(L) Elfen Lied

[Deadwings]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

Do you really think that if Maya had suddenly developed vectors that she would not have killed her stepfather. Most weapons require time and effort to use so you have time to change your mind. The vectors can be used instantly before you have time to think things over. And there is no kiss in the manga

With power comes temptation...

Originally Posted by PastPrime

I prefer the original magazine ending. It is the manga ending without

Spoiler:

the Nana-Kurama scene, without the Bando comes back to life scene, and without the Annah and glasses person are still alive scene.

Didn't know that. Sounds a bit more realistic.

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by Deadwings

Didn't know that. Sounds a bit more realistic.

When they said that the manga would have an extended ending everyone was hoping for added information on the twins or showing more of their reunion at the end, or both. Instead we got those other additions which were more like subtraction by addition. I thought the original magazine ending was much better.

[ACSephiroth]

So now with ADV gone and its licenses sold to another company, do you think Elfen Lied will get distributed again?

[radiotom99]

Originally Posted by ACSephiroth

So now with ADV gone and its licenses sold to another company, do you think Elfen Lied will get distributed again?

I sure would love a season 2 for the anime. considering how it ended, it would have to be different from the manga starting in the same point in the story. Basically, more EL for us all! though i bet the ending wont be a live-happily-ever-after one (i consider both anime AND manga has having such an ending). Be it Okamoto having a say in it, or because whoever would write season 2 would defininetly respect the author intention (as being a drama-tragic story). anyway, bring it on!

[Alchemist007]

I'll go out on a limb and say I hope if there's a S2, its quite different than the route the manga went

[Sa-sei]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

Do you really think that if Maya had suddenly developed vectors that she would not have killed her stepfather. Most weapons require time and effort to use so you have time to change your mind. The vectors can be used instantly before you have time to think things over. And there is no kiss in the manga.

You are right about how it takes time but actually,

Spoiler for anime:

Lucy, as a child destroyed families just because she was jealous of their happiness and she had time everyday to think about it before doing it again.

Anyways, I'm not gonna read the manga, so thanks everyone for letting me know what happens in it.

[roriconfan]

^ Haha, it is funny when someone calls Lucy a sad / tragic / innocent girl... because she isn't. Little innocent girls don't enter your houce and slaughter your entire family just to get something to drink from the fridge.

Diclonius were mass murderers despite portraited as crying naked girls. They were crying because they couldn't have fun slicing your limbs slowly and painfully. The supposed drama in this series is a joke.

Hey Kouta, I killed your family but you can forgive me if I don't do it again... oups, did it again...

[Jujubee]

Is it explained in the manga why other Diclonius lose control over their vectors when Nana sticks her's in their heads?

[radiotom99]

^ Haha, it is funny when someone calls Lucy a sad / tragic / innocent girl... because she isn't. Little innocent girls don't enter your houce and slaughter your entire family just to get something to drink from the fridge.

Diclonius were mass murderers despite portraited as crying naked girls. They were crying because they couldn't have fun slicing your limbs slowly and painfully. The supposed drama in this series is a joke.

Hey Kouta, I killed your family but you can forgive me if I don't do it again... oups, did it again...

I dont think anyone can call her inoccent. And I dont think everyone did. She is guilty for what she had done, and there's no doubt about that. ANYONE who looks at Koutas perspective has to agree to that, if it was you in that situation (specially at the end), you would never forgive her. She killed his sister and father afterall. Who says otherwise has serious mental issues


What I think it happens parallel to this is the following: do we, as a viewer, relate in anyway to Lucy? Personally or in the account of others we know.


And how can we relate to a mass murderer freak? its not that hard, because its not the mass murderer part that connects us to the character. its what happen to her that led her to do it. And that is, very simply, solitude and rejection. And it makes me wonder, who of us havent seen or even experienced those feelings? Those of us that have seen it happen, be it to yourself or seeing happening to others, will definetly attach to Lucy, and automatically feel sorry for her, even if just a little. I have my own reasons to feel in some way related to what happen to her. Wich leads me to connect to Lucy and feel sorry for her. BUT I've always thought that she couldnt be forgiven for what she did.

IMO, this is why I like this story so much. Because I related to the character that actually screwed everything up, for her and for others. But I relate to her, and so I feel sorry for her. I dont forgive her, but a part of me wants to. It really doesnt matter what would we do if we were in Lucys shoes, if we could control ourselves or not. Its all in the authors intentions, for we to end up feeling divided between condemning her or forgiving her.

