AnimeSuki Forums

Goty · 2013-08-18, 22:11

Loved Kuchiki doing the Okama Way. Very fitting, he's kind of an ambiguous guy himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordblazer

They're still going on about Hato.. to be honest this doesn't spell well for this series if they're this far in and they haven't really developed the story yet and are relying on that old CD & BL gag.

Genshiken isn't really about story, but relationships. However, Hato being the center of all things is starting to bore me too. At least Yajima and Yoshitake keep delivering. I find them far more interesting, realistic and layered new characters.

jeroz · 2013-08-18, 23:49

self hypnosis, fun memories.

shalala · 2013-08-19, 11:47

I too am starting to get bored with Hato being the centre of the ep. Even the opening is pretty much Hato. Kuchiki ends up saving the day for Hato. I would like more Yajima and Yoshitake eps.

As for the references I saw Tantei Opera Milky Holmes, Salor moon? I think, Neon Genesis Evangelion and Senki Zesshou Symphogear. Can't remember the rest.

GDiddy · 2013-08-19, 14:51

Count me in on the "Hato is getting Boring' train.

Hato is getting to be seriously Mary Sueish now. More Yajima/Rika please

Echoes · 2013-08-19, 15:18

I, for one, am definitely not getting bored with Hato.

He's got me wrapped around his little finger, and may lead me wherever he wishes. He's interesting, fun, and adorable. Probably the most moe I've been for a male character that I can ever recall.

That being said, I am incredibly impressed with how much I like and appreciate each and every character in the show. I didn't start out loving everyone, but they've all grown on me, and even the ones I initially liked, I like even more at this point. Which to me is the hallmark of a great series. The more I learn about the characters, and the more time I spend with them, the more I like them. I think that's a sign of great character writing; there's more to learn about them and they feel real.
They are, for lack of a better term, three dimensional characters.

HandofFate · 2013-08-19, 15:48

I only really enjoy Hato when Madarame is involved, just by 'herself' I don't really care that much.

Really enjoy the dynamic that Yajime and Yoshitake bring to the table. They way more involved and have more to their personality that the old cast of secondary characters of the genshiken that never did anything like Kurapii(?) and the one Saki is dating.

Dop · 2013-08-19, 15:51

Oh come on, calling Hato a 'mary sue' is using the term in a completely different way to which it was coined. That's just ridiculous.

I suspect the prevalence of Hato in the opening sequence is setting Hato up to be for the new generation what Sasahara was to the old - the newbie who finds their calling.

All the new characters are good in their own way, and the more we find out about them the better, but I find Hato's dual nature makes their character very interesting. The thing about Hato's experiences at high school could lead to further, and I do suspect she may turn out to be transgendered.

I do think the way Crunchy's subs use pronouns where Hato is concerned is very well done.

I agree with Echoes that the characters are very well written.

At this point I don't even mind the casting changes.

Tenzen12 · 2013-08-20, 10:12

I don't realy care about Hato. Yeah I would be happier if instead of him get more focus Madarame (but that would actualy hurt narative as he graduated) or Sue (which probably wouldn't work either).

I am willing bear with him, though I don't think he is particulary interesting character.

Kaoru Chujo · 2013-08-20, 14:11

The thing about Hato is that he is not dealing with cross-dressing or BL as a gag, but as something real to him. He's complicated and interesting, for me. As well as cute.

But I like the other characters too -- except for Kuchiki, and even he is becoming bearable. I'd love to see more of the characters who have not had so much emphasis so far.

Overall, I'm finding this a highly enjoyable show.

cyth · 2013-08-20, 16:14

Yeah, Hato is one of the most complex, if not the most complex character from any anime I have watched, ever. Some anime just give you a few facts about a character and make twists and turns along the series' run to confirm what you already suspected of them in the beginning. Conventionally, we accept characters as complex if the format of storytelling fits whatever they wish to reveal about them (perfect example of this is Uchouten Kazoku), but in reality they're not nearly as complex as we think. We just say that because we understand that anime isn't real, so we compliment the artisans for coming close to our reality. With Hato, there is no time to take twists and turns, they proudly displays his every intricacy, which makes him feel like an actual real person. I'm not even joking. Parts of our personalities can be so complex that we usually don't have sound, logical explainations for them (for example, Hato being interested in BL even though he's admittedly a straight guy). In this sense, Hato is the most relatable fictional character ever devised. I'm not bored of him, but it is true he's hogging all screen time on the expense of other characters.

