2010-12-23, 04:02 | Link #703 |
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I think we simply got a disagreement on how to define "fake". In essence we mean the same thing. Of course their lips touched, but it was a "fake" kiss, because it didn't have the meaning a "real" kiss would have. I think the vast majority of people understood what I meant.
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2010-12-23, 08:07 | Link #707 |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Episode 10 Commentary
Commentators: Nakajima Megumi, Endou Aya (Sheryl) and Kawamori Shouji (who played the director (^^)) As always, paraphrasing rather than directly quoting, with summaries and my own thoughts in [brackets] ==== Eto...firstly, the way that Megumi-chan and Endou-san say "Hajimaru you~"...can someone tell me what that's a reference to? I swear I've heard that singsong tone somewhere before... ==== Why Macross Zero? Kawamori: There was always going to be a movie within a show in Frontier, the only question was what it would be. And the producer said that it'd be nice to use something already created. ------But in the end, it fit perfectly (what with the triangle and all). ------Though it was completely chance that the Zero BD came out during Frontier's run, we hadn't planned it at all. Endou: Really? Are you sure you didn't? At the time, I thought that you were really sneaky, because I'd borrowed Zero ------and watching one makes you want to watch the other, to try and see who appears in each one. Kawamori: true, the things you see in Zero pop up here an there in Frontier Endou: It's like an adult past-time, isn't it? Looking for these kinds of things Kawamori: I like looking for these kinds of things myself, so I'll never say whether it's right or wrong (for Macross). After all, isn't it fun when you suddenly spot something on a rewatch years later? [...Kawamori-sensei, that's so unfair!] ====== The "Acting or not" issue comes up from 4:18 (when Ranka is talking to Alto on the phone) Nakajima: It often slips my mind that Alto was in the acting world. Kawamori: You know, he might be acting all the time... Endou: No, don't say that! (Kawamori laughs) Endou: come on tell us! when is he acting?! Kawamori: Well, even Alto himself sometimes doesn't know when he's acting and when he's not, that's why he's afraid of being in the acting world. ------though that's also true of actors in our world. Endou: Characters similar to oneself are the most difficult to do (in some ways) Kawamori: It's like 'where does the role end and you start?' Endou: Are you creating something or not? It's hard to know so... [...don't know about that... Kawamori-sensei, you are EVIL!!] ====== [Based on Alto's line @~3:50 they enter an interesting discussion about acting here. ("Think not and you will captivate your audience, think and you will fail [sorry, I don't have a sub on me at present, so this is my translation, based on what they mean by "hana" (the flower). The original phrase, meaning something like "Keep secrets and you will captivate your audience, keep them not and you will fail", is from a famous Noh master from the Muromachi period (1400s), Zeami Motokiyo])] One of the examples Kawamori-sensei brings up is a role as an elderly person. Kawamori: the thing is, people might act as if they're weak, hobbling and bent over etc, but a real elderly person would actually be trying to act younger - it's just that they're not as sprightly anymore. ====== 8:20 where Alto's past as a Kabuki star is revealed Kawamori: it wasn't in the show, but as a child, Michel actually saw Alto once, Endou/Nakajima: Ehhhhhh!! Kawamori: and Klan got angry at him. Endou/Nakajima: Ehhhhhhhhhh!! I want to see that! Let's do something with this! [LOL - I want to see it too!!!] ====== 9:00 So who was the director thinking of having Alto play... Nakajima: Alto is beautiful, but Shin isn't really beautiful, more, a really passionate person, so not Shin, right? Kawamori: an important role probably, but not Shin. And let's just move on. Endou/Nakajima: Ehhhh!! But now we're really curious!! 10:00 Is Ranka's rise too quick? Kawamori: I asked people in the industry, whether someone's life could change in a week. They basically said that three days was enough - so it really doesn't feel real. [and Nakajima actually experienced this IRL, thanks to Macross] 12:55 Endou: Alto's - Nakamura-kun's "shi..! tteta sa" is super cute! [basically, they thought that Nakamura had Alto's agitation down pat] 14:40 Brera saving the day [Both Megumi-chan and Endou-san thought that Ranka and Brera would end up together!] Nakajima: she should just have Brera protect her! [After all, Alto's always getting his a** handed to him, first by Ozma, then here by the hydra and Brera] Kawamori: but he's an amateur, In the real world, that's what happens. ====== 16:50 Ranka talking to Bobby Nakajima: it's like talking to one's mother, Bobby's really motherly Endou: like an older woman Kawamori: Once we decided on using Macross Zero, it was like 'ah, we can put a kiss in' => Sheryl kissing Alto 17:35 [the 'rivals' have an amusing exchange here] Nakajima: Bobby's "you haven't really experience real love before, have you?" was like a dagger through my heart. I mean, to have BOBBY of all people say that to her! when he himself is in a love that will never come to fruition! Endou: that's the most difficult to bear, a one-sided love Nakajima: then this (the kiss) straight after that! Endou: I'm really sorry! Kawamori: (laughs) Ranka really doesn't like to lose, does she? Kawamori: It was pretty difficult finding someone who could be harsh, but who could also bring out Sheryl's cuteness in scenes like this one. Just touching on the romance then... [From 19:00, the three of them enter a discussion that seems at odds with some of the opinions on this forum, if the Romance thread is anything to go by. They all think that Ranka is actually quite a STRONG person, capable of standing on her own two feet, and most importantly, DECISIVE.] Kawamori: It's like her foundation is strength Endou: a natural strength Nakajima: she's quite manly (in some ways) [In fact, they consider Alto to be the most childish of the three, with Ranka being the most manly. => Alto's not really ready to be in love with anyone!] ====== 20:50 Ozma makes the Ranka-Mao Nome link obvious Kawamori: the timing of this revelation was quite a challenge to decide - it couldn't be too early etc 21-- [They discuss how much this scene has changed from Zero. For those of you that have that OVA on you, what do you think? Note also that Kobayashi Sanae (Cathy) was actually Sara Nome in that OVA ^^] And the director @22:50 Kawamori: It wasn't requested - rather, I told them not to - but the staff of Frontier basically drew me into the movie Nakajima: It's a show of their love for you, not that they're bullying you Kawamori: Well, don't know about that... ~23:11 Endou/Nakajima; Sheryl is so cool here! Kawamori: as if she's looking forward to the challenge (of having Ranka as a 'competitor')
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Last edited by karice67; 2010-12-29 at 06:22. Reason: I'm an idiot - kouen as in public performance, not park! |
2010-12-23, 08:42 | Link #708 | |
Minmay Guard
Join Date: May 2009
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Thank you again, Karice. Very cool stuff!
