Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (take 3)

[youngde]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

Spoiler for for length:

my take on this
in the preview we see
a)kallen on the avalon ready to kill lulu
b)the lancelot in the sky shooting
c)lulu and C.C talking in the avalon's hanger
d)lelouch sitting on a chair while looking pissed off
e)a huge friya blast taking out many of lulu's units on rader

we also know that suzaku and kallen would fight this ep since the summeries say so
and we know that nina is working on a friya related thing
since she mentioned a limiter in ep 23 im guessing its a device meant to prevent friya bombs from reaching critical mass and exploding

here is my spec of things that happen

the device nina is building is meant to be instelled on the shinkiro to allow lulu to lead his troops against the democles while preventing them from getting nuked
he keeps using his troops to block friya's aimed at him while wating for nina to finish and have the device installed on the shinkiro (scene d and e)

after its installed he and C.C go to the hanger to get ready and leave to attack the democles
they meanwhile talk about things and this is where we see scene c

while lulu is getting ready to go kallen breaks in and we have scene a
she and lelouch talk for a little while when she has him at claw point (she cant bring herself to kill him,even if she didnt love him there is no way kallen kills an unarmed man with her knightmare in a manner that only fits people like luciano) and she asks what he is doing, he starts telling her some of the facts (maybe even telling her what she really means to him) and she may end up asking him why he didnt ask her to help him (if the plan really is to destroy shnizel and himself then he'll tell her that,possibly resulting in the gum line)
but here is the importent thing
the guren is standing right between lelouch and the shinkiro
and with the lancelot outside (no way would they have the final battle indoors when you have such a nice smoke filled sky scene b) C.C steps in and not so much saves him from kallen as gets kallen out of the way for him to get to the shinkiro
since there is no way in hell C.C can force kallen to move using KMF combat (the lancelot has no hope even if its was suzaku piloting it) and if they fight for any length of time lulu would not reach the shinkiro (he'll be in danger of being crashed)
im guessing C.C does the only thing she can do in order to keep kallen there and thats to use a mental attack (like the one she used on suzaku and anya)
she tells lulu to go possibly using her gum line and tells him that she'll keep kallen there (both to keep her from stopping his plan, and to keep her safe)
lulu goes and C.C stays with kallen and the two start talking in the world of C (or what ever you call her mind world) kallen questions what is going on and why C.C wont stop him
after a while she may convince C.C to help her stop him
C.C lets her go and they both set out to stop lulu
meanwhile suzaku and lelouch are on the way to the democles but since they found out the guren is back in teh battle field (and since its much faster then the shinkiro suzaku stays behind telling lulu to go and finish what they started while he keeps kallen from interfering with the plan
kallen stays to fight suzaku while C.C goes on to the democles

and then you have a strange situation where both suzaku AND kallen are on lulu's side but while suzaku is fighting to protect lulus plan kallen is fighting to defend lulu from it
lulu's sword and shield (no matter how you look at it,kallen is lulu's shield) fighting each other and both for lulu

in the fight between them there is one factor that we have all always assumed will grant suzaku the victory and that is the LIVE geass command
but while the LIVE command helps him win in battle
its not what its ment to do
its to make him live no matter what, and if this fight takes place after kallen learns the truth about the plan then i dont think she would be trying to kill him anymore
she would be trying to get him to pull his head out of his ass and help her save lulu's and his own lives
its possible that when the command triggers (which we know it will) then rather then making him kill kallen
it could end up making him give up the fight (drop his weapons,end the fight) since by letting the plan continue means death for both him and lelouch
its a long shot but the battle has to turn against shnizel at some point and they both have to be part of it

the reason i think this script is likely is that
a)they always try to fuck us with the preview
si having kallen threaten lulu in the same ep where we know she and suzaku are fighting one another is a good way to hide the fact that she is fighting him to defend lulu and not attack him
b)kallen is the only main character not yet in on the plan and there is no way in hell that she hears about shnizel's plan on the radio like a mook
c)we need a use for all the character development she had all season (the talks with nunnaly, the picture book)
d)kallen has to do something that makes her bond with lelouch as importent as its cracked up to be

i am also posting this on the kallen thread but i think this might fit better here

You know, this is almost exactly how I thought this episode may play out in my head last night when I went to bed. Thanks for typing it up; means I don't have to. Problem is, I still think somehow Diethard is going to double cross Schneizel; I just don't know how it will fit into the plan. Also, I still can't figure out exactly what Zero's Requium is; I can't shake the feeling that it has to do with some kind of big Geass secret.

