Character Discussion - Lelouch

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Levy

To be honest, Li saids exactly the contrary in the episode.

Only because he is on the receiving end.

Li is not above murder and deceit to get what he wants. That's what they all have to be to do their jobs. No matter how questionable the act, it is still better than losing the battle. You are not going to be remembered fondly for not blowing up Mt Fuji, if your soldiers were slaughtered and your head is on a pike in the end.

What Li lacked was a sick imagination, it's not because he wouldn't be willing to do the same if he had thought of it.

[bladeofdarkness]

i doubt li would have done it if it ment killing his own ground forces

the problem is that there is a limit to how much of lelouch's villainy you can actually show on screen
we know that he was the most hated basterd on earth
but we dont see all that much of what he does to get there
we see
1)canceling the number system and the rights of nobles (that in its self is not such a bad thing, but it did make him much loved all over the world)
2)brainwashing thousends of innocent soldiers to be his puppets, and using them for his plan, at times mearly as nuke shields (a dog raping move on his part)
3)using his "emperor of justice" image to lure the UFN leaders into a peace summit and then kidnapping them to be used as human shields
4)blowing up mount fuji (triggering a natual disaster of epic proportions, just to get an edge in battle)
5)using his newly stolen nuke spamming doom fortress to take over the world (we dont know if he ended up having to nuke someone, or if the threat was enough)

and in the final we know that he is hated and feared by EVERYONE
not one person on earth who isnt brainwashed or part of the plan feels anything but hate for him
we dont know what else he had done becouse if they had actually shown on screen that he had been killing anyone who opposed him and then killing their entire family (a commen enough practice it would seem, since people on the street comment about it) it would have been very hard to sell him as a hero later on
thats why most of his villainy is implayed rather then shown on screen
but considering that he had already been shown on screen to be killing unarmed man woman and children (ironiclly when he was still playing the role of the hero)
one must wonder what else he did that was not shown

[Levy]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Only because he is on the receiving end.
Li is not above murder and deceit to get what he wants. [...]
What Li lacked was a sick imagination, it's not because he wouldn't be willing to do the same if he had thought of it.

LOL, well you can think whatever you want, it's entertaining to get different reading of characters - and I actually enjoy your reading of Lelouch - but Li seems to be thinking everything but - *facepalm* why didn't I think about it before??! - when Lelouch blow up Mt. Fuji.

I don't see any real reason to try to prove that he'd act the same, when everything you know about him says he won't. Li, and almost everyone else in the BK as well, is a soldier, obviously he is not stainless, but his character includes having a moral code that is sensibly different from Lelouch's one.
This doesn't make him totally innocent or anything, just a different character -likeable or not, that's beyond the point, just as much as Leouch's character can be liked or not.
You are free to think that his way of thinking is stupid and less moral than what Lelouch did, but, again, that's left to our personal interpretation.

[NyxOne]

Er, unless I'm mistaken, the only people he 'murdered' were the Eunuchs who were evil bastards, and the only people he 'deceived' were the Black Knights in...episode 2 or 3. And that was practically hand-waved.

[azul120]

First I'd like to introduce myself to the forum. (Had trouble getting my primary email confirmed, so I had to switch over to my hotmail.)

The one thing I'm wondering about Lelouch at this point is whether he ultimately told anyone, most notably Suzaku, about the circumstances of Euphemia's geassing.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by azul120

First I'd like to introduce myself to the forum. (Had trouble getting my primary email confirmed, so I had to switch over to my hotmail.)

The one thing I'm wondering about Lelouch at this point is whether he ultimately told anyone, most notably Suzaku, about the circumstances of Euphemia's geassing.

I imagine he would have told Suzaku during that missing month, Kallen would almost surely know (C.C. isn't the type to leave that out if she filled Kallen in for the rest of it), but no one else does.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

I imagine he would have told Suzaku during that missing month, Kallen would almost surely know (C.C. isn't the type to leave that out if she filled Kallen in for the rest of it), but no one else does.

Didn't the Black Knights find out from Schneizel that he geassed her?

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Didn't the Black Knights find out from Schneizel that he geassed her?

He said circumstances, as in the fact that it was accidental. Schenizel and Cornelia assume it was done maliciously.

[Levy]

IDK. I think Suzaku understood that Lelouch was not being totally sincere about Euphie at the Kururugi Shrine, but if they ever talk about it again, we'll never know.

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Schenizel and Cornelia assume it was done maliciously.

yes, but that's what Lelouch actually said. Schneizel might have been partially glad to hear that because it was convenient for him to have such confession, but Cornelia, she got no reason to doubth what Lelouch said.

[azul120]

I guess we may find out in future picture dramas.

[Haku-Men]

Originally Posted by azul120

I guess we may find out in future picture dramas.

don't count on it since the next one a sleepover featuring Rakshata and the other female members of the Black Knights with the Chinese Federation, the one after that is a Casino party with the Knights Of Round and the last one is about Cecile's past (so I've heard) let's hope there's one that serves as an epilogue to the story.

