Utawarerumono Episode 25 Discussion / Poll

[Deathkillz]

^ sick...

well hakuoro is just like a brick wall...i think the time hes been frozen has affected his brain all too much...but has anyone else noticed that all the male chara seems to have a dead sex drive? could be that hakuoro's genes are faulty

[cheenk]

Originally Posted by Cardiac Glycoside

His own fault. He could just call it plausible deniability and continue banging his great^n granddaughter and other females.

Besides, what man is THAT faithful to their main squeeze?

now that you mention it, arent the sex events in the game sort of like incest since they're all technically hakuoro's children?

[Key Board]

That's some serious game spoiler which probably does not belong in this thread

but either way

Spoiler:

the test subjects are mutants spliced with his gene.

Eruru and Aruru are blood line descendents. As in.. he knocked up someone and said child became Eruru's ancestor.

In the game he also has another child, but not with Eruru

[Darklightz]

By the way,I'm starting to believe that Hakuoro may die in the last episode.When Aruruu visit Hakuoro in the night Hakuoro tries to reassure her,to wich she seriously responds ; "Father will not come back".Child's worry or eerie prophecy?

[Cardiac Glycoside]

Key Board I sincerely doubt we will ever see Yuzuha's rape baby.

[Ichy]

Originally Posted by Darklightz

By the way,I'm starting to believe that Hakuoro may die in the last episode.When Aruruu visit Hakuoro in the night Hakuoro tries to reassure her,to wich she seriously responds ; "Father will not come back".Child's worry or eerie prophecy?

I think Hakuoro will survieve and come back to live his live peacefully until he went too sleep for a couple of years.

Or Dii wins and takes over the Harem And Mutsumi gets Benawi as a Present for her hard work.

[Renegade334]

Cheenk, don't forget the spoiler tags. I don't know what exactly was said in ep25 since I don't speak Japanese but I'm not certain that particular tidbit was revealed in this episode. What I gave was a game spoiler - but even then it remains a big spoiler that may or may not be reused by the anime staff.

Originally Posted by Darklightz

By the way,I'm starting to believe that Hakuoro may die in the last episode.When Aruruu visit Hakuoro in the night Hakuoro tries to reassure her,to wich she seriously responds ; "Father will not come back".Child's worry or eerie prophecy?

Spoiler for ending:

Well, it's indeed a quite foreshadowing moment that certainly does not bode any good for Hakuoro - Aruruu has certainly shown herself to be increasingly perceptive towards her adoptive father as of lately, effectively raising the level of credibility we can lend her, even if it's just an omen of a bad moment to pass but nothing bad in the long term. However...

If she says 'father will not come back' it might mean different things like 'things will never be the same again', 'you won't come back as father', etc. I'm fairly certain they'll go along with the game's ending so...okay, not gonna tell. But her words will indeed have their weight, although the game's very ending (and its last, perplexing but suggestive, if not certain, seconds) might bring a tweak in our opinion of how the outcome will be. At any rate, yeah, things will never be the same again. That's all I'm willing to say right now as I'm still pondering what kind of details the staff would pilfer with in order to avoid, tune down or amplify (I'm being deliberately vague here) the game's final atmosphere.

I think I'll have to pass on giving my two cents on this. I'll just wait and see. Anyway, ep26 is barely 48 hours away from us so it's not like we'll have to wait long, devour our nails and fry our brain cells overmuch.

Originally Posted by Cardiac Glycoside

Key Board I sincerely doubt we will ever see Yuzuha's rape baby.

Spoiler:

It wasn't rape, it was pity sex and Oboro had to plead with Hakuoro so that he could fulfill Yuzuha's dearest wish - to have a child so that she could leave in this world a living proof that she had lived her life to her fullest and fought to the end...
...But I guess you were being sarcastic, right?

[Cardiac Glycoside]

Speaking of Aruruu. This is the third time in the series she saved Hakuoro's ass. Shouldn't she get a medal or anything?

Also, after Hakuoro became emperor neither she nor Eruruu got any special kudos or title. I think it would be fitting to say "Princess Aruruu." (Well, I think she gets "princessed" enough since she gets away with just about everything).

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by Cardiac Glycoside

Speaking of Aruruu. This is the third time in the series she saved Hakuoro's ass. Shouldn't she get a medal or anything?

I doubt the UM world is advanced enough to create notions such as decorations, orders or specific commendations. Medals and such are fairly recent (I mean, only a few centuries old) and at the level the UM world is, I don't think they'd have the idea to set up something like that. Since UM is based on the Ainu universe and that there is, to my knowledge, no such thing as medals and whatnot, I don't think we'll see them coming up anytime soon.

