AnimeSuki Forums

ZODDGUTS · 2011-01-15, 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

I am figuring it out from reality there are much worse past stories than this. For me its seriously too much overreaction to keep throwing guy who is nothing but anice guy for under the wheels just fora sad past like this (which isnt even the worst kind of past really).

It was pretty dumb of her of letting herself get video tape in the first place. I mean did she ever think of what would happen after they break up especially if it's a nasty breakup, he could have leaked it to get back at her. Just dumb.

GrimJack · 2011-01-15, 23:12

you are, of course, assuming she knew she was being video taped which may or may not be true.

n0c0ntr0l · 2011-01-16, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimJack

you are, of course, assuming she knew she was being video taped which may or may not be true.

I cannot wait to release 66. It isn't a surprise for me, but a lot of GE readers owe me money!

Darknemo2000 · 2011-01-16, 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimJack

you are, of course, assuming she knew she was being video taped which may or may not be true.

Yeah but the spoiler implies that way. Though it can be understood either way:

Spoiler for way:

n0c0ntr0l · 2011-01-16, 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Yeah but the spoiler implies that way. Though it can be understood either way:

Spoiler for way:

I have to agree

Spoiler for 66:

Darknemo2000 · 2011-01-16, 05:15

Yeah besides in the spoilers it doesnt say

Spoiler for say:

So all and all it points that it was taped with Yuki's consent, which makes her dumb for allowing to do that. And makes her look only worse now, that because of her past (which part is because of her own stupidity) she has been stuck up bitch for so long and keeps shitting in Utsu's heart regularly still.

n0c0ntr0l · 2011-01-16, 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Yeah besides in the spoilers it doesnt say

Spoiler for say:

So all and all it points that it was taped with Yuki's consent, which makes her dumb for allowing to do that. And makes her look only worse now, that because of her past (which part is because of her own stupidity) she has been stuck up bitch for so long and keeps shitting in Utsu's heart regularly still.

Spoiler for 66:

I do slightly agree though. She has been a stuck up bitch with Utsumi. Many a time reading her being mean to Utsumi has felt like watching her fling cute golden retriever puppies into a river. I think though that the slaps that she got however were the perfect counter for that because it caused her to stop and actually look at how her actions looked to other people.

MrTerrorist · 2011-01-16, 06:55

Spoiler for c65:

Waven · 2011-01-16, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Yeah besides in the spoilers it doesnt say

Spoiler for say:

So all and all it points that it was taped with Yuki's consent, which makes her dumb for allowing to do that. And makes her look only worse now, that because of her past (which part is because of her own stupidity) she has been stuck up bitch for so long and keeps shitting in Utsu's heart regularly still.

Spoiler for :

And of course the main heroine has to be flawed ( I can't believe I am writing this once again here or at the KNIM thread). If Yuki was mature enough and not as strict with her feelings we would have a perfect couple by the time Shou dumped Utsumi but that's obviously not what the majority of the readership wants.

I know some like to see a definite couple from the beginning (or early chapters) and how this couple deals with issues of being a couple but looking at the current trend those kind of series are niche products within the shounen(/shoujo) sphere.

Darknemo2000 · 2011-01-16, 08:31

For me looks like a plain bitch. No mater what past you had it is no excuse to be treating innocent people badly.

I think Eri is the best girl, ironically she is not interested. Risa and Shou are ok, with their ups and downs, but drama queen Yuki is a living hell. I can already imagine what kind of horrible wife she would be - throwing drama over the smallest things. And the only way she would forgive (would never apologize first even if its her fault) if you crawl back begging for forgiveness. Of course since hero is a doormat it may work out for him, having such conceited wife. Still, anyone but her.

Haru~ · 2011-01-16, 09:10

Hey Waven check this out:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar

It's part of the story. That's how life goes as well, it isn't always fun and play. This is exactly the mindset I outlined: You lack the maturity to deal with the strain the story is putting on you. The situation is frustrating, so you are frustrated, so the story sucks. Read simpler stories instead.