Nothing to do now than wait and see.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by youngde

You know, this is almost exactly how I thought this episode may play out in my head last night when I went to bed. Thanks for typing it up; means I don't have to. Problem is, I still think somehow Diethard is going to double cross Schneizel; I just don't know how it will fit into the plan. Also, I still can't figure out exactly what Zero's Requium is; I can't shake the feeling that it has to do with some kind of big Geass secret.

Nothing to do now than wait and see.

if the original plan calls for lulu to get to the avalon he would also want to brodcast the fact shnizel is an ass hole so the UFN wouldnt try and stop him

[youngde]

Originally Posted by Baixinho

Ok, and maybe a love decalration form Lelouch to Kallen too

As much as would love to see this, I think at best it's more likely that Kallen would say her gum line, and Lelouch would say something smug like "Well then, I guess you won't forgive me." or "I never asked for you forgiveness." or the like.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Var

And in the end Treize did it the best. He had neither overpowered Gundams nor magical powers.

That's why I am hoping KrimzonStriker is wrong, it just makes him look like a shitty asshole version of Treize who needs mystical magical powers. Also since the ending of Gundam Wing was set up much better it would come of as the better version of it.

I can't believe that with Tanaguchi going on and on about how Sunrise has screwed him that he would make an ending that was a shittier version of a series that was already mediocre(to be fair Gundam Wing had great villans, the heroes where shitty).

I am not asking for G Gundam or Gurren Lagann creativity, but at least do something that hasn't been done by Gundam Wing, and made worse by the fact that while Code Geass might have been planning this from the begenning, Gundam 00 already beat them to the punch, and it would look even worse.

[Var]

I'm begining to think, actually, that the Zero Requiem has nothing to do with Lelouch and Suzaku turning themselves into demons to erase Euphemia from memory, but to stall Schneizel. If the UFN joins Lelouch, Schneizel has nothing barring him from just nuking the shit out of everyone. However, in the light that they do, which they did, join Schniezel, then he is (as he is now) limited in his usage of FLEIJA. Meaning, he is unable to act freely as his fortress climbs in the atmosphere. Schneizel is, basically, limited by the politics of war by Lelouch's actions.

In the mean time, Lelouch is allowed to develop the anti-FREIJA technology, and ultimately undermine Schneizel's objective. If the truth to Schneizel is revealed by a certain possible mole, then much as Cornelia opposed, the world would oppose, and Euphemia will swiftly be forgotten under the weight of Schneizel's plot.

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

That's why I am hoping KrimzonStriker is wrong, it just makes him look like a shitty asshole version of Treize who needs mystical magical powers. Also since the ending of Gundam Wing was set up much better it would come of as the better version of it.

I can't believe that with Tanaguchi going on and on about how Sunrise has screwed him that he would make an ending that was a shittier version of a series that was already mediocre(to be fair Gundam Wing had great villans, the heroes where shitty).

I am not asking for G Gundam or Gurren Lagann creativity, but at least do something that hasn't been done by Gundam Wing, and made worse by the fact that while Code Geass might have been planning this from the begenning, Gundam 00 already beat them to the punch, and it would look even worse.

Read above for why I do not think it is what everyone assumes it to be.

[equinox822]

I'm confident that Zero's Requiem will feature Lelouch taking up the mask again, returning as Zero. (one in a million that) As for why, not finished thinking that just yet.

[KrimzonStriker]

Well, do I think that was part of it as well Var, but more of an immediate strategy, while at the same time I'm curious to see whether or not Zero Requiem has a more meaningful plan in the long run as well. No reason both our theories can't co-exist

[Ruvixur]

Originally Posted by equinox822

I'm confident that Zero's Requiem will feature Lelouch taking up the mask again, returning as Zero. (one in a million that) As for why, not finished thinking that just yet.

Uh. It might go with Lelouch turning all world against him.
Then the one who will lead it against him will be Zero ( Lelouch). Because only BK knows the truth ( and Schneizel), you just have to kill them.
Then Lelouch will make the world as he wants it to be being Zero. Because Zero is Justice.

