AnimeSuki Forums

DuoRanger · 2012-04-18, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

I wonder why doesn't Nonou recognize Kabuto... maybe that person is really a different person??

Brainwashing

Midnight Commander · 2012-04-18, 09:56

I really enjoyed this chapter, it was nice to see certain old prominent faces that really shaped this manga from the beginning. The scene with Danzou sitting and his root ninja at his side was very badass. Orochimaru's demenor was as sinister as ever, and I guess we know his "threat" to take the orphan's children wasn't just a threat --he'll glady be taking them regardless. Orochimaru's entrance from the water was actually pretty brilliant: It shows Kabuto's face as he has trouble with his identity, and slowly his face's reflection starts exhibiting Oro's features starting with the eyes; pretty symbolic. It will be quite nice to see that scene animated, with some appropriate music. I also think Orochimaru being in root is interesting, because he doesn't seem to be emotionless like the others, just heartless. I wonder if root conditioning is partly why he is so ruthless, that is, if they even had to bother to nulify his emotions?

Looking at Danzou's conversation with Nonou, it seems as if he has just used genjitsu on her by the way he seems to have clutched his eye --and her sudden acceptance of their proposal. Perhaps it took alot out of him early on, as he probably wasn't as used to it back then; in the summit it he was perfectly composed.

SeanQ · 2012-04-18, 10:44

More Orochi hardcore pedo ~ 5 yr long wait for his boy.

Lendial · 2012-04-18, 10:50

im trying hard to care about kabuto but i just cant muster the ducks to do it.

Bonta Kun · 2012-04-18, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lendial

im trying hard to care about kabuto but i just cant muster the ducks to do it.

Same here, this back story has it's interesting points and all but still doesn't make me care for Kabuto and his life story.
Oro is probably the only good thing thing here atm but even then I couldn't really care unless the old chap actually comes back to the main plot to cause destruction and chaos.

Back to the war please!

octaviahawk · 2012-04-18, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detective-san

Orochimaru continues to be a creep beyond the grave.

LMAO, true, true. It was really great to see old unfriendly faces: Oro, Danzo, looking bad ass as ever. Is it just me, or is a young Danzo totally...like...hot?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucasd

How nice of Oro to manipulate Kabuto into joining root. Oro always get what he wants, excluding Uchihas

And thus, the love story between Kabuto and Orochimaru begins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lendial

im trying hard to care about kabuto but i just cant muster the ducks to do it.

Here, I'll lend you some of my ducks *quack quack quack*

All in all, a surprisingly good chapter! Thank the gods.

Methuselah · 2012-04-18, 12:04

Why?! Why is Kishi-baka trying to justify every single antagonist in the story?! They are monsters! MONSTERS!

Orochimaru would kidnap men, women, children, and dissect and experiment on them!

Danzo assassinates others, inspire revolt in other nations, sockets Uchiha eyes into his arm, tries to take over Kohana.

Kabuto is no better. After Garaa's arc, it is shown that Kabuto regularly collects bodies of children ranging from 8 to 16 year olds and seal them in his scroll. Hell even Orochimaru broke a sweat listening to Kabuto's "anxiety" for not having a 13 year old boy!

WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I CARE ABOUT ANY OF THESE FUCKS. STOP WASTING CHAPTERS! :O I'm starting to feel like Kishi-baka is running out of ideas and is stalling.

Ero-Senn1n · 2012-04-18, 12:42

Orochimaru was already banished from Konoha by the 3rd or not? If Kabuto is now about 20 years old (does the data book tell his age?), then this all had to happen about 15 years before now, which is around the time of the death of the 4th hokage, which means this had to be after Orochimaru had to run away. Which means that Orochimaru had free access to Konoha's resources through Danzou, in exchange he helped Danzou to become stronger. I guess at this time Orochi already implanted the 1st hokage's cells into Danzou, but in this chapter it really seemed like the Uchiha eyes were not yet implanted. We see no metal cover on him, which is needed to conceal the eyes from sensing ninja like byakugan users. So i guess this was probably just before the kyuubi attack and the Uchiha massacre, where its most likely that Danzou obtained all the eyes which Orochi will soon implant into his arm. I wonder if he had already Shisui's eye under the bandage, if so then he could also easily control the spy woman or Kabuto. For example Orochi asked Danzou to do him a favor and make Kabuto join them, because when he healed Orochimaru he realized how talented Kabuto is, so Orochi wanted him for his experiments.

