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View Poll Results: Lolicon, lolicon. Ok or not? | |||
Yes. it's ok. There's no harm, it's just a drawing. | 36 | 42.35% | |
Don't care, or I'm on the fence about this. | 31 | 36.47% | |
No, it's hurtful to anime and/or real life children. | 18 | 21.18% | |
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll |
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2004-06-02, 13:42 | Link #41 |
Unfair
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Now that you mention it, I've edited my posts, must be tired o.O
And I never said I didn't agree about the fact about Rei : she seems to be quite a popular character in 4chan (must be the reason I hate her sooo much, she is overly overused!).
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2004-06-02, 14:13 | Link #42 |
Team the box!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Badside
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Loli is under 16. It's a lable given to the taboo of infatuation/love of a girl that is supposed te be too young. America, for example, considers anyone under 16 to be too immature for such a relationship. So that's where the line is. There is no minimum age when it's looked at this way.
There may be different types of lolicons who set their own minimum age so they can feel like they are better than the guys who like girls that are "too young" or something, I don't know. Rei counts as a loli. She was 15, right? I know the characters were all a specific age to pilot the Evas. I understand that it is debatable as Rei is about as physically mature as a character can get in anime. Appearance is the main trait of a loli character but depending on why the lolicon is a lolicon, a character said to be under age but looks completely mature counts too. If the reasons are less about young cuteness, and more of virginity or something. I suppose this can be argued forever as even people grouped together under the lable "lolicon" are all individuals and have their own ideas and reasons. |
2004-06-02, 14:40 | Link #43 |
the Iniquitous
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As I said in my first post, this is simple...pedophilia
for what all you've said you can say lolis are characters who look underage(sometimes too little, like seven year old >.<;;; ), and may or may not be actually underage; or characters who look sexually atractive, (like big breasts and accentuated curves) but are underage anyway I consider that both of this definitions belong to the "loli" genre. |
2004-06-02, 14:53 | Link #44 | |
Unfair
Join Date: Nov 2003
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And big breasts won't do it, it's exactly the opposite of the definition of loli
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2004-06-02, 15:22 | Link #45 | |
/Ultimate Magic Attack!!!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
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And I think some people set an age minimum not because "to feel better than others", but they need the girl to be mature enough to have some sexual appeal I guess... I know quite some people who adore Sakura of Card Captor Sakura (another character who helps define the term "loli" I guess), but don't have any interest in Mii of Popotan... BTW: Rei is 14. Last edited by dreamless; 2004-06-02 at 15:34. |
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2004-06-02, 15:28 | Link #46 |
Team the box!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Badside
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How is Rei's personality loli? That's a definition of loli, I've never heard. How does "no talk, no heart" equal loli? If Rei was 25 would she still be considered loli because of her personality? I would think cute, innocent, and/or slightly immature would be a loli personality.
I would think it should be appeanence > personallity > age. A character that appears 30 with a youngish personallity wouldn't constitute loli, to me. If she looked just as young, too, then yes. |
2004-06-02, 19:33 | Link #49 | |
I refuse to die dammit!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK
Age: 47
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Cute, Young Looking, Innocent & Submissive. She does qualify some of those points but IMO Rei's personality is basically souless, reserved and subservient for the greater part of the Eva series, she's not especially "cute" in terms of catchphrases or other outgoing actions and shes not especially young looking (but does qualify) - So I would say that her personna tends rather to feed into another "complex" that quite a few people (read men for the most part) find attractive that of the "controllable" female who will submit to your every wish (and for some Rei fans out there I'm sure they have many......... ) I would say there has been a rise in this since the postfeminist movement and the blurring of gender roles epitomised by the rise of the "Ladette" culture only emphasises this, I for one personally can't really blame any guy for finding this appealing in the light of experiencing some pissed up binge drinking Ladette throwing up all over the place or screaming filth whilsting fighting any other ladettes who might be trying to get in her face, I mean guys do a bad enough job of this kind of activity themselves No wonder the demure restrained female "icon" gathers such a following.... Also an earlier poster in this thread by the name of "AnAlPedoFileMan" ? He must feel right at home in this thread! |
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2004-06-02, 19:57 | Link #51 | |
Team the box!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Badside
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Typically the term carries a criminal connotation. If you actual molest little kids, you're a pedophile. That's probably why other names like "lolita complex" are around. To dissasociate themselves from criminals very much hated by society. And I have no idea what your first sentence is supposed to say but not every lolicon would necessarily support child molestation, real or animated. |
