Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

First, congratulations for another sub-forum.. it's been a while since last time we got it

Spoiler for disgusting fact that I think got skipped in anime:

I think they didn't mention that the "slave mark eraser" magic would cost all Naofumi's reward for the first wave.. means that the kingdom didn't grant him anything aside from that one bite of cake that Raphtalia gave him

I'm glad that I finally went through this part..
like in first episode, I'm glad they tried really hard to mellow the three heroes' attitude
Spear guy didn't speak as loud as I predict.. while Itsuki and Ren only commented as outsiders.. you can't blame both of them in this episode
After all Itsuki is an idealist.. he might be biased but he trusted his own eyes
and Ren is a loner.. who didn't care about anything
They're different from Motoyasu, which is very emotional and STUPID

I think Raphtalia's VA could use more soothing voice during the reconciliation part
but Raphtalia smile is angelic

now we're moving forward to positive stuffs
after all, Naofumi won't face his persecution alone from now on

Regarding the spoiler, I guess this is another one of those cases where people get the order of events mixed up and forget that there's still an episode after this one. The thing in the spoiler tag still has time to happen next episode. (saying this out loud in the hope that people won't click it thinking it won't be mentioned in the show)

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Regarding the spoiler, I guess this is another one of those cases where people get the order of events mixed up and forget that there's still an episode after this one. The thing in the spoiler tag still has time to happen next episode. (saying this out loud in the hope that people won't click it thinking it won't be mentioned in the show)

Might not happen at all.
At least I don't remember that, the contents of the spoiler tag ever happened in the Manga. Then again, it's been a while.

[maximilianjenus]

Yeah, I mean, they already skipped one thing that helped more on naofumi's characterization and is referred to later in the story.

spoiler for skipped content

Spoiler:

another adventurer party offers their help to naofumi after the first one, but he refuses thier help.

which helps showing how broken naofumi was.

[frodonk]

Originally Posted by Kinematics

Pompous he may have been, but Motoyasu's stance was exactly the sort of stance most people would take (and have taken) against Naofumi's actions, if based on modern world perspectives. If we hadn't been seeing what's going on with Naofumi, the vast majority of people would be cheering Motoyasu on in that fight. And that's without whatever strange prejudice people have against the Shield Hero, here.

And yet we've seen how moderate the reaction of the other 2 heroes were. Motoyasu's the only one who's been too gung-ho about this whole thing, we could say that's because the princess was in his party, but even then it's partly because Myne's been manipulating him as well by feeding his ego, so while it might be because he really believed Myne's version of what happened, there's also that factor that he's an idiot that's being manipulated, and that frustrates me a bit.

Why would you think that they'd be passing out the rewards at the beginning of the evening? Even without the king and Mein's plotting, ceremonial parties like that are designed around the intermingling (eating, talking, dancing) happening first, and the awards second. Look at any type of awards ceremony, and you'll see the same type of general flow and pacing.

So Naofumi staying during the party seems perfectly normal and natural. He's stuck there until they give out the awards, and is just killing time. He clearly doesn't need, or even want, the food, as it's still tasteless to him, and thus worthless.

i know I kept saying that he can leave then come back during the actual handing out of the money, but obviously he can hang out somewhere not directly inside the hall, he can even tell Raph to stay there and call him when it's time if we want to be technical.

But like I said, there's also that thing on why he decides to accept the reward this time after throwing down the money he received back in episode 1, it's not for the lack of it since he's been steadily getting/selling monster loots compared to when he was starting out, and he definitely isn't that hard up on cash when he can afford custom made armor, but that's just me.

It could be that he feels entitled to it after saving that village, but I don't recall ever seeing a scene where he was told to get his reward apart from the head knight telling the other 3 heroes outside the village that the king is going to reward them, it might've been in the source material, i don't know.

Um, the attack by Mein happened when Motoyasu wasn't looking. He never saw it happen. When Itsuki and Ren accused her of that, he reacted, and prompted Mein for an explanation.

