(L) Girls und Panzer

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Chiaki_chan

ha? what he wrote in his website was wrong? it was a joke?

I think you're having trouble with the language. With a sentence phrased that way he is NOT saying "there will be no more anime about Girls und Panzer." That sentence says "Girls und Panzer is the ultimate anime, and nothing anyone tries to make after it will ever measure up to what it accomplished, so no one should ever make any anime again." So to answer your question, yes, that is a joke.

[Chiaki_chan]

Originally Posted by garbage

^ with all the Sales and Bruhaha GuP has been generating in Japan and overseas, I think it would be more surprising if they don't at least try to make a 2nd Season ^^

--- especially for a new(?) starting(?) studio(is it?)

ha then have a chance to have a season 2 but reading this sentence :

“But after the last episode of Girls und Panzer, we all know that there is nothing more to accomplish in anime.”

I thought not for a season 2

I think you're having trouble with the language. With a sentence phrased that way he is NOT saying "there will be no more anime about Girls und Panzer." That sentence says "Girls und Panzer is the ultimate anime, and nothing anyone tries to make after it will ever measure up to what it accomplished, so no one should ever make any anime again." So to answer your question, yes, that is a joke.

yes I have a problem to understand because being French

[Anh_Minh]

And you didn't get suspicious of people destroying their memorabilia and awards?

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Xacual

And they should have listened to her. There has been multiple instances in the previous matches showing that her plan of action is usually the best thing to do. That all of sudden they weren't willing to listen to her again is like I said stupid.

That's the effect of impetuousness taking over, and Miho never explained the potential danger to them. Tactically speaking, the Ooarai girls aren't the brightest bulbs.

Originally Posted by Xacual

Others have said Pravda is of course going to lose because the plot requires Ooarai to win but it also feels to me that plot required Ooarai play stupidly just to make this situation happen too.

Plotwise, the purpose of the action sequence was to get Ooarai backed into a corner and force the student council to spill the beans about the school being closed down. They also had to have enough resources to get a come-from-behind victory. There's nothing to preclude that from happening even if Ooarai fought according to Miho's plan, so there's another reason the show to play out in this manner. A lot of the effort in the previous episodes have been used to illustrate all sorts of limitations and mistakes related to tank combat, so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

I surmise that this case is meant to show the effect of being overly impetuous and to show us both Miho and Ooarai's limitations.

Originally Posted by Tak

Funny, they had a legion of those on Saunders' ship.

Did I miss them? I just recall Yukari talking about scads of M4s during her scouting mission.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Girls... you found a Tiger last time. It outguns and out-armors anything else on your team. WHY are you not deploying it?! It is literally the best tank you have, and it's probably in better condition than the B1, considering where each of them was found. You're up against last year's champions, they outnumber you by more than two-to-one, and you're NOT using the most powerful and durable tank you own?

The Porsche Tiger was horrifically unreliable, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's a lot harder than the Char B1 bis to put into action. Who knows if you can find parts for that thing? It's also one of the most difficult tanks to operate, so they don't have a crew for it either.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Whoever made this episode lacks an appreciation of just how cold cold really is. If that's supposed to be a Russian winter, than those girls out there in their seifuku have already frozen to death and the entire match is just their final hallucinations as they succumb to hypothermia.

It's not necessarily that cold. While the battlefield is north of the 50th parallel, it could be fall, and there are often periods above 0 degrees even in the heart of winter.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

So... the Lee has lost its main cannon, the StuG has lost a track which renders it incapable of aiming, and the Panzer IV's turret and/or gun is out. So... that leaves us with the 38(t) (useless, because Momo can't aim), the B1 (run by rookies. They're doomed), and the Type 89 (...yeah). Should we discuss how screwed the girls are now?

Given this setup, I can almost see just how they can get out of this mess.

Originally Posted by Tak

Yeah, and in 2nd season, they need to bring out them Leopard IIs!

- Tak

The show would lose a lot of its charm if it drops the vintage tanks though. In fact, it'd be even better if there were more older and weaker AFVs fielded.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Tak

Yeah, and in 2nd season, they need to bring out them Leopard IIs!

- Tak

...Tak, that's never going to happen, what with the rules. Besides, it'd be much easier to get Type-10s rather than Leopard 2s.

