Hyouka - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[Hyper]

By the end, I'm rooted to my seat and speechless. Great episode.

Originally Posted by papermario13689

One thing that I still notice all the time: why are the girls airheaded and the guys are quick to clue in? I mean, in anime (especially harems) we do see a ton of brainless apes wandering around with dumb looks on their faces, but it does feel quite odd that the genders contrast so much here. It's always Chitanda and Ibara saying "what do you mean?" and the males stepping in with immediate answers. Hey, I like the new approach, but I just thought I'd mention that.

I see your point, but to be fair, Houtarou has the role to explain, and Satoshi just give information. So it leaves the ever-curious Eru and you-can't-solve-it-again Mayaka to ask the leading questions. Satoshi didn't figure out "Hyouka" until Houtarou gave the hint either, so it's not like he's "smarter."

Other than that, I agree with the rest of your quote and OceanBlue's. So much attention to the details. It's a feast for the eyes. It also makes a lot of scenes look alive despite the fact that not much actions are actually going on. I started getting a chill when Houtarou give the hint too. That's when I finally understand the name. The rabbit scene after that just complete the effect.

I don't agree with the comments about "Shaft-style" though. I didn't watch all Shaft's shows (only Moonphase, Denpa Onna to Seishun Otoko, 3/4 of Bake, and a couple episodes of other shows) but I think the animations here actually use to explain the story along with the dialog rather than being symbols.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

The character design for Itoigawa-sensei as a 16 year-old – despite the fact that this was likely the only time we’ll see it - was absolutely lovely – expressive, vulnerable, beautiful.

The entire montage of Itoigawa-sensei’s trip down memory line was breathtaking – not just the art itself, which was admirable enough, but the idea of having Itoigawa inhabiting herself as an innocent schoolgirl, eavesdropping on the scenes from those days, peeking in windows and through doors, wanting to intervene but unable to do more than observe. It was beautiful and profound – a clever and insightful way of encapsulating the experience of remembering a long ago time full of joys and regrets. The art design for Hyouka isn’t just skillful, it’s ingenious. There’s so much creativity going into it, it’s as if there’s two different screenplays at work in the show, the written one and the visual one. And the second one is more creative and arresting than the first.

Yep. That was great. I like the fact that only her is colored and alive, the rest is "environment" which her memories isn't so vivid compare to that of herself.

All in all, I think they did a great job using animation to tell a story. Sometimes when there are so much information presented as a dialog rather than action or narration, the animation is just there to show character speak. But here they use it to enhancing the storytelling or showing what's going on in characters' mind.

I also like the comment she give that looking back, the students' actions were foolish. Sacrifying a person's future because of school festival's shortening is really not worth it from an adult point of view. Thinking back, I too was passionated about some things during high school that when I look back now, it seems a little foolish to spend to so many restless nights and arguing with the teachers about them.

And so looks like that's it for the niece of time. Right now this is my most favorite show currently airing, bar none. Let's see how it goes from here.

[FlareKnight]

Hate to say it, but I totally needed Houtarou to write down the pun at the end . Which is ridiculous since I've heard the "ice cream = i scream" thing used way back when I was a kid. Of course when you think about it the context is completely different from how it was used for kids. Those were happy screams for the ice cream truck, while for Jun it was something much more painful. It is a lame pun, but it was all that Jun could do. Sending his scream through the ages and the Classics Club. He couldn't do anything against those that sacrificed him, so at least he could send his scream in that fashion.

It really does suck how things turned out for Jun. Like I thought the lines that they discounted were important. It really wasn't the story of a hero. He never wanted the role and it was forced on him because he was unlucky and no one else was willing to step up and take the public role. Really dislike the guy who was actually in charge, but never stepped forward when he should have.

I'm glad in the end Chitanda got the answers she needed. She was finally able to understand her Uncle and remember what he told her. Truly that it would be terrible to be trapped in that position. He walked off like a stoic hero, but really all he wanted to do was scream. Looking back on those who knew that he shouldn't have had to take responsibility, but being unwilling to take the hit for him.