Let's read simpler stories other than this one if we are frustrated.

I'm getting mad at this one, but I still find it hard to drop. I'm still hoping someone will knock some sense to Utsumi and go to Shou instead.

Mughi · 2011-01-16, 12:53

I'm biting my nails to see if ANYTHING new is really revealed in 66. Somehow I feel like I'm being trolled, but it COULD be that we'll finally find out whatever truth that Yuki wants to let out.

Spoiler:

From the beginning of this story, Yuki has had no pretensions about loving Utsumi. She sees a guy who is fascinated by another girl, and to soothe her own injured ego, she tries to help him and prove to herself that a guy, ANY guy CAN treat his love respectfully, follow etiquette, decorum and properly woo his intended love. If she can prove to herself that "normal" love exists instead of the torn, twisted and hurtful ordeal she went through, she hopes she too can come to love and trust again. (This doesn't ONLY happen to young people, there are LOTS of damaged goods of ALL ages, walking around this world, living in self-doubt and pain over the poorly chosen actions of the people they trusted.) Yuki wasn't out to get Utsumi to love her, that was an unintended consequence of the real, original her coming out and guiding him. HE pursued HER... damaged, unsure, confused and untrusting her... On the outside she may SEEM cold and bitchy, but that's part of her defenses. He puts up with it because he feels she's going to be worth it. Perhaps he IS setting himself up for a life of walking on eggshells, but it is HIS choice to engage with Yuki, so if he breaks some eggs in reaching for her and must clean up the mess, it is his choice.

I like their paring. Yuki brings much to Utsumi and he has profited greatly in self-worth and increased ability to take-on life from her. Utsumi also has much to give to Yuki, but she must be willing to accept it. The ultimate tension and sweet payoff of this series will be in seeing her transformation.

jzmagic · 2011-01-16, 14:13

Spoiler:

Arturro · 2011-01-16, 16:31

@jzmagic - Yuki made a mistake. A minor mistake, though she think it was a disaster. She hurt only herself. Just because of that one mistake you think she is no more worth enough to gain happiness? Shou also made an mistake, or to be more precise - she was tricked. Lots of posters here hate her, call her "spoiled" or "unworthy" of being with Utsumi. She is no different form Yuki - both made an mistake, both were tricked because of being too trusting. I suppose all Yuki or Shou haters here never made any mistake, never hurt anybody because of stupidity, always acted rationally and with dignity. Otherwise both Yuki and Shou haters are hypocrites.
Utsumi is a nice, but gutless, guy. He is not a pagan god, higher being or something. Just average guy. His partner doesn't has to be a pure maiden, there is no reason why he should be only with a girl who is able to give him a bloody sacrifice.

Darknemo2000 · 2011-01-16, 18:05

Its not about just one mistake. Its about Yuki being a bitch and she doesn't seem like person one would want to spend a life with or actually could stay with her unless you one has masochistic tendencies. She looks like the type who throws tantrums over nothing, is not willing to talk about it because in her self-conceited little mind you need to figure it out or else it is not worth it. She is kind of emotional vampire who will suck on the relationship but is not feeling to need to give anything in return and if she does - expects you to cherish like its a god gift, and will only make up if you go at her apologizing to her even if it is not your fault at all.

I just cant tolerate people like that. Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyones are bitches and bastards because of that.

And to deny your words, Arturo, Utsu doesn't make big mistakes at least for now. All his mistakes can never compare to Yuki or Shou ones so we can talk about different level of mistakes all together (small screw ups - everyone makes, big ones - not all and thus feel like those who screw up big time are worth to be judged) which brings the discussion to different stuff.

