[Manga] Naruto Chapter 530 Discussion

[tkdtiger]

Well it is always hard to predict what anyone has planned. I personally think that Kishimoto has always believed that the younger generation will surpass their mentors therefore in my opinion the Konoha 11 are very much relevant in the story. This does not necessarily mean that all of them are created equal though. It seems Kishimoto wants to focus on specific groups of the Konoha 11. Currently it's Shikamaru's team, but there are other members of the Konoha 11 that you could make that argument.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

All right, here's where your argument falls apart Haak:

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE ANIME STAFF IS THINKING!!

You can't know what they're thinking! Fine, maybe the anime staff doesn't care and they're just using the konoha nin to "pander" to the fanbase. Or maybe the anime staff thinks they are legitimately interesting characters, but can't write for shit. Your original statement was this:

YOU CANNOT PROVE THIS!!

You're right, i don't know what they're thinking and I can't prove that. I was simply going by your logic:

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

The only reason people "overrate" the Konoha 11 is because most of them are legitimately interesting characters who had a ton of setup for playing major roles in the story, and the anime makes a big deal about them because even they understand that much.

There's nothing really to suggest my way over yours but you have literally nothing to back yours up. Atleast I have the undeniable proof that the quality of filler is bad to back up my statement. Not much but it's more credible than yours.

You tell me Haak. I want to know what you think would indicate that the anime staff thinks the konoha nin have potential.

A good story that shows some genuine thought was put into it. When the first Fullmetal Alchemist season aired, when they had to diverge from the manga's storyline they could've simply not give a shit like any other Studio would've done. But instead they put effort into and produced something great. If I wasn't told that the manga storyline diverged halfway I never would've noticed. The quality maintained all throughout. There are plenty of other adaptations that show a respect for the source material enough for writers to be geuninely interested in producing decent filler. Naruto isn't one of them. Incidently I've also seen other examples of a studio producing really shite filler because they just can't be arsed (e.g the Caster arc in Fate Stay Night). I know what I'm talking about. I'm no expert but i think i've seen enough anime to have some idea.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Yeah, or, you know, Kishi could've done that kind of world and character-building in the manga proper, which is what he should have been doing.

yeah, he should have. but i think what slayerx means that to make good use of the anime fillers they should use material that comes from the manga-ka. wouldn't it be nice to watch something in the anime that you can't find in the manga but still considered canon since the manga-ka came up with it or at least worked with the anime staff? personally, i rarely watch anime anymore, i just read the manga. i only watch certain episodes that i enjoyed reading in the manga. but if the anime fillers in the series contain canon material that you can't read in the manga then maybe i (along with some others who have done the same) would start watching them again.

A good story that shows some genuine thought was put into it. When the first Fullmetal Alchemist season aired, when they had to diverge from the manga's storyline they could've simply not give a shit like any other Studio would've done. But instead they put effort into and produced something great. If I wasn't told that the manga storyline diverged halfway I never would've noticed. The quality maintained all throughout. There are plenty of other adaptations that show a respect for the source material enough for writers to be geuninely interested in producing decent filler. Naruto isn't one of them.

unfortunately, naruto has one of the worst fillers. i agree, the original fma series was partly filler but it was still solid. i don't know if this is true but i read somewhere that arakawa was consulted by the anime team about what the conclusion should be. one piece also seems to have better fillers than most. the filler episodes aren't as good (save for the one that shows zoro's pirate-hunting days) but the arcs are quite entertaining.

[DeDe]

It seems there are two conversations going on here. Some talking about the quality, or lack thereof, of Naruto every week. Now we are hearing about filler. And others who are discussing the actual chapter in a chapter thread. It can be a little confusing.

Perhaps a manga tagged thread about the overall direction and criticism of Naruto should be created?