Moreover, Aruruu is Hakuoro's family and doesn't exactly require decorations and whatnot - mere respect from the court is more than enough. Topping the fact that she isn't part of the military and that saving her father is more like a family member's duty than a soldier's fulfillment of his oath the serve and protect the emperor, I don't think we'll see her parading in Touskuru's capital like Roman heroes and generals of old.

Also, after Hakuoro became emperor neither she nor Eruruu got any special kudos or title. I think it would be fitting to say "Princess Aruruu." (Well, I think she gets "princessed" enough since she gets away with just about everything).

Eruruu and Aruruu were, IIRC, addressed by Benawi and Touka with the -dono (in English, it'd be "Lady" if I'm not mistaken) suffix, which shows that they're treated with high respect and are now part of the local nobility. Hakuoro has even specified in front of Urutorii (and Benawi, I think) that they were family so, even if they don't get the title of princess because there isn't any blood link between any of them (or so it seems - cf. game spoilers) they are still nobility material. However, I don't think they can, of their own volition, aim for the title of royal. I believe they'd rather choose to be ennobled rather than becoming a royal and possible successor to the throne should Hakuoro step down or die. To press the topic further, it also doesn't seem like in-character for either Eruruu or Aruruu to desire to pursue a royal career. Eruruu is way too passive for that.

No, the only viable, elegible persons for that position are either Oboro (who considers Hakuoro as a big brother of sorts and is a male - we should also consider the fact that males might take precedence over females when it comes to royal succession; but I don't think he'll want to become an ouro - he's too hotheaded and independent for that) and the current retainer, Benawi, who, of the two, shows extreme dedication to his country and people. Urutorii became leader of Onkamiyamukai after Waabe stepped down so she cannot become queen of Touskuru since she'd have another burden on her shoulders - presiding over the Onkamiyamukai's worldwide arbitration and the rebuilding of her ruined country.

[Shiroth]

All this episode needed was some kick-arse 80's style music to go with the start of the battle.. i hope we'll get some in the last episode. ^__^

[Deathkillz]

^ kick ass 80's? got an example?

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

^ kick ass 80's? got an example?

Listening to the OST for the original Guyver OAV from 1986 is probably your best bet - i'll send you some of the tracks sometime~

[Guido]

The cliffhanger with which the episode ended was a blast, and the whole music played exudes its cinema-esque mood, though I felt a bit of place for the sci-fi setting.

The ED theme video sequence does indeed hint at the two sides of Witsuarunimitea, but it is only apparent after episode 13; the scene of Yue's demise. However, the very first images of the God flashed at the very start of episode one.

Spoiler:

I have the complete and broader picture. The previous humanity could not dwell on the planet's surface (likely Earth), and that's why created new specimens in an attempt to populate the planet.
However, by excelling and reaching the limits of their scientific knowledge, they lost most of their morals and values along the path. Most likely, nearly all the scientists came to choose to keep all the specimens inside the complex and not allowing them to leave for the surface.

One of them, however, prompted Iceman to escape with Mikoto, and I assume that he release the locks to allow all other specimens to escape; he fear that very soon will end on the same fate as the rest of his colleagues, losing his own sense of humanity as well.

Unfortunately, Mutsumi was apparently left behind and forgotten into oblivion; explains why she's pissed off at the Witsuarunimitea half that Hakuoro holds.

Question:
1. Who is the man that released the hatches to allow the specimens to escape and encouraged both Iceman and Mikoto to escape?
2. Why was the old humanity unable to live on the surface, despite that up there was a healthy ecosystem and atmosphere?

One more episode to finish. What would become Hakuoro, Eruruu, and Aruruu?

[Renegade334]

I put all of this in spoiler tags because I don't know whether ep 26 will reveal the last secrets of UM. So, if you wish to avoid spoilers about Iceman's past in the lab, then flee away from this post and seek someone else's to read and reflect on.

Originally Posted by Guido

Spoiler:

I have the complete and broader picture. The previous humanity could not dwell on the planet's surface (likely Earth), and that's why created new specimens in an attempt to populate the planet.
However, by excelling and reaching the limits of their scientific knowledge, they lost most of their morals and values along the path. Most likely, nearly all the scientists came to choose to keep all the specimens inside the complex and not allowing them to leave for the surface.

