Madoka Magica - Episodes 11 & 12 Discussion/Poll - Final Episodes!

[Midonin]

Spoiler for Madoka Magica 11 - Don't be long:

So that ruined city seen in the first episode was... the actual city. Damn. Good for Homura to come forward with her feelings. Keeping something like that bottled inside can't do anyone any good. While I'm not big on guns, throwing a tanker truck into Walpurgis was pretty nifty. And if Kyubey is supposed to be the monoliths from 2001, then frankly, I'd take the black boxes. They're less likely to get people to murder each other. Of course, these comments on episode 11 will be but a drop in the pond, because up next...

Spoiler for Madoka Magica 12 - My wish My love:

Gen, you compared yourself to the Heartcatch finale. In a way, that's not far off. A magical girl, clad in pink, taking on the power of the world in her hands, shoots at the final enemy to save the world from despair. There are notable differences, of course. Tsubomi lived afterward, but in both cases, the fight does continue. Futaba becomes a Precure herself, so the fight never really ends. The Earth is always a target for monsters on a weekly basis. That can't be changed. But as long as there are people to fight it, the Earth stands a chance. Humanity stands a chance. I'd say more, but all of that is composed in an essay I penned back after episode 10, and it's still relevant now. (If it wasn't, I'd revise it.)

To compare to Futaba, Tatsuya, your future looks bright. Anything goes.

My spirit evolves, and the future I wished for calls out!

Really, though, the Incubators need to find a method to save the universe (if that is the truth) that doesn't involve killing people, you sadistic bastards.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Dawnbringerz

That was pretty epic.
I'm glad I bought a new TV just to watch Madoka.

Spoiler for The Monk:

The monks are probably curse -- the same thing that created witches in the old world. Even without Witches curse still exist.

The wings are not explained anywhere, but I guess it's just a form of Homura's ability. (space/time related attack or something)

Spoiler for monk:

This was posted on 4chan,take it for what it's worth:
"The white things are Bestia Magi. They are born from the general grief and 'curses' of the world, rather than being singular entities made specifically from magical girls. They exist because Madoka only wished to remove the problem of witches - she couldn't get rid of all grief ever, and as a compromise they work pretty well. QB can still stave off the heat death"

[hyperborealis]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Given how so many people are expecting a "soul-crushing", "emotionally scarring" ending, I'll be amused if we get a Morning Rescue end.

That being said, almost all ends that I can conceive of would be ones that I would be happy with. Of course, you never know what Gen might pull out. The Kyubey is an alien/entropy reveal of Episode 9, for example, came as a complete surprise to me.

It will be great to finally know how this anime ends. Definitely looking forward to it!

I will echo Solace and hyperborealis' statements on how fun it's been to talk about this anime. It's spurred on some of the best anime-based discussions that I've ever seen or been a part of. I want to thank everyone here for contributing to that intellectually stimulating and enjoyable time.

I love your new avatar. We will soon all be wearing Urobuchi's smile. Or grimace...

[Ginrai]

Originally Posted by wry bread

I cried. This rarely happens. THAT WAS AN EPIC ENDING.

So wait, lemme get this straight:

Spoiler for episode 12:

Madoka wishes to erase all witches from existence. Said wish is so insane that while it comes true it means that she can no longer exist in the universe.
All puella magi throughout time are saved => all the grief and whatever taken in by Madoka => Madoka goes witch => Goddess!Madoka kills witch!Madoka (wait what?)
Scene with Mami and Kyouko was in her head.
Sayaka is the only one not saved because otherwise Kamijo would still be handicapped (WTF don't save the jerk) Sayaka accepts this because she wants him (and Hitomi) to be happy.
Homura and Tatsuya are the only ones to remember Madoka in the reset world.
New puella magi system is that they don't become witches when they run out of magical power, but simply disappear.

That's what I figured from limited Japanese, but what I still didn't quite understand:

WHAT WERE THOSE GIANT WHITE MONK THINGS?
AND WHY DID HOMURA HAVE WINGS?

Spoiler:

How did Sayaka convince Madoka to let her stay dead just so Kamijo's hand would be healed?

Since it sounds like the system is still in place Sayaka could have still healed him and now just not have turned into a witch.

[zeniselv]

i quess theres likely a series or movie of homura✩magica in the future.