I was referring to that scene with Raph "healing" Naofumi but I think I mixed it up with the Myne's attack scene, sorry. My main point was that Motoyasu's too far gone that the other heroes told him that "It's amazing you still believe that after you've seen them" and he thought Raph's still under the curse.

Read what the king said again: a hero, using a demi-human as a slave

Yes, slavery is legal. But this isn't about the average person having a slave, it's about a hero having a slave. The heroes are held up to a higher standard. Certainly the heroes themselves would generally avoid slavery, but it's an easy to way to throw mud on Naofumi by using their own modern morals against them. This is a dirty tactic, but this is the king we're talking about.

Second, it's a demi-human slave. Even if you have a slave, you're not using a human; rather, you're allowing a demi-human to associate with you — a hero. Given the kingdom's feelings about demi-humans, allowing one to be part of a hero's party is despicable. It's like a bunch of white nationalists finding out that you let a black guy into your party when you set out to fight the demon lord.

Third, it's a hero using a slave. Despite the fact that the situation was entirely engineered by the king and Mein, it's an accusation against the fact that Naofumi couldn't even get a single free person to voluntarily join his party, which just makes Naofumi look pathetic. This is the part that I think Itsuki and Ren reacted to. It's a sad and despicable state of affairs.

With just one sentence, the king managed to attack Naofumi on three different levels, without ever admitting that the very existence of slaves, and slavery of demi-humans, was wrong, or should reflect on him and his rulership. This is absolutely not an issue with the story or the worldbuilding. It's a character very skillfully using words to destroy a man, and reinforce the hatred that all the nobles in the court have against the Shield Hero.

I concede this point, this is a great explanation! That scene makes a lot of sense now.

[Sheba]

Him going to the party in hope to receive the money reward may have a more pragmatic reason. In the previous episodes, he was shown trying to make ends meet, down to counting the money he spent. Raphtalia being an extra charge, he likely thought that a bit more money would have helped them both, for better places to sleep in, better meals and better equipment for Raphtalia. The other heroes are playing Dragon Quest. Naofumi, otoh, is stuck with a Skyrim stuck with the difficulty slider all the way to Hard, and modded with mods that have NPCs being hostile to him, and Fallout 4's Survival Mode activated.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Itlandm

Now I am curious if Raphtalia will want to have the slave seal reinstated. No need to tell me, I'm just saying I am curious. I mean, if the author want to cater to the slavery fetish, I suppose it can be done. I assume you don't become magically immune to slavery just by having the slave seal washed away with holy water or whatever that stuff was.

That strikes me as such a weird idea. Why would Raphtalia want the seal back? That Naofumi doesn't need her to have it anymore is a sign of his trust. Her going back to being a slave would be taking a step back. Neither of them have anything to gain from it, unless the seal has some other special effects that could be useful that we weren't told about in the anime.

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

BTW, does this series get two full cours or only one?

Two cour; 25 episodes.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Kanon

That strikes me as such a weird idea. Why would Raphtalia want the seal back? That Naofumi doesn't need her to have it anymore is a sign of his trust. Her going back to being a slave would be taking a step back. Neither of them have anything to gain from it, unless the seal has some other special effects that could be useful that we weren't told about in the anime.

Hard to say if he's really absolutely trusting of her. Yes, she calmed him down and convinced him to trust her, but that little voice of doubt isn't killed so easily. There'll always be the risk that when something happens he'll second-guess her intent, wonder if she, like Mein, has just been playing him and will betray him for her own benefit. And even if it just flips through his mind for a second, the momentary hesitation could be fatal on the battlefield. It could be that he doesn't need her to have it anymore, but there is something to gain: it'd be a way for her to demonstrate her faith in him and determination to prove her loyalty.

Also, as I understand this is a one-cour. There are two cours in a year, each around 26 weeks/episodes; most anime are half-cours.

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Also, as I understand this is a one-cour. There are two cours in a year, each around 26 weeks/episodes; most anime are half-cours.