Spoiler:

That's the gist of it although the scientists wanted to keep the specimens close to themselves so that they could continue the experiments that would have allowed their deteriorating bodies to heal and possibly return to a healthier state. Such things (studying new species) would possibly take several lifetimes and in the meantime it'd be unproductive to release your guinea pigs. Hakuoro's DNA (as well as his engimatic mask, imbued with the power of a long lost divinity, although they didn't know it) was a gold mine for them and the creatures derived from his genes were just as interesting and productive.

So why would they release them?

Spoiler:

One of them, however, prompted Iceman to escape with Mikoto, and I assume that he release the locks to allow all other specimens to escape; he fear that very soon will end on the same fate as the rest of his colleagues, losing his own sense of humanity as well.

Spoiler:

Close. Mizushima (that was his name) was the one assigned to observe Iceman and witnessed the budding romance between him and Mikoto. He soon became fond of the two like, I guess, an uncle doting on young people falling in love. When he learned that Iceman and Mikoto would be refrozen for further studies due to an unknown problem they had encountered during the experiments, he started fearing for the two and decided to give his life for those two persons.

He gave Mikoto the key (which was passed to Eruruu through her family line - yep, it's the thick, white ring fastening her hair) to the facility and had them run away. I guess the two of them decided to take as many persons as possible but they forgot Mutsumi and a few others.

Spoiler:

Unfortunately, Mutsumi was apparently left behind and forgotten into oblivion; explains why she's pissed off at the Witsuarunimitea half that Hakuoro holds.

Correct.

Spoiler:

Question:
1. Who is the man that released the hatches to allow the specimens to escape and encouraged both Iceman and Mikoto to escape?

Spoiler:

It's Mizushima, one of the researchers assigned to observe and study Iceman. It's possible he might have been executed for freeing the Multis (code name of those artificial life forms) but he was willing to gamble his life as long as Iceman and Mikoto, whom he'd grown fond of (as a surrogate parent or close friend), would be able to lead a normal, peaceful life. And, yes, I guess that at a point he became appalled by his colleagues' decisions and came to the conclusion that he wouldn't be saved, although I'm not aware of the specifics or if he voiced those worries in the game.

Spoiler:

2. Why was the old humanity unable to live on the surface, despite that up there was a healthy ecosystem and atmosphere?

Spoiler:

That's something that wasn't revealed in the game. All that we know is that after a certain amount of time passed after Iceman became encased in a shroud of ice, the world became a large wasteland, a post-apocalyptic world where humanity was greatly weakened and became unable to live in a biologically hostile environment. It seems that their body defenses couldn't deal with the atmosphere's bacteria, ultimately causing the host's death. The cause of such a biological deterioration is unknown - either it's worldwide pollution causing mass contamination and whatnot, or there was a worldwide war affecting Mankind's remnants through nuclear fallout effects (radiations and the like).

The reason why Iceman became a guinea pig was because his body was unblemished, while the scientists' were incredibly weakened and unprotected even against the most benign of bacteria. Second, it seems that he was able to breathe unfiltered air without falling ill or dying. Those two facts made him a holy grail of sorts. And when the researchers discovered that the mask on his face increased brain activity and imparted the wearer with superior physical abilities, they immediately found in Iceman the way of salvation they had longed for so long.

They created Multis not only to repopulate the world but also to find a cure to their innumerable ailments. They eventually replicated Iceman's mask and found some respite in wearing the duplicates, but they didn't stop there.

[GundamZZ]

Spoiler:

After nuclear war is over, humans are devolved due to their long stay underground. Some normal bacteria is enough to kill them. So, they use their knowledge to create new humanity. The early version is considered too weak, so they destroy those prototype. The rabbit ears people are considered weak, so they rely on old humans' care heavily. If Mikoto didn't escape, she would be discet soon or later. They already did it to Mutsumi. Before Iceman escaped, they disect Mutsumi. TV anime shows her full body, but it's not what happened in the game. The resemebled Mutsumi is probably the final goal of those scientists.



wishful ending
http://air.mods.jp/f/uta/8.htm

[Zaris]

Originally Posted by Guido

Spoiler for questions regarding past:

I have the complete and broader picture. The previous humanity could not dwell on the planet's surface (likely Earth), and that's why created new specimens in an attempt to populate the planet.
However, by excelling and reaching the limits of their scientific knowledge, they lost most of their morals and values along the path. Most likely, nearly all the scientists came to choose to keep all the specimens inside the complex and not allowing them to leave for the surface.

One of them, however, prompted Iceman to escape with Mikoto, and I assume that he release the locks to allow all other specimens to escape; he fear that very soon will end on the same fate as the rest of his colleagues, losing his own sense of humanity as well.

