Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 28 Discussion

[kakakka]

Originally Posted by monster

You don't seem to understand.

Let me explain this again:

1. Zant has a giant mobile suit.
2. Flit is standing right next to the prime minister.
3. Zant could have killed them BOTH.

Did he do that?
No, he did not.
Did he even kill the prime minister?
No, not even that.

My verdict: Incompetence

Gundam Age-2 appeared.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

When Vegan do genocide it's OK

It's not OK, but they're supposed to be the villains of the show anyway. Do I really have to voice my disagreement of them?

Originally Posted by kakakka

Gundam Age-2 appeared.

Did you not see Flit still talking to the prime minister while Zant just stood there or taking slow steps towards them?

[faceroll]

some things I noticed in this episode:

~no hopes for flit changing his ways
~asemu seems more mature than ever
~flit being his typical cold self of ignoring his family(didn't attend his son's wedding)
~wtf is with romary's hat, its like half her height or something.
~I think that blonde guy was lucky to be near that prime minister's wife

all in all, this episode feels more rushed than the others.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Sorry, I just had to make one last

LOL

at how the only way the Flit fanboys can attack the anti-genocide-ers is by accusing us of defending the Vegans' actions when we absolutely are not.


Well that's not a problem. Since Flit doesn't want to negotiate with the Vegan's, whether it were possible or not, as he said in his own words clear as day.

Really?
Than how many times did you critics Vegan genocide human and how many time did you critics Flit trying to(haven't done it yet) genocide Vegan?
No matter how I see it I can't think of anything buy that you people hate Flit and think that he is 10000000 times worse the Vegan....

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by monster

The diiference is Flit won't even leave room for the idea that they would be able to have come to terms with the Vagans in the future. Ever heard of space travel?

Ever heard of logistics?

The only series I recall that had system travel in it was Gundam 00 and that was only because the ships had Trans-AM. Otherwise it'd take decades to get from point a to point B.

To send an expedition to Mars to wipe out the Vagans would require a lot of manpower and resources to do so. That and once there there's almost no turning back either.

I find it hilarious that you would go to such great lengths at attacking a stance that nobody (certainly not I) is taking.

Nice try but I'm just painting out the facts which isn't that hard. If you don't believe me you can watch the series and see it for yourself. On the other hand, you guys are just going to great lengths trying to compare him to the next Hitler. All I do is just say, "Well no because that hasn't happened or none of it actually showed"

And if you look on this board you'll see several posters trying to do just that, paint Flit like he's a monster while the Vagans are the victims.

I'm not going to argue this anymore, because there's no point. Genocide is wrong. Period. End of story. I don't care what you say, and anybody else with their head screwed on straight knows this. There's nothing anybody can say or do to change thw wrong-ness of genocide.

Too bad because I really dislike it when people would critize a party for one action but not the other when he's doing the same thing. Hell until I see Flit executing a spy that's useless to him, massacre colonies, gas citizens, use civilians as hostages, etc. Then I will understand that viewpoint. In fact the Vagans have done little to prove Flit wrong that they shouldn't be defeated.

It's firmly stated that the Federation went to great lengths to negotiate peace with the Vagans. All of these were rejected so what is Flit suppose to do? He's cause them massive damage yet they still keep coming on them yet you guys keep critizing him for being brutal. When Vagan grab civilans as hostages, you guys stay quiet. When Flit moves in and tries to take them out ASAP while minimizing collateral damage you guys cry havoc on him.

And the fact that the Prime Minister himself was in cahoots with the Vagans (he even claims Lord Ezcelant was talking to him) and the negotations failed means that the Vagans aren't interested in co-existing with them at all. That or the Minister himself is really an imcompetent fool.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Really?
Than how many times did you critics Vegan genocide human and how many time did you critics Flit trying to(haven't done it yet) genocide Vegan?
No matter how I see it I can't think of anything buy that you people hate Flit and think that he is 10000000 times worse the Vegan....

Why do we have to criticize the Vegans for being the bad guys they are? I wasn't aware that needed to be pointed out, unlike a Gundam protagonist going Darth Vader.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

It's firmly stated that the Federation went to great lengths to negotiate peace with the Vagans. All of these were rejected so what is Flit suppose to do? He's cause them massive damage yet they still keep coming on them yet you guys keep critizing him for being brutal. When Vagan grab civilans as hostages, you guys stay quiet. When Flit moves in and tries to take them out ASAP while minimizing collateral damage you guys cry havoc on him.

You do realize that in lots of wars in real life, sides have tried to make peace and failed before the actual end of the war? It still gives no excuse for genocide.

