[Anime-only] Naruto Shippuden Episode 204 Discussion

[Kallen4life]

yeah, Madara's stories seem to provide like 99% of long-term plot .. Mr. Exposition


Susanoo likely puts a great deal of strain, mental, physical AND chakra on the user, not to mention detiorates MS faster then either Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu .. Itachi however was sick with something else, although using Susanoo obviously didn't help

the sword and shield are nowhere to be seen and Sasuke's version so far is hardly invincible - melting from Mizukage's acid .. I guess they are either unique to Itachi himself or Sasuke has to fully master (not just fully form the figure) it to get em

Uchiha shares the same problem with Kakashi, their chakra and stamina aren't the greatest

I think Uchihas are a little bit better off - they have normal chakra, maybe even higher then normal (although ofc nowhere near Kisame, Pein or bijuu/jinchuriki .. or even naruto who has high stamina even w/o the fox), it's just that Sharingan drains some chakra (although that can be minimised with mastery) and MS drains A LOT more .. and Sasuke just generally likes chakra-consuming techniques (or is forced to use em) .. meanwhile, I think it was stated that Kakashi actually has low/lower then normal chakra and being genetically incompatible with the Sharingan doesn't help ... him being a genius and mastering the Sharingan and copying 'a 1000 jutsus' offsets that though


I'd say after fighting a few kages like that most top-tiers would be exhausted and Kakashi'd be dead probably

but Sasuke should really think before leaping .. Madara being around is actually benefitial to his health so far ^^

[Wakan Tanka]

It could be part of Madara project, make Itachi weaker so that Sasuke gets the EMS and fully develops a complete invincible form of Susano and Sasuke is obsessed with revenge, he'll do anything to be a true avenger. Madara knows that Itachi won't kill his brother so he won't get EMS (he got rid of Itachi here and gained Sasuke's trust). MS alone is not enough to use Susano to the fullest.

[Kallen4life]

I dunno, Itachi's Susanoo certainly seemed invincible, I think it was complete

EMS' first and biggest gain is no blindness - ever .. that alone is quite enough tbh

possibly an additional technique



also, I wonder if Madara himself even can use Susanoo - afaik it was stated that Susanoo needs 2 MS eyes (while Amaterasu & Tsukuyomi come from one each) and, well, who knows what's under that mask of his in the 2-nd eye socket .. besides, he's supposedly not at the top of his game atm and Susanoo is one of the most draining abilities in naruto (exceeded probably by Pein's Konoha-erasing Shinra Tensei & his mass Phoenix Down ^^ .. maybe by the Chibaku Tensei too) .. then again defence-wise he likely doesn't need Susanoo

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by monir

Here is a quick question: how do you levitate? This would be the second time such display was on screen. Pain's levitation is a bit more self explanatory due to the nature of his power. Tuschikage's, on the other hand, I have a vague idea. It probably is something similar to Gara's sand manipulation. That is one cool geezer.

It seems that the manipulation of an object's mass is based on earth element manipulation. I mean sand is a special form of earth, and Gaara's sand could levitate. It's also logical to assume earth since gravity can be connected to that element more than any other of the 4 elements.
Pain in the manga didn't really levitate, only int the anime was it clearly levitation, in the manga it seemed more like his push/pull power used on himself. But it is hard to decide since Nagato was incapacitated and could not move by himself, so he either used levitation to go to Konoha or he summoned himself with the animal realm body. But in battle, in the manga, he never explicitly used levitation. But we know that he mastered all 5 elements at age of about 10, so it might be he could use earth element based levitation.

Originally Posted by monir

Sasuke was outclassed in every instance of this battle. He was barely handling Raikage and yet didn't mind barreling into the conference of the other kages.
...
Usually Sasuke is the one that is awe inspiring in a fight, but this time ...

Wow, i didn't expect anyone being surprised that Sasuke can't handle the strongest people in the Narutoverse I mean those are freaking kages with their best 2 ninjas, i was more surprised that Sasuke could survive so long
He's just a 16 years old boy now who was always weaker than Itachi. And here my impression was that Sasuke was on the raikage's level, it was raikage who mindlessly attacked to lose his arm and leg. Had he killed Sasuke but lost both his arm and leg i would not call that "outclassed".

Why he survived is because his Susano and amaterasu is constantly being upgraded by Kishimoto, when he was hit by the raikage he had only a shitty small skeleton around him and even that saved his life. By the end of the fight he had a whole monster. He was running out of stamina and chakra probably, so that's the only reason he failed to beat some kages, it was clearly shown that his chakra level dropped (Karin's and Sasuke's comments) before the mizukage and tsuchikage attacked him. This battle indicates that Sasuke will soon develop his susano to a level that's near to Itachi, the only question is if he will have such godlike weapons like Itachi's susano (sword and mirror).

Originally Posted by monir

The episode also taught me that it is a very bad idea to give Mizukage mouth to mouth resuscitation if the occasion ever calls for it. She vomits lava for heaven's sake. She is still a hotty though....! I would even go as far as to say she is hotter than Hunter when he is saying, "and you have the right to be wrong..."