The only thing that doesn't yet fit into this story is Sasori, how did he get a hold of Kabuto, maybe he did so when Sasori was paired with Orochi because he had disagreements with Orochi.

haegar · 2012-04-18, 14:00

I'll admit that at the very least instead of just retconning a one chapter background in and the killing Kabuto, Kishi is taking his time with this one and the flashback of Kabuto's past at least is handled in earnest.

However, I still stand by my not likeing the background that he is given, AT ALL.

So lemme flashback, too: At first I was annoyed with Kabuto for getting more and more screentime and power over the course of the war. The whole Edo-Tensei business had this whiff of asspull... And then later it seemed only a matter of time till either Itachi or Sasuske show up to end him.

And there Kishi suprised us nicely by staying coherent with Kabuto's powergain, he pitted both Itachi and Sasuske against him and yet he seems a decent match. And I rly like how he explained that enormous powerup via Snakesage, that was good in many a ways: Naruto's sage mode is less exceptional, but still is a cool thing. The very notion that a "sage" doesn't have to be inherently good, but that there can also be somebody using natural energy at so high a level precisley for being a sage of evil I thought was great.

And I felt that Kabuto's character as I read him mixed well with that: Whatever psychfuck had happened to him in the past under Oro or Sasori, he had passed through and left behind his state of emotional trauma and trying to emulate Oro's greatness and instead decided to pursue his own, surpassing his former mentor. And being the snake sage fits that so nicely. He had discarded emotion for power completely, or so it seemed, to become the cold calculating snake. And that would have added to the manga imho as one of the main villains not having the villain face cause he had a hard childhood but rather because after a troubled live, he conciously threw all that human shit away and married power itself instead in the guise of the path of the evil sage.

Like that, I was willing to accept him as a potential wench in the plans of either of the other main players. Like that he could have moved on to seriously interfere with the Kages, with Naruto, with Sasuske and even with Madara himself ... because like that he would ahve shown a dedication to raw power itself like few others.

But no, in the end a point has to be made that there is no such thing as the conscious choice to be evil - people only ever get fucked over by life which in turn makes them sad, then empty, and then ultimately evil. So basically he's turning into Sasuske 2.0 after a promising start as the opposing sage.

And that's why I don't like it one bit even if for once Kishi invests some time and tries hard to make it compelling. Tries so hards he has to make Danzo and Oro additional sources of Kabuto's pains ... and it's nice to see Oro being an ass but a brilliant one back then in root, but does it all have to lead back to him??? I thought Kabuto had emancipated himself from Oro but instead it seems it all leads back to him and keeps on doing so

As for those who say this is not a real flashback, it's just Itachi messing with his mind via Izahax, all good and well on a plot internal level, maybe that is the case... but ultimately it is Kishi who decides what Itachi makes Kabuto remember or see, so...same issue still.... He could have warped Kabuto's reality in all kinds of different ways.

Now maybe I am wrong and Kishi is doing all this precisley because kabuto will NOT die, and as a latecomer to the main antagonists needs more story. and maybe that will still work out as things progress, after all I dunno where he will go with this in the next three chaps...

But what I really fear now is that he gets the emo flashback before dying as is cannon, and that doesn't get any better just cause he takes the time to put some thought into the flashback and stretch it out a couple of chaps longer than one normally would expect.

christinemarie · 2012-04-18, 14:05

This chapter seems tells me, why do I have a bad feeling that Orochimaru would return except he only have memories of Kabuto?

Spoiler for possible sequence:

Rahan · 2012-04-18, 14:43

We know this isn't how it happened. Oro thanked Sasori (well Yamato under disguise) for sending Kabuto to him since Kabuto's talents proved useful to him, so we are supposed to care why ? We know for a fact Oro isn't the one who found Kabuto.

If Kishi doesn't care enough about Kabuto to check the background he already gave him to avoid contradictions, why should I care ?

This isn't Mangetsu (the guy who wanted to become a swordmsan, before we learn that he was already a swordmsan who even had mastered all the swords), this is one of the last major antagonists we have FFS ! Kishi could at least make it like he is putting some effort in his writing.

Ulquiorra · 2012-04-18, 14:52

So is Danzou the true villain of this manga? Kishimoto's allegory against nationalism and doing evil things in the name of the greater good?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lendial

im trying hard to care about kabuto but i just cant muster the ducks to do it.

Well Kishi is going to kill him off so he has to get you to care about him before he does. Kishi loves to milk the pathos. He wants you to feel something for Kabuto when the end comes.