[tsunade666]

facepalm episode. I was wtf while watching

Spoiler for 11:

Nothing much to say aside from confrontation of Madoka and Kyubei. Kyubei revealed the previews MG's like Joan of Arc, Cleopatra and I don't know about japanese history so I don't know who is that girl that gets burned in the castle but maybe amaterasu or something. Aside that more broken Madoka talks with Homura. Homura confess to Madoka what she is and who she is. She hugs Madoka and after that the confrontation of the laughing bitch walprugis. This witch is wrecking city because it appear in this dimension and no barrier at all. Homura prepared a battle field with grenade launcher, bunker and mines and even oil tanker. But it doesn't flinch the bitch. I think if Homura really wants to beat it. She should shower it with nuke but that will really destroy the city because they are fighting in it. Despair come forth because it's one sided. Back to Madoka and her family. She excuse herself but her mother realize something. Mother daughter confrontation and there last meeting. Sad goodbye. Homura's magic is at limit and it won't work anymore. Then Madoka finally appears. Really touching part after the epic barrage by Homura

Spoiler for 12:

this ... I don't get it. I was WTF! here the whole first half. Madoka become god that's all their is too it. But her wish had loopholes into but she manage to free the contracts of the magical girl but more like she killed all of the current alive magical girls. She takes away all the grief with her. The MG's wouldn't turn into witch just disappear. And Madoka's soul gem become tainted with it but not just because of bitch walprugis because of what she did. She died turn into witch. Homura turns into spectator. Witch madoka trying to destroyed the world but god madoka destroys the witch madoka. The universe is rewrite with no witch. Madoka was removed from History. Sayaka is still dead because Kamijo wouldn't be healed. I said before that there shouldn't be a guy in this story and I still believe because if their isn't sayaka did get at least not dead ending. But oh well. (I did get a neg rep from that one) Naked Homu and naked Madoka talks in the sealed time and space. With Madoka literally stays with Homura all the time. Homura, Mami and Kyoko are all together minus Madoka. Homura gets the ribbons of Madoka. The brother of Madoka remembers her but the mother..... really sad part that no ones remember her aside Homura and the little brother. QB still goes traveling turning girls into MG but no witch after effect. And with no witch other enemies shows up. Homura turns like an immortal being with Madoka's power bestowed upon her. The wings of Homura screams of accelerator. Now if she also uses that as a weapon she really looks like Accel. Well Winged Homura with ubber bows lives forever hunting those white being

good ending but not happy ending.

[Mentar]

Oh, and once more: This show's soundtrack is a masterpiece. Time and time again Kajiura Yuki uncorked yet another big new piece. Extremely few repetitions. I remember how I was gaping at the Homura-Walpurgis fight, only to wish to have the OST in my hands.

Wonderful, wonderful work. Epic.

[bigdeath]

An anime whos ending lives up too all the hype.

SHOCKING!!!!!!

I'll comment on the ending after I read the subs but I really want the OST for this show.

[Azrail]

Tried to understand the raw but I think I failed pretty hard when it came to some of the specifics. Either way I'm going to wait for subs before I settle on an actual rating for these episodes.

Also something I came across on the PMMM wiki:

Spoiler for Episode 12:

http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Character_Appearance#Episode_12 Not sure if it's credible or not but apparently the white monk things are Moirae?

[Kaijo]

Heh, I kept saying all along that a wish could fix everything. Kept getting people poo'poo'ing the idea, though. Which means, all of this could have been solved in episode 2... if the girls had acted smarter. Hell, if the Kyube's had been smarter. A plot that could truly only work and be stretched into 12 episodes if the characters were dumb as bricks.

I remember back arguing that Madoka's world-changing power was a very high possibly for doing the ending. Good thing we have God on our side to fix everything! Like I said, a wish and Madoka's power were all we needed.

Will wait for subs for further commentary.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Heh, I kept saying all along that a wish could fix everything.

...and create new problems,this doesn't come close to fixing everything even if it improves things,it's far from a "everyone lived happily ever after ending" .

But anyway,she didn't have enough knowledge about the system in episode 2 to wish for that.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by totoum

...and create new problems,this doesn't come close to fixing everything even if it improves things,it's far from a "everyone lived happily ever after ending" .

Sounds like it is a hell of lot better than it was.

But anyway,she didn't have enough knowledge about the system in episode 2 to wish for that.

That's entirely the point: she could have asked. That was a complaint from the beginning, in that she was entirely passive throughout the entire thing. I do give her props for contracting, though, which is what I expected (and hoped) for. She paid the cost she needed to. And didn't somehow get her powers another way, heh.

[digited]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

all of this could have been solved in episode 2... if the girls had acted smarter. Hell, if the Kyube's had been smarter.

No. Madoka didn't have the required knowledge and, more importantly, emotional power.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Heh, I kept saying all along that a wish could fix everything. Kept getting people poo'poo'ing the idea, though. Which means, all of this could have been solved in episode 2... if the girls had acted smarter.

I suspect you haven't understood the intrinsics of Madoka's solution at all. It's not like Madoka wished to become god to fix everything. Her wish with which she managed to unravel the meatgrinder was very delicately formulated, and the necessary knowledge to choose this way came very very late in the show. Her becoming a kind of "god" was a mere side-effect, not the point of her wish. I'm not even sure whether or not you understood that by doing what she did, Madoka perished. Had Madoka not been very reluctant to commit (and waste her wish on stuff like "revive Mami"), she would have failed.