Also, once you get modern tanks into the picture, you're going to get endless misplaced nationalism. Don't you remember all the Abrams vs Leopard 2 faggotry that went on way back when Valkyria Chronicles was airing?

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Ye gods. I stop reading posts for a day to allow the episode translations time to come out, and you lunatics post ten pages?

Girls... you found a Tiger last time. It outguns and out-armors anything else on your team. WHY are you not deploying it?! It is literally the best tank you have, and it's probably in better condition than the B1, considering where each of them was found. You're up against last year's champions, they outnumber you by more than two-to-one, and you're NOT using the most powerful and durable tank you own?

Did they seriously make the Type 89 their flag tank this time around?

Whoever made this episode lacks an appreciation of just how cold cold really is. If that's supposed to be a Russian winter, than those girls out there in their seifuku have already frozen to death and the entire match is just their final hallucinations as they succumb to hypothermia.

Bloody... it shoots at you and runs away and you immediately chase it? Really? Even after warning yourself ahead of time that they like to lure people in with feigned retreats? Not wise at all.

So... the Lee has lost its main cannon, the StuG has lost a track which renders it incapable of aiming, and the Panzer IV's turret and/or gun is out. So... that leaves us with the 38(t) (useless, because Momo can't aim), the B1 (run by rookies. They're doomed), and the Type 89 (...yeah). Should we discuss how screwed the girls are now?

Maybe this series needs dedicated sub-forum as well. On second thought, such a dedicated sub-forum will be flooded with tank talks and World War 2 discussions.........

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

YGirls... you found a Tiger last time. It outguns and out-armors anything else on your team. WHY are you not deploying it?! It is literally the best tank you have, and it's probably in better condition than the B1, considering where each of them was found. You're up against last year's champions, they outnumber you by more than two-to-one, and you're NOT using the most powerful and durable tank you own?

Because they might not have been able to ready it in time, plus there is the issue of having to retrain either initial members or bring fresh blood up to the high standards required of running a Tiger? You make it seem as if the Tiger is as easy as running some other tank.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Did they seriously make the Type 89 their flag tank this time around?

I don't see a problem with this. They need all the firepower they can get, and using other tanks as the flag would hinder such capacity.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Whoever made this episode lacks an appreciation of just how cold cold really is. If that's supposed to be a Russian winter, than those girls out there in their seifuku have already frozen to death and the entire match is just their final hallucinations as they succumb to hypothermia.

What Russian "winter"? This is sometime in spring~summer (august at the latest), somewhere on the coast of the Sea of Okhotsk (most likely the northern part of Sakhalin, given that we're talking about a JAPANESE school). It isn't THAT cold, unless you think all of Russia have the same climate.

[florallia]

Originally Posted by Xacual

And they should have listened to her. There has been multiple instances in the previous matches showing that her plan of action is usually the best thing to do. That all of sudden they weren't willing to listen to her again is like I said stupid.

Others have said Pravda is of course going to lose because the plot requires Ooarai to win but it also feels to me that plot required Ooarai play stupidly just to make this situation happen too.

Wow, please cool down ! You're, or some military enthu's forget something important every time ! This not war, Sensha-Do ! And people who join this tournament IS only just teenager girl, playing sports with school friends for joy ! Not military operations, no intention of kill or harm somebody, and again, this not a war or online tank-game, just a school sports activity.......think tenderly, they're only just school girls, not a soldier of war.

Of course, main cause of entrapment is Miho's directorship, but she was new-comer for Ooarai city, so much afraid of loose relationship and community. Most of Ooarai team's mate still is amatuare, in the hay of Winning and over-confidence, they eager to go- forward, I think that's proper how she can't resist that passion-crazed teammates. Simply, he scared for broke community just like ordinary teenage girl.

At first of the game, They had, neither Miho had no information about closing down of their school except Seito-Kai. they still thinking they're just join school sports activity, enjoying Sensha-Do, and had a priority in Joy of sports instead of win in tournament final. I can imagine most of Ooarai teammates' thought easely. "We're beginners, but we can get through so high, what a lack ! well, we're encounter last year's finalist, win or loose, we do our best and enjoy !" It's no harm to feel Miho same thing at this point. according to the Lack of vital information, goal of mission was on different point. Yes, She can accept loose this game. But what Seito-Kai confess in shelter is.......make whole mission shifts different stage. That's cruel for Miho. That's why I think many G&P watchers accuse Miho is unfair. Please, do more tenderly when touching Girl. She's just fragile.

