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aahhsin · 2004-11-17, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shouryuu

But the real question remains, does he give a damn about any of them? I doubt it. People in power tend to use everybody else for their own gain.

That may be true, but remember, if he nukes the USA, the US will come back for retaliation. I doubt any of the Islamic leaders or any leader in the world will be willing to hide Bin Laden after that. Nobody wants to get nuked.

Shouryuu · 2004-11-17, 20:01

That...I agree with...damn you. Of course...I'm sure the rest of the world would fall in love with us once again. Not that I care...but random nukings can't look too good. It's doubtful you'd be able to prove which country is harboring him either and, in some circumstances, if the gov't aided in concealing him.

~~user8047~~ · 2004-11-17, 20:10

had they nuked the states the retaliation would would far worse for them, and the would probably be worse than previous attacks with nukes. since iraq is alredy in pain, and many people are dead, if they were nuked who knows how large of an amount of the country would die.

also like 2 pages ago i think i saw Keitaro say he woulda gone into the army supporting the iraq war, too bad u couldnt of gone. i think if u had and made it bak it would have changed ur perspective on the war when u found ur team killing civilians and not the huge terrorist the media makes it out to be. dont worry, when the US's troops all start dying, becomes really despirate for toops, ull be in...u think can u bring me bak a picture of the huge pipes sucking oil out of iraq?

Shouryuu · 2004-11-17, 20:18

Will you type coherently? Not to mention your statement is full of fallacies.

1) The vast majority of civilians who have died were killed be insurgents
2) You're obviously suggesting a draft...*laughs* Yeah that's a good way to commit political suicide
3) Oil...there's no reason for me to even say anything because of the absurdity of the suggestion.
4) If you want actual non-biased media...you won't find it in Canada either so I don't know where you're getting your facts from.

Bun-kun · 2004-11-17, 20:35

oi, I'm goin to witness the apocolypes >.< If someone does nuke us, are we really goin to nuke them? There goes another hypocrisy on america part, you're not allowed to have nukes but we can! How are we to tell other country to disarm if we aren't goin to ourselves? Oh apologies for assuming those that support Bush are christian, but it seems that the majority that voted for him this year are evangelicals. Heres my gripe, these christian claiming to be moral and followers of Jesus aren't getting the picture of what the bible said Jesus came here to do. Okay so he said he wasn't a peace bringer but a sword, but his teaching clearly state otherwise. Not one time did he preach violence was okay, not one time did he said thou shall not kill unless...... not one time did he mention abortion (even though it happened around him), not one time did he mention homosexuality, and he preach above all forgiveness and compassion towards those that are in poverty. I think thats an instance where Jesus sees a tax collector givin money to show off and condemns him, then he sees a poor woman giving money and praise her. How can christians vote for someone who cut taxes for the richest of America? "Its harder for a rich man to reach heaven, then for a camel (rope, as SCC corrected) to go through an eye of a needle" Most of the Administration are very rich ppl and they only look out for there friends who are rich, not the American ppl (if so then our employment rate would be goin up instead of down, amongst many other domestic problem) and it has been shown through out the last 4 year, and the next 4 won't be any differrent. I'm just trying to say I denounce violence of any kind, whether its Osama or Bush, to me these ppl are one in the same. Yes there methods are difference but they are killing humans nonetheless ( I think both religion has a tenet of "thou shalt not kill). They like to use religion as an excuse to get there ways and that is despicable in my eyes. Religion ties into this thread more then you know because this war we are fighting are because of religious issue, if you think Osama attacked us because of our freedom you've have mistaken. Again with Saddam NO WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION, NO THREAT , someone who support the war tell me a GOOD reason why we went!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one has yet answer me, if THERE WAS NO WMD, AND NO THREAT, WHY? if Revenge is the answer, then my friend in the Marines are dying for someone elses cause not America's! My tax dollars are goin to a frivolous war that is creating more terrorist then stoping them. We have to use non-violence to really created peace. I feel harming another human is bad in any case, DO ON TO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD LIKE DONE UNTO YOU!!!!! (hopeful everyone has learn that in kindergarten)

aahhsin · 2004-11-17, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bun-kun

oi, I'm goin to witness the apocolypes >.< If someone does nuke us, are we really goin to nuke them? There goes another hypocrisy on america part, you're not allowed to have nukes but we can! How are we to tell other country to disarm if we aren't goin to ourselves?