Unfortunately, Mutsumi was apparently left behind and forgotten into oblivion; explains why she's pissed off at the Witsuarunimitea half that Hakuoro holds.

Question:
1. Who is the man that released the hatches to allow the specimens to escape and encouraged both Iceman and Mikoto to escape?
2. Why was the old humanity unable to live on the surface, despite that up there was a healthy ecosystem and atmosphere?

One more episode to finish. What would become Hakuoro, Eruruu, and Aruruu?

Spoiler for Guido's answers:

1. All we know is his name: Mizushima. Nothing else. All the specifics are left out. One is left to assume that he worked with both Iceman and Mikoto long enough to develop a fondness and sympathy for the couple to do what he did.
2. Again, there is no straight answer to this question, so audiences are left to speculation. Global accident, asteroids, immunity defficiency to a changing environment, whatever. Old human species just couldn't live up there, so they dug down and worked on creating a species of human that could. And during that dig, they uncovered this man in ice, called him Iceman, and the rest (as they say) is canon history.

And as for your question regarding the fate of our protagonists...

Spoiler for you have been warned:

The events of the anime are completely different from that of the game at this point, so it's futile to tell you how the game events went so we know what happens in episode 26. But if it is going to follow it roughly, then the least we infer is that:
- Hakuoro is going to slumber/die (which of the two is uncertain. It could go either way)
- Aruruu will be devastated by the loss of daddy
- As Hakuoro vanishes, Eruruu inherits the mask that he wore. Realizing that this important person in her life has gone, she will become equally devastated

[White Manju Bun]

Even after reading all the above posts, this anime still confuses the hell outta me... I kinda get the whole "iceman" thing but I still kinda dont. Oh well its still awesome and Aruruu is awesome for once again saving Hakuoro. Interesting to see how this is gonna end

[d1no]

this BEAST is probably just simply a BEAST, it did a bit of smashing, then BEASTED out this, then beasted, then made a ton of money, then BEASTED.

[Myname]

Originally Posted by Zaris

Well dang, this episode has a lot of ups and downs. I expected a few things to happen, but there are other things that was like, "hey, you're not suppose to say that!"

One thing that really drew my mind as the credits rolled was how completely botched this is compared to the game. But this isn't (and shouldn't be) a comparison between the two forms. In my objective viewpoint, the telling of this episode was superb. Click on the spoiler below to read on. = |

Spoiler for Ok:

The first thing I have to comment is Oboro. I am extremely happy that we got sufficient screentime for a much neglected character AND he isn't pitted in a situation where he's gonna be beaten the crud out of him. It's about time that his character has matured, and Hakuoro entrusting him in his affairs after he's gone really goes to saying that. He's still very emotionally open (as you can tell from the last seconds of the episode), but at least he's developed the ability to restrain himself that was not seen in episode 3 or 4. Talk about coming a long way.

Furthermore, Yuzuha and Oboro got some time together without any disagreement. This is much needed, as prior episodes seemed to suggest that the brother and sister relationship was crumbling (of course, if it was meant to crumble, then the message successfully got through to me). I can't remember the last time the two were in the same room. All in all, Oboro got plenty to do this episode, and I'm very happy he got the spotlight in episode 25. We seemed to have reached the end of the evolution of his personality - which could be a bad thing since now he's no different than Kurou, Benaui, Karura, and Touka, whom their fundamental behaviors will never change. But at least with a stable attitude, we'll see how each individual reacts to the upcoming events of episode 26.

-----------------

Kuuya. Kuuya freaks me out. Probably because she makes so much noise, and I'm not talking about charismatic speeches here. One minute, she's this literate emperor with goals, dreams, and friends. Now she's been reduced to a status beyond maturity, beyond infancy. In short, she's an apple. Don't get me wrong - this was what was suppose to happen and I think it's done well. I'm terrified with what Kuuya has become. Something about the scene, babbling like a baby and such psychological distress, represents an abnormal carnage that befell her. Well voiced. Scary, but effective.

------------------

You can consider the following to be a goof: but you'll notice that Karura and Touka are drinking to remember Genjimaru. Genjimaru's sword is there lying beside the two, but Hakuoro never carried it out of the palace in episode 24, much less the sheath. Unless they went back for it after the flames died down, it shouldn't be there. And if they did, it's not easy for the average viewer to notice that it's the big guy's sword. All we got was a close-up of the grip and the gold-colored guard. People don't normally keep tabs on the color and shape of the guard of a sword...do they. = P

Well, it was nice to see Touka mention Genjimaru, even if it was only a smattering of sentences. I am still disappointed that we didn't get a chance to witness them speaking to each other as Karura and Deihourai did when they met after years of separation. Or maybe race has no boundry for Evinkuruga (an honorable mindset if that).