Rahan · 2012-04-18, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

So is Danzou the true villain of this manga? Kishimoto's allegory against nationalism and doing evil things in the name of the greater good?

Considering Kishi made Itachi an hero whose only wrong was how he treated his brother, you couldn't be more wrong.

This is Naruto. The good guys are the ones who look cool. The bad guys are the ones who look ugly and turn into monsters. If one ugly guy teams up with a cool guy to slaughter a clan, the ugly guy is evil and the cool guy is a hero.

Ulquiorra · 2012-04-18, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahan

This is Naruto. The good guys are the ones who look cool. The bad guys are the ones who look ugly and turn into monsters. If one ugly guy teams up with a cool guy to slaughter a clan, the ugly guy is evil and the cool guy is a hero.

Doesn't work with Kakuzu and Hidan. Hidan was the good looking cool guy, but a complete evil bastard. Kakuzu was the ugly monster, but had the tragic back-story about being sold out by his village.

Hunter · 2012-04-18, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahan

If Kishi doesn't care enough about Kabuto to check the background he already gave him to avoid contradictions, why should I care ?

For all we know Sasori is the one who erased Kabuto's memory and sent him there in the first place, you are being way too hasty to call for contradictions.

Quote:

This isn't Mangetsu (the guy who wanted to become a swordmsan, before we learn that he was already a swordmsan who even had mastered all the swords), this is one of the last major antagonists we have FFS ! Kishi could at least make it like he is putting some effort in his writing.

You counfound Mangetsu and Suigetsu.

Anyways the flashback in itself isn't so bad (last week was pointless though), it's just a problem of timing. It should have happened during part 1 to introduce Danzou or at the beginning of part2 during the 2nd arc. Now it seems hardly relevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Doesn't work with Kakuzu and Hidan. Hidan was the good looking cool guy, but a complete evil bastard. Kakuzu was the ugly monster, but had the tragic back-story about being sold out by his village.

The 3rd Databook also had an entry about Hidan's past and how he was twisted by the constant warfare into becoming a battle-crazed sociopath who couldn't function in time of peace and thus fell prey to the Jashin sect's teachings of continuous murder. The true vilain of the story is the ninja-system, all the bad guys of this story were crushed and twisted between its hinges.

Mists · 2012-04-18, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

For all we know Sasori is the one who erased Kabuto's memory and sent him there in the first place, you are being way too hasty to call for contradictions.

You counfound Mangetsu and Suigetsu.

Anyways the flashback in itself isn't so bad (last week was pointless though), it's just a problem of timing. It should have happened during part 1 to introduce Danzou or at the beginning of part2 during the 2nd arc. Now it seems hardly relevant.

Yeah, I can't feel the reason to care for Kabuto either. And the problem is...I think there's at least 1 more chapter of the flashback. Maybe at the end Itachi says 'prepare for Izanami'. It's hard to swallow this considering all the epic fights happening.

It's also quite contradictory to the man who had nothing happen to have his mom, and Oro...

It was Bone Marrow Guy who Oro found as a boy next to the tree, right? Hopefully I'm not thinking of Haku and Zabuza...ahh the good ol' days.

Blaat · 2012-04-18, 16:59

To quote the ever awesome Batman (admittedly it was the first boy wonder as Batman, but that doesn't make it any less awesome)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batman

Backstory. Not interested.

Rahan · 2012-04-18, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

For all we know Sasori is the one who erased Kabuto's memory and sent him there in the first place, you are being way too hasty to call for contradictions.

I thought about it, but this would solve Kabuto's identity crisis (he would always have had the option to get his identity back from Sasori, even in the case he couldn't get his memories), so this not going to happen, this would go exactly against the point of the flashback. Not even I think Kishi is bad enough to write this. Although it could still happen with Izanami, whose point would be to change bad writingfate.

Plus do you really see Sasori brainwashing kids so that they can spy on Orochimaru 8 frigging years later ? If Oro didn't get hurt near that orphanage 3 years after the brainwashing, he would have never noticed Kabuto. This is completely implausible.

Quote:

You counfound Mangetsu and Suigetsu.

Nah, last we knew, they were both training under the swordsmen with the intention of becoming a swordsman, yet for some reason, Edo Mangetsu was a swordsman who mastered all the swords. Not that I care, he wasn't even graced with a 2 panels fight.

