Claymore Chapter 120

[ATM]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Imo it's pointless to try give Prissy's power a quantity value since we really have no real basis to confirm anything (nothing wrong in speculating of course,on the contrary it's cool).
The only thing we can sure of is that Prissy is A LOT more powerful than an abyssal......but i won't go more deep in this discussion since i know from experience that not everyone talk about "power" giving the same meaning so all the times it's really confusing .

Yes, I also don't like to talk about power levels or youki percentiles, not because they are not important, but b/cos I don't think have the brains for it. But the thing is that Dae (in my opinion) made a powerful statment by saying "Just a single left arm That was able to contain even the power of an abissal one". Man that's a huge statement, that can totally change the rules for what we knew or think that we knew about Priscilla. I mean Dae is the scientist, right? which means he is the smart one, and to make that assesstment is a great deal. Not only it implies that Priscilla has a power beyond an abysal one; it also implies that who ever is containing her (Dae doesn't know this but we do) are incredibly powerful. Which means that Clare's power is also way off the charts (to be able to contain Priscilla is a feat, and yes she is not doing it alone, but the destroyer by it's self was no match for Prsicilla either).

I don't think Priscilla would be able to brake free from her prison, as you say, unless Clare allow it; she would have done so already. But if Clare somehow feels that letting her loose is nesessary she will only do so if they both come into terms that, before they settle their own personal affair, they have to first deal with this situation in the east, in the MiBs headquarters. Which could mean that they have to agree on somethin and work together, wow!

Darn this manga is getting weirder by the chapter.

You are also right by saying that Priscilla is not going to show up (if she does) and demand her left arm back; but she will be exasperate about the fact that these 3 strangers are benefiting from what it was a gift which she gave to a friend? (Raki).

Never the less I don't think that Priscilla (3 or more Ao's in one) is going to be able be triumphant against Cassandra, Roxane and Hysteria by herself. She is going to need some help and I think that Clare will have to aid her, because other choices are just not availave, I mean who is going to help her one arm Miria? Darn As much as I love Miria I would say no way and the rest of the claymores are just not up to this challenge.

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

...and just for curiosity,what difference does it make if Histy "was dying" or she actually "died" during Miria's attack?

Originally Posted by yononaka

It makes a huge difference.

It was a legitimate win for Miria either way. Hysteria only got out of it because she's a zombie in the process of awakening.

[ATM]

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

It was a legitimate win for Miria either way. Hysteria only got out of it because she's a zombie in the process of awakening.

Darn right!

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by little_angel

Everything makes sense after I read the translation. Hysteria didn't actually died from Miria's last attack but she was dying and the difference is huge.

Originally Posted by yononaka

I'm unclear on how reading the translation can tell you whether she had died or not. Was it stated somewhere I didn't notice (possible)? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know what told you that, if your understanding is based on the text and not the pictures.

Just answering the bolded part for expediency... definitely based on the text. As for discerning whether she died or was dying, definitely food for thought... .

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

...and just for curiosity,what difference does it make if Histy "was dying" or she actually "died" during Miria's attack?

Originally Posted by yononaka

It makes a huge difference.

Definitely an important distinction. My understanding of the scenario is that Hysteria, for all intents and purposes, died (again). Miria may have her "duh" moments, but it would be an unforgivable blunder on her part to leave an enemy warrior behind to possibly awaken, especially after just witnessing Cassandra's sudden awakening.

[yononaka]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

I asked what's the difference (obvioously i'm talking about the"difference in concrete terms",not the "conceptual difference".....),if you answer me with "It makes an huge difference" it's not really helpful .

In that case you'll have to wait for little_angel to answer you.

Or I could say it'd make Miria look less stupid if Hysteria (for some handwaved reason that doesn't make much sense to me) was indeed technically dead for a time.

I could even say it's important to keep count, because I think these ZAOs can only die three times.

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

It was a legitimate win for Miria either way. Hysteria only got out of it because she's a zombie in the process of awakening.

No it wasn't. The rulebook says you're disqualified if you use your mouth. And one could say Hysteria got out of it to make Miria feel better about having (not) killed a comrade.

[MalakTawus]

@ATM

Which could mean that they have to agree on somethin and work together, wow!

Well, work together seems a bit too much for me,lol.
I'd say that Claire will go there to save her friends and Prissy will tag along just to play a bit with those 3 before doing the duel with Claire that she desires more than anything else.
Of couse like you said they should agree to postpone the duel until Claire saved her friends,if not i doubt Claire will ever agree to free Prissy (and even this move has meaning only if Claire think to have a possibility to win the duel with Prissy,if not her friends will be killed anyway).