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Since the 100,000 Zetsus are just fodder, i wonder if this was Madara's plan before Kabuto approached him or it will turn out that he changed his plans and is holding back is strongest weapons. I mean he might want to wait until Kabuto uses all his moves, because he is afraid that if he acts now Kabuto might turn against him.
Or maybe Madara's plan for the 100,000 Zetsus was simply to distract the alliance so that he can freely execute his real plans. But right now it seems that the Zetsu army is dying quite fast, so if Madara has a secret plan he has to do it now, before the alliance wins and army returns from the battlefield. I think this is the best time to attack the HQ. At the same time he can kill the 5 feudal lords and make exact copies of them and pretend to be them (we know that not even the raikage and his best men could discover that Kisame was actually a Zetsu-clone).
Maybe Kishimoto can't decide what would be the best so he is inserting some filler chapters to have time

Madara's original plan was likely to throw 100,000 underpowered Zetsu clones(imagine how weak they would be without Yamato) at the Alliance to distract them while he sent the real Zetsu after the Daimyo. It looks like the Daimyo are the key to Madara's plan. Kabuto's zombies from Itachi to Sai's brother are just window dressing.

Once Madara captures the Daimyo he can do two things. He can clone them like you said. Or he can hold them for ransom. The intention of holding them for ransom would be to drive a wedge between the villages. Some Kage might be obligated to do anything to protect their country's Daimyo. The point of cloning them would also be to turn the Alliance against each other through the lies of Madara's Daimyo clones. Right now the Kages are way too friendly with other.

Kishi loves shogi(chess) metaphors so Madara is looking to use the Alliance army "pieces" against themselves. Now that would be the great twist in this war.

But Shikaku(who is a lot better at chess than Madara or Kabuto) has foreseen this and the Daimyo are well guarded with a Kage and constantly on the move. Everything Madara and Kabuto have done, Shikaku has countered. Madara has to catch a break soon. We know the Alliance has to lose at some point or Naruto won't be needed.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Haak

You're right, i don't know what they're thinking and I can't prove that. I was simply going by your logic:

There's nothing really to suggest my way over yours but you have literally nothing to back yours up. Atleast I have the undeniable proof that the quality of filler is bad to back up my statement. Not much but it's more credible than yours.

You're right, I did say that. And you're right, I don't have any concrete proof to back it up. But you don't have anything to back up your claims either.

Yes, the filler sucks. But you know what else? Most filler from all animes suck. And you have no idea why it sucks in this particular case (I'd say most likely due to lack of talent since anime writers have an incentive to make their material interesting). And you know what else? I'm sure it would suck whether the konoha nins were in the filler or not.

And to be honest, I think my stance does hold a bit more weight than yours, strictly from a logical sense. It makes sense that in order to make a story interesting you would use characters who you think are interesting. You're the one who's taking the cynical approach to this. I'll admit the entertainment industry can be a pretty shallow business at times, but I don't think they make the conscious decision of, "Well, time for more filler so let's pull out those dumb characters that the fans seem to love and half-ass out a story," especially when they're actually paying these writers.

A good story that shows some genuine thought was put into it. When the first Fullmetal Alchemist season aired, when they had to diverge from the manga's storyline they could've simply not give a shit like any other Studio would've done. But instead they put effort into and produced something great. If I wasn't told that the manga storyline diverged halfway I never would've noticed. The quality maintained all throughout. There are plenty of other adaptations that show a respect for the source material enough for writers to be geuninely interested in producing decent filler. Naruto isn't one of them. Incidently I've also seen other examples of a studio producing really shite filler because they just can't be arsed (e.g the Caster arc in Fate Stay Night). I know what I'm talking about. I'm no expert but i think i've seen enough anime to have some idea.

The first FMA anime and Naruto filler are two completely different monsters that were made for entirely different reasons. Naruto filler, as we've established, is just padding. It's just stalling for time until they have enough canon material to work with. The second half of the first FMA anime is exactly that; the second half of a whole show! That's not something you can half-ass even if you wanted to. The writers had to come up with a whole new ending and a whole new series of events leading up to it, all while being mostly consistent with the first quarter or so of the manga, and they really had to put on their writing hats to do that.