Edit:
It will be soooo fun if Zero Requiem is just "usual" world domination.

[Var]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Well, do I think that was part of it as well Var, but more of an immediate strategy, while at the same time I'm curious to see whether or not Zero Requiem has a more meaningful plan in the long run as well

My point is that the plan is probably not an inferior knock off of Treize's plan. If you look at it in light of Schneizel's plan, Lelouch and Suzaku had little choice but to antagonize the entire world and force it to side with Schneizel, in affect limiting his mobility and options. Remember, this is a chess game, a player's freedom on the battlefield affects his options. By limiting Schneizel's mobility, you limit his options.

But, in doing it this way which is likely the only way, they have painted themselves into a corner. There is no guarantee that the world won't hate them once everything is said and done.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Var

My point is that the plan is probably not an inferior knock off of Treize's plan. If you look at it in light of Schneizel's plan, Lelouch and Suzaku had little choice but to antagonize the entire world and force it to side with Schneizel, in affect limiting his mobility and options. Remember, this is a chess game, a player's freedom on the battlefield affects his options. By limiting Schneizel's mobility, you limit his options.

But, in doing it this way which is likely the only way, they have painted themselves into a corner. There is no guarantee that the world won't hate them once everything is said and done.

Well, like I said, I think that's too short term of an objective in this respect and I feel that Lelouch has a more long term objective and Damocles itself is just an obstacle in its way since in his talk with C.C. he mentions how he can't stop to reach his objective now after losing so much to get here and condemning a reign under Damocles as well, not keeping them in the same breath, which makes me think that yes it serves as a short term advantage but I still have to suspect that he has a long-term goals as well.

[Var]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Well, like I said, I think that's too short term of an objective in this respect and I feel that Lelouch has a more long term objective and Damocles itself is just an obstacle in its way since in his talk with C.C. he mentions how he can't stop to reach his objective now after losing so much to get here and condemning a reign under Damocles as well, not keeping them in the same breath, which makes me think that yes it serves as a short term advantage but I still have to wonder up his long-term goals as well in accomplishing a peaceful world.

Illogical. He is throwing away his troops just to stop Damocles. Once the fortress is down, he will have no army left. The world will step on him. Further, unifying the world by hating someone and then removing him, is not how you create change. This is where CB comes in, they keep returning to force the world to adhere to their unity. Once Lelouch is gone, the world will fall apart.

Unless, of course, he plans on Geassing everyone.

There simply cannot be a long term based on his actions, aside from possibly being hated forever.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by equinox822

I'm confident that Zero's Requiem will feature Lelouch taking up the mask again, returning as Zero. (one in a million that) As for why, not finished thinking that just yet.

then why would you call it Zero's requiem?

Originally Posted by Var

Unless, of course, he plans on Geassing everyone.

Can't be that, why bother rejecting Charles "forcing kindness" on people if you just want to do the same?

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Var

I'm begining to think, actually, that the Zero Requiem has nothing to do with Lelouch and Suzaku turning themselves into demons to erase Euphemia from memory, but to stall Schneizel. If the UFN joins Lelouch, Schneizel has nothing barring him from just nuking the shit out of everyone. However, in the light that they do, which they did, join Schniezel, then he is (as he is now) limited in his usage of FLEIJA. Meaning, he is unable to act freely as his fortress climbs in the atmosphere. Schneizel is, basically, limited by the politics of war by Lelouch's actions.

In the mean time, Lelouch is allowed to develop the anti-FREIJA technology, and ultimately undermine Schneizel's objective. If the truth to Schneizel is revealed by a certain possible mole, then much as Cornelia opposed, the world would oppose, and Euphemia will swiftly be forgotten under the weight of Schneizel's plot.

Interesting. So both Schenziel's and Lelouch's plan depended on the actions of the others.

If Lelouch steps first then Schenziel in comparison looks better.

If Schenziel links up with the UFN, then that allows Lelouch to focus on him specifically and not have to worry about him bombing everyone, yet.

Well, like I said, I think that's too short term of an objective in this respect and I feel that Lelouch has a more long term objective and Damocles itself is just an obstacle in its way since in his talk with C.C. he mentions how he can't stop to reach his objective now after losing so much to get here and condemning a reign under Damocles as well, not keeping them in the same breath, which makes me think that yes it serves as a short term advantage but I still have to suspect that he has a long-term goals as well.

Well for certain the Zero Requiem was made with Schenziel in mind.

If I recall correctly Lloyd did ask Lelouch about his plans in regards to Schenziel and he did state that he had taken control of Britannia to stall the FREIJA warheads and that was just the beginning.

[X_Danny_X]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

my take on this
in the preview we see
a)kallen on the avalon ready to kill lulu
b)the lancelot in the sky shooting
c)lulu and C.C talking in the avalon's hanger
d)lelouch sitting on a chair while looking pissed off
e)a huge friya blast taking out many of lulu's units on rader

we also know that suzaku and kallen would fight this ep since the summeries say so
and we know that nina is working on a friya related thing
since she mentioned a limiter in ep 23 im guessing its a device meant to prevent friya bombs from reaching critical mass and exploding

here is my spec of things that happen

the device nina is building is meant to be instelled on the shinkiro to allow lulu to lead his troops against the democles while preventing them from getting nuked
he keeps using his troops to block friya's aimed at him while wating for nina to finish and have the device installed on the shinkiro (scene d and e)

after its installed he and C.C go to the hanger to get ready and leave to attack the democles
they meanwhile talk about things and this is where we see scene c

while lulu is getting ready to go kallen breaks in and we have scene a
she and lelouch talk for a little while when she has him at claw point (she cant bring herself to kill him,even if she didnt love him there is no way kallen kills an unarmed man with her knightmare in a manner that only fits people like luciano) and she asks what he is doing, he starts telling her some of the facts (maybe even telling her what she really means to him) and she may end up asking him why he didnt ask her to help him (if the plan really is to destroy shnizel and himself then he'll tell her that,possibly resulting in the gum line)
but here is the importent thing
the guren is standing right between lelouch and the shinkiro
and with the lancelot outside (no way would they have the final battle indoors when you have such a nice smoke filled sky scene b) C.C steps in and not so much saves him from kallen as gets kallen out of the way for him to get to the shinkiro
since there is no way in hell C.C can force kallen to move using KMF combat (the lancelot has no hope even if its was suzaku piloting it) and if they fight for any length of time lulu would not reach the shinkiro (he'll be in danger of being crashed)
im guessing C.C does the only thing she can do in order to keep kallen there and thats to use a mental attack (like the one she used on suzaku and anya)
she tells lulu to go possibly using her gum line and tells him that she'll keep kallen there (both to keep her from stopping his plan, and to keep her safe)
lulu goes and C.C stays with kallen and the two start talking in the world of C (or what ever you call her mind world) kallen questions what is going on and why C.C wont stop him
after a while she may convince C.C to help her stop him
C.C lets her go and they both set out to stop lulu
meanwhile suzaku and lelouch are on the way to the democles but since they found out the guren is back in teh battle field (and since its much faster then the shinkiro suzaku stays behind telling lulu to go and finish what they started while he keeps kallen from interfering with the plan
kallen stays to fight suzaku while C.C goes on to the democles

and then you have a strange situation where both suzaku AND kallen are on lulu's side but while suzaku is fighting to protect lulus plan kallen is fighting to defend lulu from it
lulu's sword and shield (no matter how you look at it,kallen is lulu's shield) fighting each other and both for lulu

in the fight between them there is one factor that we have all always assumed will grant suzaku the victory and that is the LIVE geass command
but while the LIVE command helps him win in battle
its not what its ment to do
its to make him live no matter what, and if this fight takes place after kallen learns the truth about the plan then i dont think she would be trying to kill him anymore
she would be trying to get him to pull his head out of his ass and help her save lulu's and his own lives
its possible that when the command triggers (which we know it will) then rather then making him kill kallen
it could end up making him give up the fight (drop his weapons,end the fight) since by letting the plan continue means death for both him and lelouch
its a long shot but the battle has to turn against shnizel at some point and they both have to be part of it

the reason i think this script is likely is that
a)they always try to fuck us with the preview
si having kallen threaten lulu in the same ep where we know she and suzaku are fighting one another is a good way to hide the fact that she is fighting him to defend lulu and not attack him
b)kallen is the only main character not yet in on the plan and there is no way in hell that she hears about shnizel's plan on the radio like a mook
c)we need a use for all the character development she had all season (the talks with nunnaly, the picture book)
d)kallen has to do something that makes her bond with lelouch as importent as its cracked up to be

i am also posting this on the kallen thread but i think this might fit better here

not a bad spoiler, but i believe that after Suzaku stalls kallen and starts beaten her up and before going for some serious blow to her, he tries to talk to her about letting Lelouch do what he needs to do, if that doesnt work he starts fighting her again and before giving the killing blow or to just knock her out of action for some length of time, i believe a message is sent to all everyone about Schienzel's plan since all the KMF or alot of them were going back to flying fortress shown in the preview.

