Total Eclipse - General Anime Discussion

[Sheba]

KGB will totally buy Yuuya telling them that he only followed the White Rabbit loli so he could have a tea party with her and the teddy bear.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The anti-americanism of this anime had been blown out of proportion as far as I could observe. Most of time, we get the "BUT! It's cliche!" card.

EDIT:

Whoever thought of that old movie by Clint Eastwood and starring himself when the engineer told Yuuya to think Japanese, if he want to fly a japanese TSF right, raise your hand.

*raises hand* I think it's the only film of the book that's so awesome, the book's author accepts it as canon, wrote a sequel based partly on the book and partly on the movie, and retconned the Firefox design to follow the movie.

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

*raises hand* I think it's the only film of the book that's so awesome, the book's author accepts it as canon, wrote a sequel based partly on the book and partly on the movie, and retconned the Firefox design to follow the movie.

Ah! So that's what pinged in my head when I heard that line. I knew it sounded somehow familiar...

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Jarmel

Yui is definitely giving me the "Japanese are a superior race" vibe.

You realize she's a typical samurai breed? It's not so much an issue of nation dick waving so much as the characters all have their issues....Yui has a her pride and Yuuya is well...Yuuya's is obvious...such hostility...


But I still love Inia nonetheless...

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Ah! So that's what pinged in my head when I heard that line. I knew it sounded somehow familiar...

Hah! I still got the hardcopy of that book somewhere. Belonged to my father...

[orion]

Originally Posted by Enternal

Really? I'm getting the "Japanese are infeior. Yui, you are a Japanese and therefore you are inferior". Remember, due to what Yuuya experienced as a child, he's trying to throw away his Japanese side.

No Yui emphasized second generation Japanese and then went on about Imperial Japan blah, blah, blah. He's actually half Japanese by ethnicity and American by nationality so Imperial Japan has nothing to do with the conversation. It's implying she thinks that Japan is superior.

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by orion

No Yui emphasized second generation Japanese and then went on about Imperial Japan blah, blah, blah. He's actually half Japanese by ethnicity and American by nationality so Imperial Japan has nothing to do with the conversation. It's implying she thinks that Japan is superior.

I think you are putting too much agro into this. She wants him to be proud of his Japanese ancestry. He doesn't want to have anything to do with the Japanese, or be recognized as one. Since they are not talking to each other at this point, they both have issues.

In the MLA world, Japan actually has the most respect for America, and vice versa, due to their efforts in assisting each other. Its just there are points of conflict due to culture and self-interest, which is why the UN forces are normally where both ends meet. Direct interaction with each other's polity is generally taken only for official purposes, and any 'lost' of face in those are looked down upon by both populace.

So while the general citizen has a moderate view of the other's country viewpoint, the soldiers know the other side has good people willing to lay down their lives for theirs.

Anyway, look at the Mil Tac thread for more info if you want to know more. Some people have drawn good comparisons. The anime can't show much in a 30 min episode, and this is still the beginning.

[Miraluka]

Still, she is doing it wrong way.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Still, she is doing it wrong way.

It's true. She should just kick his ass. But never fear. It seems the ass whooping is coming next episode. ^__^

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's true. He should just kick her ass. But never fear. It seems the ass whooping is coming next episode. ^__^

Yeah , I'm looking forward to see that .

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Yeah , I'm looking forward to see that .

You seriously think he can beat her? Even for an anime-only viewer like me it's pretty obvious she's gonna make him eat his own ass.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I expect him to get better and more skilled at some point, but I'm pretty sure right now he has no chance.

[sikvod00]

I assumed from the emoticons that Wilfriback knows Yui is going to destroy Yuuya, and he actually isn't looking forward to seeing it.

[galdr]

Yuuya could probably win if its Raptor vs Takemikazuchi. Since I doubt he improves that much in 1 episode, he will probably still suck at using Japanese TSFs.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

I assumed from the emoticons that Wilfriback knows Yui is going to destroy Yuuya, and he actually isn't looking forward to seeing it.

Oh well, if that's the case just ignore everything I said.