Of course this was also a major episode of Houtarou himself. He could have left it alone and while Chitanda wouldn't have been fully satisfied it probably could have ended there. Instead he couldn't step back after talking to his sister and realize he was missing something. He really went all out and pushed himself beyond what he ever would have considered doing. He found all the answers and in the end Chitanda can say goodby to her Uncle without missing those memories.

[Hyper]

I just realized that I don't understand what everyone is talking about Ice Cream and kindergartner's song. I didn't grow up in English-speaking environment (as if it's not obvious from my language ) so can somehow explain/show me what is this referring to?

[Hiroi Sekai]

Originally Posted by Hyper

I see your point, but to be fair, Houtarou has the role to explain, and Satoshi just give information. So it leaves the ever-curious Eru and you-can't-solve-it-again Mayaka to ask the leading questions. Satoshi didn't figure out "Hyouka" until Houtarou gave the hint either, so it's not like he's "smarter."

Other than that, I agree with the rest of your quote and OceanBlue's. So much attention to the details. It's a feast for the eyes. It also makes a lot of scenes look alive despite the fact that not much actions are actually going on. I started getting a chill when Houtarou give the hint too. That's when I finally understand the name. The rabbit scene after that just complete the effect.

Yup, I agree here too, but to this point the scenes straight out show Houtarou cluing in on key points while the two girls sitting in awe while he explains. He just feels like he's on a higher level to me as a result, especially when Ibara keeps saying stuff along the lines of "wow, I worked with her for a long time and didn't even notice!". Still, I'm not saying they're dumb or anything, it's just odd and new to see a male protagonist who actually knows his stuff. I see that as a good thing; lord knows we need more lead harem protagonists who are retarded as rocks. Sorry, that's an insult to rocks and anyone who studies them.

Originally Posted by Hyper

I just realized that I don't understand what everyone is talking about Ice Cream and kindergartner's song. I didn't grow up in English-speaking environment (as if it's not obvious from my language ) so can somehow explain/show me what is this referring to?

It's an old children's tune. "I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream!"- it's a clever little thing that we subconsciously pick up at an early age and fully understand later on without really being taught it. I kind of appreciate it more, now that I've said it.

[Hyper]

Originally Posted by papermario13689

Yup, I agree here too, but to this point the scenes straight out show Houtarou cluing in on key points while the two girls sitting in awe while he explains. He just feels like he's on a higher level to me as a result, especially when Ibara keeps saying stuff along the lines of "wow, I worked with her for a long time and didn't even notice!". Still, I'm not saying they're dumb or anything, it's just odd and new to see a male protagonist who actually knows his stuff. I see that as a good thing; lord knows we need more lead harem protagonists who are retarded as rocks. Sorry, that's an insult to rocks and anyone who studies them.

I see. I don't think a clever MC is that rare (this is not really a harem though. Not so far, at least), but I do think that a clever and not arrogant/having superiority complex is hard to come by. I like Houtarou because of this so far.

Originally Posted by papermario13689

It's an old children's tune. "I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream!"- it's a clever little thing that we subconsciously pick up at an early age and fully understand later on without really being taught it. I kind of appreciate it more, now that I've said it.

I see. Thanks!

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Nope, just coincidences

The director for Sankarea, Shinichi Omata, worked on multiple Shaft production.

Amnesia is by the studio Silver Link, whose many staff were from Shaft originally.

And don't forget that the director of Hyouka, Takemoto worked with Shinbo when he directed/storyboarded two episodes of SoulTaker (3+6) that KyoAni were outsourced to do back in the days before they did their own productions.

[ronelm2000]

I shall call Hyouka Ice Cream from now on, and Hyouka's official OS is the Ice Cream Sandwich.

A wonderful episode, I say. Those explanations... those clues the author left behind, even including that old building, it all made perfect sense. As expected for a mystery "classic". Hmm... so it he was a scapegoat huh. Sad tragedy indeed. He was indeed a hero, but for the damn wrong reason.

So far a 10/10. This series does a good job so far, being flexible enough to turn a 2001 novel to a competing 2012 anime.