SALT II Pact treaty with Russia. Sure it didn't remove the Nukes, but it attempted to reduce them.

Quote:

How can christians vote for someone who cut taxes for the richest of America? "Its harder for a rich man to reach heaven, then for a camel (rope, as SCC corrected) to go through an eye of a needle" Most of the Administration are very rich ppl and they only look out for there friends who are rich, not the American ppl (if so then our employment rate would be goin up instead of down, amongst many other domestic problem) and it has been shown through out the last 4 year, and the next 4 won't be any differrent.

Let's see where I can pick at. Let's look at Tax Cuts. The poor don't recieve any because they already do NOT pay any taxes. It's quite simple actually. The rich believe it or not, pays the most taxes. Sure you can argue about how the rich only take up 10% of the population, but hey, if I pay 10 dollars in taxes and some rich guy pays 100 dollars, and we give a tax cut of 50%. I'll be paying $5 and he'll be paying $50.

Granted the middle/poor class have less income in the long run, one rich guy pays more then 100 poor guys. Believe it or not.

And that's the whole logic of why the rich seems to benefit more from the tax cuts. I can go on about another point, if you really want to know.

BTW, the Unemployment rate is going down not up. I don't know where you can generalize that these next four years will be the same as the last four years. Last time I checked, nobody in the world can tell the future.

Quote:

I'm just trying to say I denounce violence of any kind, whether its Osama or Bush, to me these ppl are one in the same. Yes there methods are difference but they are killing humans nonetheless ( I think both religion has a tenet of "thou shalt not kill). They like to use religion as an excuse to get there ways and that is despicable in my eyes. Religion ties into this thread more then you know because this war we are fighting are because of religious issue, if you think Osama attacked us because of our freedom you've have mistaken. Again with Saddam NO WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION, NO THREAT , someone who support the war tell me a GOOD reason why we went!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because we didn't know Saddam DIDN'T have WMDs. What if he did? Want to wait and find out, or go in there, whoop 'em and as a quote goes

"Better Safe then Sorry"

Paragraphs are your friends. Remember that.

Mcdonalds · 2004-11-17, 20:59

Yes better safe the sorry

But, from what the inspectors were doing, they were checking saddam out every day (until U.S. decided to go and invade. If the U.S. didn't plan on hearing out the weapons inspectors (e.g. when they asked that they needed more time to find weapons even though they hadn't found any at the time), then the u.s. should have just invaded instead of all this bs with the weapons inspectors.

Shouryuu · 2004-11-17, 21:01

Wow...that was a rant out of left field. Granted I've only been here a short time but I've yet to see a rant out of you that in some form or fashion does not make a direct bitch slap toward religion(more often than not christianity). Which like I've previously said...if you honestly think there would be no murder, fighting, racism, bigotry, stupidity, or pig-headedness without religion, you are truly a fool. Instead of hiding behind religion, they could use racial purity or hell, they could just say "I want your oil, give it to me or I'll kill all your children."

And before you continue to profess that quote from the Bible...actually learn what the damn moral behind it is. It's quite simple really. It's from a different era when people were generally rich by taking advantage of others in the manner that kings have done over the centuries. Not to mention the other point of it is to give back and to help your fellow man, which again, in that day and age, a vast majority of the rich did not. Today...people can actually have money without taking advantage of others and give aid to those who need it. It's a moral lesson, not a condemnation. I also find it quite ironic a devout atheist would be quoting the Bible in the first place unless his sole intention is to insult and ridicule. In which case, what makes you think you are any better than the dregs of hardcore right-wing christians?

Bun-kun · 2004-11-17, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shouryuu

Wow...that was a rant out of left field. Granted I've only been here a short time but I've yet to see a rant out of you that in some form or fashion does not make a direct bitch slap toward religion(more often than not christianity). Which like I've previously said...if you honestly think there would be no murder, fighting, racism, bigotry, stupidity, or pig-headedness without religion, you are truly a fool. Instead of hiding behind religion, they could use racial purity or hell, they could just say "I want your oil, give it to me or I'll kill all your children."