Haru~ · 2011-01-16, 18:21

It's not about the past mistakes, it's how you deal with it. Yuki is now being a girl who can't move her feet forward. Causing pain to people who care about her (Utsumi dumped now for XXX times and Shou, Risa, and even the cousin). And what's more if the spoiler is true, I don't know if I can pity her anymore. I feel bad for Utsumi, having all the guts to chase her everytime, only to be crushed because of her past mistake.
Shou on the other hand, made a mistake, but apologize for her mistakes, fall in love, and moved her feet forward. I think she's the most developed character in this series. (I just hope her ex-bf will not come back).

Darknemo2000 · 2011-01-16, 18:29

Yes, what Haru~ mentioned is spot on.

While as Artuuro said the Yuki and Shou both made mistakes, the difference between them is that Shou moved on - if she was like yuki then she would be bitch for a year, maybe even changing schools but she was quick to regain herself.

She had Utsu at her side? Yes, but at the same time she was searching out for someone, while Yuki did play her victim role to the fullest hurting everyone around her just because of that.

That is the difference between Shou and Yuiki - one is willing to move one, while the other despite everything is still not able to do it just yet.

Thats why I think if Utsu ended with Shou it would be much better than him ending with Yuki. Yes he is willing to go length for Yuki and desires her but not everything what you desire is good for you - I can desire narcotics but it doesn't mean that my friends should just wtach and support me as a kill my life (and frankly relationship with Yuki in my opinion is screwing ones life that we have seen so many times - even most kindhearted guys will blow up eventually when the other side is throwing tantrums over smallest things, go overly emotional and is not willing to make the first step to apology - once that guy would be tired of it and will not try to mend things up and will be a broken relationship that we have seen plenty off. Yuki and Utsu have nice chemistry as friends but Yuki as am lover is a living hell - and if all one can rely is one Utsu being spineless and not having his ego for relationship to work out then it is better off without it).

aliasxn · 2011-01-16, 19:21

Spoiler for 66:

Moreover, Yuki is NOT a bitch. Taiga from Toradora, or Kirino from Ore No Imouto, they were bitches. They constantly abused the male lead both physically and verbally despite the guys' going far beyond any reasonable boundaries to please them. Yuki is not like that. From day 1 she has been nothing but nice and supportive towards Utsumi, hence why he fell for her. But she's got her issues. She didn't throw a tantrum over nothing, or rather, it didn't seem like nothing to her. A "compromising picture" coupled with Utsumi's dismissive response and complete lack of fucking tactic afterwards are what caused the situation to escalate. Being a nice guy would normally earn you extra points in that situation, but the last guy she was in love with was also a very nice guy apparently. It makes perfect sense that Yuki is 100x more defensive than the regular girl.

Also, her situation is nothing like Shou's, how anyone even compare that? There's nothing that happened to Shou that would cause her to leave town, she wasn't humiliated in front of every person she knows.

Waven · 2011-01-16, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

snip ...

At some point in the story Yuki is eventually going to move on, that's pretty much a given. So once she's over her past and loosens up she should be the perfect girl huh?
But hey, I guess Shou is still a zillion times better since she managed to move on faster than Yuki ... and of course that's just because being cheated on is on the same level as having your sex taped and shown to others, right? riiiiiight !

So I know what Yuki did for Utsumi, she taught him self-confidence and how to converse with girls. So what again did Shou for him? She's super submissive - Oh yeah that's how I like my girls!
As for doing harm, both hurt him. Keep me informed if there's a way to measure the level of harm.

And don't get me even started on the matter of Utsumi supposedly being a wuss. Let's just say he's an intended reflection of the target readership (identifying process and stuff) so these guys actually exist and even though you may have no respect for them maybe, just maybe they deserve a small piece of happiness as well? And while you're at it cut all the mentally scarred girls and women some slack as well.

Darknemo2000 · 2011-01-16, 19:50

Yuki will move on but I doubt it will fix her personality issues (making drama over smallest things, not apologizing etc) thats why even if she moves on I still consider her to be a girlfriend from hell really.