Now we know why she cannot find a husband. More and more secrets are revealed by Kishimoto

[octaviahawk]

So interesting, I wonder why Madra lets Sasuke loose like that- my guess is that he's just trying to stir up chaos. Seems Uchiha Madra really just likes to screw around with people for his own amusement- which I guess makes sense, considering just how old he is. He must of gotten bored in addition to being pissed off, so he's really enjoying himself here!

Yar, Sasuke is really lame, but I still don't want to see him die yet? Why? Because that'll be Naruto's job (what a fine day that will be). The more I watch of Sasuke, the more I dislike him. Karin, on the other hand, I tend to enjoy more and more- I have a dream she'll one day dump Sasuke, turn herself over to Konoha, and become bff with Sakura-chan Lol.

Anyway, great episode! Especially the Mizukage, she's freakin awesome! I wish she had more screen time to kick Sasuke's butt around a lil' longer!

[Kallen4life]

yeah, Madara is quite the troll .. I like him even more then Aizen in that role - Aizen was kinda too much & over the top, but Madara brings realistic lulz ^^

[Wakan Tanka]

I wonder if the Transportation no Jutsu has some side-effects, like aging.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Why he survived is because his Susano and amaterasu is constantly being upgraded by Kishimoto, when he was hit by the raikage he had only a shitty small skeleton around him and even that saved his life. By the end of the fight he had a whole monster.

I think its funny when people pick and choose convenient times to look at the story through an in-story perspective, and an out-of-story perspective. Specifically, when Naruto gains a valuable ability, its all because of his hard work. However, when someone else you may not like gains an ability, suddenly, Kishimoto is brought into it, as if he is actually in the story granting people powers. If Sasuke excels at anything its because Kishimoto threw him a "power-up"; and he doesn't work hard at all. I think its pretty obvious that strong emotion has alot to do with the Mangenkyo(how you get it as well as how it evolves ), and it shouldn't be a surprise that Sasuke pulls out a full monster when he was about to die (similar to his amaterasu under duress in the fight with KB).

FYI, Susanno was first shown in its most powerful form, when Itachi debuted it. What we're seeing here is a novice MS user gaining experience with a new ability, which will eventually build up to what we were introduced with via Itachi. You're saying Kishimoto is constantly upgrading it as if we didn't know what Susanoo is supposed to be like.

[Kallen4life]

agreed, Sasuke is a top tier fighter with lots of hardcore training, pure skill & genius and MS .. he was forced to develop Susanoo to just survive and still needed Madara's help .. also it's possible Itachi gave him some info (together with the one-time Amaterasu) on how to use MS techniques, hence he could use em right away, despite having just got MS .. and he turned out to be a natural with Amaterasu (not surprising .. Uchihas = fire and Sasuke always was proficient with ninjutsu .. meanwhile Tsukuyomi mastery likely requires a cold & methodic intellect, which Itachi had and Sasuke lacks) .. or maybe it's simpler, just concentrate and it comes out - he has seen (and fought against) all of the techniques after all

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

agreed, Sasuke is a top tier fighter with lots of hardcore training, pure skill & genius and MS ..

I'm afraid taking the other extreme isn't proving anything, I think it would be better if you attacked my real stance, instead of a strawman. You're right though; he is definetely top-tier pound for pound since probably noone except of course Naruto out of the rookies would even make it past Raikage let alone last this long.

he was forced to develop Susanoo to just survive and still needed Madara's help ..

So what? He managed to survive something no one survived before, and went on to survive a birage of other high-level attacks from the strongest people in the naruto world; of course he'll need help... I'm sure though, had he actually made it out of all that all on his own you'd still be complaining that he's overpowered, and Kishimoto's throwing him power-ups. But when he shows fatigue or vulnerability, he's "pathetic". If you don't like the character you don't like him, but come on, you can't keep up against these powerhouses at this pace and not be exceptionally good, no way.

also it's possible Itachi gave him some info (together with the one-time Amaterasu) on how to use MS techniques, hence he could use em right away, despite having just got MS

I seriously doubt this, nevermind there being no evidence for it whatsoever. The MS is part of his eyes, and he is a full Uchiha; it would seem all of them have some natural instinct on how to use them as they awaken; he's had at least decent proficiency with his other Sharigan abilties leading up to now. He's also been pretty creative with shape manipulation, hence his amaterasu sheild last episode, so I wouldn't bet on your idea that Itachi somehow gave him a lesson on how to use these techniques via that poke on the head.


Listen, the guys a complete jerk. But reasons for fighting or waging war has no bearing on your talent or skill. Naruto and Sasuke both have incredible tenacity, but of course Naurto's is aimed at a much better cause. For instance, although its stupid, Naurto would definetly have the balls to attack a meeting with ninjas on this level and risk his life to save a close friend. Sasuke, did this because he's drunk and delusional with hate. But this doesn't change that he is a kick-ass fighter. Morals? He needs some serious work. Battle-wise? He's one of the best pound for pound; undeniably.