Goty · 2013-08-20, 16:52

^The problem is that every new layer they add to Hato character, it just makes him more unrealistic and cartoonish instead of complex, different from all other Genshiken characters, the developed ones at least. Come on. The floating girl persona following him around and talking inside his head, the "crossdressing switch" that changes his drawing without Hato himself realizing, like he has no control over it whatsoever, using his girl voice even when he's sleeping. Adding tons of different quirks isn't automatically making a character deep and complex. Are there people like that? Guess so, but he probably wouldn't be hanging out at a club, if he were a real person he wouldn't be nothing short of a schizophrenic in need of serious help.

And then there's the fact he can be a better girl than the actual girls to the point of making them jealous, that he does better art than everyone else, he rocks every male or female cosplay they give him etc, if he beats everyone at everyone's games it's no wonder people start to calling him a Mary Sue.

jeroz · 2013-08-20, 19:44

Considering that Hato loves cross dressing due to it puts him in the zone, the switch in art level is actually quite relatable. So many times I tried to draw and failed hard because I couldn't find that zone. Hato achieved it by cross dressing, and that amount of focus and passion could explain his capability in that form.

As for the stand, it's not to the point of needing support. He's handling it just fine as it is. Also you are combining two aspects together. If he has the complexion of a model, of course his cosplay would be awesome

TurkeyPotPie · 2013-08-21, 23:06

My big complaint about Hato is the focus on him robs the other characters of development time. I'd really like to see more of Yajima and Yabusaki for example.

maximilianjenus · 2013-08-22, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goty

^The problem is that every new layer they add to Hato character, it just makes him more unrealistic and cartoonish instead of complex, different from all other Genshiken characters, the developed ones at least. Come on. The floating girl persona following him around and talking inside his head, the "crossdressing switch" that changes his drawing without Hato himself realizing, like he has no control over it whatsoever, using his girl voice even when he's sleeping. Adding tons of different quirks isn't automatically making a character deep and complex. Are there people like that? Guess so, but he probably wouldn't be hanging out at a club, if he were a real person he wouldn't be nothing short of a schizophrenic in need of serious help.

And then there's the fact he can be a better girl than the actual girls to the point of making them jealous, that he does better art than everyone else, he rocks every male or female cosplay they give him etc, if he beats everyone at everyone's games it's no wonder people start to calling him a Mary Sue.

kousaka is/was worse , even hato admits that kousaka is a better crossdresser than him, as kousaka does not even need to wear make up. Everythign that hato does by trying hard, kousaka does withotu effort.

Utsuro no Hako · 2013-08-22, 09:30

Yeah, but Kousaka only exists to make Madarame look more sad and pathetic. He was never a focus of the story the way Hato's been.

Jan-Poo · 2013-08-22, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Yeah, but Kousaka only exists to make Madarame look more sad and pathetic. He was never a focus of the story the way Hato's been.

It's not completely true, Kousaka turned out to be that only in later episodes, originally he was meant to represent the polar opposite of what people commonly think about Otaku.

He is handsome and has a perfectly proportioned body
He has a girlfriend
He is confident
He never acts like a pervert
He never loses to his excitement when dealing with his hobbies
He is an overachiever

Though it's true that he never was at the center of the story unlike Hato.

Dop · 2013-08-24, 17:58

Spoiler for Episode 8:

NoemiChan · 2013-08-25, 02:58

The is not about fujoshi's.... it's yaoi!!!!1 Hato-kun.. please... be a girl damn it!!!!!!

shalala · 2013-08-25, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dop

Spoiler for Episode 8:

I agree. We saw some of it a few eps back as well as the comkit. I guess that what work does to you. I do hope this season also touches upon the effects of job sreaching like the 2nd season did.

HandofFate · 2013-08-25, 16:11

hm, I feel Hato went a bit too full girl/fujo in the room with Madarame, and it went a bit long.

Enjoyed Madarame's development as he's transitioned to just a college otaku to a working otaku.