Shiryuu · 2012-04-18, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanQ

More Orochi hardcore pedo ~ 5 yr long wait for his boy.

I thought younger was better?

james0246 · 2012-04-18, 17:12

I'm still unsure of Kabuto's history. Was he a Konoha intelligence officer before or after the Battle of Kikyō Pass (where he was found by Konoha-nin)? And did Sasori get Kabuto when he was young (this chapter clearly shows Kabuto working in Suna) or sometime later? Hopefully next chapter will fill in the timeline a bit better.

2012-04-18, 10:44	Link #23
SeanQ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	More Orochi hardcore pedo ~ 5 yr long wait for his boy. __________________ Your signature was deleted by a Mod because it exceeded the size limit requested in the forum rules! Please take a look at it.

2012-04-18, 10:50	Link #24
Lendial Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	im trying hard to care about kabuto but i just cant muster the ducks to do it. __________________

2012-04-18, 14:00	Link #29
haegar mangaviking Join Date: Jun 2009	I'll admit that at the very least instead of just retconning a one chapter background in and the killing Kabuto, Kishi is taking his time with this one and the flashback of Kabuto's past at least is handled in earnest. However, I still stand by my not likeing the background that he is given, AT ALL. So lemme flashback, too: At first I was annoyed with Kabuto for getting more and more screentime and power over the course of the war. The whole Edo-Tensei business had this whiff of asspull... And then later it seemed only a matter of time till either Itachi or Sasuske show up to end him. And there Kishi suprised us nicely by staying coherent with Kabuto's powergain, he pitted both Itachi and Sasuske against him and yet he seems a decent match. And I rly like how he explained that enormous powerup via Snakesage, that was good in many a ways: Naruto's sage mode is less exceptional, but still is a cool thing. The very notion that a "sage" doesn't have to be inherently good, but that there can also be somebody using natural energy at so high a level precisley for being a sage of evil I thought was great. And I felt that Kabuto's character as I read him mixed well with that: Whatever psychfuck had happened to him in the past under Oro or Sasori, he had passed through and left behind his state of emotional trauma and trying to emulate Oro's greatness and instead decided to pursue his own, surpassing his former mentor. And being the snake sage fits that so nicely. He had discarded emotion for power completely, or so it seemed, to become the cold calculating snake. And that would have added to the manga imho as one of the main villains not having the villain face cause he had a hard childhood but rather because after a troubled live, he conciously threw all that human shit away and married power itself instead in the guise of the path of the evil sage. Like that, I was willing to accept him as a potential wench in the plans of either of the other main players. Like that he could have moved on to seriously interfere with the Kages, with Naruto, with Sasuske and even with Madara himself ... because like that he would ahve shown a dedication to raw power itself like few others. But no, in the end a point has to be made that there is no such thing as the conscious choice to be evil - people only ever get fucked over by life which in turn makes them sad, then empty, and then ultimately evil. So basically he's turning into Sasuske 2.0 after a promising start as the opposing sage. And that's why I don't like it one bit even if for once Kishi invests some time and tries hard to make it compelling. Tries so hards he has to make Danzo and Oro additional sources of Kabuto's pains ... and it's nice to see Oro being an ass but a brilliant one back then in root, but does it all have to lead back to him??? I thought Kabuto had emancipated himself from Oro but instead it seems it all leads back to him and keeps on doing so As for those who say this is not a real flashback, it's just Itachi messing with his mind via Izahax, all good and well on a plot internal level, maybe that is the case... but ultimately it is Kishi who decides what Itachi makes Kabuto remember or see, so...same issue still.... He could have warped Kabuto's reality in all kinds of different ways. Now maybe I am wrong and Kishi is doing all this precisley because kabuto will NOT die, and as a latecomer to the main antagonists needs more story. and maybe that will still work out as things progress, after all I dunno where he will go with this in the next three chaps... But what I really fear now is that he gets the emo flashback before dying as is cannon, and that doesn't get any better just cause he takes the time to put some thought into the flashback and stretch it out a couple of chaps longer than one normally would expect. __________________

2012-04-18, 14:05	Link #30
christinemarie Crazy One Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Crimson Demon's Realm Age: 40	This chapter seems tells me, why do I have a bad feeling that Orochimaru would return except he only have memories of Kabuto? Spoiler for possible sequence: How about the real return of Orochimaru disintegrating Kabuto's body like some sort of time jutsu that would only activate if Kabuto is in grave danger state, much to the surprise of Uchiha brothers. Then the Edo-Tensei can still be cancelled depending on Orochimaru.