And yes Shou's past is actually just as bad if not worse - she for sure knows the person she loved betrayed her, while about Yuki it is still not clear as she never talked to him so it may be something else completely, having a tape spread out is bad, but if she consented to that then she is also herself fault at this.

In fact I consider Shou's situation worse than Yuki's yes I do - certainly there are just as much rumors about Shou when she is walking around with hickeys, it just never is portrayed, but anyone who studied at school know how fast such rumors spread and it wasn't just Utsu who saw the marks of sex (hickeys in Japan are understood just as that). And Shou knows that she was betrayed while Yuki doesn't for sure (there may be many different things that made that result and the fact that he never got to talk to her in such manga only strengthens the suspense that it may not be as crystal clear really - maybe it was again Yuki jumping to fast conclusions).

And don't bother replying to this post - I will ignore it, as I don't want into another endless grinding of opinions again (we had way too much of that already). For me - Yuki is a bitch, for you - she's an angel in the making, fine. Leave it at that.

aliasxn, Taiga is a bitch too BTW. Just they are on a different levels - Taiga is a bitch more directly hurting the hero more in physical way, while Yuki a bitch who keeps hurting him mentally. Even if she doesn't always intend it to be this way (neither does Taiga btw it just her personality that gets in the way) the result is still the same.

2011-01-15, 23:12	Link #1902
GrimJack Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009	you are, of course, assuming she knew she was being video taped which may or may not be true. __________________

2011-01-16, 05:15	Link #1906
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	Yeah besides in the spoilers it doesnt say Spoiler for say: "the first time" but rather "that time" which means they had sex before, just that time is special because it was taped and Yuki gave in allowing it to be taped. So all and all it points that it was taped with Yuki's consent, which makes her dumb for allowing to do that. And makes her look only worse now, that because of her past (which part is because of her own stupidity) she has been stuck up bitch for so long and keeps shitting in Utsu's heart regularly still.

2011-01-16, 06:55	Link #1908
MrTerrorist Takao Tsundere Cruiser Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Classified	Spoiler for c65: Finally somebody slaps Kurokawa! __________________

2011-01-16, 12:53	Link #1912
Mughi Wordy b@stard Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mid-Tejas	I'm biting my nails to see if ANYTHING new is really revealed in 66. Somehow I feel like I'm being trolled, but it COULD be that we'll finally find out whatever truth that Yuki wants to let out. Spoiler: If she consented to being taped and her boyfriend let it out, there are basically two main ways a person could react to it. Paris Hilton style, where you publicize it to defuse it and simultaneously make yourself profit through perceived power, indifference, coolness, raised value (to some people) or, react negatively and withdraw. (showing up as either regret and sadness, or stoic indifference) There are obviously many shades of grey between these two and any single person will have a mix of these reactions to one degree or another. It is not out of range to have a person of delicate self esteem react SO negatively as to commit suicide or severely lash out at the world for the hurt they feel at the betrayal of trust. In the example of Yuki, she seems to have withdrawn having been hurt very much by whatever the result of Touru's actions were. (Sex tape being handed around or not) To a young girl, especially, who has placed her relationship of love and trust in a person she has known since childhood, to be betrayed by them in such a public, toxic and hurtful way WOULD cause mental distress. She WOULD be utterly untrusting and confused. From the beginning of this story, Yuki has had no pretensions about loving Utsumi. She sees a guy who is fascinated by another girl, and to soothe her own injured ego, she tries to help him and prove to herself that a guy, ANY guy CAN treat his love respectfully, follow etiquette, decorum and properly woo his intended love. If she can prove to herself that "normal" love exists instead of the torn, twisted and hurtful ordeal she went through, she hopes she too can come to love and trust again. (This doesn't ONLY happen to young people, there are LOTS of damaged goods of ALL ages, walking around this world, living in self-doubt and pain over the poorly chosen actions of the people they trusted.) Yuki wasn't out to get Utsumi to love her, that was an unintended consequence of the real, original her coming out and guiding him. HE pursued HER... damaged, unsure, confused and untrusting her... On the outside she may SEEM cold and bitchy, but that's part of her defenses. He puts up with it because he feels she's going to be worth it. Perhaps he IS setting himself up for a life of walking on eggshells, but it is HIS choice to engage with Yuki, so if he breaks some eggs in reaching for her and must clean up the mess, it is his choice. I like their paring. Yuki brings much to Utsumi and he has profited greatly in self-worth and increased ability to take-on life from her. Utsumi also has much to give to Yuki, but she must be willing to accept it. The ultimate tension and sweet payoff of this series will be in seeing her transformation.