You are also right by saying that Priscilla is not going to show up (if she does) and demand her left arm back; but she will be exasperate about the fact that these 3 strangers are benefiting from what it was a gift which she gave to a friend? (Raki).

Tbh,considering that her intention to save Raki was successful,i don't think that Prissy care at all about the arm that she left.
If i really have to imagine a reaction from her it wouyld be something like:

"Oh,so the org used my little gift to create new toys, interesting......it seems i can play for a bit,you don't mind, right Claire?Afterall that's also what you want,lololol.
I hope they won't be disappointing....." ( All this said with her usual evil grin)

Never the less I don't think that Priscilla (3 or more Ao's in one) is going to be able be triumphant against Cassandra, Roxane and Hysteria by herself.

Different opinion,i think that she'd TOTALLY destroy them easily.
Forget about defeating her,my only question if they are strong enough to make her fight seriously (something that she has NEVER done till now).....even if imo only her fight with Claire will have that effect on her.

[yononaka]

Originally Posted by Falcor

Just answering the bolded part for expediency... definitely based on the text.

It's not that definite. It could have happened by looking at the pictures (temporally) after having read the translation.

Edit: Oh, I get it, the comma might have made my meaning unclear. To rephrase: "If your understanding is based on the text and not the pictures, I just don't know what (in the text) told you that."

[ATM]

Originally Posted by Falcor

Just answering the bolded part for expediency... definitely based on the text. As for discerning whether she died or was dying, definitely food for thought... .


Definitely an important distinction. My understanding of the scenario is that Hysteria, for all intents and purposes, died (again). Miria may have her "duh" moments, but it would be an unforgivable blunder on her part to leave an enemy warrior behind to possibly awaken, especially after just witnessing Cassandra's sudden awakening.

What would you do if you got into a huge brawl and happened to K.O. the opponent that was in front of you, knowing that there are more oppoents behind you. Would you keep hitting the guy you just K.O. or would you try to get ready to face your other opponents? and what if you where armless? What Miria Did was very reasonable, she defeated her opponent and got ready to face yet some more; she knew she won the battle but not the war, so she was just looking for some cover while she was able to regenerate her severed arm and figure a reasonable way out of these situation, even if that included joining forces with Roxane. But I things where happening so fast that boom Hysteria went biki biki, before she could even go and try to chop her head off; and even if she was able to, does anyone thinks that at this point Miria choping Hysterias head hould have made any difference?

[MalakTawus]

@yononaka and Falcor

Or I could say it'd make Miria look less stupid if Hysteria (for some handwaved reason that doesn't make much sense to me) was indeed technically dead for a time.

Bha,imo it's not so strange.
Given the fatal blow that Histy suffered it makes sense that her yoki became almost impreceptible,and if you consider that Miria has never been great at yoki reading, that she is damn close to HUGE sources of yoki that obviously disturb her senses and that she's also very worried about all the other warriors, i'd say it's not surprising that she didn't notice that Histy was not completely dead.

....but it's also possible that when she suffered her fatal blow her body completely shut down for a bit (not sure i'd call it "death",but whatever,that's just semantics).

Tbh in concrete i don't see an huge difference and i also don't see why Cassy's awakening would have helped Miria to predict what happened with Histy,it's not that Cassy suffered a fatal wound and suddenly awakened,on the contrary her awakening was absolutely "canon": warior gets mad,warrior awaken.Don't see any particular hint here tbh.

[ATM]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

@ATM


Well, work together seems a bit too much for me,lol.
I'd say that Claire will go there to save her friends and Prissy will tag along just to play a bit with those 3 before doing the duel with Claire that she desires more than anything else.
Of couse like you said they should agree to postpone the duel until Claire saved her friends,if not i doubt Claire will ever agree to free Prissy (and even this move has meaning only if Claire think to have a possibility to win the duel with Prissy,if not her friends will be killed anyway).




Tbh,considering that her intention to save Raki was successful,i don't think that Prissy care at all about the arm that she left.
If i really have to imagine a reaction from her it wouyld be something like:

"Oh,so the org used my little gift to create new toys, interesting......it seems i can play for a bit,you don't mind, right Claire?Afterall that's also what you want,lololol.
I hope they won't be disappointing....." ( All this said with her usual evil grin)


Different opinion,i think that she'll TOTALLY destroy them easily.
Forget about defeating her,my only question if they are strong enough to make her fight seriously (something that she has NEVER done till now).....even if imo only her fight with Claire will have that effect on her.