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by florallia

Wow, please cool down ! You're, or some military enthu's forget something important every time ! This not war, Sensha-Do ! And people who join this tournament IS only just teenager girl, playing sports with school friends for joy ! Not military operations, no intention of kill or harm somebody, and again, this not a war or online tank-game, just a school sports activity.......think tenderly, they're only just school girls, not a soldier of war.

What? I'm pretty sure I'm perfectly calm, I think you're reading my posts a little too seriously. I'm just disappointed and I don't think it can all be explained away with impetuousness like 4Tran said.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

It's not necessarily that cold. While the battlefield is north of the 50th parallel, it could be fall, and there are often periods above 0 degrees even in the heart of winter.

Is that 0 degrees Celsius or Farenheit? Because the difference is significant. Heh. Anyway, I realize it's not that cold, but given the snow and the general conditions, it's below freezing, and it's never wise to be out in that with so much exposed skin like the girls are. The reason I specified "if it's supposed to be a Russian winter" is because there have been recorded temperatures in some parts of Russia where having exposed skin at all for more than a second or two results in frostbite, and lying in the snow like the Pravda scouts were really would be suicide.

What Russian "winter"? This is sometime in spring~summer (august at the latest), somewhere on the coast of the Sea of Okhotsk (most likely the northern part of Sakhalin, given that we're talking about a JAPANESE school). It isn't THAT cold, unless you think all of Russia have the same climate.

Not what I meant. I think they were trying to represent a Russian winter and failing, not that it actually is what would be considered one.

Given this setup, I can almost see just how they can get out of this mess.

Indeed? It's obvious they're going to need a lucky strike somehow on the flag tank, but I don't see how they have much chance of getting it, beyond pure blind luck.

Oh, 4Tran, you made comments a few pages back how Katyusha's tactics are superior and don't rely on her qualitative and quantitative superiority. I kind of disagree completely. Her strategy relied on sacrificing tanks to lure the enemy in with a false sense of victory. I counted at least three Pravda tanks disabled completely before they even sprung their trap, and had they been competing with equal numbers a "trap" with only three tanks remaining would not have been very intimidating. And that intimidation was just as much a factor as the actual trap itself: shaking the victims morale when they see themselves surrounded accomplished half their work for them. This was a tactic that could only have been accomplished by a team with Pravda's crushingly overwhelming advantage in numbers.

I see this as a very different tactic than what Miho did vs Glorianna. That was an attempt to draw the enemy into a location where lighter forces could wear down heavier ones through hit-and-run tactics that favored maneuverability and knowledge of terrain. Pravda, on the other hand, simply lured Oarai into a shooting-gallery and then sat still pounding on them. Those are very different philosophies. Pravda's whole approach to fighting seems to be the "we have reserves" approach where they don't care about losses because they've got plenty more tanks to replace them with. Yes, it should win them this match, but that doesn't make it an inherently superior tactical approach.

[florallia]

Originally Posted by Xacual

What? I'm pretty sure I'm perfectly calm, I think you're reading my posts a little too seriously. I'm just disappointed and I don't think it can all be explained away with impetuousness like 4Tran said.

　Aye, sorry for overreacts, mate.

[panzerfan]

Actually, now that you mention of 4Tran, I have to add that IS-2 would actually fare poorer in close-quarter combat against a Tiger's KwK 36, since the IS-2 uses two-piece munition, having very limited ammo, and that loading the gun meant to level the gun each time to load. This was demonstrated when Abteilung.502 engaged a bunch of IS-2 parked in a town as the German tried to break out of Latvia.

I think that I've mentioned before that the matter of Senshado not being war does not apply to Oarai, since a matter of life and death is that of war. Operational objective for the Oarai student council cannot afford any defeat, with failure marking the end of Oarai; this is do-or-die for Anzu. Miho had a totally different ballgame in her mind about what she's tasked to do for Oarai, and having this gap in operational objective led to this uncomfortable ending in this episode.