I liked the throwback to the VN style choices for Madarame since I believe he mentioned using that type of vision method in S1 in conversations.

2013-08-18, 23:49	Link #262
jeroz Art Block Specialist Join Date: Jun 2007	self hypnosis, fun memories. __________________ [TAC]

2013-08-19, 14:51	Link #264
GDiddy Sisterhood of the Desu Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: in a van by the river	Count me in on the "Hato is getting Boring' train. Hato is getting to be seriously Mary Sueish now. More Yajima/Rika please __________________

2013-08-19, 15:18	Link #265
Echoes Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: In line to confess his sins. Age: 36	I, for one, am definitely not getting bored with Hato. He's got me wrapped around his little finger, and may lead me wherever he wishes. He's interesting, fun, and adorable. Probably the most moe I've been for a male character that I can ever recall. That being said, I am incredibly impressed with how much I like and appreciate each and every character in the show. I didn't start out loving everyone, but they've all grown on me, and even the ones I initially liked, I like even more at this point. Which to me is the hallmark of a great series. The more I learn about the characters, and the more time I spend with them, the more I like them. I think that's a sign of great character writing; there's more to learn about them and they feel real. They are, for lack of a better term, three dimensional characters. __________________ MyAnimeList Reviews and stuff

2013-08-20, 14:11	Link #269
Kaoru Chujo Yuuki Aoi Join Date: Jul 2004	The thing about Hato is that he is not dealing with cross-dressing or BL as a gag, but as something real to him. He's complicated and interesting, for me. As well as cute. But I like the other characters too -- except for Kuchiki, and even he is becoming bearable. I'd love to see more of the characters who have not had so much emphasis so far. Overall, I'm finding this a highly enjoyable show. __________________ YUUKI Aoi 悠木碧. b92.03.27 (age 29). 2008 Kurenai (Murasaki). 2009 Yumeiro Pâtissière (Ichigo), Kiruminzuu (Riko), Yutori-chan (Yutori-chan). 2010 Vampire Bund (Mina Tepeş), Shiki (Sunako), Samurai Girls (Juubee), Pokémon: Black and White (Iris). 2011 Madoka Magica (Madoka), Gosick (Victorique), A-Channel (Tooru). 2012 Symphogear (Hibiki). 2014 Pilot's Love Song (Claire/Nina), Nanatsu no Taizai (Diane). 2015 Owari no Seraph (Krul Tepes), Rokka no Yuusha (Fremy). 2016 Boku no Hero Academia (Tsuyu, Froppy). 2017 Kino no Tabi (Kino). 2021 Kumo desu ga (watashi), Kaizoku Oujo (Karin), Heike Monogatari (Biwa), etc., etc. Total of 513 roles in anime and games.

2013-08-20, 19:44	Link #272
jeroz Art Block Specialist Join Date: Jun 2007	Considering that Hato loves cross dressing due to it puts him in the zone, the switch in art level is actually quite relatable. So many times I tried to draw and failed hard because I couldn't find that zone. Hato achieved it by cross dressing, and that amount of focus and passion could explain his capability in that form. As for the stand, it's not to the point of needing support. He's handling it just fine as it is. Also you are combining two aspects together. If he has the complexion of a model, of course his cosplay would be awesome __________________ [TAC]

2013-08-19, 11:47	Link #263
shalala Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Under the 7 seas	I too am starting to get bored with Hato being the centre of the ep. Even the opening is pretty much Hato. Kuchiki ends up saving the day for Hato. I would like more Yajima and Yoshitake eps. As for the references I saw Tantei Opera Milky Holmes, Salor moon? I think, Neon Genesis Evangelion and Senki Zesshou Symphogear. Can't remember the rest.

2013-08-19, 15:48	Link #266
HandofFate Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006	I only really enjoy Hato when Madarame is involved, just by 'herself' I don't really care that much. Really enjoy the dynamic that Yajime and Yoshitake bring to the table. They way more involved and have more to their personality that the old cast of secondary characters of the genshiken that never did anything like Kurapii(?) and the one Saki is dating.