But remember that Teresas scent is what is driving Priscilla's motives at the moment, there is no way that Priscilla is going along with Clare with out a compromise. These two are going to have to sort their differences and its going to happen this december! .

About the left arm as a gift, I mean that if you give a gift to someone even if that someone is not that important to you, you will be concerned if you find other ppl using that gift, lol I don't even know what I'm trying to say, but it makes sense to me that Priscilla will be mad to know that some newly born Ao's are going about feeling all powerfull with something that didn't belonged to them in the first place.

[MalakTawus]

Originally Posted by ATM

But remember that Teresas scent is what is driving Priscilla's motives at the moment, there is no way that Priscilla is going along with Clare with out a compromise. These two are going to have to sort their differences and its going to happen this december! .

"I'll let you free if you let me save my friends (and you won't do anything to them,of course).After that we'll have our duel".

That would be the compromise....but it's not exactly like saying that they'll work together.....

About the left arm as a gift, I mean that if you give a gift to someone even if that someone is not that important to you, you will be concerned if you find other ppl using that gift, lol I don't even know what I'm trying to say, but it makes sense to me that Priscilla will be mad to know that some newly born Ao's are going about feeling all powerfull with something that didn't belonged to them in the first place.

Imo you are looking at this from a wrong angle.Her gift to Raki wasn't her arm,the gift was "saving his life".
I doubt she cares about her arm since it was already "used".

[yononaka]

Originally Posted by ATM

What would you do if you got into a huge brawl and happened to K.O. the opponent that was in front of you, knowing that there are more oppoents behind you. Would you keep hitting the guy you just K.O. or would you try to get ready to face your other opponents? and what if you where armless? What Miria Did was very reasonable, she defeated her opponent and got ready to face yet some more; she knew she won the battle but not the war, so she was just looking for some cover while she was able to regenerate her severed arm and figure a reasonable way out of these situation, even if that included joining forces with Roxane. But I things where happening so fast that boom Hysteria went biki biki, before she could even go and try to chop her head off; and even if she was able to, does anyone thinks that at this point Miria choping Hysterias head hould have made any difference?

K.O.-d opponents in a real life brawl generally have no chance of power boosting out of it.

And yes, there is no evidence right now that the awakening could not have been prevented by decapitation. Dae could have just reanimated the headless Teresa if having a head made no difference in the process and he was only looking to draw Priscilla out.

@Malak

But Miria did know Hysteria had previously died and was still out fighting her, didn't she? So taking stronger countermeasures would've been a smart move.

[ATM]

Originally Posted by yononaka

K.O.-d opponents in a real life brawl generally have no chance of power boosting out of it.

And yes, there is no evidence right now that the awakening could not have been prevented by decapitation. Dae could have just reanimated the headless Teresa if having a head made no difference in the process and he was only looking to draw Priscilla out.

Yep... but there is no evidence that Miria is that savy, which means that she can make mistakes from time to time, hell it all was happening so darn fast that she forgot to chop a head (lol?). All I'm saying is give the poor woman a brake, she is being through alot and the fact that she is going to be through a lot more, is understating the direness of her situation. One arm Miria in the middle of what it seems to become a 3 Ao's playground.

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

@yononaka and Falcor

Bha,imo it's not so strange.
Given the fatal blow that Histy suffered it makes sense that her yoki became almost impreceptible,and if you consider that Miria has never been great at yoki reading, that she is damn close to HUGE sources of yoki that obviously disturb her senses and that she's also very worried about all the other warriors, i'd say it's not surprising that she didn't notice that Histy was not completely dead.

....but it's also possible that when she suffered her fatal blow her body completely shut down for a bit (not sure i'd call it "death",but whatever,that's just semantics).

You just made the counter-point; thanks.

Tbh in concrete i don't see an huge difference and i also don't see why Cassy's awakening would have helped Miria to predict what happened with Histy,it's not that Cassy suffered a fatal wound and suddenly awakened,on the contrary her awakening was absolutely "canon": warior gets mad,warrior awaken.Don't see any particular hint here tbh.

Not so much how Cassie awakened, but taking into account what these three all have in common. After seeing one awaken, Miria should have deduced the very high probability the others would follow suit, especially under the circumstances. Yes, she had other concerns on her plate to deal with, but being an experienced warrior she would never casually dismiss such a threat. It would make sense to finish off her current opponent before moving on, which is what I see depicted in this scene. For all intents and purposes, Hysteria was dead (semantics aside. )

[yononaka]

Originally Posted by ATM

Yep... but there is no evidence that Miria is that savy, which means that she can make mistakes from time to time, hell it all was happening so darn fast that she forgot to chop a head (lol?). All I'm saying is give the poor woman a brake, she is being through alot and the fact that she is going to be through a lot more, is understating the direness of her situation. One arm Miria in the middle of what it seems to become a 3 Ao's playground.