But of course, not everyone feels divided, some people dont really connect to Lucy in anyway (many because are too attached to the idea of "I def wouldnt do all that if it had happen to me"), wich leads them to not feel any sadness while saying that she is entirely guilty. On the other one, there are some who just feel sorry for her for the sake of what happen, without any perssonal parallel to the character, wich is perfectly acceptable. But I think the other extreme doenst happen: for Lucy being totally innocent and all that happened is the fault of all the others that led her to do it. For me, thats just too "out there".

Conclusion: for me, the intentions of this story are clear: its not meant to be a black or white situtation, its something that is meant to leave us divided in our feelings. Some get there, some do not.

Is it explained in the manga why other Diclonius lose control over their vectors when Nana sticks her's in their heads?

I'm not really sure if this was explained or if it is just my view on it, but i have the idea that they loose control of them becouse the vectors touch the part of the frontal brain that has the excessive growth, and wich the vectors are produced, and in some way disturbe that zone thus ending the vector function.

[roriconfan]

Originally Posted by radiotom99

I dont think anyone can call her inoccent. And I dont think everyone did. She is guilty for what she had done, and there's no doubt about that. ANYONE who looks at Koutas perspective has to agree to that, if it was you in that situation (specially at the end), you would never forgive her. She killed his sister and father afterall. Who says otherwise has serious mental issues


What I think it happens parallel to this is the following: do we, as a viewer, relate in anyway to Lucy? Personally or in the account of others we know.


And how can we relate to a mass murderer freak? its not that hard, because its not the mass murderer part that connects us to the character. its what happen to her that led her to do it. And that is, very simply, solitude and rejection. And it makes me wonder, who of us havent seen or even experienced those feelings? Those of us that have seen it happen, be it to yourself or seeing happening to others, will definetly attach to Lucy, and automatically feel sorry for her, even if just a little. I have my own reasons to feel in some way related to what happen to her. Wich leads me to connect to Lucy and feel sorry for her. BUT I've always thought that she couldnt be forgiven for what she did.

IMO, this is why I like this story so much. Because I related to the character that actually screwed everything up, for her and for others. But I relate to her, and so I feel sorry for her. I dont forgive her, but a part of me wants to. It really doesnt matter what would we do if we were in Lucys shoes, if we could control ourselves or not. Its all in the authors intentions, for we to end up feeling divided between condemning her or forgiving her.

But of course, not everyone feels divided, some people dont really connect to Lucy in anyway (many because are too attached to the idea of "I def wouldnt do all that if it had happen to me"), wich leads them to not feel any sadness while saying that she is entirely guilty. On the other one, there are some who just feel sorry for her for the sake of what happen, without any perssonal parallel to the character, wich is perfectly acceptable. But I think the other extreme doenst happen: for Lucy being totally innocent and all that happened is the fault of all the others that led her to do it. For me, thats just too "out there".

Conclusion: for me, the intentions of this story are clear: its not meant to be a black or white situtation, its something that is meant to leave us divided in our feelings. Some get there, some do not.




I'm not really sure if this was explained or if it is just my view on it, but i have the idea that they loose control of them becouse the vectors touch the part of the frontal brain that has the excessive growth, and wich the vectors are produced, and in some way disturbe that zone thus ending the vector function.

That is a load of crock. It is clearly stated that everyone feels solitude as a human being. But in the case of diclonious they are little girls who can use their powers to kill others with ease. And being so young, they are easily acting like spoiled and selfish people, punishing everyone in their path. By the time they realize that killing someone just because he didn't bye you the pony and then the pony for not going fast enough and then everyone else in the surrounds just because you are pissed by the above, then you are a mass murderer no matter how innocent you were thinking as a little kid. The end.

A diclonious race could not exist in the first place. They would kill each other over a simple arguement.

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

That is a load of crock. It is clearly stated that everyone feels solitude as a human being. But in the case of diclonious they are little girls who can use their powers to kill others with ease. And being so young, they are easily acting like spoiled and selfish people, punishing everyone in their path. By the time they realize that killing someone just because he didn't bye you the pony and then the pony for not going fast enough and then everyone else in the surrounds just because you are pissed by the above, then you are a mass murderer no matter how innocent you were thinking as a little kid. The end.

A diclonious race could not exist in the first place. They would kill each other over a simple arguement.

