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[DonQuigleone]

Is their a mature opposition party in Singapore? Someone who could feasibly take power and not mess up?

Seems to me that Singapore is very sound economically, it's the political side that needs reformed.

Is there a good party that campaigns on liberalising the state, but preserving the economic status quo? How are civil liberties in Singapore? It's always seemed a bit constrictive from the outside looking in.

[Sumeragi]

Personally, I believe that Singapore needs more immigration than political reform.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Personally, I believe that Singapore needs more immigration than political reform.

Erm. You do realise immigration is one of the reasons Singaporeans are unhappy with the Government in the first place, right?

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Erm. You do realise immigration is one of the reasons Singaporeans are unhappy with the Government in the first place, right?

Given that Singapore is facing an even more severe demographical crisis than Japan or Korea..... well, whatever. Singapore is just a tiny city state.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Is their a mature opposition party in Singapore? Someone who could feasibly take power and not mess up?

In a word, no, not since the rapid decline of the leftist (some say communist) Barisan Sosialis party back in the 1960s.

Politics back then were literally matters of life or death (I do not jest — given the passions of the time, politicians could have been lynched or assassinated had they played their cards wrong), so... some less than savoury tactics were used to "fix" the opposition. Some today would say that it takes a fiercer gangster to crush other gangsters.

That said, it is far more important to note that men of exceptional quality and character — Toh Chin Chye, Goh Keng Swee, S. Rajaratnam and, of course, Lee Kuan Yew — formed the kernel of Singapore's first generation of political leaders. They literally were giants upon whose shoulders we stand today. They, in turn, managed to groom a team of hand-picked successors, all of whom were top-flight government scholars scoring the highest distinctions at top universities around the world.

In short, the People's Action Party (PAP) managed, for some 40 to 50 years, to have almost complete monopoly of some of the country's top brains. In the early years, these men and women were driven by a deeply felt passion for nation building. Over time, that passion has evolved into a more subtle set of motivations, but still largely driven by the desire to preserve past success for future generations.

Given such an environment, opposition parties simply couldn't thrive. It was only in the past 20 years or so that we began to see stirrings of discontent with the status quo. But, so long as the ruling PAP continued to deliver economic growth while remaining largely incorruptible, very few Singaporeans saw credible reasons to oppose the Government.

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Is there a good party that campaigns on liberalising the state, but preserving the economic status quo? How are civil liberties in Singapore? It's always seemed a bit constrictive from the outside looking in.

Not just "a bit". It is very constrictive but, contrary to outsider opinions, not necessarily oppressive. That seems to be a contradiction, I know, but I like to think of it this way: By raising the bar for political discourse so high, it forces citizens not to take it lightly. And you'd be surprised, most Singaporeans actually do appreciate this, in spite of their frequent grumbling. None of us wants to see our Parliament descending into the farce that is Taiwan's government, for example.

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Given that Singapore is facing an even more severe demographical crisis than Japan or Korea..... well, whatever. Singapore is just a tiny city state.

Singapore isn't anti-immigration. We are, however, concerned about the pace at which immigrant workers are coming in. The PAP has admitted as much, that it has miscalculated the rate at which foreign labour was allowed in, especially in the last two to three years. Our public-transport and housing infrastructure could not absorb the huge influx, leading to sharp spikes in transport and housing costs. All these served to sharpen what used to be only background resentment, hence making it an election issue this year.

[DonQuigleone]

Regarding the PAP, it's my experience from my own country (Ireland) or other countries (Japan...) that parties that hold power for a long time descend into corruption and cronyism. The main party here (Fianna Fail) has had power on and off for the vast majority of the last 60 years, and were well in with Banks and Property developers, putting their interests before that of the state (cause they were "buddies"). Same goes for LDP in Japan. We were somewhat lucky in that we have an opposition which has occasionally been in power, though I don't love them much either.

Either way, a healthy opposition is vital for a functioning democracy, if the politicians don't think they can lose an election it's too easy for them to start taking their position for granted.

Anyway, it seems to me that the obvious way to form a solid opposition in Singapore is to campaign solely on Civil Liberties, while trying to recruit people from the business community and whatnot to make the party more economically sound. Obviously, though, there's difficulties I'm not aware of in doing so.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

other countries (Japan...) that parties that hold power for a long time descend into corruption and cronyism.

Japanese politics have always featured corruption and factionalism.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Regarding the PAP, it's my experience from my own country (Ireland) or other countries (Japan...) that parties that hold power for a long time descend into corruption and cronyism. The main party here (Fianna Fail) has had power on and off for the vast majority of the last 60 years, and were well in with Banks and Property developers, putting their interests before that of the state (cause they were "buddies"). Same goes for LDP in Japan. We were somewhat lucky in that we have an opposition which has occasionally been in power, though I don't love them much either.

The PAP has been in power for almost 50 years now. No visible signs of major corruption yet. That's not a platitude. It's the truth. The record speaks for itself, unless you're talking about political thuggery, which is another matter altogether...

How was this clean record achieved? That's something for historians to ponder. I think it's a combination of leadership by example, astute judgment of character and the simple fact that we're just a city-state — the potential politicians we have to work with simply do not vary very much in terms of character and capabilities.