[MeoTwister5]

Now I understand why I the show pulls me in every damn week. There's nothing gripping at first glance and first impressions because apparently that's exactly how the show wants itself to be. There is nothing to take you in and stick with you the first episode because it demands your time, your attention and most of all your patience. I suddenly realize that I was lacking in the latter two despite being myself proud of having an eye for detail and patience as part of my medical training.

And then it hit me that I didn't peel enough and didn't listen enough. It's slightly embarrassing when I realized "Holy shit why didn't I realize this sooner?" when looking back I realized it was all there, I had seen it but didn't care enough. It's almost like taking a medical history of a patient and doing it almost so robotic that you miss out on the important things the patient says, the things that will end up being the diagnostic clincher.

Anyway I'm going to rewatch this again and look for things I missed, but for now, now I know why I watch this every damn week.

And with that this is the first time in a hell of the long time where every one of the shows I've picked up have been more than satisfying. So far none of the shows I've watched this season could be anywhere close to being disappointing. Enough to say that this is the strongest season for me in YEARS.

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by novalysis

Well, it is to be expected. The material currently being animated originates from 2001. That basically predates most of the source Light Novels whose anime adaptation set the standard for what is cliche for the general genre and story type Hyouka resides in.

In other words, since Hyouka predates most of the canon of Light Novels that set the standard of what is conventional, it's very unfair to lambest it for being unoriginal, because the very definition of what counts as Original in Hyoukas story type had not even yet colaced when Hyouka was written.

I really can't support that way of thinking. If the material you are adapting is outdated, then update it to current standards. Disney does it well. Ghibli does it well. The Seuss movies...don't. Point is, why adapt something for today's audience if it's not relevant to their time.

And honestly, I don't think the show is that dated. There's no Internet and it focuses on a school club, but it does mystery so much better than some other mystery anime, even if the stakes aren't great.

[Upscaled]

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst

And honestly, I don't think the show is that dated. There's no Internet and it focuses on a school club, but it does mystery so much better than some other mystery anime, even if the stakes aren't great.

I actually think that's a minor flaw with this production. You can see that they updated the dates. The original novel was published in 2001. It talks about the events of 1967 as happening 33 years earlier, so it takes place in 2000. The anime adaptation talks about the events of 1967 as happening 45 years ago. That means the events in the anime are supposed to take place in 2012.

The change in the dates makes Eru's uncle a bit old in relation to her. It's certainly not impossible, but it's unusual. But more importantly, it alters the context of Houtarou's sister's travels. As of episode 5, she's in Pristina, Kosovo. Kosovo in 2000 was only one year after the war, and probably far more dangerous than Pristina in 2012. Also, by 2012, one would think that Houtarou and his sister would be communicating by email or text messages, or even (shudder) Facebook, and not by post.

[ronelm2000]

^ Either that, or they moved the events of the past to 1947. Either way it's kinda...ugly.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst

I really can't support that way of thinking. If the material you are adapting is outdated, then update it to current standards. Disney does it well. Ghibli does it well. The Seuss movies...don't. Point is, why adapt something for today's audience if it's not relevant to their time.

And honestly, I don't think the show is that dated. There's no Internet and it focuses on a school club, but it does mystery so much better than some other mystery anime, even if the stakes aren't great.

The setting was not part of my argument.

I was referring to the general cliches of Light Novels that Hyouka seems to be under attack for showing a variant off. Nevermind that this volume of Hyouka pre-dates most of the conceptions and popularization of those cliches from other LNs written years after Hyouka itself.

For the writers to take that into account, they'd need to veer some of the plot and character interactions into clever anime-original territory. And that's a very, very risky move.

[-Sho-]

I admit that this episode was quite good compared to the others.
Good thing , Houtarou became less lazy & can do it when he want.
What happened to Jun was terrible , "I scream" lol good pun.
I don't remember if Chitanda already mentioned that first she asked to her parents for Uncle's case but didn't get any clues , cause isn't it easier to ask them?