Me giving Miria a brake could adversely impact her Phantom. More seriously, it's about not giving a break to the author, not the character.

@Falcor
I didn't think of it initially, but even with Hysteria looking/feeling completely dead it wouldn't be a good idea to leave her lying around when you know she has already been dead and then came back.

[ATM]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

"I'll let you free if you let me save my friends (and you won't do anything to them,of course).After that we'll have our duel".

That would be the compromise....but it's not exactly like saying that they'll work together.....


Imo you are looking at this from a wrong angle.Her gift to Raki wasn't her arm,the gift was "saving his life".
I doubt she cares about her arm since it was already "used".

you are totally right, but her arm was "saving his life"... and now is saving the life of 3 complete strangers, that is so very rude, she has to be angry about it

[MalakTawus]

@yononaka

@Malak

But Miria did know Hysteria had previously died and was still out fighting her, didn't she? So taking stronger countermeasures would've been a smart move.

She IMPALED her opponent in the neck,and what she saw would have tricked ANYONE that Histy was dead,especially since Miria knows very well that "faking death" is something that Histy would have NEVER ever dared to do since she's too proud.
Also Histy during the fight never showed any strange signs,for example Histy didn't even show any evidence to possess a regen ability.
There was no indication that could have lead Miria to belive that those 3 wouldn't be killed if impaled in the neck,especially since she saw Histy falling down like that right in front of her eyes.
It's easy for us to judge since we know what happened next and since we are just readers,BUT if we put ourselves in her shoes it's pretty obvious to see (if we are honest) that if we see someone with an huge sword in the neck,that speaks as if she's dying,that falls right in front of us and that it's impossible for that type of warrior to use a tactic like "fake death".....well anyone would have concluded that that warrior is dead....especially if your situation is still VERY bad and you are worried about the comrades that are dying all around you......

Seriously, there is nothing strange for Miria to think that Histy was dead.

@Falcor

You just made the counter-point; thanks.

Oh,i see. That's what you meant. I already said that in a previous post and surely i agree that it's totally possible that that's what happened, my point is that even in the case that that scenario din't happen it's not so strange formiria to not have noticed that Histy wasn't completely dead.

@ATM

you are totally right, but her arm was "saving his life"... and now is saving the life of 3 complete strangers, that is so very rude, she has to be angry about it

If you put it that way i guess it's possible that Prissy will get mad that her arm was used for something that wasn't her original purpose....but tbh the way i imagine things i always see her quite happy to be able to "play" with those new toys,but that's just my imagination,of course i could be totally wrong,lol.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by ATM

yeah.

Shiek927 said a while ago that priscilla's power was around "an abisal one x3" and he was probably right, as Dae confirms that only her left arm contains the power and energy of a single abisal one. So doing the math and considering she has 5 limbs (including her head and not counting her wings and torso) could she probably have the power of 5 abisal ones all in one? that will be like uber crazy.

Please, lets not get into that debate again. It was bad enough the first time.

[yononaka]

@Malak

My point this time was that even Hysteria being dead wouldn't be a guarantee of her not getting up from it when you know she's already done that once by a means unknown to you.

[MalakTawus]

100% OFFTOPIC:

Spoiler for Skyrim.....:

Skyrim will be out soon! Can't wait to create my "Claire" character and go around killing monsters!!!!

@yononaka

My point this time was that even Hysteria being dead wouldn't be a guarantee of her not getting up from it when you know she's already done that once by a means unknown to you.

I understand what you are saying,but imo one thing is accepting that the org was able with some strange process to bring those 3 back to life, another thing is beliving that those 3 don't die even if you put a sword in their neck and they REALLY act like they are dead in front of your eyes....especially if you don't have time to think since you are still in the very middle of an uber dangerous battle.
Cut Miria some slack,come on! It's not that she was analyzing the situation sitted on a couch while drinking wine. (i just like the image,lol)

Also it's quite probable that Miria was analyzing Histy during the fight,and that could have actually tricked her since she surely noticed two evidences:
-Histy feels pain
-Histy doesn't regen her wounds
These two indications surely wouldn't let someone to think that Histy should go on fighting if her body gets injured too much (since she doesn't regen).