2012-04-18, 14:43	Link #31
Rahan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: France	We know this isn't how it happened. Oro thanked Sasori (well Yamato under disguise) for sending Kabuto to him since Kabuto's talents proved useful to him, so we are supposed to care why ? We know for a fact Oro isn't the one who found Kabuto. If Kishi doesn't care enough about Kabuto to check the background he already gave him to avoid contradictions, why should I care ? This isn't Mangetsu (the guy who wanted to become a swordmsan, before we learn that he was already a swordmsan who even had mastered all the swords), this is one of the last major antagonists we have FFS ! Kishi could at least make it like he is putting some effort in his writing. Last edited by Rahan; 2012-04-18 at 14:54.

2012-04-18, 09:56	Link #22
Midnight Commander Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Command center, the ship's bridge	I really enjoyed this chapter, it was nice to see certain old prominent faces that really shaped this manga from the beginning. The scene with Danzou sitting and his root ninja at his side was very badass. Orochimaru's demenor was as sinister as ever, and I guess we know his "threat" to take the orphan's children wasn't just a threat --he'll glady be taking them regardless. Orochimaru's entrance from the water was actually pretty brilliant: It shows Kabuto's face as he has trouble with his identity, and slowly his face's reflection starts exhibiting Oro's features starting with the eyes; pretty symbolic. It will be quite nice to see that scene animated, with some appropriate music. I also think Orochimaru being in root is interesting, because he doesn't seem to be emotionless like the others, just heartless. I wonder if root conditioning is partly why he is so ruthless, that is, if they even had to bother to nulify his emotions? Looking at Danzou's conversation with Nonou, it seems as if he has just used genjitsu on her by the way he seems to have clutched his eye --and her sudden acceptance of their proposal. Perhaps it took alot out of him early on, as he probably wasn't as used to it back then; in the summit it he was perfectly composed.

2012-04-18, 12:04	Link #27
Methuselah Payback is a b*t#8, huh? Join Date: May 2007	Why?! Why is Kishi-baka trying to justify every single antagonist in the story?! They are monsters! MONSTERS! Orochimaru would kidnap men, women, children, and dissect and experiment on them! Danzo assassinates others, inspire revolt in other nations, sockets Uchiha eyes into his arm, tries to take over Kohana. Kabuto is no better. After Garaa's arc, it is shown that Kabuto regularly collects bodies of children ranging from 8 to 16 year olds and seal them in his scroll. Hell even Orochimaru broke a sweat listening to Kabuto's "anxiety" for not having a 13 year old boy! WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I CARE ABOUT ANY OF THESE FUCKS. STOP WASTING CHAPTERS! :O I'm starting to feel like Kishi-baka is running out of ideas and is stalling.

2012-04-18, 12:42	Link #28
Ero-Senn1n Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hidden Village of Sake	Orochimaru was already banished from Konoha by the 3rd or not? If Kabuto is now about 20 years old (does the data book tell his age?), then this all had to happen about 15 years before now, which is around the time of the death of the 4th hokage, which means this had to be after Orochimaru had to run away. Which means that Orochimaru had free access to Konoha's resources through Danzou, in exchange he helped Danzou to become stronger. I guess at this time Orochi already implanted the 1st hokage's cells into Danzou, but in this chapter it really seemed like the Uchiha eyes were not yet implanted. We see no metal cover on him, which is needed to conceal the eyes from sensing ninja like byakugan users. So i guess this was probably just before the kyuubi attack and the Uchiha massacre, where its most likely that Danzou obtained all the eyes which Orochi will soon implant into his arm. I wonder if he had already Shisui's eye under the bandage, if so then he could also easily control the spy woman or Kabuto. For example Orochi asked Danzou to do him a favor and make Kabuto join them, because when he healed Orochimaru he realized how talented Kabuto is, so Orochi wanted him for his experiments. The only thing that doesn't yet fit into this story is Sasori, how did he get a hold of Kabuto, maybe he did so when Sasori was paired with Orochi because he had disagreements with Orochi.

2012-04-18, 17:12	Link #40
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	I'm still unsure of Kabuto's history. Was he a Konoha intelligence officer before or after the Battle of Kikyō Pass (where he was found by Konoha-nin)? And did Sasori get Kabuto when he was young (this chapter clearly shows Kabuto working in Suna) or sometime later? Hopefully next chapter will fill in the timeline a bit better.