To Random Wanderer... Pravda's hands are tied by their equipments in some sense. Radio would not be available on all the T-34s, and that the visibility inside a T-34 makes situational awareness poor. T-34s were clumped together in a group and hurled in a sledgehammer fashion against the opposition, as they would be easy picking if isolated. What Miho was able to accomplish in that match against St.Gloriana would require a degree of coordination that cannot be provided by the technical limitations of the workhorses of Pravda. (Pravda girls should text or use their phone maybe...)


Winter condition wise, Russian interior is deadly and brutal, with the Tundra reaching -30C in winter... but that's not where this tank battle is happening.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Is that 0 degrees Celsius or Farenheit? Because the difference is significant. Heh. Anyway, I realize it's not that cold, but given the snow and the general conditions, it's below freezing

Actually, snow tends to fall when it's just above freezing.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

The reason I specified "if it's supposed to be a Russian winter" is because there have been recorded temperatures in some parts of Russia where having exposed skin at all for more than a second or two results in frostbite, and lying in the snow like the Pravda scouts were really would be suicide.

Don't mix up inland continental climate with coastal ocean climate. Nowhere along the Russian coastline short of the parts along the Arctic Ocean is that cold.

[SatelliteCannon]

Now I'm curious to see what the regulations are for the Sailor-suit and Heavy Tank manga. Here's the "high tier" stuff I've seen up to volume 8:

T-55
Merkava (!)
B1 Centauro (Italian wheeled TD)
IS-3
Super Pershing

I'm wondering if stating the competition regulations, especially a no-later-than date, will turn out to be a mistake by the writers of GuP. Its an interesting situation, really. If this were a mecha anime, the writers could just make up mecha development paths on the spot - here, they are restricted by history.

As for me, I'm just hoping that in the next season and the international battles, the GuP writers pull in more proxies of the Sailor-suit and Heavy Tank characters, namely Montgomery-chan, Soviet Saber and Momo-chan's older sister.

[The Based]

Did they seriously make the Type 89 their flag tank this time around?

The upside is that Katyusha has decided to take out their flag tank last, to further the humiliation.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Don't mix up inland continental climate with coastal ocean climate. Nowhere along the Russian coastline short of the parts along the Arctic Ocean is that cold.

I know I know. It's... arg, I'm not explaining this properly. This show likes to portray the "foreign" schools using popular stereotypes of the countries they're pretending to be. Russia is, stereotypically, a cold, dark, snowy place. Thus, I think they were trying to prtray the battlefield as part of that Russia stereotype. But if it were really as cold as the stereotypical Russia that I think they're trying to portray, the girls wouldn't be able to survive behaving the way they're behaving. Thus, I said that the people who made this episode liked the idea of having the battle in that sterotypical "really cold place," but lacked practical knowledge of just how cold that kind of cold would really be.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Did I miss them? I just recall Yukari talking about scads of M4s during her scouting mission.

The M4s were parked alongside the Shermans, side by side!!

Besides, personal safety & Kei do not belong in the same sentence!!

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

...Tak, that's never going to happen, what with the rules. Besides, it'd be much easier to get Type-10s rather than Leopard 2s.

Its easier to get Leopard 2s than Char B1, Tiger tanks, let alone a Tiger P!!!

But if season II does air, I was thinking tankery could finally go international

Then again, it could be a brand new story with a brand new setting. Who knows...

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Also, once you get modern tanks into the picture, you're going to get endless misplaced nationalism.

Well, we aren't having a problem here, and I thought WW2 tanks have a higher possibility of spawning endless misplaced nationalism than modern AFVs.

Besides, modern AFVs have a lot more in common than most people would believe.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Don't you remember all the Abrams vs Leopard 2 faggotry that went on way back when Valkyria Chronicles was airing?

Uhh...

- Tak

[Marina2]

The date that ep.8 aired: 3 December
December 1941 (Battle of Moscow) : Soviet troops supported by tanks, counter-attack German forces.

The date that next ep. will air: 10 December
10 December 1941 : German counter attack at Dillingen-bridgehead at Saar

LOL

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Marina2

The date that ep.8 aired: 3 December
December 1941 (Battle of Moscow) : Soviet troops supported by tanks, counter-attack German forces.

The date that next ep. will air: 10 December
10 December 1941 : German counter attack at Dillingen-bridgehead at Saar

LOL

Even though 5.5 is not supposed to air...