And before you continue to profess that quote from the Bible...actually learn what the damn moral behind it is. It's quite simple really. It's from a different era when people were generally rich by taking advantage of others in the manner that kings have done over the centuries. Not to mention the other point of it is to give back and to help your fellow man, which again, in that day and age, a vast majority of the rich did not. Today...people can actually have money without taking advantage of others and give aid to those who need it. It's a moral lesson, not a condemnation. I also find it quite ironic a devout atheist would be quoting the Bible in the first place unless his sole intention is to insult and ridicule. In which case, what makes you think you are any better than the dregs of hardcore right-wing christians?

I quote it to bring ppl who are believing in it to see my views, because I have to admit I share most of the views Jesus does, buddha does, Mohammad, or any other big religious figure. That is peace and compassion for others. What do you mean the rich not suppress the poor, if we didn't the kids in Asia would be gettign paid the same amount of money American do. I quote the bible to show hypocrisy in those who believes in it. If the majority was buddhist, islam, or hindu, I would do the same. Religious ppl preach something and then go against what is right. Oh about teh tax thing, if you make lots of money don't you think it patriotic to give some of it back? To help those that are in need of it? Greed the other cause of strife in this word, it's even more powerful then religion. No I don't think that the would be less murder, less fighting, less bigotry, but religion in the pass 2 thousand year haven't proven itself to be a peace maker. I see religion bringin more strife because of misintepretation, and ppl own greed using there religion as an excuse to get what they want. If you talkin about the bible verses are from different era then most of it we can disregard because it is from a different era and the morales of the bible do not apply today.....so Woman Equal rights, Homosexual Marriage, Interracial marriage, o.0 Maturbation, premarrital sex

aahhsin · 2004-11-17, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bun-kun

I quote it to bring ppl who are believing in it to see my views, because I have to admit I share most of the views Jesus does, buddha does, Mohammad, or any other big religious figure. That is peace and compassion for others. What do you mean the rich not suppress the poor, if we didn't the kids in Asia would be gettign paid the same amount of money American do.

That's just silly.

The reason kids in Asia do not get paid more then Americans is because typically they are willing to work for the same job at a lower wage. That's it. It's like asking 2 janitors to mop the floor. One is willing to do it for a buck a day, the other for 2 bucks a day. Who would you hire?

Quote:

Oh about teh tax thing, if you make lots of money don't you think it patriotic to give some of it back? To help those that are in need of it? Greed the other cause of strife in this word, it's even more powerful then religion. No I don't think that the would be less murder, less fighting, less bigotry, but religion in the pass 2 thousand year haven't proven itself to be a peace maker. I see religion bringin more strife because of misintepretation, and ppl own greed using there religion as an excuse to get what they want.

As for your assumtion that the Rich doesn't give back to the poor. There's an interesting article that stated Bill Gates the richest man in America gave 1 billion dollars back to Charity.

He just gave away more money then all of us combined can earn.

Religion may not have proven itself to give peace, but what could? There's even a theory where the best way to achieve peace is with a knife.

Did you know throughout all of written history, there has only been 200 years of peace in the entire world? The rest of the 99800 years, there has been a war somewhere.

Bun-kun · 2004-11-17, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by aahhsin

That's just silly.

The reason kids in Asia do not get paid more then Americans is because typically they are willing to work for the same job at a lower wage. That's it. It's like asking 2 janitors to mop the floor. One is willing to do it for a buck a day, the other for 2 bucks a day. Who would you hire?