Anyway , things which still bother me , moe & characters , atm they make a good group , 1 launcher , 1 solver , 2 supports but they aren't interestings imo.

[Somnus]

Great conclusion. The way it was presented at the end there I thought the season was actually done!

Hands down, one the best parts for me was the fact they animated Youko's life like that. It may only have been a few seconds, but I went frame by frame and enjoyed/appreciated all the changes they bothered to draw in all the stages of her life. You rarely get to see a character grow up in an anime, let alone go through that many changes in appearance. Kudos to KyoAni.

[ookamigirl]

Oreki contemplating Jun's motives, way of thinking and history.
Guess this case got him really interested.
The librarian got the third degree from the Classics club.
Looks like Jun was the forced hero of the cultural festival and scape goat for the whole incident.

[Qilin]

Initially, I found the mysteries to be bland and dry relative to its characters. However, my views have changed considerably within the last two episodes. The quality of the Kanya Festival mystery for me far surpassed anything that the show's cast could offer in personality or complexity.

Having read the translated first volume of the LN, I already knew what was coming, but the subtle application of music in the background paired with KyoAni's trademark visuals made the adaptation feel like a different thing altogether.

From here on, I believe this show's quality will continue to be dependent on the quality of its mysteries, so I'm not necessarily going to take this arc as representative of the coming arcs. I will just hope that the mysteries in the coming arcs can equal or surpass the one presented here.

[alarmadadna hadi]

Now I understand why I the show pulls me in every damn week. There's nothing gripping at first glance and first impressions because apparently that's exactly how the show wants itself to be. There is nothing to take you in and stick with you the first episode because it demands your time, your attention and most of all your patience. I suddenly realize that I was lacking in the latter two despite being myself proud of having an eye for detail and patience as part of my medical training.

Indeed, as often it is with mysteries, our eyes into Hyouka's world were through Houtarou, if the goal was to throw hooks in the series premiere, I wouldn't have been surprised if that rabbit-wolf chase was showcased at the very beginning or some similar eye catcher, instead, by preserving the integrity of the mystery, the settings own integrity was upheld. This makes it more interesting and curious to find out more information, as if we are part of the Hyouka club solving exercises.

It also appears that oreki is moving towards the colorful side of things, not by admiration of the "colorful" life of Jun, but its negation, the fact that he was robbed of important youthful experiences. It is so easy to relate to his talk with satoshi in the ep's beginning, indeed, back in high school, I too would feel stressed and uneasy when I sometimes heared about people achieving and living fullfilling lives because it makes you feel you're wasting your own life in comparison.

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by novalysis

The setting was not part of my argument.

I was referring to the general cliches of Light Novels that Hyouka seems to be under attack for showing a variant off. Nevermind that this volume of Hyouka pre-dates most of the conceptions and popularization of those cliches from other LNs written years after Hyouka itself.

For the writers to take that into account, they'd need to veer some of the plot and character interactions into clever anime-original territory. And that's a very, very risky move.

I actually was referring to the cliches, hence my references to Disney and Seuss. The Internet thing was a throwaway statement to further show how it could be considered dated. For further reference, I don't care if Haruhi started all this club stuff or if John Carter created sci-fi. I don't consider them good by today's standards (Disappearance of Haruhi is pretty good though) because so many products have evolved their formula since they were released. I consider this anime fine by today's standards.

[Hiroi Sekai]

Originally Posted by Hyper

I see. I don't think a clever MC is that rare (this is not really a harem though. Not so far, at least), but I do think that a clever and not arrogant/having superiority complex is hard to come by. I like Houtarou because of this so far.

Well yes, I'm not saying it's rare, but it still feels fresh to me. I actually don't watch much harem, but even normally it's not pure thought and intelligence I see nowadays, it's more "competence in society" characters. That's very good and DOES require smarts yes, but I do like Houtarou stacking information to reach conclusions.

I just like mysteries, I'll just say that.

[blakstealth]

So, Hyouka is ice cream in English? lawl

I had to pause the episode and walk out of the room for a moment when that part came.

Pretty awesome ep.