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Pfft. Whatever, Kawamori. In the original Macross TV series, they ALSO had a movie (starring Minmay) with a director, named "Sho Blackstone," who was based on (and voiced by!) the chief director of Macross, Noburo Ishiguro. Not only that, but a disheveled character based on Kawamori shows up a number of times in SDFM TV and DYRL, and usually gets killed each time. I don't see how this is any different.
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2010-12-23, 09:16 | Link #710 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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No, he was voiced by Kouichi Sawaguchi, who doesn't appear to have an ANN profile.
And I suppose this is as good a place as any to point out that, according to the Universal Bunny liner notes, "Gira Gira Summer" was the song that Sheryl wrote for Bird Human. No wonder it was rejected as not fitting the style of the movie! EDIT: I guess it's ALSO worth pointing out that this is the ONLY episode of Frontier to list Hiroshi Ohnogi in the credits.
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2010-12-23, 09:20 | Link #711 | ||||
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2010-12-23, 09:30 | Link #712 | |
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Age: 48
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It is only beginning with episode 15 that this process is reversed and Ranka begins to abandon her commitment to Frontier as a whole and begins to focus all her being on wanting Alto as a boyfriend. So at that particular stage, it is no wonder that the two VA's think that Ranka is a strong character, although I'd argue that Sheryl is still much more forceful.
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2010-12-23, 09:37 | Link #713 | |
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2010-12-23, 10:06 | Link #714 |
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It could be, but as the ideas promulgated just don't square at all with what was shown in the show ( and of course we could be dealing with a case of the intent being different from the result ), I remain somewhat doubtful.
If it was created after the end of the show, they must have known of the general criticism Rankas portrayal received. It just seems that there is a disconnect between their commentary and what they had to know was a negative perception of Rankas force of personality. My best answer to that condondrum is that the commentary was done before the latter part of the series and as such the VA's weren't aware of what was to come. Kawamori, OTOH...
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2010-12-23, 10:27 | Link #715 | |
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As for "general criticism" of Ranka, I think it depends on WHERE that general criticism was lodged. Or, more specifically, WHAT LANGUAGE it was lodged in. Most of the Ranka hatred I've seen comes from the western and Chinese fans, who I don't think are even a blip on the radar screen for the creators of Macross F. I'm not positive about that, of course, but that's the picture I'm getting from talking with Macross fans in Tokyo. And, of course, my perceptions are filtered through my viewpoint, so I can't say my view has any more validity than yours.
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2010-12-23, 10:38 | Link #716 |
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True enough on all accounts. I'd check back with Tak for more certainty of the Japanese internet response to Ranka at the time, but it seems he has moved on from this board ( which is a shame. ).
If I remember his comments from back then correctly, though, Ranka wasn't being let off easy by the Japanese fans, either. Maybe someone else who is still here was reading those boards at the time and could shed some light on this?
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2010-12-23, 10:45 | Link #717 | ||
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Same here Can never have enough of them ^^ Quote:
===== Spoiler for set of quotes on Ranka...:
Macross Zero's BD was released on August 22, between the TV broadcasts of ep 20 (Aug 21) and ep 21 (Aug 28). Endou Aya seems to have borrowed the BD before they recorded this commentary, so I'd say the earliest it'd have been recorded would be sometime around the screening of ep 21? By this stage, the cast recordings for all of the episodes would definitely have been completed, so yes, I dare say they were all aware of future developments in the series. I'd hazard a guess that they see Ranka's decisions not to be used as a tool, and to leave Frontier as part of her DECISIVE character. I don't know whether they'll ever touch on it again (the relevant episodes don't have any commentary...) but we'll see when we get there. ===== I do want to post the very last snippet from the ep 25 commentary before the 2nd movie comes out though, so... It's Kawamori, Nakamura, Endou Aya and Megumi-chan. In signing off, they talk about what they hope to see in the movie: Spoiler for well, for length and moving ahead, I guess...:
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2010-12-23, 10:55 | Link #718 | |
A blast from the past
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Of course, I also agree with the notion that Ranka's criticism may not be and may never have been anywhere near as aggressive in Japan as it was here and in other forums. On that note, I think the differences of opinion bear much more validity, as no single side can claim full validity, after all.
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2010-12-23, 11:06 | Link #720 | ||
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And it may be that Ranka hate has merely died down. I dunno. He's listed for "scripting assistance" and the credit comes immediately before the "THANKS TO MACROSS ZERO STAFF" credit. So yeah. Quote:
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macross frontier, re-watch |
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