Greed, more $$ for the me right? Those Asian kids, what a bunch of suckers

9 thousand something years huh, hmmm out of those I bet 99.9999 percent are due to greed, and greed using religion as an excuse, thanks for proving me right

Mcdonalds · 2004-11-17, 21:53

I don't really want to pass comment, (and yes i agree with bush being a warmonger) but i do think aahsin has a point here. Why would you pay someone who is willing to work for less more money. If they felt the need to earn more money, they would revolt. (or probably be fired and someone in turn who is in need of this money would work but thats not the point). Those factories provide them people with jobs they would otherwise not have and they are happy with it (just like western workers are satisfied with their pay even if it is considerably higher although so is their living costs). Anyway point is, when everyone is paid the same, it is called a communism, but then everyone would have to do same amount of work, get given the same etc etc which will never ever happen so just forget about it (just look at china's communisms, corrupt as fuck although it is getting better i think). I do disagree with the rich getting tax cuts, but thats a different point. Some rich do give back to the poor and not all the rich have factories in 3rd world countries (if that is the basis of your argument of the rich manipulating the poor). Anyway as for wars due to religion, the leaders would probably use some different argument if religion was not there even though it is used to supress the majority. You can argue that religion is a bad thing. Personally don't think it would make a different, and if anything religion helps in maintaining morals etc. Without the bible, there wouldn't be though shall not murder, steal etc etc which i think contributes highly to human society.

Quote:

Eventually the human race will move pass religion and we will open our eyes and see how stupid we were back then. Untill that day comes people will continue killing each other over their beliefs.

For this person, for all you know we non religious people could be the wrong ones and in a thousand years time we can see how stupid all us scientific thinkers were.

By the way, i do not believe in religion although if it was one, it'd be buddhism (but because i'm a shaolin wannabe, the kung fu part anyway.)

Bun-kun · 2004-11-18, 05:54

okay getting paid less is one thing, puthing kids to work is another. If these company we'ren't so greedy they wouldn't hire 9 year olds to do there job. Hence rich suppressing poor. They use these kids misfortune as a way to get bigger profit. EH they're poor anyways lets give them a quarter a day (what my cousin in cambodia is getting paid in a Gap sweat shop) and there'll be happy. pffft.

~~user8047~~ · 2004-11-18, 16:41

before i wasnt speaking of drafting, i was speaking on how so much less people wanna inlist for the war against iraq becuz many of them r scared of dying, and dont c the cause. have u seen the people that try to inlist guys for the war going around asking people, 1 of them asked a grade 9. sooner or later the requirements for the iraq war will go down.

and me living in canada has nothing to do with my knoledge on this war. we get just as much information, and if ur info's comming from the internet, its open to every1 in the world who can access it

and oil is a very probable reason for the war, if its not that, wats the reason?

also a big part of the reason bill gates donnated 1 billion dollars to charity, is becuz if he never donated money, and gave bak to the comunity, people would hate him. hes the richest man in the world with billions of dollars(like 50 billion or somthing), if he didnt donate at allthat could reflect badly on his company. im sure if some one like bun-kun, or some 1 just as generours for example had this kind of billions of dollars would donate much more, and start funds and such. a lot (not all) of men/women that are very rich donate so they dont seem greedy and nothing bad will reflect on their buisness or w/e ther motives are

Izzy · 2004-11-18, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bun-kun

okay getting paid less is one thing, puthing kids to work is another. If these company we'ren't so greedy they wouldn't hire 9 year olds to do there job. Hence rich suppressing poor. They use these kids misfortune as a way to get bigger profit. EH they're poor anyways lets give them a quarter a day (what my cousin in cambodia is getting paid in a Gap sweat shop) and there'll be happy. pffft.

but isn't this the responsibility of the Cambodian government to stop such acts....not the US government?

Bun-kun · 2004-11-18, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy

but isn't this the responsibility of the Cambodian government to stop such acts....not the US government?

You are correct sir that it is the responsiblity of the Cambodian government to, and I'm one of those that is currently speaking out against them. I depise the corrupt Cambodian government very much. But it is also I feel the responsibity of these big Company to not higher children to work, they aere taking avantage of the poor, yes the rich taking advantage of the poor still exist today as it did back in ancient times. I can't believe someone would say the the rich are no longer takng advantage of the poor. Ceo puffin on big cigars on a beach sippin on brandy, while ten year olds make money for them. Hmmm something is definately wrong with that picture.

tanuki · 2004-11-18, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy

but isn't this the responsibility of the Cambodian government to stop such acts....not the US government?