[MikoKikyo]

What a great episode! The fight with the Mizukage was great, but I wish it had been longer. I want the Mizukage's bodyguard, who keeps doubting himself, to do something really awesome. Interesting how Naruto has sort of receded to the background for the moment... I wish Sasuke would calm down, stop being so hateful, choose one of the girls who like him (there's at least 3 to choose from!) and be a more normal shinobi. But I have a feeling that won't happen anytime soon...

['Pryde]

instead of sasuke just staring at the mizukage for like 20 seconds why didn't he just amaterasu her???? i doubt she could dodge it, but i guess she cant just die like tht for story reasons

[neshru]

he was too busy trying not to die from the pain apparently

[Kallen4life]

2 Captain Commando I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what I said


point is that fight went just the way it should've went under the circumstances .. he fought SEVERAL kage - that makes him awesome and a legitimate powerhouse (just as he should be .. a genius Uchiha with training from Orochi, burning revenge & MS) .. BUT he barely just made it out (with some help) - that makes his current level believable .. I wouldn't expect Itachi (even at full health and with non-damaged eyes) or Jiraiya sage-mode to beat the kages either .. maybe Pein (all 7 of em) via surprise attack .. maybe

[HiddenMessage]

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

2 Captain Commando I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what I said


point is that fight went just the way it should've went under the circumstances .. he fought SEVERAL kage - that makes him awesome and a legitimate powerhouse (just as he should be .. a genius Uchiha with training from Orochi, burning revenge & MS) .. BUT he barely just made it out (with some help) - that makes his current level believable .. I wouldn't expect Itachi (even at full health and with non-damaged eyes) or Jiraiya sage-mode to beat the kages either .. maybe Pein (all 7 of em) via surprise attack .. maybe

Itachi Beat Oro with a blank stare. Oro killed the previous sand Kage. Itachi at the state you described should be able to anally rape any Kage. And lets not bring any number of Pein into this. It was said he murdered Hanzo, the man who gave Oro the title people feared.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Wow, i didn't expect anyone being surprised that Sasuke can't handle the strongest people in the Narutoverse I mean those are freaking kages with their best 2 ninjas, i was more surprised that Sasuke could survive so long

I wasn't surprised by that. I was rather surprised by the fact Sasuke would even consider heading toward where Danzo was knowing fully well two other Kages would be there. His decision making had always set him apart. It's usually Naruto who comes across as the designated dumbass who jumps head in without a plan. Sasuke can be many things including his misguided ambition for revenge, but usually he is cool and calculating for the most part. Not this time. How Raikage attacked Sasuke was moot. It's what Sasuke did afterward makes him a dummy for even considering he had a chance taking on several other Kage level. Very un-Sasuke like. I wasn't impressed by any of Sasuke's attack here. He was on the back foot as soon as Raikage showed up. What I think happened was that he was caught up in the moment as he started discovering the awesome defensive skill Susano brought into the table, and his own rendition of the Amaterasu to set up the impregnable defense only made him careless. Sasuke wasn't his usual self. He stole the designated "dumbass" title from Naruto in this episode.

Now if it was Itachi, how would he have handled this? The phrase I'm looking for is "tactical retreat."

Now we know why she cannot find a husband. More and more secrets are revealed by Kishimoto

When Mizukage had a say in it, Sasuke appeared to be the ideal husband material for her. I know I started shipping the Sasuke+Mizukage pair as soon as Mizukage blocked off all exit for any potential escape route for Sasuke.

[james0246]

^Sasuke gets all the Red heads. Shikamaru gets all the Blondes. But Naruto is left with Hinata? That seems very unfair...

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Sasuke gets all the Red heads. Shikamaru gets all the Blondes. But Naruto is left with Hinata? That seems very unfair...

Sasuke is a brunette, don't forget that

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

yeah, Madara is quite the troll ..

To me, Kishi thought in Kubo when he created Madara

[monir]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Sasuke gets all the Red heads. Shikamaru gets all the Blondes. But Naruto is left with Hinata? That seems very unfair...

Hinata... well, she is a category of her own. Silver eyes, ugly hair, and a killer body. Add to the shyness factor in her character, there is a good chance she will be a freak on bed. Naruto is in fact doing quite alright as soon as he is able to look past the pink.

I also disagree with Sasuke-kun's getting all the red heads. Case in point Oro-sama wasn't a red head.

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Sasuke gets all the Red heads. Shikamaru gets all the Blondes. But Naruto is left with Hinata? That seems very unfair...

If Naruto gets all the blueish-haired ones, he'll get Hanabi one day too, so that makes two!

Listen, the guys a complete jerk. But reasons for fighting or waging war has no bearing on your talent or skill.

Takes a lot of skill to just show up in front of a bunch of seriously dangerous people, when Kakashi had stated in their very first training session that ninjas never go out in the open...anyway, I guess his actions are justified because...

Sasuke wasn't his usual self. He stole the designated "dumbass" title from Naruto in this episode.