2013-08-19, 15:51	Link #267
Dop Mmmm.... Join Date: Sep 2006	Oh come on, calling Hato a 'mary sue' is using the term in a completely different way to which it was coined. That's just ridiculous. I suspect the prevalence of Hato in the opening sequence is setting Hato up to be for the new generation what Sasahara was to the old - the newbie who finds their calling. All the new characters are good in their own way, and the more we find out about them the better, but I find Hato's dual nature makes their character very interesting. The thing about Hato's experiences at high school could lead to further, and I do suspect she may turn out to be transgendered. I do think the way Crunchy's subs use pronouns where Hato is concerned is very well done. I agree with Echoes that the characters are very well written. At this point I don't even mind the casting changes.

2013-08-20, 10:12	Link #268
Tenzen12 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012	I don't realy care about Hato. Yeah I would be happier if instead of him get more focus Madarame (but that would actualy hurt narative as he graduated) or Sue (which probably wouldn't work either). I am willing bear with him, though I don't think he is particulary interesting character.

2013-08-20, 16:14	Link #270
cyth Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Age: 38	Yeah, Hato is one of the most complex, if not the most complex character from any anime I have watched, ever. Some anime just give you a few facts about a character and make twists and turns along the series' run to confirm what you already suspected of them in the beginning. Conventionally, we accept characters as complex if the format of storytelling fits whatever they wish to reveal about them (perfect example of this is Uchouten Kazoku), but in reality they're not nearly as complex as we think. We just say that because we understand that anime isn't real, so we compliment the artisans for coming close to our reality. With Hato, there is no time to take twists and turns, they proudly displays his every intricacy, which makes him feel like an actual real person. I'm not even joking. Parts of our personalities can be so complex that we usually don't have sound, logical explainations for them (for example, Hato being interested in BL even though he's admittedly a straight guy). In this sense, Hato is the most relatable fictional character ever devised. I'm not bored of him, but it is true he's hogging all screen time on the expense of other characters.

2013-08-20, 16:52	Link #271
Goty Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	^The problem is that every new layer they add to Hato character, it just makes him more unrealistic and cartoonish instead of complex, different from all other Genshiken characters, the developed ones at least. Come on. The floating girl persona following him around and talking inside his head, the "crossdressing switch" that changes his drawing without Hato himself realizing, like he has no control over it whatsoever, using his girl voice even when he's sleeping. Adding tons of different quirks isn't automatically making a character deep and complex. Are there people like that? Guess so, but he probably wouldn't be hanging out at a club, if he were a real person he wouldn't be nothing short of a schizophrenic in need of serious help. And then there's the fact he can be a better girl than the actual girls to the point of making them jealous, that he does better art than everyone else, he rocks every male or female cosplay they give him etc, if he beats everyone at everyone's games it's no wonder people start to calling him a Mary Sue.

2013-08-21, 23:06	Link #273
TurkeyPotPie fushigi ojisan Join Date: Jan 2011	My big complaint about Hato is the focus on him robs the other characters of development time. I'd really like to see more of Yajima and Yabusaki for example.

2013-08-22, 09:30	Link #275
Utsuro no Hako Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011	Yeah, but Kousaka only exists to make Madarame look more sad and pathetic. He was never a focus of the story the way Hato's been.

2013-08-24, 17:58	Link #277
Dop Mmmm.... Join Date: Sep 2006	Spoiler for Episode 8: One thing that's easy to overlook is the change in Madarame. We saw this in the first comifest episode where he remembered how enthusiastic he used to be about them but isn't as enthusiastic now. This episode we see him worrying about his job, and thinking that maybe he should look for another job, perhaps further away, because hanging around after graduation is a bit strange. It's interesting how you can see that he's not the same uber-otaku he appeared as in the original series, but now he's a working stiff he's changed. He still has the same interests, but has other priorities. He's really matured. That's really so true, and so well observed. I think so, at least.

2013-08-25, 02:58	Link #278
NoemiChan Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philippines Age: 36	The is not about fujoshi's.... it's yaoi!!!!1 Hato-kun.. please... be a girl damn it!!!!!!

2013-08-25, 16:11	Link #280
HandofFate Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006	hm, I feel Hato went a bit too full girl/fujo in the room with Madarame, and it went a bit long. Enjoyed Madarame's development as he's transitioned to just a college otaku to a working otaku. I liked the throwback to the VN style choices for Madarame since I believe he mentioned using that type of vision method in S1 in conversations.