2011-01-16, 14:13	Link #1913
jzmagic flargansbog Join Date: Mar 2006	Spoiler: If Yuki did agree to have it taped, then I lost all respect for her, and can't support a Yuki x Utsumi ending any more.

2011-01-16, 08:31	Link #1910
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	For me looks like a plain bitch. No mater what past you had it is no excuse to be treating innocent people badly. I think Eri is the best girl, ironically she is not interested. Risa and Shou are ok, with their ups and downs, but drama queen Yuki is a living hell. I can already imagine what kind of horrible wife she would be - throwing drama over the smallest things. And the only way she would forgive (would never apologize first even if its her fault) if you crawl back begging for forgiveness. Of course since hero is a doormat it may work out for him, having such conceited wife. Still, anyone but her.

2011-01-16, 16:31	Link #1914
Arturro Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cracow Age: 46	@jzmagic - Yuki made a mistake. A minor mistake, though she think it was a disaster. She hurt only herself. Just because of that one mistake you think she is no more worth enough to gain happiness? Shou also made an mistake, or to be more precise - she was tricked. Lots of posters here hate her, call her "spoiled" or "unworthy" of being with Utsumi. She is no different form Yuki - both made an mistake, both were tricked because of being too trusting. I suppose all Yuki or Shou haters here never made any mistake, never hurt anybody because of stupidity, always acted rationally and with dignity. Otherwise both Yuki and Shou haters are hypocrites. Utsumi is a nice, but gutless, guy. He is not a pagan god, higher being or something. Just average guy. His partner doesn't has to be a pure maiden, there is no reason why he should be only with a girl who is able to give him a bloody sacrifice. __________________ I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.

2011-01-16, 18:05	Link #1915
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	Its not about just one mistake. Its about Yuki being a bitch and she doesn't seem like person one would want to spend a life with or actually could stay with her unless you one has masochistic tendencies. She looks like the type who throws tantrums over nothing, is not willing to talk about it because in her self-conceited little mind you need to figure it out or else it is not worth it. She is kind of emotional vampire who will suck on the relationship but is not feeling to need to give anything in return and if she does - expects you to cherish like its a god gift, and will only make up if you go at her apologizing to her even if it is not your fault at all. I just cant tolerate people like that. Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyones are bitches and bastards because of that. And to deny your words, Arturo, Utsu doesn't make big mistakes at least for now. All his mistakes can never compare to Yuki or Shou ones so we can talk about different level of mistakes all together (small screw ups - everyone makes, big ones - not all and thus feel like those who screw up big time are worth to be judged) which brings the discussion to different stuff.

2011-01-16, 18:21	Link #1916
Haru~ My Lovely Bunny Chie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Philippines Age: 35	It's not about the past mistakes, it's how you deal with it. Yuki is now being a girl who can't move her feet forward. Causing pain to people who care about her (Utsumi dumped now for XXX times and Shou, Risa, and even the cousin). And what's more if the spoiler is true, I don't know if I can pity her anymore. I feel bad for Utsumi, having all the guts to chase her everytime, only to be crushed because of her past mistake. Shou on the other hand, made a mistake, but apologize for her mistakes, fall in love, and moved her feet forward. I think she's the most developed character in this series. (I just hope her ex-bf will not come back). __________________ formerly rave_master16