And even then, I personally don't think it was nearly as good as the original version.

What's more, I really don't understand why the konoha nins have to be in "good" filler to prove their worth. Why does it apply to only them and not Naruto, Sasuke or Sakura?

[iBeast]

This is a record. Sasuke has never been out of the Manga for this long. I wonder what the ratings of Naruto over there in Japan is right now? Is it slumping?

[Ulquiorra]

I find it odd we haven't seen a reaction from Kabuto about losing Kinkaku and Ginkaku. Those two were probably his two strongest zombies along with Nagato. Not even Hanzou was in their league. So far his only strategy is to just throw more zombies at any problem. For such an intelligent guy, he is not doing well commanding his forces.

Originally Posted by DeDe

It seems there are two conversations going on here. Some talking about the quality, or lack thereof, of Naruto every week. Now we are hearing about filler. And others who are discussing the actual chapter in a chapter thread. It can be a little confusing.

Perhaps a manga tagged thread about the overall direction and criticism of Naruto should be created?

That would help things.

Originally Posted by iBeast

This is a record. Sasuke has never been out of the Manga for this long. I wonder what the ratings of Naruto over there in Japan is right now? Is it slumping?

Sasuke who? Sasuke appeared in chapter 515. I believe he went longer than 15 chapters before. Remember, we didn't see Sasuke for a long time when Shippuden started. Kishi has his formula for Sasuke. He disappears for a long time, but then shows up and dominates every chapter for almost two years. Then he goes away again. I honestly rather he spread it out.

Sasuke can disappear as long as you have other popular characters to fill in. Naruto, Kakashi, Shikamaru, Gaara, the bishie members of Akatsuki. But when you start relying on guys like Darui, Kirabi(popular here, but not in Japan) Kisame, Gai, etc, then you'll probably see volumes sales go down.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by DeDe

Madara's original plan was likely to throw 100,000 underpowered Zetsu clones(imagine how weak they would be without Yamato) at the Alliance to distract them while he sent the real Zetsu after the Daimyo. It looks like the Daimyo are the key to Madara's plan. Kabuto's zombies from Itachi to Sai's brother are just window dressing.

Once Madara captures the Daimyo he can do two things. He can clone them like you said. Or he can hold them for ransom. The intention of holding them for ransom would be to drive a wedge between the villages. Some Kage might be obligated to do anything to protect their country's Daimyo. The point of cloning them would also be to turn the Alliance against each other through the lies of Madara's Daimyo clones. Right now the Kages are way too friendly with other.

Kishi loves shogi(chess) metaphors so Madara is looking to use the Alliance army "pieces" against themselves. Now that would be the great twist in this war.

But Shikaku(who is a lot better at chess than Madara or Kabuto) has foreseen this and the Daimyo are well guarded with a Kage and constantly on the move. Everything Madara and Kabuto have done, Shikaku has countered. Madara has to catch a break soon. We know the Alliance has to lose at some point or Naruto won't be needed.

Ofcourse, when it comes down to it, capturing the "king" doesn't lead to an automatic win. Honestly when Madara has already pointed out how he can literally take over the world with just two more pieces, what kage in their right mind would give in to his demands? He might as well say i'll trade you your lords for the entire freakin world. What good is getting the lord back if they loose their countries.

i'm not even sure what creating a copy of diaymos could really do as they have seen Akatsuki make clones before and the kage's know that they can't allow Madara to get his hands on Bee and Naruto. Hell the kage's didn't even seem to need the Daiymo's permission to have a summit and form a military alliance. Frankly he'd be better off going after the Kage's since they provide the military leadership

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

You're right, I did say that. And you're right, I don't have any concrete proof to back it up. But you don't have anything to back up your claims either.

Yes, the filler sucks. But you know what else? Most filler from all animes suck. And you have no idea why it sucks in this particular case (I'd say most likely due to lack of talent since anime writers have an incentive to make their material interesting). And you know what else? I'm sure it would suck whether the konoha nins were in the filler or not.

And to be honest, I think my stance does hold a bit more weight than yours, strictly from a logical sense. It makes sense that in order to make a story interesting you would use characters who you think are interesting. You're the one who's taking the cynical approach to this. I'll admit the entertainment industry can be a pretty shallow business at times, but I don't think they make the conscious decision of, "Well, time for more filler so let's pull out those dumb characters that the fans seem to love and half-ass out a story," especially when they're actually paying these writers.

How is more logical to assume the writers lack talent than just being logical and pandering to the base, something that's EXTREMELY common the anime industry? Why on earth would they decide to pull out the konoha nins on the basis that they find them interesting, rather than the fact that they have an incredibly huge fanbase? I can just imagine the conversation: "Oh hey it's time to make filler. Look I know the Konoha nin have a huge fanbase and using them will generate lots and lots of money, but let's not use them because they have no potential!".

I'm not being cynical here. You're just being naive.

The first FMA anime and Naruto filler are two completely different monsters that were made for entirely different reasons. Naruto filler, as we've established, is just padding. It's just stalling for time until they have enough canon material to work with. The second half of the first FMA anime is exactly that; the second half of a whole show! That's not something you can half-ass even if you wanted to. The writers had to come up with a whole new ending and a whole new series of events leading up to it, all while being mostly consistent with the first quarter or so of the manga, and they really had to put on their writing hats to do that.

And even then, I personally don't think it was nearly as good as the original version.

It is actually something you can half ass. It does require thought to make a decent plot but they didn't just create a decent plot. They made a very good plot and even went above and beyond to make a film that was also of exceptional quality. That shows the quality was more to do with their genuine interest and respect for the source material than just because they had to. And FMA is just one example. I can give plenty examples like I just did then but unfortunately I don't know what you've seen and what you haven't so it's pointless for me to elaborate.

What's more, I really don't understand why the konoha nins have to be in "good" filler to prove their worth. Why does it apply to only them and not Naruto, Sasuke or Sakura?

It does apply to the others aswell. The anime studio have given rubbish fillers with them aswell showing they don't care about them either. Like I said, they don't care anything in Naruto. But I don't see what that has to do with anything. I'm not saying the Konoha nin have to be in good stories to prove their potential. I'm saying the Konoha nin have to be in good stories to prove that the animators think they have potential.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by DeDe

Or he can hold them for ransom. The intention of holding them for ransom would be to drive a wedge between the villages. Some Kage might be obligated to do anything to protect their country's Daimyo. The point of cloning them would also be to turn the Alliance against each other through the lies of Madara's Daimyo clones. Right now the Kages are way too friendly with other.

I think trying to "drive a wedge" between the kages now would be quite stupid idea from Kishimoto. Just remember who caused the kages to form an alliance, it was Madara and his akatsuki. At the kage meeting we have seen the kages accusing each other of different things, they almost began a fight there, nobody trusted the other. On top of that hokage tried to trick the other on the spot and he was discovered, which means that if Madara didn't attack the summit then maybe even a war between countries could have started. A lot of villages were weakened because they admitted that they had to use akatsuki and also that akatsuki stole their demons. Which means it was a perfect time for a war to break. But Madara instead of plotting to cause even more trouble between the villages (for example Zetsu clones impersonating some konoha ninjas attack the raikage) has announced a war and made Sasuke attack the summit, and so he was the one who united the ninjas in an alliance. So why would he now do the opposite, is he and idiot?
I think that it will be revealed that Madara in the past has plotted on causing wars, and probably he caused at least one of the 3 great ninja wars. But since those wars didn't lead to the desired outcome he decided that now it does not matter any more and he will stop hiding in the shadows and using the rinnegan and 7 demons he will proudly step on the stage of history and make a war against all villages and beat them. And that means Madara changed his strategy radically, of course his situation has also changed thanks to akatsuki, so he actually has the tools now to change his strategy. Also Madara must have emotions too, he is not a robot, so i think he just couldn't take it any more that the formerly great and legendary Madara has to hide for eternity. He wants to kick asses again.

