If you choose to turn that into an insult towards Japanese people, bringing Waifu and lol otaku into it then I have to question why you feel the need to do so .

Likewise, overgeneralizing the "otaku response" to that fiasco is dubious at best. If you had your facts straights, the vast majority of the discontent fanbase was pissed off by the DLC and other stuff involving that.
I'm not saying there isn't anyone who didn't go unreasonable just because a "character was demoted", but you aren't making any sound argument by making such generalization whatsoever.

The criticism started before the DLC, which appeared to add fuel to the fire more than anything didn't it? Anyway, I wasn't talking about people being upset about the DLC, I didn't bring that up anywhere in my posts.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Fizix

That's not belittling you, it's an opinion. My post reads that I don't understand the reaction of people who are upset about Alisha being implied as an MC in the marketing when she isn't an MC and then going on to condemn the game as crap because of it

You opened up with a "seems like a whole lot of drama" statement which is nothing but belittling. You read one thread on a forum known for having over-emotional people on both sides of any debate. You haven't even played the game, yet you insist on telling us that it's all over-drama.

That is a thing people all over the internet are doing, there are examples of it in this thread and elsewhere. It clearly doesn't include criticism of the characters/plot as that would be a different criticism. I even said, people should judge the game on the quality of what we do get, not who the MC is, I made several posts highlighting that.

That means in no way that the criticsm of the game and Bamco's handling of Alisha are "drama." You've read one thread, seen similar pieces in various places, and just written it all off. All when you don't have any real idea what you're talking about.

You called me an idiot who doesn't understand and can't read (yet you're amongst the people who extended my statement to include almost all criticism of the game when it clearly doesnt - go figure eh?). Anyway, you're in no position to lecture people about being belittling or telling people to learn how to read.

"Idiot?" I said you've messed up and I pointed out how you're trying to debate about a game you haven't even played, but I didn't call you an "idiot" nor did I tell you to "learn how to read." I called you out on not reading what we've been telling you, which you've constantly and consistently shown you haven't. Don't put insults in my mouth.
Now you're just putting words in my mouth altogether. I never said this or that about the extension of your statement; I said you're not getting that the rage over Alicia is about more than just pre-release art.

As for how Alisha is handled, I said that all I have to go on with that is internet hearsay, a load of which is loaded with that stupid rumour. When the game exists only in Japanese and reactions are in Japanese, we have a lot of internet hearsay with very little to back it up, a stupid rumour, no way of knowing whether people are competant, honest and impartial (something you've done a really poor job of demonstrating, by the way) and therefore it makes it really difficult to decipher what is a real criticism or not. You even seem to find that insulting and I really don't know why.

*facepalm* I find it insulting because we, here, played the game, and we're telling you how bad it was, yet you constantly go on and on about hearsay and rumor. We played the game and we know how Alisha was handled in it.

My comment about being careful about loud Otaku responses is valid and is in no way belittling towards anybody. I simply said that Otaku can have a tendency to idolise/obsess over characters, much more than we do - thats just part of Otaku culture.

It's belittling because you're generalizing the entire otake fanbase and trying to invalide their negative response by saying they're all obsessed. There are crazy otaku, but that doesn't make all of what they say wrong or overdramatic.

Therefore they are likely to react to her not being an MC much harsher than western audiences might. I don't think thats unreasonable and it certainly isnt prejudiced or belittling. Its a real possibility and I never mentioned anything about bloody waifu's.

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd realize that the rage over the Alisha DLC was incredibly valid: After taking her out of the game in poor taste and scummy marketing by continuing to post articles about her being the heroine, poorly handling her removal from the story in the game, then trying to get rid of the evidence that they ever said she was the heroine, Bamco basically told the players "if you want more Alisha, pay us."

[Fizix]

You really have got a massive chip on your shoulder.

Sorry, but what this boils down to is that you read my post, jumped the gun and started snarking off and can't let go. You've done everything I pointed out in my post, hell I even tried to laugh it off and you couldn't let go and had to carry the sniping at me on.

I've read this thread, gamefaqs and pleanty of others while I've been keeping up with the game. Some people have legitimate complaints, sure. But there is a hell of a lot of bandwagoning and lots if people who are doing exactly as I stated.

As for the otaku thing, seriously, what I said is completely reasonable. YOU are turning it into some kind of insult towards them and claiming I'm invalidating their complaints. Please read my posts again, I did nothing of the sort. I simply highlighted that their complaints may not directly apply to us. That doesn't mean all otaku, but enough of a proportion of otaku could be particularly annoyed at being misled - due to their sub culture.

To deny that you have to ignore a significant portion of what that culture is about and how its marketed towards. Its perfectly relevant to this particular audience reaction and you're the one warping it into an insult.


And what are you going on about the DLC for? I've not even brought that up. The most I said about that was that the reaction in Japan started before the DLC was announced, I never said anything more on it.

You're just clutching at anything you can as opposed to what I've actually said. Taking a statement at one or two specific things and drafting other stuff that I wasn't even talking about into it in order to bolster your argument doesn't make it more valid.

It just makes it waffle.

Anyway, I think I'm done. My comment shouldn't have lead to this, its pathetic. I was being completely reasonable and its starting to hack me off now.

[serenade_beta]

It's overly long and I think the other posters have already replied on what needs to be replied, but to make some points:

-The most well-known cause of the disaster is Alisha
-Aside from the "Alisha being a heroine and suddenly is removed" thing, people spent real money to buy her hi-ougi (or something of that type) which could no longer be used when she became unplayable permanently

-Aside from that, the story itself is not considered good. Sudden plot changes, foreshadowing that never really became anything, everyone praising Rose, what is pretty much bullying of Alisha (boy did the DLC help), the camera in battle, getting stuck in the terrain in battle, etc.

But you know, if it stopped here, it would have just been another bad game.


What poured fuel on the fire was EVERYTHING BandaiNamco did (or did not) do in the aftermath.
And boy, EVERYTHING. Nothing, NOTHING they did poured water. Oil, oil, and oil.

And if BandaiNamco did not think they did anything wrong, then... fine, right? But they know they did something wrong, in which they incriminate themselves by being sneaky. Forcing sites to remove evidence, the producer hiding, patches unannounced, the producer seemingly defending himself under an anonymous name.

Well, then what happens when you buy the hatred of oh-so-many people? They use their free time to find other bad stuff about you.
In which then they discovered various hints to Baba's infatuation with a voice actor, which caused Rose to be forcibly switched into the heroine position, thus causing various plots in the story to go haywire.
Which could all be a coincidence, sure.

And you could call this BS, or insignificant, but consumer relations is... probably important to companies that sell products.
And when the Amazon reviews is incredibly slanted towards 1, when defending Zestiria is considered an act of hate towards the series (2ch), when criticizing the game is correct (2ch), when the official feedback board for the series becomes as lawless as 2ch, when a couple of manga-ka actually referring to the incident in their comments box (or just using it as story material for a 4-koma),
I mean, just, wow.
You don't even have to experience it first-hand to simply be astonished by what has happened. Consumers? Nah. BandaiNamco doesn't give a crap about you. If it wasn't hinted enough before (*cough* Jojo *cough*), it was made clearer than day this time. That is one of the main sources of anguish in this whole thing.

[Ultragunner]

*sign*, how did they discover the Baba's controversy? This really left a long-lasting bad taste in the fanbase

@Fizix: just one thing, perhaps the we, non-japanese speakers, do nott have or do not understand the context over there (japan), what may seem reasonable or silly to you may not apply to others, especially when we haven't played the game yet while some of the members around here already have played it
I know this sounds cliché and sh*t, but yeah :he: