(L+CR) Nagi no Asukara (Nagi-Asu: A Lull in the Sea)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Except I would be willing to bet that there's a strong correlation between the folks who were complaining about Hikari then and the ones who like the direction of the series now.

Yes, there probably is a correlation.

Because I think for a lot of viewers, Hikari's character started improving around the same time that Miuna's character started receiving greater focus, and that this wasn't coincidental. In other words, Miuna brought out the best in him, something which Manaka (and Chisaki) struggled to do.

I know that's a bit blunt, but it's honestly how a big part of me feels, and it's part of the reason why I like the idea of Hikari/Miuna more than I do the idea of Hikari/Manaka.

[deadite]

In all honesty, I'm not into shipping and I think some of the relationships in this show is just a means to develop the characters. I for one think Hikari will have a tragic fate in the end. I don't mean death but maybe he dedicates himself to something impossible. Or he is forever lost to his friends.

Also, is there any news when the OST comes out? Love the music in this show. I think there is a specific Akari theme I like listening to alot.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes, there probably is a correlation.

Because I think for a lot of viewers, Hikari's character started improving around the same time that Miuna's character started receiving greater focus, and that this wasn't coincidental. In other words, Miuna brought out the best in him, something which Manaka (and Chisaki) struggled to do.

I know that's a bit blunt, but it's honestly how a big part of me feels, and it's part of the reason why I like the idea of Hikari/Miuna more than I do the idea of Hikari/Manaka.

Yeah, suffice to say I could not possibly disagree more with that assessment. The Hikari we see know was there all along - it was a combination of factors which led to that more mature side of him becoming more obvious.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

The Hikari we see know was there all along - it was a combination of factors which led to that more mature side of him becoming more obvious.

The Hikari we see now is due, in part, to the impact of others. Others gave him reason to change which gave him greater impetus to mature as a person.

And frankly, Manaka and Chisaki are not the ones who did that. Akari and Miuna were much more instrumental there.


Look, do you really think that the Hikari of the first few episodes was a likeable character simply bound to become the character he is now regardless of the impact of other characters on him?

[deadite]

I don't think anyone's denying Hikari had those traits within him from the beginning. He's just saying the entire ordeal with the Shiodome family, including Miuna were a catalyst to let his hidden potential out. Miuna played a huge part in Hikari's deovelopment. Despite your misgivings about episode 5 Enzo, it was practically the episode that got so many to watch the series because this is about the same time Hikari started to consider the Land Dwellers feelings. You never really see Hikari being antagonistic after that. Even he kept his problem to himself in the pool episode. Episode 5 is also the episode the portrayed Hikari as "cool".

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by deadite

I don't think anyone's denying Hikari had those traits within him from the beginning. He's just saying the entire ordeal with the Shiodome family, including Miuna were a catalyst to let his hidden potential out. Miuna played a huge part in Hikari's deovelopment. Despite your misgivings about episode 5, Enzo, it was practically the episode that got so many to watch the series because this is abou the same time Hikari started to consider the Land Dwellers feelings. You never really see Hikari being antagonistic after that. Even he kept his problem to himself in the pool episode.

Right. Hikari always had the potential to become the character he is now, that's definitely true. But people don't always realize their potential. They usually need others to help them realize their potential.

The Shiodome family played a huge role in Hikari's maturation as a person.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by deadite

That's pure speculation though. I hardly see Nagi Asu as pandering to anything.

It's deliberately stirring up shippers with all this over-the-top romance wangst. That to me is pandering.

This moe phobia has to stop.

Who said anything about moe? We were criticising that Miuna and Sayu (particularly Sayu) because of the manufactured drama they caused, not the fact they were moe or had moe designs.

While this show does have moe-buriki art style, I could hardly say the tone of the show fits any kind of moe anime.

Then you can dismiss an entire popular franchise by the name of Key. Key thrives on moe, making said moe characters them suffer and then some magical heartwarming (or asspull depending on how you see it) event occurring.

I still hold the opinion this show is high calibur despite how some of you have come to despise it . It's the do to anime I wait for every week. It has probably the best cliffhangers I've seen in an anime for a while. I hardly feel anything in the show deserves the derision you give it. It's just your point of view and I'm glad I still get to enjoy with some people. I'm sorry you guys no longer enjoy where the show is headed.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that this isn't a good show. It still is, but the warning signs are blatantly obvious and unless the focus shifts away from this heavy romance element which is crass and annoying, it runs the risk of doing the same thing it did during the early parts of the 1st cour. And just about everyone here is too invested and too far into the series to drop it at this point.

[deadite]

Another pet theory is that Hikari is the Moon. Several of his best scenes are set at night with moon present. After Manaka goes back to the village after talking to Tsumugu, she looks at the Moon. In the PV when Manaka says she will head towards the light(Hikari) the camera pans to a night sky with moon. If Tsumugu is the sun, then Hikari is the moon, but we don't know what the significance of the moon is though for Manaka..

@Pocari

Really stirring up shippers? I don't think so. Why blame the show for how the fans act. I have low opinion of shippers too but what they make the show out be has no actual bearing on what the show is. The show isn't some romantic wankfest. It' the shippers who are making it like that. I don't think the show is overly concerned with who ends up who, more than how their feelings affect them. The show isn't making arguments why x should end up with y and none of the characters feel that they deserve to be with their object of affection.

[ices]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes, there probably is a correlation.

Because I think for a lot of viewers, Hikari's character started improving around the same time that Miuna's character started receiving greater focus, and that this wasn't coincidental. In other words, Miuna brought out the best in him, something which Manaka (and Chisaki) struggled to do.

I know that's a bit blunt, but it's honestly how a big part of me feels, and it's part of the reason why I like the idea of Hikari/Miuna more than I do the idea of Hikari/Manaka.

Do you mean the episode when the little miuna fall to the sea for the first time or maybe something else? I like to hear more...

What I get was the opposite. Hikari was the one who bring the best in Miuna.
He was the one who teach Miuna to not playing dirty (episode 4). Hence she cover Sayu mistakes and help them to fix that.
When she was afraid of loving Akari since it'll just bring a pain and grief like what happened when her mother die (episode 5). Hikari was the one who save her and show her that loving someone not always a bad thing. Thus, we could see in Episode 14 flashback, Miuna decided not to cry after losing Hikari. She even becomes the figure who help Akari to move on with her live (from Akari's flashback). And probably this is the main reason why Miuna so persistent with her childhood crush... because Hikari taught her so...

Originally Posted by deadite

Another pet theory is that Hikari is the Moon. Several of his best scenes are set at night with moon present. After Manaka goes back to the village after talking to Tsumugu, she looks at the Moon. In the PV when Manaka says she will head towards the light(Hikari) the camera pans to a night sky with moon. If Tsumugu is the sun, then Hikari is the moon, but we don't know what the significance of the moon is though for Manaka..

+ Hikari wakes up from his hibernation when there are three moon in the sky.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by deadite

Really stirring up shippers? I don't think so. Why blame the show for how the fans act. I have low opinion of shippers too but what they make the show out be has no actual bearing on what the show is. The show isn't some romantic wankfest. It' the shippers who are making it like that. I don't think the show is overly concerned with who ends up with more than how their feelings affect them.

I see what I see, and to me it's intentional. Particularly because it's a anime original script written by Mari Okada. I don't know how much experience you have with her, but I've seen nearly all anime (adapted and original) from her and really the style of romance she does is nearly "all the same shit". The shippers are at fault yes, but it's equally if not more the writer and director's fault for providing the ammunition in the first place in an obnoxious manner. NagiAsu is providing that ammunition by deliberately shipteasing using characters like Miuna, Sayu and even Chisaki as the anchors.

[deadite]

Yes you see what you see and let's leave it at that. For I don't think the writer's are at fault for how their fans act. If you want real shipper pandering look at Legend of Korra, but that's not really anime. That's a show the the creators admittedly put pairings and love triangles in a show that didn't need it.

[Flower]

You know... in the first half of the series it took until ep 5 for the series to crank into gear and I felt it brought together a lot of the seemingly "why do I have to face all these annoying elements" into an engaging story. Now in the second half it is taking its own sweet time again (generally speaking) and there are complaints again.

In other words, going by the patterns already shown in the first half maybe it would be better to give the series the benefit of the doubt? There are still several eps left and as we saw in the first half all sorts of things can move effectively, quickly and engagingly.

****

Also - just a reminder to keep the discussion civil. No one has gone over the line quite yet but I get the feeling a few people might be twitching their trigger finger here.

I would not want to see the thread closed again.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Flower

You know... in the first half of the series it took until ep 5 for the series to crank into gear and I felt it brought together a lot of the seemingly "why do I have to face all these annoying elements" into an engaging story. Now in the second half it is taking its own sweet time again (generally speaking) and there are complaints again.

In other words, going by the patterns already shown in the first half maybe it would be better to give the series the benefit of the doubt? There are still several eps left and as we saw in the first half all sorts of things can move effectively, quickly and engagingly.

That's what I'm hoping and banking on. I actually dropped the series and picked it up again during its 1st cour when colleagues told me it got significantly better. And better it did get. This time I'm actually sticking it to the end and experiencing it since at this point, I'm too invested to drop the series.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Right. Hikari always had the potential to become the character he is now, that's definitely true. But people don't always realize their potential. They usually need others to help them realize their potential.

The Shiodome family played a huge role in Hikari's maturation as a person.

Of course others are necessary to help us mature. Empathy is what maturation is all about to a decent extent, and that was the case with Hikari - he began to see the world through the eyes of others, and this was crucial in his development. But it's not as if that's anything unusual or unique, and it certainly doesn't seem to me that, as you say, it was Miuna's munificent presence which brought out Hikari's maturity. If anything, it was Akari's situation that was the key - it prompted him to re-think the whole landies vs. sea people false dichotomy, and to recognize that if two people are in love sometimes it's better to support them even if it's not better for you personally. Honestly, I don't think Miuna specifically had much to do with it except in giving Hikari a chance to be an older sibling after having grown up as a younger.

[deadite]

Originally Posted by ices

Do you mean the episode when the little miuna fall to the sea for the first time or maybe something else? I like to hear more...

What I get was the opposite. Hikari was the one who bring the best in Miuna.
He was the one who teach Miuna to not playing dirty (episode 4). Hence she cover Sayu mistakes and help them to fix that.
When she was afraid of loving Akari since it'll just bring a pain and grief like what happened when her mother die (episode 5). Hikari was the one who save her and show her that loving someone not always a bad thing. Thus, we could see in Episode 14 flashback, Miuna decided not to cry after losing Hikari. She even becomes the figure who help Akari to move on with her live (from Akari's flashback). And probably this is the main reason why Miuna so persistent with her childhood crush... because Hikari taught her so...

It was a 2 way development. Hikari's ordeal with the Shiodomes made him more sensitive with the Land Dwellers and Miuna learned to be less selfish.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by ices

Do you mean the episode when the little miuna fall to the sea for the first time or maybe something else?

Yeah, that one. The resulting scene between Hikari and Miuna was very sweet, and I think it brought out the best of Hikari's inherent protectiveness.

Hikari is inherently protective of the people he knows and/or cares about.

The situation with his sister (involving Miuna) gave him an opportunity to channel that protectiveness in a very productive way, in the process learning the difference between being helpful/constructive and being bossy/disruptive.

The situation with his sister was difficult and complicated, forcing Hikari to think a bit deeper than what he had been accustomed to. He had to look at things from different sides and perspectives, realizing the importance of what other people want for themselves, and not just what he wants for them.

He wasn't learning this from Manaka and Chisaki because they're not as transparent and straightforward as Akari, Miuna, and Sayu are. It's hard to realize the importance of what other people want for themselves when those same wants are shrouded from you or couched in subtle hard-to-get hints.


But you're certainly right that Hikari brought out the best in Miuna as well. Yes, Hikari doesn't play dirty - Even at his worst, he's very honest and straightforward and confronts people head-on. From seeing that example, Miuna became disgusted at the tactics that her and Sayu had been employing, which definitely help a lot in their improvements as characters and people.

So I'd say that Hikari and Miuna bring out the best in each other. That's a very nice basis for a romance, if you ask me.


That being said, Pocari is right that Okada is deftly playing up shipping battles. There's probably no anime writer that does that as well as Okada does. I honestly find it kind of fun, when it comes to anime discussion. But admittedly it can get a bit tiresome in the anime episodes themselves, so I hope the narrative takes a broader focus soon. Thankfully, the narrative does seem to be heading this way with Miuna getting ena, and all of Tsumugu's research efforts meeting with some fruition.

[Gohan78]

I am a romance buff so I very much enjoy the increased focus on the love polygon in this second half. Honestly I didn't care much for Akari's situation in the first half. If only Okada made Itaru a bit more interesting...

As for the other themes of the show, it's not that they are forgotten, it's just that they are resolved already (Hikari learned to appreciate the land dwellers) or temporarily suspended due to the hibernation.

The Ice Age problem is being addessed through Tsumugu's professor. It doesn't appear to be an immediate danger anyway. It seems something that happens slowly over the course of many decades.

Miuna is the main character of the second half so it's expected that she receives more focus than everyone else. I like her character very much: she is sweet, caring and determined. Exactly what I like in a heroine. I much prefer her to Manaka, although realistically speaking she doesn't stand much chance to "win": Hikari just doesn't view her as a woman.

[Thess]

My connection has been truly terrible, so apologies for the delay.

Originally Posted by deadite

@Thess
There was a throey going around that Uroko was Hikari that was born from several Uroko related scenes and instances in the show. One was that he shows playful interest in Manaka and he knew more about the friction between Akari and Miuna even though nobody else knew about that. He is able to relate with Hikari's love problems and grinned when Hikari said that Uroko didn't know anything about him. Manaka said that Uroko once gave her really good advice about depending on her three friends respectively. Of course his knowledge of future events played in to this cute little theory as well. Similar mannerisms and facial expression from both characters not present in any other character. Also if you grew Hikari's hair really long it might look like Uroko's.

I think he knows because he's the sea god's scale and the sea god is an omniscient creature. He brought up the connection once, just to point this out. I think the theory is interesting but not very likely given the evidence, it would have been actually cool if there was more proof and a way to explain this.

Originally Posted by deadite

Also the poster itself depicts Manaka alone with Uroko. Two characters who supposedly don't have that much history together but are featured prominently on that piece.

Well, true but Manaka is in all posters. She's the poster girl. She has gotten interaction with Uroko. If it was Chisaki or Kaname, it would be weird, on the other hand.


On this "Hikari arc-maturation" discussion: The first one who made him re-think was Tsumugu. His maturation process began with his struggle with jealousy and become a better man thanks to the "relationship" between Manaka and Tsumugu. Manaka's adoration and Tsumugu's open-mind is what helped him accept the surface. Akari's situation was the next step for him to show he changed in general. But the change was already there when he shoved Tsumugu down the pool and cheerfully played with him. Without an act of honest and sincere friendliness without any ulterior motive, there would not be catalyst for Hikari to change. That wasn't Miuna, it was Tsumugu. He matured for his sister's sake but also for Manaka's sake, it was a process in parallel. Of course Miuna also became important, she was considered family and she still is. Akari's circumstances allowed him to apply the process that had already started.

Edit: It's more accurate to say that every surface character produced a change in the sea dwellers and also goes the other way around, just like the changes of some impacted on the rest of the circle. Manaka and Akari are examples. This also include Sayama and his classmate, not only applies to the main cast.

[Arya]

I also think that Hikari's growing up is due firstly to Manaka (and so to Tsumugu) and later to Akari. It was since Manaka posed her eyes to Tsumugu that Hikari was forced to look at the surface in a new way. He was forced to look at it in a not biased way, thing that made him realize that same bias. Tsumugu was pivotal because it was through him that Hikari was able to connect with the surface people that were also biased and so reluctant as much as him. Where instead Tsumugu was not. But it is Manaka who was his main drive. Then Akari came into play with her mirrored situation with Itaru. Situation that helped him to see the matter from a different angle, and yet closer if possible. A wider and maybe deeper situation, because more serious, real and closer. It helped him to see and feel the real implications of Manaka's supposed wish, and so even the ugliness. Everyone had their role in one way or another. But it was Manaka and Akari who played the main role in his maturation IMO.

[ices]

@Triple_R: That's sure a nice way to interpret that. Sound solid and good.

Meanwhile, NagiAsu Love chart v2