What do you think would happen if you gave a bunch of 3 year olds loaded guns. Do you really think that no one would be killed. That is basically the situation with the vector virus diclonius, and there is no boom or recoils to frighten them. The true diclonius, like Lucy, do not obtain their vectors until they reach puberty so they are old enough to reason. If Lucy had not grown up in that environment it is unlikely that she would have killed or infected people. And, as for the diclonius race not being able to exist,

Spoiler for manga:

They did exist, but 1000 years ago they lost their powers because they intermarried with normal humans. There is no mention of the original diclonius or even the vector virus diclonius that were born in the past, killing normal humans. The decedents of the original diclonius that had horns were hunted and killed as demons. They had to retreat to the Island where the research facility is located. Kakuzawa is a decedent and he hates normal humans. Lucy grew up in that orphanage because he kidnapped her mother because ALL HER CHILDREN were true diclonius. Lucy had a younger half brother and probably other diclonius siblings. I think that the true purpose of the vector virus was to insure that Lucy's children were fully diclonius so the diclonius race would not lose it's powers again. Unfortunately it could infect men and cause them to have sterile diclonius girls who matured rapidly (Nana turns 7 at the Maple Inn), gain their powers when they are 3, and have a voice telling them to kill.
As for killing each other over a simple argument, Lucy took a lot of abuse before she snapped. If they had not beaten her puppy to death it is unlikely that she would have started killing or infecting people.

[radiotom99]

That is a load of crock. It is clearly stated that everyone feels solitude as a human being. But in the case of diclonious they are little girls who can use their powers to kill others with ease. And being so young, they are easily acting like spoiled and selfish people, punishing everyone in their path. By the time they realize that killing someone just because he didn't bye you the pony and then the pony for not going fast enough and then everyone else in the surrounds just because you are pissed by the above, then you are a mass murderer no matter how innocent you were thinking as a little kid. The end.

Maybe I didnt express my views cleary enough, since I dont feel that what i said goes against your own. Even if one is left feeling sorry and feeling compasion to Lucy or any of the other diclonius, it doesnt mean that it considers them innocent. they ARE enterily guilty for their actions, even more that its mentioned that their DNA has a tendency to make them want to kill humans (personified in Lucy by the mental voice urging her to kill everyone). But that is yet another excuse to feel sad for them. We know that they are guilty, and its all because of their instincts (at least in a first stage). The trigger to fire those instincts is already very sensitive due to their obvious looks (and with kids, looks are a pretext for anything, specially a reason to abuse and make fun of, just like what happen to Lucy). And we do see their struggle to fight against these instincts, not just blindly giving up on them at the first time they manifest. And more, we see that it would just take a small and continuing sign of affection to control those instincts:

Spoiler for :

Nana just needed Kurama being there (he almost didnt need to say anything, just the fact that he was there) and Mariko just needed his acceptance in the first place (she stops fighting once he hugs her). So it was just needed so little to avoid so much. And Lucy had that little for a while, but lost it because of a lie.

I do think that it is normal to have these feelings for the characters, specially regarding Lucy, since its her past we see the most. But of course, it doesnt make her inoccent. In fact, personally, while whatching the last 2 episodes, I told myself "she is going to die, after all she's done. there is just no way to pardon her for her actions". But at the same time i felt really sad for her ending up like that. I dont see that farfetch to connect to Lucy since we see her painfull struggle up to the point when she just gives in. NEVER feeling that she deserves forgiveness, but at the same time having a little part of us wishing that there could be a way out for her. Actually, I think this is even more natural than not feeling sorry at all. But hey, I can cope very well with that, not eveyone is a sentimental freak like me

[Yorae_paladin1]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

That is a load of crock. It is clearly stated that everyone feels solitude as a human being. But in the case of diclonious they are little girls who can use their powers to kill others with ease. And being so young, they are easily acting like spoiled and selfish people, punishing everyone in their path. By the time they realize that killing someone just because he didn't bye you the pony and then the pony for not going fast enough and then everyone else in the surrounds just because you are pissed by the above, then you are a mass murderer no matter how innocent you were thinking as a little kid. The end.

A diclonious race could not exist in the first place. They would kill each other over a simple arguement.

not necessarily if the diclonius work on the same way as an insect hive mind they could exist.

if they don't then your right.

[radiotom99]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

A diclonious race could not exist in the first place. They would kill each other over a simple arguement.

I think the manga gives a bit more enlightenment on this. Somewhere in the last volumes,

Spoiler for for manga:

Arakawa mentions something about finding out the true purpose of the vectors: to exterminate human life. Causing the spread of the vector virus, and thus creating a outburst of vector virus diclonius is mainly to ensure total human annihilation and not the creation of a diclonius society.