[morbosfist]

There's one before Cecile's and one after that you've missed. Those two could, though I wouldn't count on it.

[Haku-Men]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

There's one before Cecile's and one after that you've missed. Those two could, though I wouldn't count on it.

Which ones are theses? Since those three are the ones I've heard of thus far

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Mahakala

Which ones are theses? Since those three are the ones I've heard of thus far

There's no details that I know of.

Originally Posted by blottyparchment

5. BK girls + Tianzi pajama party - confirmed, as already seen from a spoiler image
6. Nunnally+KoR at a casino? - spoilers have been floating around 2ch
7. Yoshino written PD - I've read like a month ago that Yoshino is doing PD 7 but it's only recently that the spoilers have been backed with more info about DVD7.
8. Cecile (and Lloyd)'s past - spoiled by Animedia or was that Animage in one of their articles, the one about the fate of CG characters. It was mentioned that we'll know more about Cecile in PD8.
9. ??? - nothing yet, except Okouchi as writer.

This is how it goes, apparently.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

I fail to see the logic here. Lelouch became Zero after he got the Geass power and decided to change the world. Had he not gotten his Geass powers and became Zero, well, actually he would've been killed by the Brittanian army. Of course he could've still gotten the Geass powers and then not become Zero, but then C.C. would've still been involved, and who knows after that.

While i think lelouch was planning to become zero even before meeting with c.c., I think he was aware that he could not do something great. So, maybe he would have never started his plan (if he had a plan at that time, i doubt it).

As he said to C.C. in 24, "C.C. it was because of the geass you gave me... It was because you were there that I was able to take my first step..."

I doubt Lelouch would have done something without the geass, at least not at the age of 17. He hated britannia a lot and wanted to change the world for nunnaly, but he was not stupid. He would have not sent himself to die.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Narona

While i think lelouch was planning to become zero even before meeting with c.c., I think he was aware that he could not do something great. So, maybe he would have never started his plan (if he had a plan at that time, i doubt it).

As he said to C.C. in 24, "C.C. it was because of the geass you gave me... It was because you were there that I was able to take my first step..."

I doubt Lelouch would have done something without the geass, at least not at the age of 17. He hated britannia a lot and wanted to change the world for nunnaly, but he was not stupid. He would have not sent himself to die.

This is true actually. Lelouch without Geass, is just, not Lelouch of Rebellion. It is like a car without gas. His gas was C.C with Geass.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

This is true actually. Lelouch without Geass, is just, not Lelouch of Rebellion. It is like a car without gas. His gas was C.C with Geass.

Yeah, exactly (I love your analogy).

she was not his lover, but I least she was that XD

Now maybe lelouch would have tried something but I don't see how. He had nothing which would be useful against britannia.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Narona

Yeah, exactly (I love your analogy).

she was not his lover, but I least she was that XD

Now maybe lelouch would have tried something but I don't see how. He had nothing which would be useful against britannia.

It is true though. xD

And this is exactly why Lelouch was grateful to C.C in the end, he acknowledges that without her, he practically has nothing. He would have accomplished nothing.
C.C became his mirror, thus the word "equal."

[Narona]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

It is true though. xD

And this is exactly why Lelouch was grateful to C.C in the end, he acknowledges that without her, he practically has nothing. He would have accomplished nothing.
C.C became his mirror, thus the word "equal."

Of course it's true XD but this analogy was simply great!

What do you exactly mean by his "mirror"?

On a side note, when lelouch got the geass from her, he accepted the "contract", but I don't know if he was really serious when he did (after that, he was kinda shocked when c.c. appeared at ashford). At that time, he also wanted to save his life. Refusing the contract would have meant death. So did he really have the choice? ^^

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Narona

Of course it's true XD but this analogy was simply great!

What do you exactly mean by his "mirror"?

On a side note, when lelouch got the geass from her, he accepted the "contract", but I don't know if he was really serious when he did (after that, he was kinda shocked when c.c. appeared at ashford). At that time, he also wanted to save his life. Refusing the contract would have meant death. So did he really have the choice? ^^

Ok, thank you then.

Hmm, i might have not actually used the right word. {or actually, i had a greek word/saying in my mind when i said that, like mirror-moment, it might not make much sense but i'll try to explain}
I meant, the moment C.C gave Lelouch the Geass. It was not just a moment. It is like that moment settled and hovered and remained for much more than just a simple moment. Most of time people make the moments in their lives but at this occasion, it was C.C that by giving Geass to Lelouch, she made him.
She gave him the power, that made him the architect of his fate. Lelouch was supposed to bring down Britania, it is like, he was born for this, one way or another.
And up until that moment, he was "dead" {i think he even said this once in the series, or maybe it was in the Pilot epi} And C.C gave him the strength and hope that the world he desire can be won.
So i guess, i used the word mirror, in a more of a metaphorical sense, like C.C is the starting point of his "real" life, the mirror of the life he deserved but never been able to reach and yet, at the same moment he can reach it.