- Tak

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Is that 0 degrees Celsius or Farenheit? Because the difference is significant. Heh. Anyway, I realize it's not that cold, but given the snow and the general conditions, it's below freezing, and it's never wise to be out in that with so much exposed skin like the girls are.

Celsius. Even during the famous Winter of 1941, there were periods during the day when the temperature in the Soviet Union was above freezing. In cold Winters, it doesn't happen very often, and only for short periods of time, but in warm Winters, it can get warm enough for all the snow to melt.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Not what I meant. I think they were trying to represent a Russian winter and failing, not that it actually is what would be considered one.

If it were a stereotypical Russian Winter, the first years certainly wouldn't be having a snowball fight. It's supposed to be cold for Ooarai girls used to warmer climes, not -40 degree weather where people can't function properly.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Indeed? It's obvious they're going to need a lucky strike somehow on the flag tank, but I don't see how they have much chance of getting it, beyond pure blind luck.

They'll have to use improvisation and steal a Soviet trick: maskirovka. What I imagine is that they're going to go and try to cause some damage with their mobile tanks and cause Pravda to commit their forces and maybe bring the flag tank into the danger zone. The surprise would be for some unit to push the immobilized StuG III into firing position and have it knock out the flag tank. The beauty of this is that Pravda knows that the StuG III is already immobilized, and discounts it because immobilized assault guns are combat ineffective. I figure the there's about a 40% chance that Girls und Panzer will pull something like that off, and that most of the Ooarai tanks will probably be knocked out.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Oh, 4Tran, you made comments a few pages back how Katyusha's tactics are superior and don't rely on her qualitative and quantitative superiority. I kind of disagree completely. Her strategy relied on sacrificing tanks to lure the enemy in with a false sense of victory. I counted at least three Pravda tanks disabled completely before they even sprung their trap, and had they been competing with equal numbers a "trap" with only three tanks remaining would not have been very intimidating. And that intimidation was just as much a factor as the actual trap itself: shaking the victims morale when they see themselves surrounded accomplished half their work for them. This was a tactic that could only have been accomplished by a team with Pravda's crushingly overwhelming advantage in numbers.

The difference is between using superior numbers and relying on them. Katyusha could have just sacrificed a single tank, used the flag tank as bait, and sprung the trap with the rest of her forces. It wouldn't have been as effective, mostly by being less convincing, but the end result would have been all the Ooarai tanks oriented towards the Pravda flag, while they're surrounded by Pravda's main force.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

I see this as a very different tactic than what Miho did vs Glorianna. That was an attempt to draw the enemy into a location where lighter forces could wear down heavier ones through hit-and-run tactics that favored maneuverability and knowledge of terrain. Pravda, on the other hand, simply lured Oarai into a shooting-gallery and then sat still pounding on them. Those are very different philosophies.

Anh_Minh and I were comparing Pravda's tactics and the first trap that Miho tried to pull off with the Ooarai tanks on the cliff. There are differences in execution, but they're effectively variants on the same idea.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Pravda's whole approach to fighting seems to be the "we have reserves" approach where they don't care about losses because they've got plenty more tanks to replace them with. Yes, it should win them this match, but that doesn't make it an inherently superior tactical approach.

Pravda's approach is that if they can gain an advantage by sacrificing a tank, they'll do so. Achieving the objective is the main goal, and necessary losses are acceptable as long as they can succeed. It's sound military philosophy and it's the kind of thinking that wins hard-fought wars.

Originally Posted by panzerfan

Actually, now that you mention of 4Tran, I have to add that IS-2 would actually fare poorer in close-quarter combat against a Tiger's KwK 36, since the IS-2 uses two-piece munition, having very limited ammo, and that loading the gun meant to level the gun each time to load. This was demonstrated when Abteilung.502 engaged a bunch of IS-2 parked in a town as the German tried to break out of Latvia.

I agree. The IS-2 has its greatest advantage from 1000+m where the Tiger I can't really hurt it. But usually it boils down to whomever gets the drop on the other, just like most tank combat ever. That's why I've always felt that tanks that are technically weaker on paper can still contribute.

Originally Posted by Tak

The M4s were parked alongside the Shermans, side by side!!

But M4s are Shermans - there aren't any tank destroyers shown.