Wow, rabid fanboys can get ugly. And blind.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Sorry, I just had to make one last

LOL

at how the only way the Flit fanboys can attack the anti-genocide-ers is by accusing us of defending the Vegans' actions when we absolutely are not.


Well that's not a problem. Since Flit doesn't want to negotiate with the Vegans, whether it's were possible or not. As he specifically said in his own words clear as day.

Aye because they do not act as Humans would. They are no better than Nazis to Flit.

As far as we know Vegan don't keep POWs. Massacring civilians or in the case of the last major battle attempting to take hostage and put as slave labor an entire colony.

If you were in his position would you negotiate with Nazi wannabees? Would it even come to mind? No you'd utterly defeat them or wipe them out.

To the Vegans this is an ideological war. Flit isn't taking their bullshit. Neither is Asemu rebuffing Zant's rant.

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by Liquidzero

It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Emperor Flit and his right hand Darth Asemu succeed in consolidating Federation Supremacy by weeding out government officials sympathetic to the Rebellion, Han Zeharto is locked in carbonetic sleep by the evil gangster Ezcalant the Hut. Things could not look worse for the Vagan Rebellion.

Stay tuned for Episode VI Return of the Vagan

Awesome sauce.

This episode wasn't particularly impressive action-wise but it did wrap up the pro-Vagan conspiracy subplot in a dramatic fashion. The real generation 2 ending was last week methinks. It also managed to draw many sweet tears from viewers, in true Gundam RAGE fashion. Half the shippers were dealt a lethal blow - Romary got a promotion after being an extra for most of the previous 8-10 episodes. Kio looks normal but I am joining the crowd of confused who cannot figure out if the person sitting next to him in the car is his boyfriend or girlfriend - my money's on it being a girl though. And a big LOL @ Flit still piloting something, that guy never gives up.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Aye because they do not act as Humans would. They are no better than Nazis to Flit.

As far as we know Vegan don't keep POWs. Massacring civilians or in the case of the last major battle attempting to take hostage and put as slave labor an entire colony.

If you were in his position would you negotiate with Nazi wannabees? Would it even come to mind? No you'd utterly defeat them or wipe them out.

To the Vegans this is an ideological war. Flit isn't taking their bullshit. Neither is Asemu rebuffing Zant's rant.

Wow, rabid fanboy and murderous tendencies. Bad comination.

As I recall, the Allies didn't erradicate the Nazis. And if I were in Flit's position, I wouldn't be wanting to exterminate the enemy populace.

Okay, I really need to stop. The sheer volume of blind fanboy-ness I'm seeing here is really making me feel ashamed of being a fan of anime...........

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

You do realize that in lots of wars in real life, sides have tried to make peace and failed before the actual end of the war? It still gives no excuse for genocide.

There are tons of shows where politicians that are in cahoots with the enemy do a good job of restraining their military and then pushing for peace in the enemy's favour.

Given that Eczelant literally converted the Prime Minister to his cause speaks of his incompetence but I think we've covered that already.

Wow, rabid fanboys can get ugly. And blind.

Yeah I can see that. Your so blind you aren't even reading my posts at all.

And the fact that the Prime Minister himself was in cahoots with the Vagans (he even claims Lord Ezcelant was talking to him) and the negotations failed means that the Vagans aren't interested in co-existing with them at all. That or the Minister himself is really an imcompetent fool.

The fact that your going to great lenghts to call me a rabid fanboy is sad and pathetic as I haven't even called you names nor will I go into that. I'm just pointing out the facts since your so blind in your hatred of Flit that I need to question if your even watching the series.

[Rising Dragon]

It's possible that Ezelcant wants Flit alive for some reason, so they wouldn't want him dead just yet.

As for this whole genocide debate, guys, keep in mind: neither Vagan nor Flit are in the right. Genocide can't be condoned, but you can't give one a free pass over the other. Yes, what Flit wants is not healthy and that's something that needs to change. But keep in mind that Vagan, for all their tribulations on Mars, were only just murdering innocent civilians wherever they found them. Colony after colony, destroyed regardless of a Federation presence or not. They're no better than what Flit wants.

Both need to change. So if you're gonna give a free pass for one, give one to both. If you're gonna slam one for genocide, slam them both. To do otherwise is to just be hypocritical.

[monster]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Ever heard of logistics?

The only series I recall that had system travel in it was Gundam 00 and that was only because the ships had Trans-AM. Otherwise it'd take decades to get from point a to point B.

To send an expedition to Mars to wipe out the Vagans would require a lot of manpower and resources to do so. That and once there there's almost no turning back either.