No, one "cour" is one 'season' — Winter, Spring, Summer, and Fall. Generally 12-13 episodes, but can range from 10-14. There are four cour per year. Two cour is two such seasons, generally in the 24-26 episode range.

See also: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cour

[BWTraveller]

OK. I'd previously seen it described as a six-month period is all. Don't remember where but I swear I'd seen something saying thirteen was a half.

[felix]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

BTW, does this series get two full cours or only one?

25 episodes supposedly. Probably going to be a recurring series if it does good.

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

OK. I'd previously seen it described as a six-month period is all. Don't remember where but I swear I'd seen something saying thirteen was a half.

Back in the early 2000's and earlier, a 'season' was generally considered 26 episodes for a TV series (eg: Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Azumanga Daioh, etc). Anything shorter than that was usually an OVA series (eg: Tenchi Muyo) rather than a TV series, so there wasn't a strong need for greater granularity.

However around that time period some shorter length shows starting coming out, only lasting ~13 episodes (eg: Saikano, Strawberry Marshmallow, Ikki Tousen, etc), as the anime production model shifted. Those were originally called "half seasons", but eventually the terminology was changed to use the word "cour" for a three-month period, and 'season' was used to represent a continuous run of episodes without regard for the number. Now 'season' is used to indicate story and/or production breakpoints, and 'cour' is used to indicate the length of the run (eg: Mob Psycho 100 seasons 1 and 2 are each 1 cour in length; Cardcaptor Sakura has 3 seasons, with the first season being 3 cour, the second season being 1 cour, and the third season being 2 cour).

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Hard to say if he's really absolutely trusting of her. Yes, she calmed him down and convinced him to trust her, but that little voice of doubt isn't killed so easily. There'll always be the risk that when something happens he'll second-guess her intent, wonder if she, like Mein, has just been playing him and will betray him for her own benefit. And even if it just flips through his mind for a second, the momentary hesitation could be fatal on the battlefield. It could be that he doesn't need her to have it anymore, but there is something to gain: it'd be a way for her to demonstrate her faith in him and determination to prove her loyalty.

I pretty much agree with Kanon. Putting the slave crest back on Raphtalia seems like a bad move, character development-wise. The entire point of this major development in episode 4 was to show that there was someone he could put his trust in, without outside gimmicks. Taking that away ruins the effectiveness of that development. So unless there's some mechanical benefit to doing so, I would be very unhappy to see them put the slave crest back in place. (And if there is a mechanical benefit, I would consider that bad writing, as an artificial gimmick to allow the slavery trope to continue to exist in the story.)

Originally Posted by Sheba

Him going to the party in hope to receive the money reward may have a more pragmatic reason. In the previous episodes, he was shown trying to make ends meet, down to counting the money he spent. Raphtalia being an extra charge, he likely thought that a bit more money would have helped them both, for better places to sleep in, better meals and better equipment for Raphtalia. The other heroes are playing Dragon Quest. Naofumi, otoh, is stuck with a Skyrim stuck with the difficulty slider all the way to Hard, and modded with mods that have NPCs being hostile to him, and Fallout 4's Survival Mode activated.

Yeah, whether he likes it or not, it's pretty obvious that the other heroes' gear is far above his own and Raphtalia's. If he wants to keep up, he has to take every advantage he can manage, regardless of whether he likes it. After all, that was pretty much the motivation behind buying a slave.

[Kuroageha]

Originally Posted by PreSage

The one thing I still don't quite understand is why did Naofumi lose his sense of taste and couldn't see the grown-up Raphtalia until now? I understand that whatever "spell" it was broke when he finally decided to trust someone but why was this there in the first place?

I'm no expert but it could be impaired taste, usually caused by physical reasons but it can also be due to the nervous system disorder caused under pressure or stress.

Hope there is a better opinion about this.

Originally Posted by Kanon

That strikes me as such a weird idea. Why would Raphtalia want the seal back? That Naofumi doesn't need her to have it anymore is a sign of his trust. Her going back to being a slave would be taking a step back. Neither of them have anything to gain from it, unless the seal has some other special effects that could be useful that we weren't told about in the anime.