[octaviahawk]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

On top of that hokage tried to trick the other on the spot and he was discovered, which means that if Madara didn't attack the summit then maybe even a war between countries could have started....But Madara instead of plotting to cause even more trouble between the villages (for example Zetsu clones impersonating some konoha ninjas attack the raikage) has announced a war and made Sasuke attack the summit, and so he was the one who united the ninjas in an alliance. So why would he now do the opposite, is he and idiot?

That's a really good point I hadn't thought of before! Why force Sasuke attack the meeting in the first place? Could it be that playing people against each other is just damn enjoyable? Could it be that Madara thinks he'll just have more fun kicking everyone's arses at once in a full-out ninja world rumble?

Madara is definitely an inscrutable character. It made sense why he allowed Sasuke kill of Itatchi, since Itatchi 1. was pro-Kohona and 2. ganna die anyway, but it is really hard to explain the rest of it. What is he up to?

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I think trying to "drive a wedge" between the kages now would be quite stupid idea from Kishimoto. Just remember who caused the kages to form an alliance, it was Madara and his akatsuki. At the kage meeting we have seen the kages accusing each other of different things, they almost began a fight there, nobody trusted the other. On top of that hokage tried to trick the other on the spot and he was discovered, which means that if Madara didn't attack the summit then maybe even a war between countries could have started. A lot of villages were weakened because they admitted that they had to use akatsuki and also that akatsuki stole their demons. Which means it was a perfect time for a war to break. But Madara instead of plotting to cause even more trouble between the villages (for example Zetsu clones impersonating some konoha ninjas attack the raikage) has announced a war and made Sasuke attack the summit, and so he was the one who united the ninjas in an alliance. So why would he now do the opposite, is he and idiot?

Disagree. A war on Konoha isn't the same as a world war. Also, the Kages accusing each other of various things does not mean war will break out. It's certainly not the impression I had. Tsuchikage was the only one who was unrepentant about it, but even he had the argument that Raikage continued building his forces up.

Even the Alliance was already in the works before Zetsu showed up.

If Madara does anything, he'll probably manipulate the Daimio. Or perhaps he'll show knowledge of the 'King' and head to the villages and hold hostage the children.

Checkmate!

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Frenchie

Disagree. A war on Konoha isn't the same as a world war. Also, the Kages accusing each other of various things does not mean war will break out. It's certainly not the impression I had. Tsuchikage was the only one who was unrepentant about it, but even he had the argument that Raikage continued building his forces up.

Even the Alliance was already in the works before Zetsu showed up.

I didn't say that a war would break out at the meeting. My point was that the meeting was not going good, the kages didn't trust each other and the hokage even escaped from the meeting. The raikage was agressive with the others and also others didn't trust him because he kept building up his army which is a sign of war preparations. Nothing went good at the kage summit until Zetsu showed up and Madara began his plan. After Madara declared war the kages just forgot every issue they had and formed the alliance. And on top of that Madara used Sasuke to kill the warmongering Danzou, Danzou was the last one who could have prevented the alliance. We could say that until now Madara did only good with the world, like Ozymandias did with his plan to prevent a nuclear war

So if Madara didn't show up then the kage summit would have been a failure, and in this atmosphere of mistrust Madara could have caused a war between the villages. But he did the opposite, so i think it would be stupid to do that now.

[Slayerx]

One thing we must keep in mind that there are many things madara could not have predicted would happen. Like that danzou would attempt a power play and screw it up, or some more personal tidbits like the Raikage's lack of control over the loss of Bee.