That's besides the point. I'm not concerned about whether it would actually be a good idea to do it. My focus is own Flit's own claim that he wants to annihilate the Vagans all along.

Nice try but I'm just painting out the facts which isn't that hard. If you don't believe me you can watch the series and see it for yourself. On the other hand, you guys are just going to great lengths trying to compare him to the next Hitler. All I do is just say, "Well no because that hasn't happened or none of it actually showed"

And if you look on this board you'll see several posters trying to do just that, paint Flit like he's a monster while the Vagans are the victims.

Well, regardless of what other posters may have stated, calling out Flit's extreme claim is not about excusing what the Vagans did. And you're right, Flit hasn't actually done anything, but his intention has been made clear. That makes it fair game for people to discuss now. If it never happens, that's fine. And I'll be glad to see that. But as of right now, Flit has made it clear that he won't settle for anything less than the annihilation of the Vagans. That doesn't mean the Vagans is any better, but it does mean that Flit may just turn out to be as bad as them if he continues on this path.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

If you're gonna slam one for genocide, slam them both. To do otherwise is to just be hypocritical.

Not necessarily, as I stated above, the Vagans are the obvious villains of this series. We don't need to constantly slam them, especially when they've been doing it since episode 1.

With Flit, it's something that's developing and, since he's the main character anyway, it shouldn't be surprising that he would be put under the microscope, so to speak. But just because some people may not be slamming the Vagans, that doesn't mean they approve of the Vagans' actions.

And it's certainly not being hypocritical, necessarily.

[kk2extreme]

So I take it that Age-3 is a overhaul Age-1

[FlareKnight]

This is getting pretty sad. I'm going to throw out a crazy theory that both Flit and the Vegans can be wrong. Let's have that crazy idea sink in a little.

Will also delve into the obvious. The leadership of the Vegans is wrong in how they are going about things. If they wanted to get back to Earth should have tried a million other options before starting as terrorists and then escalating from there.

Genocide Flit is also wrong. Unfortunately this generation has only hardened his hatred. On top of his family and Yurin, he's now lost Grodek and Woolf. There aren't many who can stand up against him right now. If that wedding scene means anything it seems to hint Flit becoming even more distant from his family than he was already. I'm also worried about this purge he's going with. Getting rid of traitors and spies is fine, but how far will he go? Will it simply be people with concrete proof of dealing with the Vegans or will it be anyone who talks about peaceful negotiations or just disagrees with him? Flit is dangerously close to becoming one heck of an evil dictator. And yes Vegans have done terrible things (just so my position isn't confused).

They did settle things with Asemu and Romary rather quickly. Once again I'm really wishing that they'd given more episodes to the first two generations. They were just too rushed. I'm glad at least Asemu got a lot more development there than Flit and Emily. He made clear how he felt and in the end was shown getting married.

I kind of regret that Asemu didn't end up clashing openly with Flit. I kind of expected his friendship with Zeheart would help lead to that. But maybe it will all be left up to Kio who should get more episodes than the other guys.

I did find the Zant failing to kill the Prime Minister comical. He's got a powerful unit and he takes time to line up the sights ? Just start destroying everything in front of you man, you'll get him.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Wow, rabid fanboy and murderous tendencies. Bad comination.

As I recall, the Allies didn't erradicate the Nazis.
If I were in his position, I wouldn't be wanting to exterminate the enemy populace.

Except being german doesn't mean one is a Nazi. Flit is at the same mentality as the 45th Infantry Division of the U.S. Seventh Army when they found Dachau concentration camp. Their response? Kill all the SS officers. A war crime yes, those soldiers did not see the SS officers fit to live after what they've done.

So far within Earth sphere all Vegans are military. This means they are fair game.

Flit is committed in protecting Earth. The Federation doesn't have the resources to strike back on Mars. So any Vegan that comes to invade are legitimate targets.

Flit isn't exactly merciless. He did spare Decil. Decil killing Yurin was the turning point. He saw that if Vegans can twist a mere seven year old boy to a psychopath he came to the opinion they don't deserve to exist. He gave Decil a chance to change but he didn't take it. In the end he was just an annoyance and Flit didn't need to finish him off.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by monster

Not necessarily, as I stated above, the Vagans are the obvious villains of this series. We don't need to constantly slam them, especially when they've been doing it since episode 1.

With Flit, it's something that's developing and, since he's the main character anyway, it shouldn't be surprising that he would be put under the microscope, so to speak. But just because some people may not be slamming the Vagans, that doesn't mean they approve of the Vagans' actions.