[sikvod00]

By the way, is Yuuya really the only pilot there with no actual experience fighting BETA's?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

By the way, is Yuuya really the only pilot there with no actual experience fighting BETA's?

That's what it seems. Chobi and the other dude seem to have experience at the very least.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's true. She should just kick his ass. But never fear. It seems the ass whooping is coming next episode. ^__^

He'll probably do Ok for a bit, but then start complaining about how sensitive the controls are, and then get caught in some swift strafing maneuver by Yui. And then she'll kick his ass, yes.

If executed well, it could be pretty funny.

Edit: Mecha is at its best when you have funny little squabbles between an ace pilot and a superior. Like Amuro Ray/Bright Noa, or Madoka/Tadokoro.

[sikvod00]

Ah, OK. I was thinking all the pilots who came in representing different nations were noobs in that respect and Yui was just unfairly singling him out solely because of his mixed ethnicity/nationality (obviously that's still a reason). But that knowledge really changes my perspective. Yeah, even though Yui has been on his ass, he really does need to be dropped a few pegs. Better to be humiliated and insulted and learn from your mistakes than to be utterly destroyed by a BETA within a matter of seconds.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

He'll probably do Ok for a bit, but then start complaining about how sensitive the controls are, and then get caught in some swift strafing maneuver by Yui. And then she'll kick his ass, yes.

I actually would like a fight between his new mecha that was just delivered against Yui's golden death machine (the one shown at the end of the OP).

That way he wouldn't complain that it's the mecha's fault he sucks.

[Tk3997]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It makes some sense to me that Yui would perceive Yuuya as this shallow pilot who thinks he's "hot stuff" when he knows nothing about the horrors that the BETA can inflict.

I'd say he knows plenty unless we stupidly assume US training includes NO information about the alien swarm ravaging the earth and killing billions. Not having seen them first hand isn't really that much of a determent given how rock stupid they are. Honestly the BETA are so retarded good simulation should be pretty much the same as facing them in combat. They're not innovative, they're not adaptive, they're not clever.

Yuuya meanwhile has reason to resent the Japanese side of his heritage (due to all the grief it caused him growing up), as others have pointed out on this thread.

Well that and Yui being a HUGE bitch.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

You realize she's a typical samurai breed? It's not so much an issue of nation dick waving so much as the characters all have their issues....Yui has a her pride and Yuuya is well...Yuuya's is obvious...such hostility...

Yeah what a hostile guy tries to do his duty, gives up advantages to others to avoid fights, puts up with Yui's shit constantly and gets along with most people beside her. Such a rebel, so mean! Yeah surely it's not the fact Yui is a bigoted bitch that results in friction, na TOTALLY on Yuuya.

Let’s just count the blindingly unprofessional and dishonest aspects.

Spoiler for Yui is a Stupid Bitch:

1-Treating her subordinate with utter contempt when he’s fulfilling all requirements.

Yuuya is doing his job and doing as he’s told, this is ALL that military discipline requires. No regulation says “and though shall love your assignment to a backwater during war time” You can’t force someone to like a position and attempting to do so is virtually always a bad idea, and unprofessional. If he’s doing his job STFU up and do yours.

Yuuya is showing exemplary professionalism by putting up with her bullshit. He’s not rising to the bait by and large, he’s doing his job, and he’s following orders. The fact that even other people are surprised he’s not struck her given how obviously she’s provoked him is rather telling.

2- She’s committing outright infractions against any sane conduct regulations and is a racist.

Can you imagine if a White Lieutenant told a mixed race soldier he was “embarrassment to Caucasians" That would fucking END a career so fast the officer’s neck might snap from the whiplash. One breath of that from Yuuya with the supporting witnesses should have her terminated immediately and reassigned. The fact he apparently just puts up with it and keeps quiet and does his job is showing the bitch FAR more respect then she deserves.

Also this isn’t any kind of lighthearted ribbing like calling someone a bumpkin or the like. That’s an outright direct insult to a person racial heritage insinuating there not living up to some stereotypical image of said heritage. The fun part is he’s acting rather more like the idealized Japanese then SHE is, as he’s gritting his teeth and doing his duty despite a vindictive and petty tyrant lording over him for little discernible reason, but her own festering ego.