Please wait for the subbed version, you might see the ending in a different light.

[Dawnbringerz]

Originally Posted by totoum

Spoiler for monk:

This was posted on 4chan,take it for what it's worth:
"The white things are Bestia Magi. They are born from the general grief and 'curses' of the world, rather than being singular entities made specifically from magical girls. They exist because Madoka only wished to remove the problem of witches - she couldn't get rid of all grief ever, and as a compromise they work pretty well. QB can still stave off the heat death"

Thanks, that explanation is pretty easy to understand.
My English sucks. ;__;

Spoiler for Madoka's Wish & New World's System:

So basically Madoka's wish is
QB:君は何を願う？
What's your wish?
Madoka:私、全ての魔女を生まれる前に消し去りたい。全ての宇宙過去と未来の全ての魔女を、この手で
I want to get rid of all witches before they were born -- all witches in the universe from the past to the future, with this hand.

Effect:
Madoka takes in the grief of all Magical Girls, and her soul gem turns into the biggest grief seed that has the potential to destroy the universe. However, the wish is still in effect, and she got eliminated by herself This creates a time paradox and her existence is removed from the universe except from Homura's and her little brother Tatsuya's memory.


System change (excerpted from 2ch):
old: Magical Girl → despair → turns into Witch
new: Magical Girl → MP runs out → disappear
With this new system witchs are never to be born again. Instead the new world has Magical Beast (魔獣 majuu) that are born from curse that still exists in this world.

Dark cores that are obtained by defeating Magical Beasts can replenish Soul gem, just like the old system's grief seeds.

Spoiler for Dark Core haeling Soul Gem:

However, in the case of Sayaka, she used too much power to ensure that Kamijou's concert doesn't get interrupted to the point that her Soul gem expired, so she disappeared.

As long as Magical Girls are careful in managing their energy supply, there won't be any problem.

With such near-flawless system, this is probably the best ending this show could get.

[zeniselv]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Heh, I kept saying all along that a wish could fix everything. Kept getting people poo'poo'ing the idea, though. Which means, all of this could have been solved in episode 2... if the girls had acted smarter. Hell, if the Kyube's had been smarter. A plot that could truly only work and be stretched into 12 episodes if the characters were dumb as bricks.

at first the girls didnt know about the repercussions of becoming puella magi, its in episode 3 thay find out the danger of beign one and at ep 7 what the whole "scam" is, also it took time for madoka to consider to make such a selfless wish, so i dont think the character were dumb, after all madoka was the only one who became a MG after knowing how the MG system worked.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

That's entirely the point: she could have asked. That was a complaint from the beginning, in that she was entirely passive throughout the entire thing. I do give her props for contracting, though, which is what I expected (and hoped) for. She paid the cost she needed to. And didn't somehow get her powers another way, heh.

Spoiler for madoka's wish:

How,in episode 2,is she suppose to wish for magical girls to not turn into witches when she doesn't know that they do?
And no,Homura isn't going to tell her,she doesn't want Madoka to sacrifice herself for others.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Mentar

I suspect you haven't understood the intrinsics of Madoka's solution at all. It's not like Madoka wished to become god to fix everything. Her wish with which she managed to unravel the meatgrinder was very delicately formulated, and the necessary knowledge to choose this way came very very late in the show. Her becoming a kind of "god" was a mere side-effect, not the point of her wish. I'm not even sure whether or not you understood that by doing what she did, Madoka perished. Had Madoka not been very reluctant to commit (and waste her wish on stuff like "revive Mami"), she would have failed.

Please wait for the subbed version, you might see the ending in a different light.

You're missing the point. I posted several times, wondering why she didn't ask, why no one asked, "Why don't we just wish all witches away?" I dunno about everyone else, but that was the first thing that came to my mind.

It was meant to be a simple question, a starting point to finding out all the intricacies of the system, then thinking about how one could fix/change it.

And whatdoyaknow, that's exactly what happened. We know now why no limits were ever put on the wish system... because a wish was used for the solution. Which means, yes, all of this could have been solved in episode 2.

Edit: And sounds like a Mai Hime ending, heh. There were those who didn't like that kind of ending, so I wonder how they feel about this? It also sounds like it is turning into a more standard MG world, so it's not so much a deconstruction, as a simple creation of yet-another-MG-series.

[hyperborealis]

Will-power required NOT to watch the raws rising past Homura to Madoka levels...This is maddening...Get the bloody subs out already!!!

[xizro345]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Edit: And sounds like a Mai Hime ending, heh. There were those who didn't like that kind of ending, so I wonder how they feel about this? It also sounds like it is turning into a more standard MG world, so it's not so much a deconstruction, as a simple creation of yet-another-MG-series.

And...THat would be bad? I always watched Madoka just because I think it was good, deconstruction is totally irrelevant in my book. And the ending seems decent enough as well.