And it's certainly not being hypocritical, necessarily.

Obviously. But ever since episode 15 all over the net I've seen everyone woobifying the Vagans into saints for their actions when they have done little to nothing to earn any real sympathy. YES, they had a hard life. YES, the Federation abandoned them. So how the hell does that justify them murdering countless innocents instead of fighting against their real enemy?

It does not.

But everyone else seems to think otherwise and I'm sick of it. The only sympathetic one we've seen thus far is Zeheart, and that's because he showed that he still had a heart--even though he believed in the Vagans' goal, he was willing to spare an Earther friend he made despite him being an enemy.

So like I said. If you're going to slam Flit for it, slam the Vagans for it as well. Or at the very least, stop acting like the Vagans have done nothing wrong because they sure as hell have. (this last paragraph goes to people in general, not a direct shot at monster)

[Znozzy]

Oh Flit, two wrongs doesnt make it right.

i'm loving the way Flit is developing, i just want to know when his hatred towards the Vagan will turn against him and how much it'll hurt him in the end.

cant wait for Gen3, i wonder what Asem will be up to, according to the card that was translated in another thread Flit quit the EF, i wonder if Asem will have a high ranking position in Gen3?

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

It's possible that Ezelcant wants Flit alive for some reason, so they wouldn't want him dead just yet.

Nah I rank it up to incompetence. There was no need for him to calmly walk up to Flit and co. He could've easily just blasted them with a single shot.

As for this whole genocide debate, guys, keep in mind: neither Vagan nor Flit are in the right. Genocide can't be condoned, but you can't give one a free pass over the other. Yes, what Flit wants is not healthy and that's something that needs to change. But keep in mind that Vagan, for all their tribulations on Mars, were only just murdering innocent civilians wherever they found them. Colony and colony, destroyed regardless of a Federation presence or not. They're no better than what Flit wants.

Both need to change. So if you're gonna give a free pass for one, give one to both. If you're gonna slam one for genocide, slam them both. To do otherwise is to just be hypocritical.

Exactly thank you for actually being able to read the posts

That makes it fair game for people to discuss now. If it never happens, that's fine. And I'll be glad to see that. But as of right now, Flit has made it clear that he won't settle for anything less than the annihilation of the Vagans. That doesn't mean the Vagans is any better, but it does mean that Flit may just turn out to be as bad as them if he continues on this path.

Except he won't. As someone else posted this is an ideological war. Flit tried capturing a Vagan and the guy committed suicide rather than be taken in alive.

The only way for this war to end is to eliminate Ezcelant or wipe out the Vagans (Which is not the answer) as they're literally brainwashed into following him to the end.

Genocide Flit is also wrong. Unfortunately this generation has only hardened his hatred. On top of his family and Yurin, he's now lost Grodek and Woolf. There aren't many who can stand up against him right now. If that wedding scene means anything it seems to hint Flit becoming even more distant from his family than he was already. I'm also worried about this purge he's going with. Getting rid of traitors and spies is fine, but how far will he go? Will it simply be people with concrete proof of dealing with the Vegans or will it be anyone who talks about peaceful negotiations or just disagrees with him? Flit is dangerously close to becoming one heck of an evil dictator. And yes Vegans have done terrible things (just so my position isn't confused).

I highly doubt it as he's not even partaking in the new Federation government. How well it works we'll have to see in AGE 3 but things are going to heat up.

The only sympathetic one we've seen thus far is Zeheart, and that's because he showed that he still had a heart--even though he believed in the Vagans' goal, he was willing to spare an Earther friend he made despite him being an enemy.

$50.00 says that Kio falls in love with a Vagan and serves as a bridge for the two sides.

On that matter about Zeheart does that mean Eczelant is on Earth or somewhere nearby?

[quagmire]

I see a Seed being pulled for the last arc.

Flit wants to kill all Vagen( Azrael/ Blue Cosmos). Eczelant wants to kill all Earthers( Patrick Zala). Kio, Zeheart, maybe Asemu, and co break away and fight both sides to stop the fighting and prevent genocide.

I see those three at least being critical to ending the war( though we need to see what kind of person Kio is and his resolve to fight) as they are all moderates in this war. With Flit and Eczelant being extremists hell bent on destroying each other.

[maplehurry]

Both need to change. So if you're gonna give a free pass for one, give one to both. If you're gonna slam one for genocide, slam them both. To do otherwise is to just be hypocritical.

I thought it's COMMON SENSE that vagan's wrong so that's there's no need to point out the sky is blue... ? Maybe it's just me...