----------------

And of course, even the central characters got some time together without interuption. Nothing of particular affection, unfortunately, unless you think Hakuoro putting his palm over Aruruu's heart was totally perverted. Here we see the family that has become in 25 episodes. And they stay together throughout the airing of this episode, though I find it a little odd, coincidental, and funny regarding the circumstances in the latter half where Hakuoro, Eruruu, and Aruruu are the only ones pursuing Mutsumi. Then again, maybe the rest of the crew just really really likes killing blobs!

Regardless, this episode pit one "family" against another, and the man of the house just happens to be supernaturals. Interesting symbolism. You still have to wonder how much Aruruu and Eruruu know about Hakuoro and the position that they are in. Aruruu probably doesn't have a clue what Dii is saying when he points at her. And Eruruu retains the new confidence she found within herself from episode 23 and presses that fact against our winged antagonist (which he tilts his head down in pity as a response). But then there's the problem about the vision Hakuoro saw. If Eruruu collapsed, then she probably saw it too. In which case, she must have questions of her own regarding Iceman and Mutsumi.

Mutsumi's an interesting person, mystical is a better adjective I think. If you have the slightest bit of Japanese linguistic knowledge, you will notice that she is the first to speak katakana in the medieval time period (this occured at the end of episode 24. And no, this wasn't a pronoun). This is the big clue to finding out when Utawarerumono takes place. We definately hear a ton of katakana being used in the vision, and the high-tech look of the facility suggests the future. But Mutsumi using katakana kind of throws in the possibility that this medieval setting IS the future, not the past (unless you think Mutsumi can time travel). You'd have to be pretty keen to catch this element.

Very impressive, Renegade, catching that symbolism of self-appointed daughter vs. self-appointed daughter (though Aruruu probably had no idea what constitutes a father in episode 2 = o ).

------------------

So now most of the secrets have been explained to us and to our protagonists, courtesy of Dii. The only secrets that really remain are the ones that were introduced in this episode. The medallion on Eruruu's hair serves its purpose, but why? What are these viscous pools of goo attacking our heroes? How will Iceman and Mikoto's affair lead to the present situation? How did Dii obtain the power of Witsuarumetia to begin with (was probably explained and I missed it lol). Did Eruruu see Iceman and Mikoto in Hakuoro's vision (and if she did, more questions galore)?

All I can say is that the series finale has a lot of big shoes to fill, and I don't know how much they'll get into. We'll probably be forced to accept the fact that some things we'll never know!

Presentation-wise, it's good. I can't complain about the pacing of the episode. The animation was good (a couple of reused shots but whatever), the CG (god, the doors. The goddamn doors! People need to learn to do it right!) was sub-par. It's not perfect, but it's nothing I'd have to twist my stomach around to watch.

Story delivery was where this episode shined. We saw almost everybody trying to cope with the situation brought on by the previous episode, nobody was out of character, people had their "defining moments" for lack of a better word. I was thoroughly entertained, sufficiently creaped out, and empathized with the characters when the time came.

Episode 25 is botched. Totally botched, but it's a botch that works for the emphasis of on-screen drama. Though I don't like having so many new questions being brought out this close to the end of the series. And I'll admit, I had some preconceptions as to what was going to happen and was disappointed when those expectations didn't arrise (sounds like everyone else here!). But I'll be generous with 25, and we'll see how good the producers resolve things in 26.

9/10

Spoiler for dang it!:

The odds of a love relationship between Hakuoro and Eruruu has plummeted to 0 chance. There's just not time to go through with it. I'm a little disappointed, but this isn't a hardcore love story as Escaflowne was (the closest Utawarerumono ever got to realizing this was episode 23). There are aspects of romance that is missing here, and as much as I wish it would happen, it's not going to. Oh well, I'll keep dreaming!

So the truth is out. The mimimum amount of things that are going to happen in episode 26 will be a few more flashbacks, fighting, and maybe some chatter. How much time we spend on these (and more) will determine the nature of the ending - whether it will be a sad one or a happy/hopeful one. Probably the latter - because fans want it, and I can only stand watching two gods punching each other in the face for so long.

And where the heck is Mutsumi's halo!? Way to stray from the opening of the series, fools.

Ok, so how did the medallion work?

[KiNA]

There's a lot of thread necromancers nowadays =.=