These vector virus diclonius are just weapons, and the true diclonius race is to be born directly from Lucy from... conventional methods. So I think that the fact that we see these vector virus diclonius killing themselves off doesnt mean a diclonius race wouldnt coexist with itself, since Lucy's offspring might of have different characteristics, such as only having vectors at puberty or at least at an age where rational thought is much more evolved. After all, Lucys killing was triggered by the events she went through, not simply by her natural preposition to do so.

[Jujubee]

I have a question for those who watched the anime. What scenes in it angered you the most? Its strange how out of the whole series, the one thing that pissed me off the most and made me sad was a simple act of apathy. When that woman came and took Wanta [the puppy] out of Mayu's arms while completely ignoring her but acting happy about being reunited with her lost dog. As if Mayu weren't already hurting enough someone takes away her only friend and throws in an insult to boot. This was one scene that hit close to home for me [fortunately since I haven't experienced any of the other horrible acts] because I hate so much when people take you for granted and show no appreciation. You know, those conceited bastards that take a gift or favor and don't even a say thank you.

[ACSephiroth]

Originally Posted by Jujubee

I have a question for those who watched the anime. What scenes in it angered you the most? Its strange how out of the whole series, the one thing that pissed me off the most and made me sad was a simple act of apathy. When that woman came and took Wanta [the puppy] out of Mayu's arms while completely ignoring her but acting happy about being reunited with her lost dog. As if Mayu weren't already hurting enough someone takes away her only friend and throws in an insult to boot. This was one scene that hit close to home for me [fortunately since I haven't experienced any of the other horrible acts] because I hate so much when people take you for granted and show no appreciation. You know, those conceited bastards that take a gift or favor and don't even a say thank you.

Probably the the puppy scene or Mayu's molestation by her own stepfather. Those scenes are very hard to watch.

[Sa-sei]

Originally Posted by Jujubee

I have a question for those who watched the anime. What scenes in it angered you the most?

I think it was Kanae's death scene, how she begged Kouta not to hate her and his reaction but I guess it couldn't be helped since he had no idea of what was going on. I was angry and very sad at the same time.

[Yorae_paladin1]

Originally Posted by radiotom99

I think the manga gives a bit more enlightenment on this. Somewhere in the last volumes,

Spoiler for for manga:

Arakawa mentions something about finding out the true purpose of the vectors: to exterminate human life. Causing the spread of the vector virus, and thus creating a outburst of vector virus diclonius is mainly to ensure total human annihilation and not the creation of a diclonius society.

These vector virus diclonius are just weapons, and the true diclonius race is to be born directly from Lucy from... conventional methods. So I think that the fact that we see these vector virus diclonius killing themselves off doesnt mean a diclonius race wouldnt coexist with itself, since Lucy's offspring might of have different characteristics, such as only having vectors at puberty or at least at an age where rational thought is much more evolved. After all, Lucys killing was triggered by the events she went through, not simply by her natural preposition to do so.

problem with true diclonius is that well lucy is the only one known she would require a normal human mate aka playing black widow but even unless she plans a race made entirely through incest then she will need normal humans. also what ever wanted the human race destruction probaby didn't really care whether diclonius became the dominant bit or not if they die alongside normal humans well at least humans died out. a scenario laid out in fanfic i read nobody won

plus the manga hints lucy didn't really care of making a new race so diclonius would have died out completely

[radiotom99]

problem with true diclonius is that well lucy is the only one known she would require a normal human mate aka playing black widow but even unless she plans a race made entirely through incest then she will need normal humans. also what ever wanted the human race destruction probaby didn't really care whether diclonius became the dominant bit or not if they die alongside normal humans well at least humans died out. a scenario laid out in fanfic i read nobody won

plus the manga hints lucy didn't really care of making a new race so diclonius would have died out completely

True. The possibility of a diclonius race isnt achievable from the perspective that Lucy doenst really give a damn about it. But there is another factor:

Spoiler for for manga:

the twins origin. Lucy dies, and her memories are somehow transfered to other diclonius child, but where did those came from? From Lucys siblings? If they were mere vector virus diclonius, in theory, they would have started a killing spree since its apparent that they use vectors at a very early age (thus not having the necessary judgement capabalities to understand what they are doing), wich leads to them be true diclonius.

There always seems to be something that actually doesnt make the diclonius race prosperity that impossible.

[Yorae_paladin1]

Spoiler:

the twins are not like lucy was there actually nicer they will make the evolution of man diclonius the right way no genocide intended