If only traumas were overcome so easily this would be a better world.

[felix]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Hard to say if he's really absolutely trusting of her. Yes, she calmed him down and convinced him to trust her, but that little voice of doubt isn't killed so easily. There'll always be the risk that when something happens he'll second-guess her intent, wonder if she, like Mein, has just been playing him and will betray him for her own benefit. And even if it just flips through his mind for a second, the momentary hesitation could be fatal on the battlefield. It could be that he doesn't need her to have it anymore, but there is something to gain: it'd be a way for her to demonstrate her faith in him and determination to prove her loyalty.

Is this an excuse to make her a slave again?

Counter points:

1. she can play him as a slave as well! if she has ulterior motives then him making her a slave doesn't really change anything in their current "business" does it
2. if there was doubt before the slave seal goes on, then congratulations you just made it even more doubtful with it on; how exactly is "you have to be humiliated 24/7 for me to trust you" solving anything? (see point 1)
3. he never turned on the dangerous stuff as I recall from earlier discussion, so he doesn't seem to care as much as you make it out

Originally Posted by Kinematics

Yeah, whether he likes it or not, it's pretty obvious that the other heroes' gear is far above his own and Raphtalia's. If he wants to keep up, he has to take every advantage he can manage, regardless of whether he likes it. After all, that was pretty much the motivation behind buying a slave.

This argument that it's actually no less shitty situation then him buying a slave, I can actually somewhat accept as a valid argument for why he would be there. A bit twisted but okey sure, works for me. I do disagree on the gear and finances being as bad as you guys are making it out. Sure it's not great, but they actually seem to be managing (they both got armor, weapons etc). Also for all the hubbub around gear (from ep1) it sure hasn't been seen to make much of a difference. Especially in Naofumi's case, when has gear even be put to use? I only see the shield in use.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by felix

25 episodes supposedly. Probably going to be a recurring series if it does good.

Mercí. Pretty good, there's a lot of material to go through.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by felix

Is this an excuse to make her a slave again?

Counter points:

1. she can play him as a slave as well! if she has ulterior motives then him making her a slave doesn't really change anything in their current "business" does it
2. if there was doubt before the slave seal goes on, then congratulations you just made it even more doubtful with it on; how exactly is "you have to be humiliated 24/7 for me to trust you" solving anything? (see point 1)
3. he never turned on the dangerous stuff as I recall from earlier discussion, so he doesn't seem to care as much as you make it out

I honestly don't get what you're saying. How would her willingly having the seal replaced "change nothing" concerning possible ulterior motives? And how would it make his doubts worse? She'd be deliberately have made it so that she can't deceive or betray him, stopping her from doing anything to him. And why would he even have any use for any additional options beyond "can't deceive me", "can't disobey me" and "can't hurt me"? For security that's all that's needed. And in any case, if she willingly sought to have it restored, it would be a very strong demonstration of her trust in him as well as a way to reassure him in case of any lingering doubts. It's like taking all your weapons and giving them to someone.

[CrowKenobi]

This argument again? Now that there's room, please take it to another thread (or just drop it).

Also, Demi., I moved your preview post to the general discussion thread (in the future, please post preview info there).

[Sacredus]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Regarding the spoiler, I guess this is another one of those cases where people get the order of events mixed up and forget that there's still an episode after this one. The thing in the spoiler tag still has time to happen next episode. (saying this out loud in the hope that people won't click it thinking it won't be mentioned in the show)

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Might not happen at all.
At least I don't remember that, the contents of the spoiler tag ever happened in the Manga. Then again, it's been a while.

It was not skipped, Yami just mixed order of events.

[CrowKenobi]

Moved the slavery discussion to the proper thread so as not to derail the discussion in this thread.

[BWTraveller]

Terribly sorry. Thought the conversation had gone instead in the direction of Naofumi's heroism and a general look at his qualities.