2011-01-16, 18:29	Link #1917
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	Yes, what Haru~ mentioned is spot on. While as Artuuro said the Yuki and Shou both made mistakes, the difference between them is that Shou moved on - if she was like yuki then she would be bitch for a year, maybe even changing schools but she was quick to regain herself. She had Utsu at her side? Yes, but at the same time she was searching out for someone, while Yuki did play her victim role to the fullest hurting everyone around her just because of that. That is the difference between Shou and Yuiki - one is willing to move one, while the other despite everything is still not able to do it just yet. Thats why I think if Utsu ended with Shou it would be much better than him ending with Yuki. Yes he is willing to go length for Yuki and desires her but not everything what you desire is good for you - I can desire narcotics but it doesn't mean that my friends should just wtach and support me as a kill my life (and frankly relationship with Yuki in my opinion is screwing ones life that we have seen so many times - even most kindhearted guys will blow up eventually when the other side is throwing tantrums over smallest things, go overly emotional and is not willing to make the first step to apology - once that guy would be tired of it and will not try to mend things up and will be a broken relationship that we have seen plenty off. Yuki and Utsu have nice chemistry as friends but Yuki as am lover is a living hell - and if all one can rely is one Utsu being spineless and not having his ego for relationship to work out then it is better off without it).

2011-01-16, 19:21	Link #1918
aliasxn Eye for an Eye Join Date: Apr 2008	Spoiler for 66: Wait, where is this coming from? Is it really implied that that she consented to it? Moreover, Yuki is NOT a bitch. Taiga from Toradora, or Kirino from Ore No Imouto, they were bitches. They constantly abused the male lead both physically and verbally despite the guys' going far beyond any reasonable boundaries to please them. Yuki is not like that. From day 1 she has been nothing but nice and supportive towards Utsumi, hence why he fell for her. But she's got her issues. She didn't throw a tantrum over nothing, or rather, it didn't seem like nothing to her. A "compromising picture" coupled with Utsumi's dismissive response and complete lack of fucking tactic afterwards are what caused the situation to escalate. Being a nice guy would normally earn you extra points in that situation, but the last guy she was in love with was also a very nice guy apparently. It makes perfect sense that Yuki is 100x more defensive than the regular girl. Also, her situation is nothing like Shou's, how anyone even compare that? There's nothing that happened to Shou that would cause her to leave town, she wasn't humiliated in front of every person she knows. __________________

2011-01-16, 19:50	Link #1920
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	Yuki will move on but I doubt it will fix her personality issues (making drama over smallest things, not apologizing etc) thats why even if she moves on I still consider her to be a girlfriend from hell really. And yes Shou's past is actually just as bad if not worse - she for sure knows the person she loved betrayed her, while about Yuki it is still not clear as she never talked to him so it may be something else completely, having a tape spread out is bad, but if she consented to that then she is also herself fault at this. In fact I consider Shou's situation worse than Yuki's yes I do - certainly there are just as much rumors about Shou when she is walking around with hickeys, it just never is portrayed, but anyone who studied at school know how fast such rumors spread and it wasn't just Utsu who saw the marks of sex (hickeys in Japan are understood just as that). And Shou knows that she was betrayed while Yuki doesn't for sure (there may be many different things that made that result and the fact that he never got to talk to her in such manga only strengthens the suspense that it may not be as crystal clear really - maybe it was again Yuki jumping to fast conclusions). And don't bother replying to this post - I will ignore it, as I don't want into another endless grinding of opinions again (we had way too much of that already). For me - Yuki is a bitch, for you - she's an angel in the making, fine. Leave it at that. aliasxn, Taiga is a bitch too BTW. Just they are on a different levels - Taiga is a bitch more directly hurting the hero more in physical way, while Yuki a bitch who keeps hurting him mentally. Even if she doesn't always intend it to be this way (neither does Taiga btw it just her personality that gets in the way) the result is still the same.