3-Yuuya’s criticism of the Japanese TSF are entirely valid and admitted as much in universe.

A finky machine barely under control is a terrible design, and this is shit they should be looking to ELIMINATE in a new model. Not embracing due to some cultural jingoism. Yui comes off looking like a nationalist zealot while Yuuya appears to be looking at things from a rational military perspective as an easier to control and pilot machine will speed pilot training, reduce accidents, and IMPROVE combat defectiveness by allowing the pilot to just FLY not worry about keeping the machine in check.

An example that comes to mind is the F6F Hellcat in World war II. It was an unremarkable fighter of middling performance in all areas EXCEPT that it was legendary easy to fly even at the edge of its performance and rugged. This allowed even fairly average pilots to push it safely and reduced losses which in actual combat resulted in better performance. The pilot focused on the fight NOT keeping his aircraft under control or worrying it would fall apart on him. Nominally equal or superior Japanese machines were repeatedly trounced by it do to their unreliable mechanicals, poor electronic systems (yes this mattered even in WWII), weak build and a poorly thought out focus on a very limited sort of maneuverability. (Basically flat turn rate).

It would appear that in Muv-Luv the Japanese learned very little from WWII.

This is also the ENTIRE point of modern fly by wire systems. If the Japanese TSF are unstable and require active pilot work to keep functional that’s a DESIGN FLAW plain and simple. The control system is incompetently designed and no up to spec, as modern computers should be able to keep the machine stable and simply allow the pilot to focus on the fight. The Japanese seem to have come to blindly accept the idiocy of requiring a pilot to fight his machine for control in some misguided “warrior spirit" bullshit Yuuya as an outsider sees it for the stupidity it is and calls them on it.

Yui then resorts to nonsensical bullshit about how old pilots made due with worse, as if this somehow excuses the bad design. This is like arguing that we should accept a modern car without seatbelt or airbags because “old drivers survived without those”. Yes some of them survived, but scores also died because they lacked them. Yes older pilots made due with inferior TSF, but scores died because of that inferiority. This is why we’re building new ones that are supposed to perform better in all aspects you stupid bitch.

Why don’t you just go run at some BETA with a bloody Katana then? It was good enough for your ancestors after all.

Also acting like the machine doesn’t matter portrays an ignorance so profound one has to question her sanity. Blaming an inferior piece of equipment for failure can be an excuse, but it can also be an entirely justifiable one. If Yui was in charge of an exercise were an F-15s fought F-22 she would presumably berate the F-15 pilot for failing to win because of their inferior machine, and also ignoring that until two days before he was an F-16 pilot. (Ignoring for a moment that in reality retraining between fighters takes weeks if not months…). Probably frothing about them lacking ‘warrior spirit’ or such some such insanity.

It brings to mind a quote by the leading Jet ace post World War II Epstein when lamenting the switch over to 4th generation fighters with fly by wire systems: “You are not flying F-16, F-16 flies itself from its computer. You are only one of many inputs to the computer of the F-16. Me myself, as a pilot, I need the feelings. I need to enjoy the flight, and in F-16… you miss it. It’s not exactly the same. With the Mirage every flight is enjoyable, F-16 you can have unbelievable achievements, but the feeling is not the same. ”

This kind of wistful nostalgia appears to be the driving force behind Japanese TSF development going by Yui's nonsense, so no wonder their stuff gets plowed in the ass by modern US units like the F-22. And God forbid a test pilot likely brought in specifically to generate outside opinion and ideas question your dogma, clearly the proper course isn’t to consider his input. (Since you know that’s presumably why he was brought in on this JOINT PROJECT) No the proper response is to try and brainwash him into your backward way of thinking and reprimand him for not drinking the kool-aid with glee.

Actually given military bureaucracy regarding weapons procurement that’s not entirely unrealistic, but that doesn’t make it less stupid.