Problem is one of supply and demand. If there is a foreign demand for dirt cheap labor, there's no shortage of economically poor third world countries willing to compete with each other to supply the labor to meet that demand. When companies located in more prosperous industrialized nations look at these poor countries, they see a surplus population of unemployed workers hungry for any jobs they can get. That surplus of unemployed workers is viewed as just another natural resource that can be exploited in the persuit of profit. For the people living in these countries their backs are against the wall and it's a matter of accepting work which pays next to nothing, or not working at all and risk starving because their government offers few (if any) social programs those out of work can fallback on to cover food, housing, and medical expenses. Government officials in these poor countries aren't going to stop the exploitation of the workers because even if they aren't being paid corporate kickbacks by foreign companies under the table to let the matter slide, they will consider the political and economic stability that comes from the people working for some amount of money better than the instability that would come from having a large portion of the population out of work (and with plenty of time on their hands to vent their dissatisfaction at the government over this situation).

aahhsin · 2004-11-18, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bun-kun

Greed, more $$ for the me right? Those Asian kids, what a bunch of suckers

9 thousand something years huh, hmmm out of those I bet 99.9999 percent are due to greed, and greed using religion as an excuse, thanks for proving me right

I never said they used Religion as an excuse for their greed. Heck I'm confused what your definition of greed is now.

Besides the fact most of the Wars fought are to help supply what people need. It's mostly fought because the guy with less supply of an item needs more of it. Since they can't get it in their own territory what do they do? Go take some from another.

Here's an hypothetical situation

Let's assume I get 2 ml of water, and my neighbor gets 10 ml of water. I don't have enough to survive off 2ml worth of water and so I just go take some from a guy that seems to have plenty of it. But little do I know that guy with 10ml of water needs to use all of it to feed his 5 kids and wife, too bad for them I don't care about their own welfare but my own. So conflict now arises in order for either one of us to survive. Heck take a look at China right now due to the 1 birth per family law. Typically people want Sons and there's a shortage on daughters. So what do the Chinese do? Run south grab a Vietnamese girl. and run away.

It's not really greed, that I need more water just because I want it, it's more like I got to do what I got to do to survive.

Heck, revenge is even an easier reason to go to war.

~~user8047~~ · 2004-11-19, 00:41

u can steal other peoples resources all u want, soon theyll be gone. in 50 years or so we'll have no oil, and itll be too late to make alternate solutions of power to use as alternatives for our many uses of oil. instead of thinking ahead were not doing any thing productive to create wind generators and things that require oil to make. if we dont start making them well in advance wat will we do when were out of oil? wat other alternatives r there?
bush should use his oil now to create wat we'll need in the future, if it keeps being delayed we'll be screwed. he just stole a bunch of oil, the only reason he woulnt invest it into somthing is becuz the oil has to be made into money so the rich can get even richer. these companys r getting richer off of the deathes of americans who faught and still fight for the oil, lives for money.

TheLaughingMan · 2004-11-19, 01:16

A lot of these recent arguments just seem to be jaded, and capitalism bashing. Come on, lets be honest, the world runs on money, not good will. There is nothing wrong with making money. I really don't get the connection between overseas sweatshops and the US+Bush being evil, corporatel money grubbers.

And stop saying "Bush and the US(well, it seems like you are implying the US also) are stealing resources...", what is this even in reference to? Yeah, lots of us Americans are benefiting from Iraqi oil! Damn, I just feel better knowing I have stolen Iraqi oil in my fuel tank! The only resource stealing I know of is China taking undersea resources from Japanese territory.

If anything, the Middle Eastern countries are the ones fleecing the world with their oil monopolies and price gouging. It's just simple supply and demand, or "smart business", welcome to the world.

2004-11-17, 20:01	Link #102
Shouryuu ショウリュウ Join Date: Nov 2004 Age: 38	That...I agree with...damn you. Of course...I'm sure the rest of the world would fall in love with us once again. Not that I care...but random nukings can't look too good. It's doubtful you'd be able to prove which country is harboring him either and, in some circumstances, if the gov't aided in concealing him.