However, one thing we can ask is what did madara stand to gain from starting this war, as opposed to sitting back... As far as i can see, announcing his plans declaring war only served to HELP unite the countries against him. Without his intervention the countries might have had trouble finding agreeable terms; as a result no alliance might have formed or the alliance that did form might have been weakened by mistrust. Madara pointing out that he only needed two more pieces to take over the world only helped the countries forget their differences and see him as THE greatest threat.

If anything madara should have played it by ear and only moved if it seemed liek it would help him... for instance he should have only made an attempt at giving them an ultimatum if he found that they managed to form a strong alliance. However if no alliance was formed or it seemed like the alliance was weak, he should have stayed in the shadows and found ways to break up the alliance. Do things that would make the villages suspicious of one an other, and attempt to manipulate them against each other.

If he did play it by ear, he could have seen Danzou's gamble and used that to try and push the other nations against konoha, or even attempt to manipulate danzou into starting a civil war within konoha which is one of his prime targets. he could have also realized that Bee never returned to cloud and thus kept it his own little secret so that kisame could hunt down Bee alone... additionally he would see that it was causing the raikage violent emotional stress that would make the other villages nervous to work with him; he could have used all the weakness of the villages to tear down their alliance.

Originally Posted by Frenchie

Disagree. A war on Konoha isn't the same as a world war. Also, the Kages accusing each other of various things does not mean war will break out. It's certainly not the impression I had. Tsuchikage was the only one who was unrepentant about it, but even he had the argument that Raikage continued building his forces up.

no its not, but it would serve madara's purposes better. A war on konoha would have kept konoha out of the alliance and made the nine-tails all that much more easier to the capture.

[Nobodyman9]

@Haak: All right, I'm growing a bit weary of this debate, so I'll just address this, which I think is the root of the matter.

Originally Posted by Haak

It does apply to the others aswell. The anime studio have given rubbish fillers with them aswell showing they don't care about them either. Like I said, they don't care anything in Naruto. But I don't see what that has to do with anything. I'm not saying the Konoha nin have to be in good stories to prove their potential. I'm saying the Konoha nin have to be in good stories to prove that the animators think they have potential.

The anime staff can think the konoha nins have potential and still write a shitty story about them.

And going back to what you initially said, the poor quality of filler is not proof that the anime staff is just pandering to the fanbase.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

used all the weakness of the villages to tear down their alliance.

Or, more simply, maybe Madara wanted the alliance. Maybe he wanted all the shinobi to band together in one place. Specifically, we know Madara wants to use the moon to cast a genjutsu on the world. But, because the moon revolves around the planet, it cannot hit everyplace equally or at the same time. Consequently, it could be that Madara set-up the entire battlefield specifically to cast said genjutsu, effectively bewitching an entire army (and the majority of the known shinobi) in one instance (consequently ending the war effort, leaving a paltry resistance at best). The clum babies, Kabuto's efforts, Zetsu's attack on the daimyo, even Sasuke's revenge will all just be diversions in preparation for the grand event.

At least this would be a good explanation if Kishimoto's even decides to make the effort. Whatever the case, I do hope Kishimoto has some sort of answer for how one-sided the war seems to be.

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by james0246

Or, more simply, maybe Madara wanted the alliance. Maybe he wanted all the shinobi to band together in one place. Specifically, we know Madara wants to use the moon to cast a genjutsu on the world. But, because the moon revolves around the planet, it cannot hit everyplace equally or at the same time. Consequently, it could be that Madara set-up the entire battlefield specifically to cast said genjutsu, effectively bewitching an entire army (and the majority of the known shinobi) in one instance (consequently ending the war effort, leaving a paltry resistance at best). The clum babies, Kabuto's efforts, Zetsu's attack on the daimyo, even Sasuke's revenge will all just be diversions in preparation for the grand event.