Can the PAP decline? It's possible, especially if the politics of the future descends into short-term populism. No one denies the possibility, and it's something we do worry about.

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Either way, a healthy opposition is vital for a functioning democracy, if the politicians don't think they can lose an election it's too easy for them to start taking their position for granted.

You see, this is something foreigners will never fully understand, being outsiders looking in through their own experience of politics in their home countries.

Watch Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's post-Election press conference. Listen to what he says and, more importantly, read his body language. Then, tell me if you honestly believe that this is a man who takes his position of political supremacy for granted. That is before you even take into consideration that it was Mr Lee himself who pushed for more-relaxed electoral laws to allow for greater opposition representation, when he was under no obligation to do so.

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Anyway, it seems to me that the obvious way to form a solid opposition in Singapore is to campaign solely on Civil Liberties, while trying to recruit people from the business community and whatnot to make the party more economically sound. Obviously, though, there's difficulties I'm not aware of in doing so.

It won't work, at least not now, because bread-and-butter issues comes first at the moment ("It's the economy, stupid," as Bill Clinton would say). It would take egregious wrong-doing on the Government's part before civil liberties truly become a matter of utmost concern — and, so far, that hasn't happened.

Moreover, it's actually very hard to persuade people to join politics here, because they would have to sacrifice so much, in terms of pay and privacy. Grassroots politics is extremely time-consuming, and most career-minded people would rather not go through it, because it's mostly a thankless task.

Anyways, I wouldn't want to derail the news thread further. Feel free to PM or VM if you have further questions about Singapore politics.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Personally, I believe that Singapore needs more immigration than political reform.

Well the people staying in the West side are grumbling about immigrants taking up their jobs and spoiling the market by accepting lower wages. And West side is where all the factories are.

Then there are property speculators driving up the price of housing, Singaporeans refusing to have children because they couldn't buy a house due to high housing prices and instead working and spending for themselves, driving up the cost of living, then using their spare cash to speculate in property.......bloody vicious cycle. Everybody wants a car and house but there isn't enough space in the whole of Singapore for everyone to do so (houses maybe if they build upwards and slow down in granting foreigner PR/citizenship).

[Vexx]

Despite the mythology many Americans seem to be believe... it really *is* the economy in front of "civil liberty" in most of the human race. If everyone is doing well (or "well enough"), the majority of people tend to be content with whatever governmental system is in place. As long as it isn't stiff-arming the business (again, the "economy").

[DonQuigleone]

Well, they do have 60% or so of the vote, surely the system would work well if they used Proportional representation or party list rather then FPP. And it wouldn't be that difficult considering they already have multi-seat consituencies. That would make elections more competitive.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Well the people staying in the West side are grumbling about immigrants taking up their jobs and spoiling the market by accepting lower wages. And West side is where all the factories are.

Then there are property speculators driving up the price of housing, Singaporeans refusing to have children because they couldn't buy a house due to high housing prices and instead working and spending for themselves, driving up the cost of living, then using their spare cash to speculate in property.......bloody vicious cycle. Everybody wants a car and house but there isn't enough space in the whole of Singapore for everyone to do so (houses maybe if they build upwards and slow down in granting foreigner PR/citizenship).

try one of these

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-09/t...rms?_s=PM:TECH

The Seasteading Institute already has drawn up plans for the construction of a homestead on the Pacific Ocean.
One project engineer described the prototype as similar to a cruise ship, but from a distance the cities might look like oil-drilling platforms.

[Ithekro]

Reminds me a little of SeaQuest DSV.

[AnimeFan188]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

try one of these

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-09/t...rms?_s=PM:TECH

Hope it doesn't turn into a land city when a tsunami hits it (it's bad enough when boats wash ashore).......

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

try one of these

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-09/t...rms?_s=PM:TECH

What about international waters issues?

[Ithekro]

Again, reminds me of SeaQuest DSV...and all the underwater nations that spread out from the island nations on the Pacific.

[Nerroth]

To go back to the UK for a bit, the Guardian have their own comment cartoon about the results of the various local and regional votes to have taken place last week.

No prizes for guessing which result stands as the most prominent!


Oh, and there will be a referendum on independence (which the UK government will not attempt to forestall or pre-empt); the BBC have a preliminary Q&A on the topic here, if you are interested.

[ganbaru]

Europe pressured to revise Irish and Greek bailouts
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7471WV20110509

[MrTerrorist]

Originally Posted by Nerroth

To go back to the UK for a bit, the Guardian have their own comment cartoon about the results of the various local and regional votes to have taken place last week.

No prizes for guessing which result stands as the most prominent!


Oh, and there will be a referendum on independence (which the UK government will not attempt to forestall or pre-empt); the BBC have a preliminary Q&A on the topic here, if you are interested.

Actually, i mention this earlier.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

Hope it doesn't turn into a land city when a tsunami hits it (it's bad enough when boats wash ashore).......

a tsunami is issue only in coastal waters. it is not a problem in deeper water.

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

What about international waters issues?

put a engine on it and say it is a boat.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Again, reminds me of SeaQuest DSV...and all the underwater nations that spread out from the island nations on the Pacific.

those are underwater cities, I don't think we can do those yet.