4- Yui is also something of a lair
The main Japanese TSF up until perhaps a year or two before this time are slightly modified F4 and F-15s AMERICAN UNITS. Probably BECAUSE they’re forgiving and easier to fly for the general TSF pilot then the finky and overwrought home models that require above average skill just to make controllable; because their designers are morons. She was flying an updated F-4 in her flashback sequence making the entire thing even more outrageous and hypocritical.

She though appears determined to make the next main fighter a twitchy hard to control mess that will kill pilots both in the inevitable training accidents and in combat as novices fight to control the machine instead of fighting the enemy, but hey who cares if we kill scores of valuable pilots if the handful that have the excesses of capability to keep it under control might glean SLIGHTLY more performance out of it? Design for the 1% not the 99% that’s a great model for wide scale military procurement!

It reminds me of the Me-109 really in the hands of a Hartman it was deadly with its reasonable speed and agility, and excellent climb rate making it a formidable foe throughout the war. In the hands of a novice though it was a death trap prone to uncontrollable departures if pushed even slightly too far, short ranged and unable to sustain damage, and extremely difficult to control during approaches and ground maneuvering. It killed SCORES of novices before they could gain the needed flight time to even partially master it and even the aces themselves lamented its vices in regards to having to try and train pilots on it in an increasingly desperate war situation.

And the German situation is fitting because we know at this time the war is not exactly going great and the supply of candidates is dwindling. This should make having the machine be easy to control and fly even MORE important, as the overall skill of pilots is likely to continue to degrade as more marginal candidates are accepted and training times reduced. This is a bleak perspective as it more or less acknowledges you’re losing the war, but if you hope to prolong it enough to find some kind of silver bullet to win with it’s the kind of logical and rational assessment that’s needed.

Not the idiotic romanticizing inherent in “man mastering machine” and “fighting just short of being out of control”

5- She’s also an idiot regarding training against BETA

Yeah the BETA are real hard to predict this is why it’s impossible to simulate there tactics and… OH WAIT. There is nothing “beyond our ability to predict” about “massive frontal attack with overwhelming numbers” indeed this is about the easiest tactic in the universe to predict. The BETA are rock stupid, unintelligent, and extremely predictable. They are not cunning foes; they don’t constantly field new units, they don’t infiltrate, and they don’t hide their numbers. They simply bash against defenses and die in droves until they win or are all dead.

The Bugs in the SST Cartoon series are roughly tens time as intelligent and adaptive. Rolling out more new strains and tactics in probably about three years then the BETA did in thirty. They also enslaved local populations for labor and soldiers, utilized shape shifters for infiltration, actively targeted important people for abduction to learn their secrets, and laid ambushes and traps repeatedly. When the enemy from a cartoon show meant for kids around 12-13 years old is massively more intelligent then your foe, trying to hype them up based on there tactical acumen comes off as rather laughable.

BETA are dangerous cause there’s lots of them and for no other reason whatsoever.

So seriously cut the crap Yui, your squad pretty much wiped to a pack of animals hard as that might be to accept. The BETA are not tactical geniuses and your blowhard nonsense to the contrary won’t change that. They're as predictable as the sunrise and just as easy to prepare for, so stop acting like it’s impossible to train for them, it’s not. In fact they’re so retarded that training with the tech we saw in the episode is probably a more or less exact approximation of combat minus the dying.

BETA aren’t going to suddenly pull new and novel tactics at you in the field. They’re just going to swarm toward you to be mowed down in droves until they all die or you do. This is not hard to simulate; actually just go play some Alien Swarm or any other “horde mode” game if you want a fairly accurate simulation. Fairly stupid enemies rush toward you on mass and are only a threat due to numbers; actually most horde modes are probably harder since the enemies often all have guns, some have special abilities, and they often know how to take cover.

6- In closing Yui is a bitch.

Seriously worst character in the show by a MILE spiteful, arrogant, and egotistical she has no apparent redeeming qualities whatsoever. All made even worse by the fact that it’s all presented in such a way that we seem to be supposed to be swayed by her raging idiocy and arrogance. Yeah no all I want to see is an actual professional officer slap the bitch Patton style and tell her to get her shit together or get gone. Having to put up with her is seriously hashing my enjoyment of this show to be honest.