At least this would be a good explanation if Kishimoto's even decides to make the effort. Whatever the case, I do hope Kishimoto has some sort of answer for how one-sided the war seems to be.

Either that or he wanted to make himself the enemy while the ninja world gets united. He brought peace to the ninja world by making himself the enemy. Isn't he kind of a nice person? Don't you like him? He's darkness and light at the same time. I don't know his ideals but I kind of want to believe that he is a nice person while on the other hand I know that he sacrifices people on his way to an ideal world.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by james0246

Or, more simply, maybe Madara wanted the alliance. Maybe he wanted all the shinobi to band together in one place. Specifically, we know Madara wants to use the moon to cast a genjutsu on the world. But, because the moon revolves around the planet, it cannot hit everyplace equally or at the same time. Consequently, it could be that Madara set-up the entire battlefield specifically to cast said genjutsu, effectively bewitching an entire army (and the majority of the known shinobi) in one instance (consequently ending the war effort, leaving a paltry resistance at best). The clum babies, Kabuto's efforts, Zetsu's attack on the daimyo, even Sasuke's revenge will all just be diversions in preparation for the grand event.

It sure would be fun if this is true, but then Madara has to act quickly now, so in the next chapter he should already begin his attack against the remaining 2 demon hosts.

Or maybe his super genjutsu can be used with only 7 demons, but in that case it must be very concentrated on one area of the earth to have effect. In that case he can do it without collecting the remaining 2 demons, but he needs to concentrate the allied army into a relatively small area. If this is the plan then it's going good for Madara because the 5 different armies are now all being concentrated, and the allience think how smart they are while in reality they are running into a big failure
( Shikamaru's dad being outsmarted by Madara )

I really hope James is right and also that Madara is doing this with 7 demons. All this would mean that eventually Naruto (and KillerBee and some others) would have to face the whole allience army which is under Madara's mind control and also Kabuto's whole zombie army. That would be epic

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It sure would be fun if this is true, but then Madara has to act quickly now, so in the next chapter he should already begin his attack against the remaining 2 demon hosts.

Or maybe his super genjutsu can be used with only 7 demons, but in that case it must be very concentrated on one area of the earth to have effect. In that case he can do it without collecting the remaining 2 demons, but he needs to concentrate the allied army into a relatively small area. If this is the plan then it's going good for Madara because the 5 different armies are now all being concentrated, and the allience think how smart they are while in reality they are running into a big failure
( Shikamaru's dad being outsmarted by Madara )

I really hope James is right and also that Madara is doing this with 7 demons. All this would mean that eventually Naruto (and KillerBee and some others) would have to face the whole allience army which is under Madara's mind control and also Kabuto's whole zombie army. That would be epic

I thought Tobi needed the revive the jyuubi in order to cast the mass genjutsu...though performing it with only 7 demons might be ok.
question: now that naruto has conquered the kyuubi chakra, can it even be extracted at this point?
as far as the onsidedness, the all the enemies have been killed before. the teamwork of the alliance should dominate them right? i anticipate the tide changing with tobi showing up with a fire jutsu and that fan of his and clearing out the whole battlefield

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by james0246

At least this would be a good explanation if Kishimoto's even decides to make the effort. Whatever the case, I do hope Kishimoto has some sort of answer for how one-sided the war seems to be.

I agree that probably would work itself out to a much better scenerio

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

Either that or he wanted to make himself the enemy while the ninja world gets united. He brought peace to the ninja world by making himself the enemy. Isn't he kind of a nice person? Don't you like him? He's darkness and light at the same time. I don't know his ideals but I kind of want to believe that he is a nice person while on the other hand I know that he sacrifices people on his way to an ideal world.

So Kishi has apparently been watching Code geass...
Ya kinda of hard to accept that idea when we have Madara preaching hatred and supporting sasuke's madness when he does not really need him