2010-02-15, 21:44 | Link #6181 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I don't want to suspect Natuhi and Krauss either I just wanted to explain what the circles are drawn with. Just because they were the first to mention what could be used to make them doesn't mean they were to first to think of it.
It could also be mackerel if you want to go really early on, but I doubt that's sticky enough to look like mucus or paint. Edit: Kumasawa and Maria are my favorite circle artists though.
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2010-02-15, 23:03 | Link #6182 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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You think Kinzo had enough of those... fruits, I think they are... stored to make all that material used? I guess it's possible.
...Actually, although I never thought of that, I think that was supposed to be obvious. We do never see that letter again. |
2010-02-16, 03:35 | Link #6183 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I was also looking for alternate reasons why they went to the chapel in the first place. Um.. do you beleive Shannon really found that memo that said "chapel" after the 1st twilight? Because they show a scene with her finding a memo, but Genji doesn't mention it to Rosa. In fact I don't think it was ever mentioned again after that. It wasn't mentioned by anyone, not even the meta characters. So If that's a fictional event than the reason for going to the chapel just seems strange. This could show that the servants knew the chapel was unlocked the whole time though. If that's true though what would possess Genji to go to the chapel and report to Rosa about the strange thing he found if there was no memo? Why would anyone go out in a typhoon for that anyway? Go out into the storm because of a memo? Doesn't that seem strange? It would be one thing if it was a threatening letter that Shannon found, or if they said in the story that memos like that have been left before and that would give us a reason for believing they'd check it out because it's urgent, but nothing like that ever happens. There's no foreshadowing for it in that episode. Besides wouldn't you search the mansion and the guesthouse first to see if they might have come back? Episode 2 is supposed to be difficult right? Maybe this is why it's so hard. How can we make sense of who did the murders if we haven't even thought about other reasons for why the corpses were even found? Or even question what happened to make anyone find them? Isn't this important?
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Last edited by Judoh; 2010-02-16 at 04:25. |
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2010-02-16, 04:52 | Link #6184 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Ok, here’s my complete theory on episode 4:
Episode 4 Theory Here a brief summary for those who don’t want to read it all: Spoiler for ”Kill List”:
Spoiler for ”Additional comments”:
Please PM if you find type-o's
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2010-02-16, 05:01 | Link #6185 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Also I wonder if the liquid of the areca nut can last for long period of times and if it can resist under the rain.
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2010-02-16, 05:08 | Link #6186 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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The only problem I have with your first twilight Ssol is that for it to work Shannon and Kanon would have to be like mobsters trained by Al Capone. I don't see Kanon hiding shell casings. I don't see a motive for it either. That's a really extreme first twlight though. First six people are killed than the rest are drugged. I wonder if in your theory the epitaph would have any real relevance to the murders at all. I'm gonna read the whole thing, but DAMN. You have a wild imagination.
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2010-02-16, 10:59 | Link #6187 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Age: 31
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Of course Battler does not observe this so it is questionable I guess, but he does mention that at dawn he thinks that 'Rosa came in and fished around for something in Maria's bag', before learning anything about the chapel or the murder. (My idea of why - tweaked snip from idea of EP2 first twilight): The adults went into the chapel because 'Beatrice' appeared before them at night when they were gathered, and led them there, as she was stating that she is the alchemy counseller to the Ushiromiya family. She was providing proof of her position. There is evidence to suggest this due to Battler discovering three gold bars on the chapel table the following day when it is stated that Krauss only ever found one. This 'Beatrice' already knows the location of the gold. I thought that Rosa left early and hence why she wasn't killed, and this is also why she feels so uneasy about the whole chapel business. I think it's more interesting to also question Kyrie. (Perhaps both Rosa and Kyrie too) Spoiler for Kyrie:
About the "discord" letter, doesn't it only show up in the closed rooms when Maria is present? Both in EP1 and EP2. I have a feeling she's responsible...or it slips out her notebook or something... Last edited by Pinguma; 2010-02-16 at 11:22. |
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2010-02-16, 15:54 | Link #6188 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Kanon is the 9th killed. Now Battler sees George, Kumasawa and Gohda dead before he gets to the mansion to meet the suit-Beato. According to your theory, Kumasawa and Gohda don't die until after Battler meets Suit-Beato. But he already sees them hanging with a bullet in their heads in the shed before that. So Kumasawa, Gohda and George are all confirmed dead with Battler's sight by the time Battler gets to Suit-Beato. |
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2010-02-16, 16:03 | Link #6190 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Last edited by luckyssol; 2010-02-16 at 16:15. |
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2010-02-16, 17:09 | Link #6191 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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I don't think maria was a second twilight death in Ep4... I know the death order is hard to discern but even ignoring the events laid out by fantasy, she was with Battler to near the end. There's no evidence either way, but personally I got the impression that when Maria and Battler left the guest house the killing was further along than that.
Furthermore it leaves a Huuuuge gap between the first and second killing of the second twilight, unless George was still alive when Jessica called. Last edited by TDS; 2010-02-16 at 17:27. |
2010-02-16, 17:45 | Link #6192 | |
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Location: Classified
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2010-02-17, 03:05 | Link #6193 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Is there any rule saying that the twilight murders have to be in any particular order? Episode 4 is pretty chaotic I wonder if we could even really find a particular order for them to be in.
So for example as long as the people in those twlights die could something like the 5th 6th and 7th twilights happen before the 2nd? I don't think we really have to follow the epitaph in order for the murders, and I don't think the culprit necessarily does follow that order in every episode.
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2010-02-17, 15:23 | Link #6194 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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There is no reason to believe the order is as the game record says and indeed there is evidence that it is not the case in ep2. Of all the game records, I would be especially suspicious of ep4's. That said, it isn't impossible for it to have happened in that order, necessarily.
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2010-02-17, 16:40 | Link #6195 |
Kupo
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sleeping
Age: 32
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Ryu implied in an interview pre-EP6 that there was some significance or pattern to the twilights (something like "those who know the answer should be able to predict how EP5 pans out"), but given current opinions on the endgame "answer" and some hints given in EP6 I don't think that's what he was talking about anymore.
Makes you wonder why it's so...off sometimes, though.
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2010-02-17, 22:34 | Link #6196 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
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It's been a little while since I played ep 5, but I was so sure about this theory when I played it, that I went back and double checked.
In the Witch's Trial, they say that no one left the dining hall until 1:00 AM. However, this gives absolutely no alibi to Kanon/Shanon, who entered the dining hall at some point, right? They were free to commit murder before they entered the dining hall, right? I can't remember the time they entered the dining hall though. If they entered at a time the murder couldn't have occured (according to the witch's trial at least) then my theory fails.
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2010-02-17, 22:55 | Link #6197 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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2010-02-17, 22:56 | Link #6198 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Classified
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On a different note, is it possible for Beato to not enjoy the murders (IIRC Virgilia said this in red in EP5) and still have revenge as a motive? If it's not, and we assume that Beatrice is indeed the main culprit, then I have some speculation on the purpose of the bomb, or whatever it is that ends the game at midnight on the second day.
My train of thought went like this: Spoiler for my take on the bomb's role:
I may just be reinforcing the obvious, but I think that from this, we can rule out the motives of revenge and the gold. |
2010-02-17, 23:07 | Link #6199 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Based on Virgilia's corpse inspection, we can narrow down the time of death to between 7am and 12:30pm on October 5th. Was there any time during that period when the survivors split up, other than to get the tools to break into Kinzo's study?
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2010-02-17, 23:36 | Link #6200 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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If the murders were to occur it would need to be during the time everyone was in Kinzo's study. That means the most likely murderers are the victims themselves. |
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