that is when Kallen and Suzaku have to worry about Freija and possibly Kallen loses her life in protecting Lulu from a nasty hit or stopping one Freija bomb.

i think this series will be remember more if a main character dies like Kallen dying and protecting the man she loved, becoming Avalon's sheeth, his shield.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Var

Illogical. He is throwing away his troops just to stop Damocles. Once the fortress is down, he will have no army left. The world will step on him. Further, unifying the world by hating someone and then removing him, is not how you create change. This is where CB comes in, they keep returning to force the world to adhere to their unity. Once Lelouch is gone, the world will fall apart.

Unless, of course, he plans on Geassing everyone.

There simply cannot be a long term based on his actions, aside from possibly being hated forever.

Who knows, I have faith the Lelouch might be able to pull something off here, he's not Treize but he's not that bad at the same time. Either way though any long term objective through his means would be illogical from your stand-point, so we'll just have to wait and see. I just have an inclination that Zero Requiem does have a long-term strategic objective in which to bring about real world peace. Plus, Lelouch has more of an army then the one he's losing to take down Damocles, just to counter that point, there are probably still plenty throughout the Britannian Empire he could theoretically still call upon or utilize in the Celestial Being way if he wanted too. We'll see, still a lot of things up in the air but I have faith in Lelouch despite all that

[Nvis]

Either Diethard is really helping Lelouch, or Lelouch placed a Geass on him that can activate with a command.

[Ruvixur]

Originally Posted by ashlay

then why would you call it Zero's requiem?


Can't be that, why bother rejecting Charles "forcing kindness" on people if you just want to do the same?

Because that would be Charles's doing. Lelouch want to bring "peace" himself. He doesn't like his father, because father left him and his sister behind.
Didn't he state that the thing he can't forgive is Charles and Marianne throwing away him and Nunnally. Not them wanting "instrumentality".
Agreeing with Charles's Instrumentality in Lelouch's eyes is like agreeing with Charles throwing away his children.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Ruvixur

Because that would be Charles's doing. Lelouch want to bring "peace" himself. He doesn't like his father, because father left him and his sister behind.
Didn't he state that the thing he can't forgive is Charles and Marianne throwing away him and Nunnally. Not them wanting "instrumentality".
Agreeing with Charles's Instrumentality in Lelouch's eyes is like agreeing with Charles throwing away his children.

Uh, he did come off with his own rhetoric on the whole thing if you will recall, how one needs individuality and free will in order to progress and not stagnate, how he wanted a world where everyone treated each other kindly of their own volition instead of being simply forced to do so under some hoop-la illusion of mental unification >_>

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Who knows, I have faith the Lelouch might be able to pull something off here, he's not Treize but he's not that bad at the same time. Either way though any long term objective through his means would be illogical from your stand-point, so we'll just have to wait and see. I just have an inclination that Zero Requiem does have a long-term strategic objective in which to bring about real world peace. Plus, Lelouch has more of an army then the one he's losing to take down Damocles, just to counter that point, there are probably still plenty throughout the Britannian Empire he could theoretically still call upon or utilize in the Celestial Being way if he wanted too. We'll see, still a lot of things up in the air but I have faith in Lelouch despite all that

Well there wouldn't be much point to the plan if it doesn't have a long term objective.

Either Diethard is really helping Lelouch, or Lelouch placed a Geass on him that can activate with a command.

If there is a geass Diethardt is in for a big surprise (in that case his smirk was just a "hahhahaha" at Lelouch)

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Well there wouldn't be much point to the plan if it doesn't have a long term objective.



If there is a geass Diethardt is in for a big surprise (in that case his smirk was just a "hahhahaha" at Lelouch)

That's what I'm saying!!

As for Diethard, I'll keep an eye on him, I'm not expecting much at the same time though, but I'll keep such possibilities in mind