2004-11-17, 20:10	Link #103
~~user8047~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Canada	had they nuked the states the retaliation would would far worse for them, and the would probably be worse than previous attacks with nukes. since iraq is alredy in pain, and many people are dead, if they were nuked who knows how large of an amount of the country would die. also like 2 pages ago i think i saw Keitaro say he woulda gone into the army supporting the iraq war, too bad u couldnt of gone. i think if u had and made it bak it would have changed ur perspective on the war when u found ur team killing civilians and not the huge terrorist the media makes it out to be. dont worry, when the US's troops all start dying, becomes really despirate for toops, ull be in...u think can u bring me bak a picture of the huge pipes sucking oil out of iraq?

2004-11-17, 20:18	Link #104
Shouryuu ショウリュウ Join Date: Nov 2004 Age: 38	Will you type coherently? Not to mention your statement is full of fallacies. 1) The vast majority of civilians who have died were killed be insurgents 2) You're obviously suggesting a draft...laughs Yeah that's a good way to commit political suicide 3) Oil...there's no reason for me to even say anything because of the absurdity of the suggestion. 4) If you want actual non-biased media...you won't find it in Canada either so I don't know where you're getting your facts from.

2004-11-17, 20:35	Link #105
Bun-kun Liberal Screamer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: New York Age: 41	oi, I'm goin to witness the apocolypes >.< If someone does nuke us, are we really goin to nuke them? There goes another hypocrisy on america part, you're not allowed to have nukes but we can! How are we to tell other country to disarm if we aren't goin to ourselves? Oh apologies for assuming those that support Bush are christian, but it seems that the majority that voted for him this year are evangelicals. Heres my gripe, these christian claiming to be moral and followers of Jesus aren't getting the picture of what the bible said Jesus came here to do. Okay so he said he wasn't a peace bringer but a sword, but his teaching clearly state otherwise. Not one time did he preach violence was okay, not one time did he said thou shall not kill unless...... not one time did he mention abortion (even though it happened around him), not one time did he mention homosexuality, and he preach above all forgiveness and compassion towards those that are in poverty. I think thats an instance where Jesus sees a tax collector givin money to show off and condemns him, then he sees a poor woman giving money and praise her. How can christians vote for someone who cut taxes for the richest of America? "Its harder for a rich man to reach heaven, then for a camel (rope, as SCC corrected) to go through an eye of a needle" Most of the Administration are very rich ppl and they only look out for there friends who are rich, not the American ppl (if so then our employment rate would be goin up instead of down, amongst many other domestic problem) and it has been shown through out the last 4 year, and the next 4 won't be any differrent. I'm just trying to say I denounce violence of any kind, whether its Osama or Bush, to me these ppl are one in the same. Yes there methods are difference but they are killing humans nonetheless ( I think both religion has a tenet of "thou shalt not kill). They like to use religion as an excuse to get there ways and that is despicable in my eyes. Religion ties into this thread more then you know because this war we are fighting are because of religious issue, if you think Osama attacked us because of our freedom you've have mistaken. Again with Saddam NO WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION, NO THREAT , someone who support the war tell me a GOOD reason why we went!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one has yet answer me, if THERE WAS NO WMD, AND NO THREAT, WHY? if Revenge is the answer, then my friend in the Marines are dying for someone elses cause not America's! My tax dollars are goin to a frivolous war that is creating more terrorist then stoping them. We have to use non-violence to really created peace. I feel harming another human is bad in any case, DO ON TO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD LIKE DONE UNTO YOU!!!!! (hopeful everyone has learn that in kindergarten)

2004-11-17, 20:59	Link #107
Mcdonalds Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: United Kingdom Age: 38	Yes better safe the sorry But, from what the inspectors were doing, they were checking saddam out every day (until U.S. decided to go and invade. If the U.S. didn't plan on hearing out the weapons inspectors (e.g. when they asked that they needed more time to find weapons even though they hadn't found any at the time), then the u.s. should have just invaded instead of all this bs with the weapons inspectors.