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2004-06-03, 08:01 | Link #52 | ||
from head to heel
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 42
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Appearance matters a lot. Appearance, or the very loli-inspired image of such a character, is something that can be immediately discerned. |
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2004-06-04, 02:18 | Link #53 | |
model bliss
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
Age: 41
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According to Humbert Humbert, the age range for a nymphet was 9-14. Dolores was almost 13 when he met her, and 14 when he, um, bedded her (I'm guessing; like i said, he never stated it in clear terms) and that's my ten cents that nobody asked for |
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2004-06-04, 10:42 | Link #54 |
Disheartened and Retired
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 加拿大
Age: 37
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Just to add to Junko's comment, I've read the book and H. Humbert does have intercourse with Dolores. Actually, it was Dolores that made the move, not Humbert. Humbert wasn't Dolores' first, but Dolores was Humbert's first. The reason why Vladimir Nabokov wrote in a passive implied way is because he didn't want this book to be rated as a pornographic book. It wasn't meant to arouse. Maybe it was also done to avoid legal action, since direct evidence of intercourse with an underage girl wasn't found. Anyways it's a great book, #4 of 100 top books of this century (Modern Library's list). I have memorized the intro to this book, it's just that powerful. Keep a dictionary handy though .
Anyways back on topic. What is loli? Well Loli to me would be similar to tsurumaru's definition. Young in every sense of the word, inexperienced in life and in sex. Apparently there's games and videos involving underage "looking" girls. But I've heard that they slap on a sticker that says "all characters are over 18". But does that work? Man, some girls I see in those games (from CG images) are blatantly underage, even under 10 years old. What's next? Toddler-complex? How young is too young? |
2004-06-04, 14:03 | Link #55 | |
the Iniquitous
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2004-06-04, 14:14 | Link #56 | |
Unfair
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Or else if you liked rape game, would this make you someone who would rape every girl who you'll encounter? There are lot of arts that can be taken wrong, but it isn't because one like it, that this person will do it ; and this apply to any sort of hentai including the most disgusting ones (up to taste of course).
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2004-06-04, 15:25 | Link #57 | |
Evangelist of the Kazoo
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: AnimeSuki Forums
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My view of lolicon is basically this: if you're attracted to Sakura from Cardcaptor Sakura, you're a lolicon. I don't even know if it's a noun, you just are. |
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2004-06-04, 17:55 | Link #58 | |
the Iniquitous
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I suppose if you see it from another perspective less controversial it could be understood more easily. You kill a lot of people in games, sometimes extremly realistic, and you most surely will never kill someone in real life, but nevertheless you enjoy it doing it in a game. So the same with lolicons, they'll never have sex in real life with a kid, but nevertheless they enjoy it in the game, manga, anime etc. and that fits the definition of pedophile perfectly, they are sexually atracted to children, period. If its not clear enough i'll just state this: I never said that lolicons rape kids in real life, never, not in any post in this thread, and if any of you thought I said that is because your definition of a pedophile is not the same as mine (and dictionary.com ) |
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2004-06-04, 18:09 | Link #59 |
Team the box!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Badside
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Would it be considered pedophilia if the person only looked underage but actually was not?
I think most agree that would still be lolicon. They are slightly different terms. Just because you like young looking cute girls in anime doesn't mean you want to have sex with them or see them in sexual situations, either. If you kill people in games, that doesn't make you a murderer, an attempted murderer, or someone conspiring to murder. Being attracted to young "virtual girls" doesn't automatically make you a pedophile, either. |
2004-06-04, 18:48 | Link #60 | |||
/Ultimate Magic Attack!!!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
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Also we should distinguish the people who just likes some underage girls in animes from those who enjoy hentai games with underage girls. For example, Yuzuyu in Aishiteruze Baby is definitely a loli, and many people like this character without any sexual intention (I shudder at the idea of someone who can get sexually attracted to Yuzuyu ) I think people who enjoy hentai games with underage girls are as different from pedophiles as people enjoy FPS games different from serial killers. while people who like some underage girls in animes without any sexual intentions is a completely different matter altogether. I mean, do you have to be sexually attracted to a female character if you like her in an anime? I don't think so. I can like a female character as much as I can like a male character without anything sexual involved. Last edited by dreamless; 2004-06-04 at 19:00. |
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