2004-11-17, 21:01	Link #108
Shouryuu ショウリュウ Join Date: Nov 2004 Age: 38	Wow...that was a rant out of left field. Granted I've only been here a short time but I've yet to see a rant out of you that in some form or fashion does not make a direct bitch slap toward religion(more often than not christianity). Which like I've previously said...if you honestly think there would be no murder, fighting, racism, bigotry, stupidity, or pig-headedness without religion, you are truly a fool. Instead of hiding behind religion, they could use racial purity or hell, they could just say "I want your oil, give it to me or I'll kill all your children." And before you continue to profess that quote from the Bible...actually learn what the damn moral behind it is. It's quite simple really. It's from a different era when people were generally rich by taking advantage of others in the manner that kings have done over the centuries. Not to mention the other point of it is to give back and to help your fellow man, which again, in that day and age, a vast majority of the rich did not. Today...people can actually have money without taking advantage of others and give aid to those who need it. It's a moral lesson, not a condemnation. I also find it quite ironic a devout atheist would be quoting the Bible in the first place unless his sole intention is to insult and ridicule. In which case, what makes you think you are any better than the dregs of hardcore right-wing christians?

2004-11-18, 05:54	Link #113
Bun-kun Liberal Screamer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: New York Age: 41	okay getting paid less is one thing, puthing kids to work is another. If these company we'ren't so greedy they wouldn't hire 9 year olds to do there job. Hence rich suppressing poor. They use these kids misfortune as a way to get bigger profit. EH they're poor anyways lets give them a quarter a day (what my cousin in cambodia is getting paid in a Gap sweat shop) and there'll be happy. pffft.

2004-11-18, 16:41	Link #114
~~user8047~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Canada	before i wasnt speaking of drafting, i was speaking on how so much less people wanna inlist for the war against iraq becuz many of them r scared of dying, and dont c the cause. have u seen the people that try to inlist guys for the war going around asking people, 1 of them asked a grade 9. sooner or later the requirements for the iraq war will go down. and me living in canada has nothing to do with my knoledge on this war. we get just as much information, and if ur info's comming from the internet, its open to every1 in the world who can access it and oil is a very probable reason for the war, if its not that, wats the reason? also a big part of the reason bill gates donnated 1 billion dollars to charity, is becuz if he never donated money, and gave bak to the comunity, people would hate him. hes the richest man in the world with billions of dollars(like 50 billion or somthing), if he didnt donate at allthat could reflect badly on his company. im sure if some one like bun-kun, or some 1 just as generours for example had this kind of billions of dollars would donate much more, and start funds and such. a lot (not all) of men/women that are very rich donate so they dont seem greedy and nothing bad will reflect on their buisness or w/e ther motives are

2004-11-19, 00:41	Link #119
~~user8047~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Canada	u can steal other peoples resources all u want, soon theyll be gone. in 50 years or so we'll have no oil, and itll be too late to make alternate solutions of power to use as alternatives for our many uses of oil. instead of thinking ahead were not doing any thing productive to create wind generators and things that require oil to make. if we dont start making them well in advance wat will we do when were out of oil? wat other alternatives r there? bush should use his oil now to create wat we'll need in the future, if it keeps being delayed we'll be screwed. he just stole a bunch of oil, the only reason he woulnt invest it into somthing is becuz the oil has to be made into money so the rich can get even richer. these companys r getting richer off of the deathes of americans who faught and still fight for the oil, lives for money.

2004-11-19, 01:16	Link #120
TheLaughingMan Nee-san is... Join Date: Feb 2004	A lot of these recent arguments just seem to be jaded, and capitalism bashing. Come on, lets be honest, the world runs on money, not good will. There is nothing wrong with making money. I really don't get the connection between overseas sweatshops and the US+Bush being evil, corporatel money grubbers. And stop saying "Bush and the US(well, it seems like you are implying the US also) are stealing resources...", what is this even in reference to? Yeah, lots of us Americans are benefiting from Iraqi oil! Damn, I just feel better knowing I have stolen Iraqi oil in my fuel tank! The only resource stealing I know of is China taking undersea resources from Japanese territory. If anything, the Middle Eastern countries are the ones fleecing the world with their oil monopolies and price gouging. It's just simple supply and demand, or "smart business", welcome to the world.